Are the mosaics worth the money? ?

[JintaiZ]

LEGO Art has recently launched and fans seemed to have mixed feelings about it. Now a popular discussion is whether it's worth its price or not.

The PPP is as low as 0.04 per piece, which is really good. However, so many of them are just studs...

What are your thoughts? Comment below!

Edited October 4, 2020 by JintaiZ

[Jimalaya]

They are not good value as they are not real lego and don't do anything. They are not good value as they are small peices and not interesting to a real lego fan. They should not do more or they should make them cheaper so more people can buy them as they are a lot of money for a set.

[TeriXeri]

Price per part ratio might look good on paper sure, and the 16x16 4/3 high bricks with technic holes are useful as well for connecting large areas securely.

But the rest of the pieces have a low volume, considering you need 2304 pieces to cover the 48x48 area.

If you like the subject matter, and design / combination, then I think they are nice on display.

 

But as a parts pack it's highly debatable.

In perspective, Extra DOTS has 109 pieces for €3,99, but you don't get a base, or design to go with it, so ultimately would still end up costing over €100 (adding a 48x48 baseplate)

 

Going even further,  buying 2 of those 1500 piece Classic Boxes gives a lot more building value for a similar price, even if you get a lot of colors.

 or 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by TeriXeri

[JintaiZ]

57 minutes ago, Jimalaya said:

They are not good value as they are not real lego and don't do anything. They are not good value as they are small peices and not interesting to a real lego fan. They should not do more or they should make them cheaper so more people can buy them as they are a lot of money for a set.

Sad but true. The 1x1 studs could be found on bricklink for $0.01

[icm]

My preferred measure of value for money is no longer price per part, but price per gram using US RRP and total unopened box weight. Extraordinarily good value is under 5 cents per gram, extraordinarily bad value is over 8 cents per gram.  The mosaics are just over 7 cents per gram, so they're relatively bad value for money in terms of how much stuff you're getting.  Obviously the price per part ratio is great because of all the 1x1 plates or tiles.

[JintaiZ]

4 minutes ago, icm said:

My preferred measure of value for money is no longer price per part, but price per gram using US RRP and total unopened box weight. Extraordinarily good value is under 5 cents per gram, extraordinarily bad value is over 8 cents per gram.  The mosaics are just over 7 cents per gram, so they're relatively bad value for money in terms of how much stuff you're getting.  Obviously the price per part ratio is great because of all the 1x1 plates or tiles.

Then the 75252 Imperial Wallet Destroyer isn't bad value...

[TeriXeri]

By that measure Classic 1500 brick boxes of 2020 would end up at 3,5-3,8 Eurocents a gram in local retail price , and 4,33-4,65 Eurocent a piece, before discounts.

Edited September 24, 2020 by TeriXeri

[icm]

Going by weight the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon and 2019 UCS Imperial Star Destroyer are both pretty good value at about 6.0 and 5.6 cents per gram, respectively.

[ShaydDeGrai]

The PPP metric is really deceptive with these kits as the sets are overwhelmingly loaded with 1x1's which often sell for less than a penny each on the secondary market.  Granted there are some rarer colors, but even those can be had separately for less than 4 cents each on average.

I actually priced out what it would take to bricklink the Iron Man mosaic (even if I didn't already have most of what it would take to make it on hand).  I had to make a couple compromises as those new 16x16 technic base plates that @TeriXeri pointed out throw a bit of a spanner in the works.  In my brick link alternative I tried three work-arounds.  In one, I just used a 48x48 baseplate.  In another I used two layers of plates to create the field.  In the third I tried to mimic the official design as best I could by building an equivalent to the new part out of long Technic bricks, some regular bricks and some plates (which ended up 5/3 high but, hey, close enough for government work - trust me, I used to work for the government).

Anyway, in all three cases I was able to cost out the project for about HALF of the MSRP for the official release (not accounting for shipping in minimum order restrictions), so even a 20% discount over at Amazon would be a bit of a rip off in my mind. 

I don't know how TLG did the calculus for these sets (Maybe they are trying recoup the cost of the new Technic base brick and anticipate low production runs? Maybe they think of these as "Art" for adults and are trying to price accordingly?)  I like the finished products, but I can follow the design and build one from parts on hand for a fraction of what they are charging.  They didn't even need the new base brick (my technic - plate sandwich replacement part works just fine), I just don't get it.

 

[JintaiZ]

1 minute ago, TeriXeri said:

By that measure Classic 1500 brick boxes of 2020 would end up at 3,5-3,8 Eurocents a gram in local retail price.

So good value?

1 minute ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

The PPP metric is really deceptive with these kits as the sets are overwhelmingly loaded with 1x1's which often sell for less than a penny each on the secondary market.  Granted there are some rarer colors, but even those can be had separately for less than 4 cents each on average.

