42114 B+ model vs ZETROS? Dakar / Trial 4x4 Truck from VOLVO A60H

[rm8]

Hello.

This topic can be intersting for those, who want to know what can be done with 42114 set. Model has no real prototype. It is just a fantasy with VOLVO stickers!

This model was build from 1x cardan joint + 1x 42114 set.

The Goal was to built a truck with suspenison, 4x4 transmission and performace close to 42129 Zetros Truck.

 

 

pros:

- 3 motors in the set, that make possible to built model with the same performance as 42129.

- Portal hubs inside, enough gears and gearbox parts

- enough liftarms and panels

- new differentials

cons:

- no suspension arms, links, shock absorbers

- no gear racks

- only 1 cardan joint and 1 20-tooth gear

Set contain a lot of turn tables, so decicison comes fast. But for making model with all swiging axles, I need to stabilize at least on of them, or model will always lean one side. I used power of twisted axles to return model to the neutral position.

Suspension is done with torsion sway bars. For slow trial models fully suspended live axle and swinging live axle (like in JEEP 42122) on the go has no difference.

 

XL and L control+ motors are very close in RPM and Torque. I used L for rotating front axle, XL for rear.

Angled big c+ motor is used for turning steering wheels using liftarm as steering link. Steering system have akkerman system imitation.

Total gearing for each axle is 16:16 - 12:28 - 8:24. We can switch first gearing to 12:20 or 20:12 for faster speed or more torque. But it is amazing fact: 42114 has only one 20 tooth gear. One of the reasons is new differentials that use 12t gears.

Rear axle has manual differential lock.

first ideas was to create european type truck without nose using design of Arocs cabin. But at the end, my viewers motivate me (it was 3 episodes project) to build something new. So it the end model has long nose cabin and aerodynamic body behind the cab with removable part the transfrom dakar truck body to trial truck.

 

 

final result and some Trial tests here in episode 3. Video has goolge translated english subtitiles

 

detailes review of chassis with trosion suspenison in episode 2. Also this episode contains early body design vision)

Video has goolge translated english subtitiles

 

 

[Daniel-99]

Well done! Especially love the back of the car with a dynamical shapes! It is sad that the original set has L and XL motors instead of two XL motors... Different motors can not be directly connected in the transmission, and it limits the Trial capabilities of the car. 

[gyenesvi]

That's a really cool truck, I love the style, especially how the rear part can be detached, both forms look good! Nice idea for an alternate, even if it needs one extra U-joint. I like how the suspension is built, seems to work really well.

It's an interesting idea that the L and XL motors can be mixed in the drivetrain if they are not connected. Have you thought about connecting them through a differential with an adder mechanism?

[msk6003]

I like truck's cabin and bonet part. It looks like trial truck form of magic school bus.

[Scoar Sonander]

Any chance for a Studio/LDD file or instructions for this beast?

[thekoRngear]

Would love to see it on rebrickable as purchasable instructions

[whitepen]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:11 AM, Scoar Sonander said:

Any chance for a Studio/LDD file or instructions for this beast?

That would be great!

[rm8]

Thank you, yes - will do instruction. Right now busy with new sets reviews

[Scoar Sonander]

[rm8]

Hello

model is improved and finished. Codename "Zetros Killer"(they did not met in the octagon yet, but sooner or later...)

model was improved comparing to previous verison above in next directions

• longer wheelbase for better look and stability
• reinforced steering system with limiter (to pervent large wheels touching chassis).
• better modularity for best building and modding experience
• snorkel was removed - it was too fragile
• cooling radiator with fans was added in the back - hub was too hot🔥😁

 

The model is assembled from 1x cardan joint + LEGO Technic 42114 Volvo 6x6 A60h. Almost B model. Original set contain only 1x cardan joint, to build 4x4 I need 2 of them. So it can be true 42114 B model too, but it will be RWD.

