7725 - old train, new bricks

[ClassicTrains]

Six little mice

I feel almost sorry to use them as a brick source... 6 of them give me the 12 pieces of lamp holders, in "old red".

Edited October 29, 2014 by ClassicTrains

[Savvvas]

I really like this project, and love seeing how it comes together, but personally I would not have gone through with it. From experience, I can say that if you have patience and look hard enough, you can even get 12v trains in pristine condition, for cheap. When I bought 7740, it was dusted down and looked very dirty. But after wasching all of the bricks, it came out just like new. Comparing the bricks to new bricks, there is no difference. At all. And I've come across finds like these before, like my 7727. The thing about trains is that they're often only built once, and never taken apart.

But if you want the feeling of truly new bricks, I guess this is the way to do it. Can't wait to see this finished :)

I'd also like to add something concerning the texture of the roof slopes. It's the same case with many of my old trains, even though none of the parts have been replaced. Also with other slopes like 2x4 and 2x3. So I guess there's no way to avoid it.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Savvvas

[ClassicTrains]

But if you want the feeling of truly new bricks, I guess this is the way to do it. Can't wait to see this finished :)

I'd also like to add something concerning the texture of the roof slopes. It's the same case with many of my old trains, even though none of the parts have been replaced. Also with other slopes like 2x4 and 2x3. So I guess there's no way to avoid it.

Exactly this is what I'm looking for: to build at least one old train from brand new pieces, to know what it's like (or what it could have been like). :) I know it costs a lot to do it like I do, but stil it is nowhere like buying a MISB set (which I could not afford either, or even if I did collect money for a long time, one would just simply not open such a precious box I guess, but keep it sealed).

Texture stuff: good to know! I am a bit surprised about it, but at least I don't feel worry for this any more.

I can partially agree with what You wrote: for example, my 7722 was not expensive and most of the bricks are in very good condition, still they have some minor scratches. My 7715 on the other hand showed quite a lot of playwear and dirt, but after a thorough washing and applying new stickers, set looks 1000 times better. But the bricks I bought for 7725 so far are (mostly) scratchless indeed, and it feels terrific, even if the train is not put together yet!! I guess it will take maybe 2-4 months more to collect and finish this train, depending on my budget. Thank You for your compliments, I will give further updates.

[ClassicTrains]

Today I installed LDD and gave it a try. As I like this train a lot, I already plan making a Power Functions version too, later. Maybe I can find some incomplete set for that purpose, who knows. So I wanted to see, how all the huge PF elements fit into only one car of the train - I would not like to put the battery box into the center car if not necessary. So I just tried in LDD, how they fit together. Well, just... Even if using all the available space, there is only 1 stud gap left between battery box and IR receiver. I put the battery box connector to the back of the car, so maybe all the cables will have the chance to fit between and under the PF components. Will have to check in real. One more issue was that the battery box had to be raised by 2 plates, so that vertical pin of the PF motor does not interfere with it. But now I could see that cable connector that goes onto the battery box will simply not have enough space under the roof. Then I realised that if I use a 6x6 one-piece train roof element, then it will just provide the necessary space, so the connector should just fit in there. :)

One train being 100% pure, this second one will not have to. So I tried two color schemes, one being basically the original:

The other one differs some more, but I just find it more elegant (chassis is blueish gray, roof corners are oldgray too instead of red):

(I decided to use a totally simmetrical axis structure for all 3 cars, based on the motor's geometry, by using technic axles instead of normal PF axles; it will probably give more friction, but the whole train looks well balanced with this I guess.)

Which color scheme do You like better?

[detjensrobert]

Is there a way to make the roof bley? That would look good on opt. 2.

[ClassicTrains]

Is there a way to make the roof bley? That would look good on opt. 2.

Thanks for your comment! I've thought about that too, but 6x6 train roof element does not exist in bley. Without that, cable connector cannot fit under the roof. Actually I like old light grey better, having been a child in the '80ies, but buffer and wheel masks only exist in black and bley. Anyway, I think the two different colors do give it some nice feel.

[freestorm]

Very nice project !

I like your idea

For your PF Receiver, I think you cannot hide inside the train, you will not receive the IR signal.

But I'm not a PF expert, I'm a 12V fan

[peterab]

For your PF Receiver, I think you cannot hide inside the train, you will not receive the IR signal.