I actually priced out what it would take to bricklink the Iron Man mosaic (even if I didn't already have most of what it would take to make it on hand).  I had to make a couple compromises as those new 16x16 technic base plates that @TeriXeri pointed out throw a bit of a spanner in the works.  In my brick link alternative I tried three work-arounds.  In one, I just used a 48x48 baseplate.  In another I used two layers of plates to create the field.  In the third I tried to mimic the official design as best I could by building an equivalent to the new part out of long Technic bricks, some regular bricks and some plates (which ended up 5/3 high but, hey, close enough for government work - trust me, I used to work for the government).

Anyway, in all three cases I was able to cost out the project for about HALF of the MSRP for the official release (not accounting for shipping in minimum order restrictions), so even a 20% discount over at Amazon would be a bit of a rip off in my mind. 

I don't know how TLG did the calculus for these sets (Maybe they are trying recoup the cost of the new Technic base brick and anticipate low production runs? Maybe they think of these as "Art" for adults and are trying to price accordingly?)  I like the finished products, but I can follow the design and build one from parts on hand for a fraction of what they are charging.  They didn't even need the new base brick (my technic - plate sandwich replacement part works just fine), I just don't get it.

 

The part out value is the most important factor in my opinion. 10261 has a low part out value compared to its price too ($340)

[TeriXeri]

3 minutes ago, JintaiZ said:

So good value?

Compared to Imperial Star Destroyer™ (75252), yes, which is 8 cent a gram here.at €700 , even when it's 12.5 kilogram of LEGO.

Of course it all depends what people want to build with the parts, star destroyer obviously comes with a lot of grey parts for a build, it's all relative.

Edited September 24, 2020 by TeriXeri

[JintaiZ]

1 minute ago, TeriXeri said:

Compared to Imperial Star Destroyer™ (75252), yes, which is 8 cent a gram here.at €700 , even when it's 12.5 kilogram of LEGO.

You spelled the name wrong

It destroys wallets not planets...

In all seriousness, the Classic sets doesn't offer as interesting parts as many other sets though.

[TeriXeri]

Just now, JintaiZ said:

In all seriousness, the Classic sets doesn't offer as interesting parts as many other sets though.

That's true, it certainly lacks consistent colors, and only has a few of each type of part , so they don't really work for building large things.

Ultimately there's no real accurate value measure, but up to the buyer's goal/purposes with the parts/sets.

[JintaiZ]

3 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

That's true, it certainly lacks consistent colors, and only has a few of each type of part , so they don't really work for building large things.

Ultimately there's no real accurate value measure, but up to the buyer's goal/purposes with the parts/sets.

Part out value will show whether a set's worth it or not. For example 10272 has an excellent part value ($830).

Even better, I got it at $188

[ShaydDeGrai]

1 minute ago, icm said:

Going by weight the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon and 2019 UCS Imperial Star Destroyer are both pretty good value at about 6.0 and 5.6 cents per gram, respectively.

I like the general idea of a price per mass metric, but you need to be careful about which mass you're using for the calculation.  Some of those kits come with one or more massive instruction books and, if you're just going by the shipping weight on the box, you're skewing your results by a kilogram or more of paper and packaging.

Even in smaller sets, this can be an issue.  Look at some of the Architecture kits, the box and the instruction book outweigh the finished model.

Just now, JintaiZ said:

The part out value is the most important factor in my opinion. 10261 has a low part out value compared to its price too ($340)

I think mosaics are in this same boat.  Those new Technic base bricks @TeriXeri and I mentioned will likely get a good price on the secondary market, but studs and technic pins aren't worth fishing out of the dustbin when the vacuum cleaner sucks them up.

[JintaiZ]

6 minutes ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

I like the general idea of a price per mass metric, but you need to be careful about which mass you're using for the calculation.  Some of those kits come with one or more massive instruction books and, if you're just going by the shipping weight on the box, you're skewing your results by a kilogram or more of paper and packaging.

Even in smaller sets, this can be an issue.  Look at some of the Architecture kits, the box and the instruction book outweigh the finished model.

I think mosaics are in this same boat.  Those new Technic base bricks @TeriXeri and I mentioned will likely get a good price on the secondary market, but studs and technic pins aren't worth fishing out of the dustbin when the vacuum cleaner sucks them up.



But I don't think the rest of the pieces are worth $90

[icm]

Yeah, instructions and box weight can make price per gram unreliable too, since Bricklink doesn't list those weights for a lot of sets.  I think they're roughly proportional to total weight, but I haven't done any analysis because I don't know how to write a crawler to get the data from Bricklink automatically and it would be extremely tedious to get a large comprehensive sample by hand.

