Concerned about the future of LEGO remote control options

[JLiu15]

Is it just me, or is anyone else also concerned about the future of remote control in LEGO?

When SBrick was introduced in the 2010s, it was revolutionary in that it allowed us to use Bluetooth to control our MOCs, instead of relying on the PF IR receivers that barely work in sunlight. However, the SBrick app is no longer on the App Store, and based on what I've heard it's been removed for quite some time. Thankfully I still have the app installed on my phone, but last time I used it I remember it always failed to fetch control profiles for a new MOC, which meant I had to use an existing profile on my device. I am planning on using BrickController2 if the SBrick app no longer works. However, I have heard that the creator of BrickController2 has also lost interest in his app, and it no longer works with BuWizz on their latest firmware. Speaking of which, my BuWizz 2.0 which I've had since late 2020 has been glitching since the latest firmware update which I discussed more in this topic, but it looks like BrickController2 won't be an option now.

Also, it's been 3 years since the last LEGO Control+ set with the Bluetooth hub and individual motors. All Control+ sets since then (Porsche, Lamborghini, etc) have been the integrated hub. With as much drawbacks as it had compared to PF (e.g. no stackable plugs), it at least allowed for some modularity instead of just building similar vehicles around an integrated hub. I fear that LEGO is planning on doing away with this system in the future, and once no more updates are provided (and as third party solutions like BrickController2 and SBrick/BuWizz lose interest), I'm afraid our SBrick, BuWizz, and Control+ hubs could all end up being expensive paperweights in the future, as @ritztoys put it. If that's the case, I might very well have to return to old-fashioned IR control for my MOCs in the future. 

[2GodBDGlory]

Yeah, it is a bit worrying how that is going. I can't say I'm personally concerned, since I don't mind using Chinese clone IR receivers (which actually work on 2.4 GHz, making them a pretty serious upgrade from original Lego ones), or their all-in-one battery/receiver options, some of which offer proportional control with a physical controller. I can understand if people aren't comfortable with those options, though, and it seems that original Lego/3rd party stuff could be going downhill. At least the Buwizz team seems to still be active, so even if BC2 stops working there, at least native app control should continue being maintained for now

[Kumbbl]

I have a fairly clear opinion about the whole electronics and remote-control issue with Lego: Lego has always been a toy, or rather a platform, that lasts for decades and that you could keep for your grandchildren. Old 8480 Space Shuttles still work wonderfully after 30 years, provided they were stored well. The cables can be re-crimped with a bit of skill and then they are as good as new. Power Functions based models anyway. Why? Because everything is based zero percent on software, pure hardware. As long as batteries exist, all of this will continue to work — even for my grandchildren — all the classic models from the old 90s classics (8480, 8868, etc.) up to the last cool PF-based ones like the 42030 Loader.

In contrast: everything (sic!) that somehow relies on software protocols — such as apps on some smartphone — has a very limited half-life. It is 100% impossible that any of this will still work in 30 years; very likely not even in 10 years anymore.

In many areas this is perfectly fine — but not for a toy platform like Lego.

To put it bluntly: I will carefully store all the top models from the Lego Technic era up to and including the end of Power Functions, and my grandchildren will be able to have wonderful times with them. Everything after that is, in my opinion, a complete misdevelopment, because it is phone- and app-based and therefore practically destined, from birth and by definition, for the medium-term trash bin. A waste of money.

And I’m not some nostalgic technophobe: cutting-edge AI and IT are part of my everyday work, both professionally and privately. But they have no place in high-quality toys.

Take it with a grain of salt — I deliberately exaggerated a bit to illustrate the core problem of the current Lego Technic development. Smartphones can also be good devices for children if used sensibly, but making this most short-lived technology a prerequisite for the playability of hardware toys is a complete misstep. That’s why, for me, Lego after Power Functions is dead.

ps.

 

As a successor to Power Functions, they could have developed Bluetooth-based components for all I care — but with a physical remote control, so that the required protocol would be permanently “baked into” the hardware components and the only requirement for them to function would be a power supply.

The dependency on updates and software platforms such as apps is the real problem.

Edited March 15 by Kumbbl

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Convert your Technic sets before it's too late!

 

[M_longer]

Motors? What motors? Here, take this 5k piece Pokemon set and put it on shelf!

There's no way that Control+ will be continued, all individual parts are discontinued, and last set with L motor uses dump hub from 42113.

 I hope that they will get back to physical controls, look at CaDa and see how it should be done.