• 2in1 model: DAKAR rally truck or light truck for Trial! Easy removable rear body part to drop down weight!
• 4x4 transmission with axle differentials. Front axle - L motor control +, rear axle - XL motor control +. The motors are NOT shaft connected to each other (like in 9398, 42099)
• Rear differential manual lock
• Steering system: Control+ large angle motor
• Suspension: long range swing axles with torsion bar system
• Transmission 16:16 - 12:28 - 8:24. 16:16 gear can be changed to 12:20 or 20:12 for more speed or torque. With 12-20 mod it can climb 50 degrees uphill (in trial body mode)
• Cabin and cargo platform - removable modules

Steering angle is the only thing I am not 100% satisied with. It is ok, but can be better.

 

 

 

Indoor trial test

 

 

Also I use alternative APP for LEGO control+, (Buwizz, Sbrick) control 

One more detailed video review on my native language 

More model photos here

model instruction at https://clck.ru/hibGq OR https://reb.li/m/113177

 

[thekoRngear]

Looks and feels so great! Sturdiness is def top notch. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by thekoRngear

[rm8]

Before you blaim me "it is NOT alternative🤨"   I have a special video for you my friend😀

 

 

 

[gyenesvi]

That's a cool video :)))

Great to see that you made instructions for this, thanks! And it looks even cooler with the tractor tires!

[rm8]

17 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

That's a cool video :)))

Great to see that you made instructions for this, thanks! And it looks even cooler with the tractor tires!

thank you. Hope you will find something useful for your skills!

[gyenesvi]

So I found the time to build this and what a beast! It's huge, looks cool and rides really well. It's really powerful with the two PU motors (I am using it with a 9V Phondly battery prototype).

I like the suspension, especially the front one is a nice compact design in the limited space (during building I thought first that the front axle won't have a suspension because of the limited space, so it was a nice surprise). The chassis structure is also solid, and I like how the bodywork is completely separate and detachable. I especially like the cab build and the doors, they are nicely shaped  and open cleanly (love how the mirrors are kind of essential part of the structure). Also, the detachable rear section is really nice, when it's on, the dakar truck is huge, and when it's detached, the trial verision is a cool light-weight one. With the larger wheels, it's even more awesome!

The only thing I was not satisfied with is the steering geometry, because it is asymmetric. This is because it uses the angular motor's circular rotating mount, which is essentially like a short 2L arm (servo horn), which when turned left pushes the steering rack slightly less than 1 stud, but when turned right it pulls the steering rack slightly more than 1 stud (because of the linkage mounted on the left of the tie rod). Because of this and the limiters on the tie rod at 1 stud distance, on the left it does not reach its limit, so it does not steer left so well as to the right.

So I set out to try to improve it. The idea was to use a 3L servo horn. To achieve this, I flipped the motor upside down, moved it back one stud (it was easy to remove some structurally not important liftarms to make space for it), and used the 3L cam pieces available in the set as the servo horn instead of the circular mount on the motor itself. With the 3L servo horn, the motor does not have to turn 90 degrees, so its movement is more symmetric, and can reach its limit in both directions (also, the servo horn can be limited more naturally on the bottom). Furthermore, it gives a possibility to further increase the steering angle by removing some limiters from the tie rod. I was able to achieve 1,5 stud sideways movement of the tie rod, which results in about 45 degree steering angle, which the U-joits can still handle. Also, I have made some simple off-road tests, and even with the larger tires, the wheels don't get stuck in the chasiss or body (though they can get quite close). @rm8, if you are interested I can send you some images of my mod, I'd be curious what you think about it.

I'll perform some more off-road tests later, from the preliminary tests in the garden it has good balance between speed and torque to go through some rocks :) The drivetrain's simplicity and low friction really pays off here!

Edited June 11, 2022 by gyenesvi

[rm8]

2 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

So I found the time to build this and what a beast! It's huge, looks cool and rides really well. It's really powerful with the two PU motors (I am using it with a 9V Phondly battery prototype).

I like the suspension, especially the front one is a nice compact design in the limited space (during building I thought first that the front axle won't have a suspension because of the limited space, so it was a nice surprise). The chassis structure is also solid, and I like how the bodywork is completely separate and detachable. I especially like the cab build and the doors, they are nicely shaped  and open cleanly (love how the mirrors are kind of essential part of the structure). Also, the detachable rear section is really nice, when it's on, the dakar truck is huge, and when it's detached, the trial verision is a cool light-weight one. With the larger wheels, it's even more awesome!