But I'm not a PF expert, I'm a 12V fan

It will work but only when you have line of sight through the door windows. It will make controlling the train harder but not impossible.

[Younge]

Today I installed LDD and gave it a try:

(I decided to use a totally simmetrical axis structure for all 3 cars, based on the motor's geometry, by using technic axles instead of normal PF axles; it will probably give more friction, but the whole train looks well balanced with this I guess.)

I love watching this project come to life. I am planning on building the same train based on parts from Bricklink - nowhere near to the lengths that you are going to (any type of red brick is good enough for me - as long as they are not overly scratched or discolored).

I was wondering if you could post the LDD files that you created above? I am very interested to see what you did with the axles.

Keep up the great work CT!!!!

[ClassicTrains]

I love watching this project come to life. I am planning on building the same train based on parts from Bricklink - nowhere near to the lengths that you are going to (any type of red brick is good enough for me - as long as they are not overly scratched or discolored).

I was wondering if you could post the LDD files that you created above? I am very interested to see what you did with the axles.

Keep up the great work CT!!!!

Thank You for the comments and compliments from all of You! Younge, of course I can send You the files, I will send them in some minutes! Please note that I have not found the 6x16 train base in LDD, so I put it together from bricks to give exactly the same shape - just ignore this, use the normal train base when building! I don't know yet if all the cables could fit in there like this, it is really overcrowded inside - I hope so. If not, then battery box will have to go into the middle car, but that would just ruin the look of the train so much! Anyway, it is very good to hear that You are planning to do this too, any pictures or updates about your project are welcome, I am/we are really curious!

About IR receiver: I was also wondering if it works behind the windscreen, thanks for your comments on this! I have seen others doing this too, and I will only use it in a small room - we will see, how it goes with reflection from the walls! It would be fine for the PF version if the roof could look mostly unchanged, without needing a hole for the receiver. But for me at least, this is only a future plan - first I'm up to completing the 12V train!

I am very interested to see what you did with the axles.

I forgot to react on this one: very simple actually, I use normal 1x2 technic bricks, technic axles and train wheels just like the ones which are used on the motor. It will have a bigger rolling resistance for sure, but at least You can be more faithful to original axle geometry, if You want to. 9V/PF axles are 3 studs wide, having the axle just in line with the center stud. 4,5V/12V axles were 2 studs wide, with the axle being halfway between two studs. With simple technic bricks You can imitate this, so wheels will not be shifted in any direction by half a stud, and the wheel mask that comes with PF motor will also fit under other cars too, which will make the look of the train symmetrical. I have also tried what it looks like without wheel masks (that being more similar to the original 12V look), not bad actually!

[Heppeng]

I did originally build my recoloured 7725 with technic axles, simply because I had loads of spare wheels and liked to use what I had. I did however put them on individual 2 long axles with the idea of reducing friction on corners - a solid axle forces both wheels to turn at the same speed and therefore one has to slip which increases drag. However it did end up being a bit rattly due to the play in my set up so I decided to get the authentic 12V ones after all.

[ClassicTrains]

I did originally build my recoloured 7725 with technic axles, simply because I had loads of spare wheels and liked to use what I had. I did however put them on individual 2 long axles with the idea of reducing friction on corners - a solid axle forces both wheels to turn at the same speed and therefore one has to slip which increases drag. However it did end up being a bit rattly due to the play in my set up so I decided to get the authentic 12V ones after all.

Hm, sounds interesting! However even "factory" PF axles have attached wheels, which also makes some resistance in turns. Those have much better bearings though, then with using technic axles. I will have to give it a try and see.

[ClassicTrains]

By the way, have You seen this on eBay?

http://www.ebay.at/i....l2649#viTabs_0

If I knew in advance that it will appear, I would have spared some money for this one for sure... As far as I can see, basically it was only the motor that was missing... Even sticker sheet was in very nice condition and 100% complete! Most of the parts still in sealed bags... I was very sad not to have enough money for that at the time when it ended!

Back to 7725: yesterday I purchased two sets from a local seller, for a very moderate price! I was really lucky to have someone in our city to sell a brand new 12V transformer (not a part of set 7725, but will be necessary of course), and he also had a supplementary set of red bricks which I just needed, from well before 2004 and unopened. Here are some pictures!