 

[Jockos]

1 hour ago, M_longer said:

Motors? What motors? Here, take this 5k piece Pokemon set and put it on shelf!

There's no way that Control+ will be continued, all individual parts are discontinued, and last set with L motor uses dump hub from 42113.

 I hope that they will get back to physical controls, look at CaDa and see how it should be done.

 

Yes, nowadays Lego became a one-and-done experience... My only hope for this year is that the Tumbler Batmobile uses the all-in-one hub as the last example of C+ (as was the case with 42095 regarding PF), and TLG gets their things together and releases worthy electronics for the 50th anniversary, which could became the template for future expansions.

[Toastie]

@Kumbbl

I could not agree more with what you wrote.

There is only one thing, I like to add, particularly with regard to:

14 hours ago, Kumbbl said:

The dependency on updates and software platforms such as apps is the real problem.

... when you want to remotely control your cars, trucks, cranes, and what not.

There is another world of electronics that at least lives the thrives, as documented in the Technic forum: a) Programming PBricks (Cybermaster, RCX, Scout, Spybot, NXT, EV3, even CodePilot, MircoScouts ...) b) controlling sensor data providers/drivers for actuators = Interface A and B. They all work as of today. I am a DOS and Windows person, grew up with and lived through the whole shoo bang. They all work - operated from a Win11/64bit laptop. I know that MS sucks, but believe me, I am madly in love with them, as they (and some third party marvels) let me play, program, and control LEGO electronics.

But app wise, run on mobile devices, I am so with you. Third party is a matter of time anyway - as was and is TLG. The latter simply don't care at all. The former need to survive somehow. But: TCLogo from 1986 runs within DOSBox-X on Win11 like a charm. So does ControlLab for DOS (1993). So with regard to that section of hard/software, it is still amazing. 

I simply like to >program< robotic devices, being it stationary or autonomous. It still works. 

All the best and thank you very much for your comments, I really appreciate!
Thorsten   

 

[Stereo]

I don't know about 8480, but my 8479 has lost a motor to aging, never misused it, it just locked up while in storage.  I think I have 4/6 of that type of motor still running, though one is rougher than the others.  Really the problem is sealed components not meant to be repaired.  The 4.5V motors/wires are simple enough, everything after that, have fun with tiny plastic tabs and glue.  Even a well designed motor eventually needs brushes, lubrication, cleaning.

[evank]

Here I am carrying the torch for Interface A and those of who program Lego robotics on our Apple II, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, and IBM PC. Wireless connection problems? Only if you forgot to plug in the wires. :)

[BondemandClausen]

Regarding the Sbrick Issues as referred to in another topic, is now solved.

I have been in contact with the CEO from Sbrick, and he has fixed it, so that ypu now can access the Social.Brick, Designer and the profiles are now available in your app again.

[Jundis]

For PF there are many options (Sbrick, buwizz, ...), while even the original remotes still work.

A new system should at least be able to use PU-Motors (would be a shame if these become useless). Imho best possibility would bem If we can get a smaller version of a "dumb" battery box with rechargable Li-ion battery and a smart hub of the same size (5 x 7 x 3 studs would be neat). Ideally the software would be open source...

I don't think Lego would do it, but it would solve all problems.... but realistically we will have many more years of third party solutions I think.

 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

There's also a chance that TLG will just drop RC from Technic altogether outside the all-in-one car hub.

[TexasEngineer454]

3 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

There's also a chance that TLG will just drop RC from Technic altogether outside the all-in-one car hub.

I'd be willing to bet money that this will be the final step. I think the 42160 Audi was the last true PU RC vehicle? And that set is 2-3 years old now. 

 

[everybrickasculpture]

Lego is only interested in shelf queens and "high-tech" app powered monstrosities now.  I actually think the future for remote controlled Lego is very bright, with hobby-grade lego compatible RC components becoming more and more available, and cheap, decent quality chinese stuff proliferating.  I loved PF but the parts were all too expensive, and I don't mind using chinese parts here and there.

[M_longer]

12 hours ago, Jundis said:

Ideally the software would be open source...

2in1 HUB is locked.

[Toastie]

14 minutes ago, M_longer said:

2in1 HUB is locked

Uhm - is this some secret code? 

"2in1 HUB" could be 88009 ...but the "locked" bit leaves me clueless.

If so, the "4in1 HUB" (88012) and the Spikes, Primes, Peeks, and Pokes are also locked, right? As in "not open source"?