[JintaiZ]

3 minutes ago, icm said:

Yeah, instructions and box weight can make price per gram unreliable too, since Bricklink doesn't list those weights for a lot of sets.  I think they're roughly proportional to total weight, but I haven't done any analysis because I don't know how to write a crawler to get the data from Bricklink automatically and it would be extremely tedious to get a large comprehensive sample by hand.

Well... I know the premium box could make it worth a bit more than usual, but I still believe that $50 would be more reasonable...

[ShaydDeGrai]

21 minutes ago, icm said:

Yeah, instructions and box weight can make price per gram unreliable too, since Bricklink doesn't list those weights for a lot of sets.  I think they're roughly proportional to total weight, but I haven't done any analysis because I don't know how to write a crawler to get the data from Bricklink automatically and it would be extremely tedious to get a large comprehensive sample by hand.

This does make me think it might be an interesting exercise to weigh some of my finished models and compare them to the original shipping weight to see if a pattern emerges.  Or maybe weight the instruction books versus the piece count and see if the growth pattern in the size of the instruction book is linear or something more aggressive.  There will always be confounding factors (Creator buckets with little to no instructions, UCS sets with huge tombs that are collectors items in their own right, 3-in-1 models that have extra instructions for the same set of parts, Architecture models that have 20 pages of background info in six different languages before you even get to the build, etc.) but now I'm curious if there are any "rules of thumb" that would help make the price per mass metric more insightful.

Oh well, maybe one of these days I'll retire and have time to explore such things.

[MAB]

43 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

That's true, it certainly lacks consistent colors, and only has a few of each type of part , so they don't really work for building large things.

Ultimately there's no real accurate value measure, but up to the buyer's goal/purposes with the parts/sets.

Indeed. I really don't see the point of all these "is it worth it threads". It is completely subjective. If you enjoy building the set and enjoy displaying the set then it is going to be more valuable than one that is a boring build or an ugly piece or a set that has little play value. The more pieces (big or small), the longer the build process so if you enjoy the build process then that is a good thing. The larger the average piece size, the bigger the final display which may be important. If you like minifigures, then minifigures will be important to you. And that is without thinking about the set design or the subject. 4x Beatles mosaics are going to be better value to a Beatles fan than 4x Andy Warhol ones.

 

[JRBricks]

Seems to be a lot of threads lately on the forums about complaints on how expensive Lego is. Yes it can be pricy for some, but there are ranges of sets and prices to accommodate various ranges. Maybe it’s because there are more larger 18+ sets out or maybe Lego is producing some great stuff. 

 

As as for the mosaics, I love them. Bought 3 Siths and made the large Vader. Very fun to make and it’s a great display piece. 

[BPK2300]

I like them, and think they look great. At $120 a pop, though, they just don't fit in my budget at all. It might not be realistic but they would have to be significantly cheaper for me to actually buy one. And all the while I'd want to buy in sets of three in order to make the larger portraits. 

[JintaiZ]

15 minutes ago, JRBricks said:

Seems to be a lot of threads lately on the forums about complaints on how expensive Lego is. Yes it can be pricy for some, but there are ranges of sets and prices to accommodate various ranges. Maybe it’s because there are more larger 18+ sets out or maybe Lego is producing some great stuff. 

 

As as for the mosaics, I love them. Bought 3 Siths and made the large Vader. Very fun to make and it’s a great display piece. 

Me too. I can't help but admire the sets.

 

7 minutes ago, BPK2300 said:

I like them, and think they look great. At $120 a pop, though, they just don't fit in my budget at all. It might not be realistic but they would have to be significantly cheaper for me to actually buy one. And all the while I'd want to buy in sets of three in order to make the larger portraits. 

There are much better things to spend $120...

[ShaydDeGrai]

4 hours ago, JRBricks said:

Seems to be a lot of threads lately on the forums about complaints on how expensive Lego is. Yes it can be pricy for some, but there are ranges of sets and prices to accommodate various ranges. Maybe it’s because there are more larger 18+ sets out or maybe Lego is producing some great stuff. 

Well, speaking as a former kid of modest means (i.e. there were times when putting food on the table was an issue) who grew up with Lego envy, Lego has always been a luxury item, some people were just well enough off not to realize it.  Personally, I've come a long way and I reward myself by making Lego my vice of choice, but I still recognize its expensive and some sets have more intrinsic "value" than others.  As I think @MAB pointed out, that "value" really varies with the nature of the consumer.  Is it the subject matter? The build experience? The number or variety of parts? The play or display factor after you're done? The minifigs? Different people want different things and how much they are _willing_ to pay to get what they want versus what "the system" requires then to pay really defines "value."

If I'd be happy shelling out $400 for some awesome 18+ fantastic set and the MSRP is only $325, I'm already seeing it as a great value.  But if I look at a set and think "295 pieces, including two minifigs , I'd pay $30 for that" then I see the actual price tag is 33% more, I go from thinking "lego is expensive" to "that particular set is a rip off" (this, BTW was my reaction to the Cloud City Duel kit, lovely kit, iconic scene, not worth $40 bucks for what comes in the box).