The only thing I was not satisfied with is the steering geometry, because it is asymmetric. This is because it uses the angular motor's circular rotating mount, which is essentially like a short 2L arm (servo horn), which when turned left pushes the steering rack slightly less than 1 stud, but when turned right it pulls the steering rack slightly more than 1 stud (because of the linkage mounted on the left of the tie rod). Because of this and the limiters on the tie rod at 1 stud distance, on the left it does not reach its limit, so it does not steer left so well as to the right.

So I set out to try to improve it. The idea was to use a 3L servo horn. To achieve this, I flipped the motor upside down, moved it back one stud (it was easy to remove some structurally not important liftarms to make space for it), and used the 3L cam pieces available in the set as the servo horn instead of the circular mount on the motor itself. With the 3L servo horn, the motor does not have to turn 90 degrees, so its movement is more symmetric, and can reach its limit in both directions (also, the servo horn can be limited more naturally on the bottom). Furthermore, it gives a possibility to further increase the steering angle by removing some limiters from the tie rod. I was able to achieve 1,5 stud sideways movement of the tie rod, which results in about 45 degree steering angle, which the U-joits can still handle. Also, I have made some simple off-road tests, and even with the larger tires, the wheels don't get stuck in the chasiss or body (though they can get quite close). @rm8, if you are interested I can send you some images of my mod, I'd be curious what you think about it.

I'll perform some more off-road tests later, from the preliminary tests in the garden it has good balance between speed and torque to go through some rocks :) The drivetrain's simplicity and low friction really pays off here!

Thanks for idea. You are right, that’s the only issue of model. I thought about that. Making 3L steering arm make it steer wider angle, but steering strength will decrease. So I thinking about 2,5L arm using cams from set.

 

 

[gyenesvi]

33 minutes ago, rm8 said:

Thanks for idea. You are right, that’s the only issue of model. I thought about that. Making 3L steering arm make it steer wider angle, but steering strength will decrease. So I thinking about 2,5L arm using cams from set.

That's true that it becomes weaker, but I am not sure if that's an issue, because the large angular motor is very strong. Will be interesting to test, I will see if it's strong enough when I do more tests off-road. But the 2,5 arm is also a good idea, I thought about that too, but would need more modifications to make space for it while keeping the linkage geometry good.

[rm8]

@gyenesvi on my tests, steering  is little bit underpowered - sometimes car can be steered only the go (as on real cars without power steering ,we still have such old cars on the roads). The problem is big scrub radius because of bulky portal hubs. I can gear down steering shaft to increas torque. Unfrtunately, there is no more free gears  and free space to increase steering  torque. Also, adding pair of gears can ruin centering logic, i did not tested, but most likely it will happen.

Increasing steering arm's length to make steering angle wider is not good because of insufficeint torque. Better to rebuild steering system. If you are not limited by parts of one set, you can try use regular (not angular) motor with gear rack. This is the best technical decision.

One more moment - steering is better using Controlz app comparing to Brickcontroller2 (2 apps I usually use) I don't know the reason, but frist app's servo control is more resposive and quicker. Try both.

 

thank you for your detailed feedback.

 

p.s. may be you did not noticed that, but cab design was stolen from Markus Kossman and his Arocs. I've only adden a nose)

[gyenesvi]

3 hours ago, rm8 said:

@gyenesvi on my tests, steering  is little bit underpowered - sometimes car can be steered only the go (as on real cars without power steering ,we still have such old cars on the roads). The problem is big scrub radius because of bulky portal hubs.

Yes, indeed, that can happen because of the scrub radius, I did not test yet, will see soon.

3 hours ago, rm8 said:

I can gear down steering shaft to increas torque. Unfrtunately, there is no more free gears  and free space to increase steering  torque. Also, adding pair of gears can ruin centering logic, i did not tested, but most likely it will happen.

I have the same experience, if you add gears or joints (even the new ones), centering does not work well

3 hours ago, rm8 said:

Better to rebuild steering system. If you are not limited by parts of one set, you can try use regular (not angular) motor with gear rack. This is the best technical decision.

Again, agreed. But still, just for the technical part, the solution with the angular servo is interesting because it's not the good old one.

