Lord of the Rings?

[Justin2224]

Not sure if I posted this in the right place, but anyway....

Ok, so I was playing LOTRCon earlier, and while it was loading, I saw a LEGO Catalogue on my bed. I opened the catalogue randomly and I found the Castle page. To me it looks as though LEGO wanted to make a LOTR theme, but didnt get approval. The figs look alot like the characters in the trilogy( Troll Warriors look like Orcs, Giant Trolls look like Trolls, Knights look like Men of Gondor, Dwarves look like Dwarves, Dragon looks like the fell beast.) The sets also look somewhat like things from LOTR, namely the Tower Raid set looking like the Seige Towers and the Knight half of the set looking like part of Minas Tirith( I think), and the Dwarve Mine could represtent the Mines of Moria?

So, tell me if you have seen the connection.

[Dwarvenlord]

Well, there are some thing they have in common, but i can't remember the knights of Gondor to have blue armour, and the orcs to have a green skin. The big Trolls are also very different, and the Dwarves... well, besides of Gimli they didn't get a big role in Lotr so there isn't much to compare with . But i think you are right about the tower raid: they look very familiar with those from Lotr, except the height of course

[-JD-]

Yes, I thought so at the start. I made a moc from LOTR when Aragorn fights the Ringwraiths.

[hewkii9]

Seems to me more like they just had similiar fantasy elements. I think the time for a Tolkien-derivative line would actually be in a year or two, with the Hobbit.

[Sandy]

I don't think that the new Castle-theme resembles any more LotR than it does every other "high fantasy" novel out there. Dwarves, orcs, trolls, witches and elves were all present in LotR, but it wasn't the first or especially the last book to contain them.

So yeah, fantasy is fantasy.

[SWMAN]

I don't think there is a big connection either. The Castle theme is more generic and open, with themes that are generic and in almost any fantasy story. LOTR contains very detailed ideas and themes. Plus, the knights don't really look anything like Men in the LOTR, the only dwarf is Gimli, and there are no elves for the Castle line. Plus, there are no dumb magical skeletons in LOTR, and the orcs are a lot uglier and have totally different weapons than the trolls in the castle line. All in all, they are very different.

And the reason that Lego has not capitalized on the LOTR is the fact that they were not able to get the license. Hopefully once The Hobbit comes out, they can get that license as well as for the trilogy.

[Brickthing]

If TLG tried and didn't get permission for LoTR, then why would they go and do it anyway? They'd know better than to do that kind of stuff. No, Castle is just using typical fantasy elements and ideas, combined with the typical vehicles and structures of the "castle" era.

If TLG made a giant war elephant, a tall Troll observation eye tower or a battle on a abyss bridge with a dragon, then there might start to be some similarities.

[Skipper 24]

I think Castle is just fantasy as Sandy said. I can see where you are coming from but come on there are no killer skeletons in LOTR are there? I guess LEGO could make sets from the Hobbit when the new film comes out (there is one right?) but I doubt they will.

[Eskallon]

I would love lotr to be a theme and I agree that the sets can be related to the films and books in some ways. I however only think the sets with trolls and dwarfs in them are like lotr.

Tower raid- A siege tower and part of minas tirith

Dwarfs mine- moria

Dwarfs mine defender- A defender used in the attack of moria or the taking of the mountain in the Hobbit

Troll warship- the orcs travelled in ships to get to places

Troll assualt wagon- The orcs trvelled in different vehicles to get to their destinations. Normally wagons that couls store many troops in.

Troll battle wagon- Same reason as above but this wagons was for attacking not transporting.

As you can see these sets do relate to LOTR and also I think the soldiers do have a slight resemblance but then again many soldiers do.

It also happens that i saw this topic just after I had been looking at some stuff to do with LOTR lego.

If TLG tried and didn't get permission for LoTR, then why would they go and do it anyway?

Well that answer is simple Lego wanted to have the theme so they could make money out of it, they also knew that there fans would be interested in the idea.

[Sandy]

I don't think there is a big connection either. The Castle theme is more generic and open, with themes that are generic and in almost any fantasy story. LOTR contains very detailed ideas and themes. Plus, the knights don't really look anything like Men in the LOTR, the only dwarf is Gimli, and there are no elves for the Castle line. Plus, there are no dumb magical skeletons in LOTR, and the orcs are a lot uglier and have totally different weapons than the trolls in the castle line. All in all, they are very different.

Actually, there were several human factions in there with varying looks, Gimli wasn't the only dwarf in there by far, and there were "dumb magical skeletons" there as well - the ghostly ones that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli recruited for the final battle in Minas Tirith, remember? You should read the books as well.

As for the elves, its just a matter of time before they pop up in LEGO, as long as they continue with the fantasy theme.