Best,
Thorsten 

[Repkovsky]

To clarify:

• all hubs can be controlled via Bluetooth, if you send them proper commands.
• control protocol (e.g. set speed to motor at port A, set hub LED to red, etc.) is known, fixed and documented here https://lego.github.io/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs/
• there are multiple libraries allowing to send these commands, e.g. https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup/ (JavaScript), https://github.com/corneliusmunz/legoino (Arduino), https://github.com/virantha/bricknil (Python) and others (btw. there is also library for controlling SBrick https://360fun.github.io/sbrick.js/)
• this means that even if Lego discontinues its Android app (which is not so probable anytime soon, since 2in1 hub is still controlled from there, and I guess Lego will use it for some time), there is still an option to create your own application and control PoweredUp devices, and possibly share it with others. I guess there are many such applications already, but maybe not popular and not universal enough, but it is a matter of time and needs.
• 2in1 hub (contrary to other hubs) is locked, such that you cannot upload your own program into it, as https://pybricks.com/ does. So it cannot be autonomous and will always depend on controlling it via Bluetooth and external app, which for many use cases is not really a limitation.

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, Repkovsky said:

To clarify

Got it!

Thank you very much and best wishes,
Thorsten

 

[Paul B Technic]

That is excellent information.

I personally don't do much with this side of the hobby but having more / better options for control would be a good thing.

[M_longer]

23 hours ago, Toastie said:

2in1 HUB" could be 88009 ...but the "locked" bit leaves me clueless.

I'm reffering to this HUB, which can't be controlled (or maybe something changed?) with something more than official Control+ app:

[Repkovsky]

9 hours ago, M_longer said:

I'm reffering to this HUB, which can't be controlled (or maybe something changed?) with something more than official Control+ app:
 

Yes, this the one I am talking about too. I checked it now and

• it does not use standard Lego Wireless Protocol (I was wrong about it)
• but the protocol is already known enough to control it with custom app, here is description https://github.com/DanieleBenedettelli/TechnicMoveHub

See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zeW6gNV7Jo

 

[COPERNICON]

i spend a long time finding the best official lego RC system and tbh, they suck all; PF is the easiest to use but to limited, PU is to limited and BLE sucks, 9v to rare and expensive

i recently started experimenting with genuine RC electronics with custom adapter cables to PF motors (and geekservo servo's) it is by far the best for advanced/capable RC creations, the absolute best might be a rc receiver to serial and connecting it to an arduino, to make a programmable custom "hub"

[m2fel]

Here are my thoughts on Lego remotes.

• PF was okayish for kids even though there was no proportional support
• Mindstorms was/is quite capable as remote but the documentation was poorish and the costs way to high
• App controlled remotes via Bluetooth are okayish but I really don't like the dependence on a smartphone where Apps can simply disappear or not supported by all devices - the LEGO Powered Up Technic Remote Control (88010) is a poor excuse for a remote (in my opinion)

Lego should be able to provide a simple physical remote which supports proportional use but for some reasons they prefere not to and are successful. Maybe I am not the target audience...

The community made some great stuff like python support or even better hardware like sbrick or buwizz. Which is niche but awesome :)

I have two questions.

• It is possible to run the powerd up stuff with a gamepad but does anyone know of a Bluetooth pistolgrip- remote (like the ones used for RC cars) which could be used instead of a gamepad? Searching online I could not find anything. Maybe there are instructions for DIY somewhere? I believe it would be really nice to drive a little Lego RC car like this :)
• Is it possible to use an NXT brick to send commands to powerd up? I managed to build a NXT remote to run a vehicle with a NXT brick but that is where my skills end...

 

[Repkovsky]

@m2fel I think answer boils down to the same thing - to control PoweredUp devices in the first place you need to use Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) transmitters. NXT uses old Bluetooth 2.x, so there is no way. If any Bluetooth pistolgrip remote uses BLE and it is programmable, you can program it to control PoweredUp.

[Toastie]

@m2fel and @Repkovsky,

ESP32s (I am using stone old Wroom Dev boards, they clock in well below €/$10) do speak both, BT2.0 and BLE (and more).

@Cornelius created LEGOINO (available on GitHub), which runs flawlessly on ESPs and connects to PowerUp hubs. I am not sure about BT2.0 software for the NXT though, but it could work in principle ^^

I am using ESP's for translation of diverse LEGO protocols (PF, RC, RCX, VL, and even Intertechno stuff ). But as said, I did not look at NXT's.

Best
Thorsten