3 hours ago, rm8 said:

One more moment - steering is better using Controlz app comparing to Brickcontroller2 (2 apps I usually use) I don't know the reason, but frist app's servo control is more resposive and quicker. Try both.

I am planning to try Controlz. So far I only used the PU app, on which centering is just crap on my tablet, even the slider in the app cannot properly return to the center, only approximately..

3 hours ago, rm8 said:

p.s. may be you did not noticed that, but cab design was stolen from Markus Kossman and his Arocs. I've only adden a nose)

Oh, I did not realize that, I never built the Arocs..

[gyenesvi]

Hey, just a final remark before I dismantle this model, I had some time to go out and test it more thoroughly off-road.

On 6/11/2022 at 3:03 PM, rm8 said:

Making 3L steering arm make it steer wider angle, but steering strength will decrease. So I thinking about 2,5L arm using cams from set.

Indeed, the 3L steering arm was a bit too weak. However, I managed to rebuild it to 2,5L (using the set's parts only, with the cams on the steering motor, the motor itself moved backwards one stud as I wrote above and the steering arm on the wheel hubs also decreased by half stud) and that worked out better, had no problem manoeuvring. Actually the overall off-road performance was surprisingly good, it climbs well over rocks, it has plenty of ground clearance and articulation. With locked rear diff even good enough traction. I had fun with it :) Posted some photos on Rebrickable. Thanks!

[rm8]

14 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

Hey, just a final remark before I dismantle this model, I had some time to go out and test it more thoroughly off-road.

Indeed, the 3L steering arm was a bit too weak. However, I managed to rebuild it to 2,5L (using the set's parts only, with the cams on the steering motor, the motor itself moved backwards one stud as I wrote above and the steering arm on the wheel hubs also decreased by half stud) and that worked out better, had no problem manoeuvring. Actually the overall off-road performance was surprisingly good, it climbs well over rocks, it has plenty of ground clearance and articulation. With locked rear diff even good enough traction. I had fun with it :) Posted some photos on Rebrickable. Thanks!

Thank you Viktor for your feedback. I am not the final point of this model, so everyone can modify it and even make better.

Please share foto of improved steering system, if model is not dissasmebled yet.

[gyenesvi]

Haha, it is disassembled already, but I kind of foresaw this request and I made some photos of it during disassembly, hope it shows the key ideas :)

One more thing I remembered I wanted to note about the front axle. After some intensive driving, I noticed that the U-joints' end entering the portal hub did rub against the big O-hole of the hub and generated some plastic powder. I have not seen that occur before even during intensive driving, and the two parts are designed to be used exactly that way (the U-joint going into the O-hole), so I was wondering how the U-joints could rub the hole. I suspect that it may be because the other end of the U-joint's axle, the one that is coming from the diff, is not supported right next to the U-joint, but only 1 stud further inwards, so the U-joint has more room to wiggle a bit as it is driven, and that may result in the rubbing. Nothing serious though, just a good reason to try to brace every moving part as much as possible to minimize friction and wear. In this particular case however, I did not see an easy way of improving the bracing.

[rm8]

2 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Haha, it is disassembled already, but I kind of foresaw this request and I made some photos of it during disassembly, hope it shows the key ideas :)

One more thing I remembered I wanted to note about the front axle. After some intensive driving, I noticed that the U-joints' end entering the portal hub did rub against the big O-hole of the hub and generated some plastic powder. I have not seen that occur before even during intensive driving, and the two parts are designed to be used exactly that way (the U-joint going into the O-hole), so I was wondering how the U-joints could rub the hole. I suspect that it may be because the other end of the U-joint's axle, the one that is coming from the diff, is not supported right next to the U-joint, but only 1 stud further inwards, so the U-joint has more room to wiggle a bit as it is driven, and that may result in the rubbing. Nothing serious though, just a good reason to try to brace every moving part as much as possible to minimize friction and wear. In this particular case however, I did not see an easy way of improving the bracing.

 

here we come)

[gyenesvi]

Don't open that door!!! That's a deep rabbit hole :D Fortunately, I think it's not needed for most use cases..

[rm8]

4 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Don't open that door!!! That's a deep rabbit hole :D Fortunately, I think it's not needed for most use cases..

Buwizz 3.0:
- We don't have voltage mode anymore...welcome to the rabbit hole