[SWMAN]

Actually, there were several human factions in there with varying looks, Gimli wasn't the only dwarf in there by far, and there were "dumb magical skeletons" there as well - the ghostly ones that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli recruited for the final battle in Minas Tirith, remember? You should read the books as well.

As for the elves, its just a matter of time before they pop up in LEGO, as long as they continue with the fantasy theme.

I know that there are several human factions. The Lego castle knights do not look like Men of Gondor or Rohan or the men fighting for Sauron. What other dwarfs are there besides in the very beginning during the council to decide the fate of the ring? There were the ghost that Aragorn recruited, but A: the Lego skeleton's look nothing like them and B: the ghost were kind of dumb anyway. I agree that elves will appear some time, but as of right now there aren't any.

And Eskallon. I do agree that those sets can kind of be related, but the only set you mentioned there that would relate to what is seen in the films is the Tower Raid. We never see any Orc siege weapons or transports besides the Tower, and the ships in the movie are used by the Pirates, not the orcs. Plus, the Mines of Moria in the film are deserted and have no actual mining equipment. And I think that 3D Brickthing was trying to say that Lego can't make LOTR sets, so the Castle sets are not going to have many if any resemblance. Castle themes have been around a lot longer than the movies, which were what got most people interested. I don't think he was asking why they would want the theme.

Edited January 25, 2009 by SWMAN

[Dwarvenlord]

And Eskallon. I do agree that those sets can kind of be related, but the only set you mentioned there that would relate to what is seen in the films is the Tower Raid. We never see any Orc siege weapons or transports besides the Tower, and the ships in the movie are used by the Pirates, not the orcs. Plus, the Mines of Moria in the film are deserted and have no actual mining equipment. And I think that 3D Brickthing was trying to say that Lego can't make LOTR sets, so the Castle sets are not going to have many if any resemblance. Castle themes have been around a lot longer than the movies, which were what got most people interested. I don't think he was asking why they would want the theme.

Well, Moria isn't the only Dwarven city. There are more, like Erebor for example, wich plays a role in The Hobbit. Only because they weren't featured in the films doesn't mean TLC didn't have the chance to get some inspiration from them . But, hear me, i'm only responsing on the Dwarven-related posts

[SWMAN]

Well, Moria isn't the only Dwarven city. There are more, like Erebor for example, wich plays a role in The Hobbit. Only because they weren't featured in the films doesn't mean TLC didn't have the chance to get some inspiration from them . But, hear me, i'm only responsing on the Dwarven-related posts

I agree, but I think Lego would/will try to focus on the films, because that is what people know.

[Dwarvenlord]

I agree, but I think Lego would/will try to focus on the films, because that is what people know.

Good point. Sadly though, it proves once again how many people don't care of reading the books and only watch the films . Ah well, their lost

[Razzer]

Well, yeah there are some similarities, but they are also present in everything in the castle / fantasy genre. I think the place that we'll decide is when (if) Lego makes Elves, as they are represented in so many differant ways, Tolkien's elves being unique I think (at first anyway, there are many rip-offs).

Oh and please don't complain at me if my facts are wrong because I didn't research into this, feel free to correct me however ...

[hewkii9]

Tower raid- A siege tower and part of minas tirith

Dwarfs mine- moria

Dwarfs mine defender- A defender used in the attack of moria or the taking of the mountain in the Hobbit

Troll warship- the orcs travelled in ships to get to places

Troll assualt wagon- The orcs trvelled in different vehicles to get to their destinations. Normally wagons that couls store many troops in.

Troll battle wagon- Same reason as above but this wagons was for attacking not transporting.

As you can see these sets do relate to LOTR and also I think the soldiers do have a slight resemblance but then again many soldiers do.

It also happens that i saw this topic just after I had been looking at some stuff to do with LOTR lego.

The thing is, though, that these sets barely show any resemblance to what you describe. Tower Raid, sure, but Dwarves' Mine bears no resemblance to Moria apart from the fact that they are both implied to be mines and have dwarves and an entry door. Dwarf's Mine Defender, there's no mention anywhere of Dwarves using seige vehicles. Just like the Troll Assault Wagon and Battle Wheel [not to mention the fact that if there was a flipping giant wheel that crushed things in LoTR it would have even more appeal]. And orcs in LoTR never really did any seafaring either.

Well, Moria isn't the only Dwarven city. There are more, like Erebor for example, wich plays a role in The Hobbit.

Not to mention Belegost and Nogrond!

[Buckshot]

Here's a thought (and this is pure speculation): it's also possible that any similarities are not entirely intentional. For example, people (young ones, most likely) are first exposed to the movies. Those people are then involved in focus groups or test groups for new LEGO sets--they liked the movie, and the LEGO sets that remind them of the movies receive higher scores/play ratings, so those sets get put into production.

Just a theory. I remember thinking something similar with POTC and the <insert that tiresome argument> pirate sets.