And here comes the transformer. Box was not sealed, but the thing has never been used, absolutely scratch-free, and I can not find any obvious decoloration as well! Opening the box was an experience hard to tell! Like a time-travel!

Parts of the handle still sealed in polybag:

And a brochure which apparently has never been folded out before I did it; pure beauty from 1981!!

Unbelievable!

[Heppeng]

Hm, sounds interesting! However even "factory" PF axles have attached wheels, which also makes some resistance in turns. Those have much better bearings though, then with using technic axles. I will have to give it a try and see.

I believe its only the earlier versions that are factory assembled, certainly now you assemble the wheels on the axles yourself before attaching them to the wheel holders. They are a snug fit, but I put a very little model railway oil* in the centre of the wheel before assembly, and this reduces the friction enough for the wheels to turn independently.

*model railway oil because I know it is plastic friendly, and very little because you really do not want oil getting where it shouldn't on a toy that relies on friction to hold it together!!

[ClassicTrains]

I believe its only the earlier versions that are factory assembled, certainly now you assemble the wheels on the axles yourself before attaching them to the wheel holders. They are a snug fit, but I put a very little model railway oil* in the centre of the wheel before assembly, and this reduces the friction enough for the wheels to turn independently.

*model railway oil because I know it is plastic friendly, and very little because you really do not want oil getting where it shouldn't on a toy that relies on friction to hold it together!!

Hm, never though about that yet! I will check my PF axles, as far as I can remember, these ones I did have to assemble myself indeed, when I bought 7938. I never noticed they can turn independently! Cool!

[Younge]

By the way, have You seen this on eBay?

http://www.ebay.at/i....l2649#viTabs_0

If I knew in advance that it will appear, I would have spared some money for this one for sure... As far as I can see, basically it was only the motor that was missing... Even sticker sheet was in very nice condition and 100% complete! Most of the parts still in sealed bags... I was very sad not to have enough money for that at the time when it ended!

Back to 7725: yesterday I purchased two sets from a local seller, for a very moderate price! I was really lucky to have someone in our city to sell a brand new 12V transformer (not a part of set 7725, but will be necessary of course), and he also had a supplementary set of red bricks which I just needed, from well before 2004 and unopened. Here are some pictures!

And here comes the transformer. Box was not sealed, but the thing has never been used, absolutely scratch-free, and I can not find any obvious decoloration as well! Opening the box was an experience hard to tell! Like a time-travel!

Unbelievable!

I think you need to start buying lottery tickets mate!!!

The amount of luck you have had finding these amazing bricks (and other parts) from another era is fantastic.

[ClassicTrains]

Hello Friends,

I have not disappeared, I just had a lot of work recently, so I did not have time to update the topic. Anyway, in the meantime almost everything arrived, that I need for the train. Almost all of the parts will be new, only a few bricks will be used - but I have made sure that all are the old red color - even the seats will be old yellow (yellow also differs considerably today than back in the '80-ies). Today is a special day however: the motor has just arrived! :) I have opened the sealed box a few minutes ago, it was something unbelievable again! Here You are, the old motor, just opened:

12V motor, arrived sealed

Beautiful!! The parts that are still missing are also ordered now, so it won't be long any more that I can start with building 7725. Some of my friends have also told me that they want to come over to be there and see how it turns real! :) So, back to the parts: the ones which will not be completely new are: 8 pieces of red 1x8 tiles and the 4 pieces of narrow red train window frames. These would have really been too expensive to get as new, so I had to make this compromise as for now. Later, maybe... :) I have not bought any instructions or box so far either, but later I will try to get them on Ebay with a complete set some time in the future.

@Savvvas: You have written earlier, that one can get old sets in very nice condition from the Bay or from BL, and bricks are sometimes almost as new. You are right, and next time I will try to get such sets whenever possible - I just wanted to have one of the old trains in a condition with really shiny, scratchless pieces, windows etc. Once in my life, to build one of my childhood dream trains as new. :) So this was rather an experiment: I tried to get all the old parts from sealed sets from before 2004 (considering color differences), and see if it is possible to build an old train completely as new, by collecting the pieces for a much lower price than buying a sealed 7725 (which would be impossible for me too). My conclusion is: collecting all the pieces was pricy even like this, but altogether it did cost about almost the third of what a sealed 7725 would have cost. And besides, now I will also have some old sets as bonus (I only exchange the old-red parts to new-red, for these other sets it is OK for me like that).