I do (and always have) appreciate(d) that TLG tries to pad out its various themes with kits ranging from "free" GWP polybags to flagship models costing hundred of dollars.  This allows families from across the disposable income spectrum to get _something_ even if its just a small Creator kit when, under better circumstances, someone would like it to be a UCS Star Destroyer.  Spreading the line over a range of price points makes set ownership feasible and accessible, but it doesn't necessarily dictate "value" and I think, more so that any debate over price, that question of "value" and the very fact that that means different things to different people, is where many of these "is it worth it?" threads are coming from.  The question isn't really "is this set overpriced?" (of course it is, it's just a box of ABS and poly carb, a similar box raw materials from Megabox would only be half the price  ) it's more along the lines of  "What aspects of this set should I consider in assessing its 'value' to me?"  and "What is it about this set that you see as 'valuable' enough to justify this price (or not)?"

You bought three Siths and made the big Vader, I think that's awesome.  I bet it looks really cool.  I'm thinking about building one of those for myself.  But I think I'll just download instructions and build mine with parts on hand because a) I appreciate the design, but think the kit is overpriced,  and b) I'm lucky enough already own most of what the kit is offering in terms of parts (or at least have acceptable substitutes on hand) so, for me personally, it diminishes the "Is it worth it?" factor for me that same way I can look at my three unopened copies of the Batwing from the Lego Batman Movie, see an decent sale on Amazon for that same kit that others would jump at, and tell myself that even as raw parts I don't need another one of those.  

Price, quality and value are all separate things and, in many cases, mean different things to different people, but I think we can also learn from one another as we share and debate what each means to ourselves and, in the end, make more informed purchasing decisions as a result of having our assessments both affirmed and challenged.

[JintaiZ]

2 hours ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

Well, speaking as a former kid of modest means (i.e. there were times when putting food on the table was an issue) who grew up with Lego envy, Lego has always been a luxury item, some people were just well enough off not to realize it.  Personally, I've come a long way and I reward myself by making Lego my vice of choice, but I still recognize its expensive and some sets have more intrinsic "value" than others.  As I think @MAB pointed out, that "value" really varies with the nature of the consumer.  Is it the subject matter? The build experience? The number or variety of parts? The play or display factor after you're done? The minifigs? Different people want different things and how much they are _willing_ to pay to get what they want versus what "the system" requires then to pay really defines "value."

If I'd be happy shelling out $400 for some awesome 18+ fantastic set and the MSRP is only $325, I'm already seeing it as a great value.  But if I look at a set and think "295 pieces, including two minifigs , I'd pay $30 for that" then I see the actual price tag is 33% more, I go from thinking "lego is expensive" to "that particular set is a rip off" (this, BTW was my reaction to the Cloud City Duel kit, lovely kit, iconic scene, not worth $40 bucks for what comes in the box).

I do (and always have) appreciate(d) that TLG tries to pad out its various themes with kits ranging from "free" GWP polybags to flagship models costing hundred of dollars.  This allows families from across the disposable income spectrum to get _something_ even if its just a small Creator kit when, under better circumstances, someone would like it to be a UCS Star Destroyer.  Spreading the line over a range of price points makes set ownership feasible and accessible, but it doesn't necessarily dictate "value" and I think, more so that any debate over price, that question of "value" and the very fact that that means different things to different people, is where many of these "is it worth it?" threads are coming from.  The question isn't really "is this set overpriced?" (of course it is, it's just a box of ABS and poly carb, a similar box raw materials from Megabox would only be half the price  ) it's more along the lines of  "What aspects of this set should I consider in assessing its 'value' to me?"  and "What is it about this set that you see as 'valuable' enough to justify this price (or not)?"

You bought three Siths and made the big Vader, I think that's awesome.  I bet it looks really cool.  I'm thinking about building one of those for myself.  But I think I'll just download instructions and build mine with parts on hand because a) I appreciate the design, but think the kit is overpriced,  and b) I'm lucky enough already own most of what the kit is offering in terms of parts (or at least have acceptable substitutes on hand) so, for me personally, it diminishes the "Is it worth it?" factor for me that same way I can look at my three unopened copies of the Batwing from the Lego Batman Movie, see an decent sale on Amazon for that same kit that others would jump at, and tell myself that even as raw parts I don't need another one of those.  

Price, quality and value are all separate things and, in many cases, mean different things to different people, but I think we can also learn from one another as we share and debate what each means to ourselves and, in the end, make more informed purchasing decisions as a result of having our assessments both affirmed and challenged.

If you only need the Vader, I believe you could just buy the parts to build the Vader. There are about 1100 pieces leftover...