[SWMAN]

Here's a thought (and this is pure speculation): it's also possible that any similarities are not entirely intentional. For example, people (young ones, most likely) are first exposed to the movies. Those people are then involved in focus groups or test groups for new LEGO sets--they liked the movie, and the LEGO sets that remind them of the movies receive higher scores/play ratings, so those sets get put into production.

Just a theory. I remember thinking something similar with POTC and the <insert that tiresome argument> pirate sets.

I think that Lego wants to play to the love of Fantasy of many people, and fantasy shares many similarities between every form of fantasy media. I don't think that Lego wanted to make a theme as close to the LOTR as they could, so I don't think that any of the similarities are intentional.

[Eskallon]

Dwarves' Mine bears no resemblance to Moria apart from the fact that they are both implied to be mines and have dwarves and an entry door.

I was actully talking about the days when moria was up and running before the goblins came.

[hewkii9]

I was actully talking about the days when moria was up and running before the goblins came.

Yeah, but those days don't appear in the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, so it makes little sense for TLC to make a set that evokes something only hardcore LoTR fans would instantly recognize. Like how there are no Children of Hurin-esque sets.

[Lockt]

@OP: If you think there are resembles with LOTR, then there are resembles. Thats the nice part about Lego; What you imagine is true!

If you would only have read the books, the resemblies are even more! Keep in mind most people only vision LOTR like Peter Jackson visioned it, which is very nice, but also very narrow.

And of course a lot points to LOTR, since LOTR was the mother of all fantasy.

Some random comments:

- Moria was active in the time between the Hobbit and the LOTR. In The Hobbit it is described how Balin leaves to Moria and also in LOTR it is pointed out that Gimli was also in Rivendel to see why the Dwarves didnt hear from Balin anymore. So if you like: Dwarves Mine is the scene where it got conquered. Like I said: If you like!

- In the first book is also a story of "Tom Bombadil" (forgive me I am not sure about the english name) and the undead kingdom. Skeletons can be based on that story.

[AhabDarab]

Hello everyone. I'm generaly just a lurker, but this thread made me feel like joining this forum.

I have noticed many similarities, however I feel they may come from a completly different direction. I do agree that Tolkien is the grandfather of this part of the fantasy world. As the Beatles have now inspired several generations of musical artists, I feel Tolkien has done the same. Gary Gygax (D&D, Advanced D&D, ect), Richard Garfield (Magic the gathering), Games Workshop (Warhammer, Warhammer 40K, ect), Warcraft and WoW, just to name a few that are old and new in the gaming industry alone.

Snow White's dwarves were miners. The dwarves from Narnia (inspired by Tolkien directly?) seem to be miners as well.

On a side note, I believe the green skinned people in the Lego Castle world are called trolls due to a legal reasons. I believe that the estate of Tolkien holds the rights to the spelling "orc", and Games Workshop holds the rights to the spelling "ork". I believe any one who uses either of these 2 spellings may have to pay a small royalty to the right holders. As far as I know, no entity holds any right on the term "troll". Trolls have been around in fairy tales for quite a long time, and are considered mythical monsters in some cultures as dragons or yeti might be.

I will say I did not research this, and may have made mistakes. Please feel free to have your own opinion, this only represents mine.

Ahab out...................................

Edited February 1, 2009 by AhabDarab

[Sandy]

I believe that the estate of Tolkien holds the rights to the spelling "orc", and Games Workshop holds the rights to the spelling "ork". I believe any one who uses either of these 2 spellings may have to pay a small royalty to the right holders. As far as I know, no entity holds any right on the term "troll".

I will say I did not research this, and may have made mistakes. Please feel have your own opinion, this only represents mine.

You just totally threw that out of your hat, didn't you?

Even a little amount of time spent on Wikipedia or some other source of information would've told you that the word "orc/ork" are under no such copyright protection. Wouldn't it be quite silly if it were, seeing how countless fantasy novels and movies and other products use that word?

As far as I can see, TLG used "troll" instead of "orc", because it's a Danish company and trolls have a long tradition here in Scandinavia (where as orcs belong to modern fantasy). I don't know the truth about the matter, obviously, but it might be as simple as that.

[posades]

Someone mentioned TLG should create a licensed 'The Hobbit' line when the movie releases--that would be a great idea! Perhaps if it takes off they might be inclined to produce some other sets from the series, which would be awesome. My only reservation is that TLG might not want to go along with it since to the casual observer the Castle and Hobbit lines may be too alike (which I guess might be true, but they could always do something different with the licensed sets such as fleshies, more use of a specific color like black or dark green, etc.)

[Algernon]

Castle is just taking a very appropriate turn to a "fantasy" theme. I don't think this is a problem at all and in fact I'm more interested in the sets than I've ever been. I really want an Elven theme, though.