I wish You all a Happy New Year! :)

CT

[Younge]

Beautiful!! The parts that are still missing are also ordered now, so it won't be long any more that I can start with building 7725. Some of my friends have also told me that they want to come over to be there and see how it turns real! :) So, back to the parts: the ones which will not be completely new are: 8 pieces of red 1x8 tiles and the 4 pieces of narrow red train window frames. These would have really been too expensive to get as new, so I had to make this compromise as for now. Later, maybe... :) I have not bought any instructions or box so far either, but later I will try to get them on Ebay with a complete set some time in the future.

Great work yet again CT!!! Can't wait to see the finished product.

Out of curiosity, why can't you get the 1x8 red tiles as new?

[ClassicTrains]

Great work yet again CT!!! Can't wait to see the finished product.

Out of curiosity, why can't you get the 1x8 red tiles as new?

I did get 10 tiles when I started with the project, but later, as I learned that the color difference between old and new colors can make the whole train quite ugly (a friend of mine has built a 7820 mail van out of old and new bricks, and I can really confirm it is not nice to have both kinds of red at the same time), I have decided to get the red parts only from old bricks (before 2004). The only way to get these old-red tiles for sure is to buy some - relatively cheap - old sets as a brick source. But these kinds of tiles did not appear in many affordable sets; at last I have chosen 6567 for this purpose. But this little set also contains only 2 of them, while I need 10. So at last I did not buy 5 pieces of sealed 6567, but I bought them used, in nice condition, for much-much cheaper, from one seller who had more of them. :) (There was a supplementary set back then, which contained only old-red tiles, but since I have started with collecting pieces, I have not found any of these - neither used, nor sealed, so I had to look for something else.) For the other - common - old-red bricks it was easy to buy them sealed, because there were a lot of service packs (like one above here) that You can get unopened, still not expensive. I know it all sounds crazy, but I am doing this only once, so the train must be perfect, like out of the box. :))

[Younge]

Do you have an update on your train CT?

[ClassicTrains]

Hello Friends,

I wish You a Happy Easter before all! I know I haven't updated the topic for a while, but the project is not abandoned. In the last months I could not afford to get any more of the missing pieces, but today I can tell You that all the bricks for the train are here and waiting to be built!!! Yet, I cannot start it today: I promised two of my friends that they can be there too and we will build it together, so it will take some more weeks to finish (when all the three of us have time to gather for the build)... Anyway, till then here are the latest pictures

https://flic.kr/p/r3nLGz

https://flic.kr/p/rGAZXf

Windscreens, windows and the yellow seats are still in unopened polybags (windscreens and seats arrived with old service packs):

https://flic.kr/p/rZ73Tc

Either I forgot, how to insert pictures into a post, or something has happened here, but now I can only insert the links. You can see them anyway. I will update You with pictures when the build will finally take place.

[Younge]

Thanks for the update! Can't wait to see photos of the finished build!!

Super jealous of what you are doing here (I wish I had done something like this before I got married!!! ).

[ClassicTrains]

It looks like it will be this Sunday when the train will be assembled finally!! :) Everything is gathered, waiting for The '80-ies Day!

Except the transformer: funny, but I just cannot find it anywhere. After moving to our new home, most of the things are still in boxes all around, pretty messy... Finding something here is not as easy as I thought. Till Sunday I think I will find it somehow...

I just tried the 12V motor anyway with another (9V) transformer, just to see if the wheels are spinning, it works perfectly! :) So there can be no big problems during the build, hopefully. One of my friends is gonna come over to us too and he will take part in the building, we will take some pictures of course!

@Younge: I know what You mean Fortunately my girlfriend has no problems with my hobby, she has her own ones too, so there are no complaints at all if I play with Lego.

See You soon!

P.S.: I found the transformer too, at last... Everything is ready!!!

[Rail Co]

I'm curious to see the final thing I have been following this project for awhile! I am wondering how much you saved (or not with all the sealed items!). Cannot wait to see the thing built up maybe a video of a nice new motor getting it's first scratches on the contacts (meaning I would love to see it running).

Great Project!!!

-RailCo

[marook]

Guess I need to see if I still have all the pieces for mine!

Do you have a brick-piece list for the set? I saw the doors yesterday, and the rest should be there.. all but the motors.. :-/

Edited April 17, 2015 by marook