ARTICLE: Classic Castle Towns

[WesternOutlaw]

Classic Castle Towns

What Ever Happened to the Town/Castle Combination?

Eurobricks Classic Town Article by TheBrickster

One of the most interesting aspects of Classic Town was that early Lego town concepts and designs, specifically those from the late 70s/early 80s, infused Classic Castle within the town theme. Classic Yellow Castle elements and Medieval half-timbered Tudor-style buildings were added to create a harmonious blend of town and castle. Take for example, 1592 Town Square released in 1980:

_{1592 Town Square}

This all-time classic combined a small Yellow Castle wall, Tudor-style building, Castle figs, a horse wagon, and a modern car. The blend works well giving the overall set a well-rounded mix of some beautiful elements.

Another set, 1589 Main Street, was a promotional UK set released in 1978. It included a great Tudor-style Post Office, adds a yellow castle wall, and a modern car:

_{1589 Main Street}

Even Lego Idea Books during this time seemed to add a few Medieval-style building to the mix. Take for example the cover of Idea Book 6000 released in 1980:

_{Idea Book 6000}

What a terrific building that must have been MOCed a few times "back-in-the-day".

The blend of Castle and Town provided an excellent way of combining two different themes to create old Medieval cities from European countries including but not limited to England, France, and Germany. I'm surprised that the sets pictured above did not include a bright red London phone booth that would have made a great addition to the scene.

But what became of Lego's interest to add "old-world" charm to their towns? Could Cafe Corner be considered a set that has a few "older" aspects about it? I'm not too sure in that I find Cafe Corner to be more along the line of a building from the 50s/60s with it's "Hotel sign" prominently running vertically along its front. The color combination and architecture is; however, outstanding and is definately not a modern city building.

_{10182 Cafe Corner}

Does the new Castle theme lend itself to infusion with modern City sets? With Lego's current arsenal of outstanding City sets, it would be interesting to see a merger; but one might wonder how these City sets would look next to even a grey castle wall or smaller Tudor-style building. If so, what sets/components of modern bley roadplate City might be combined with Crownies and Trolls? Are the two themes too different at this time to blend them successfully? The answer to this may unfortunately be yes, but never underestimate the creativity and resourcefulness of the Lego fan.

Share your thoughts on this subject.

[AgentRick]

I really like Tudor-style buildings. Wonder why I have never made one yet.

[Klaus-Dieter]

That's a very interesting and informing article, TheBrickster!

I voted for Outstanding since this article does 1. include very good information which is 2. really good compacted, 3. there are some very apposite pictures and 4. there are some very good (rhetorical) questions and "all the other stuff which belongs to a great appealing article" (you surely know what I mean ).

(Perhaps you could have mentioned the brilliant 10184 Town Plan and this engine shed some years ago since they inlcude some - even if not medieval - but historic buildings, too. But that's not fatal.)

And it gives a lot of material for argueing and complaining . And since I'm studiing German language and hitstory it's for me of course something very interesting (which you may see on my long comment, too - have a nice time with reading it ).

The blend of Castle and Town provided an excellent way of combining two different themes to create old Medieval cities from European countries including but not limited to England, France, and Germany. I'm surprised that the sets pictured above did not include a bright red London phone booth that would have made a great addition to the scene.

I totally agree with you, TheBrickster!

Although I regrettably don't own one single of these awesome sets I must say that this combination was great since in reality it's like that that there are not only very new and modern houses in cities . And with always only having the same architecture of houses the City theme gets somehow sometimes boring - or at least it's not very diversified .

But what became of Lego's interest to add "old-world" charm to their towns? Could Cafe Corner be considered a set that has a few "older" aspects about it? I'm not too sure in that I find Market Street to be more along the line of a building from the 50s/60s with it's "Hotel sign" prominently running vertically along its front. The color combination and architecture is; however, outstanding and is definately not a modern city building.

You already know my attitude towards all the CC styled buildings.

I really like their architecture - it's extremely detailed and great. But it's for me a seperate theme which has nothing to do with the regular City theme.

It's even not their for kids to play with these sets - but they are there for collecting for AFOLs which have a lot of money (which you can notice when you look at the lack of some for the City theme existential elements (like e. g. open back walls) and at the high price).

Does the new Castle theme lend itself to infusion with modern City sets? With Lego's current arsenal of outstanding City sets, it would be interesting to see a merger; but one might wonder how these City sets would look next to even a grey castle wall or smaller Tudor-style building. If so, what sets/components of modern bley roadplate City might be combined with Crownies and Trolls? Are the two themes too different at this time to blend them successfully? The answer to this may unfortunately be yes, but never underestimate the creativity and resourcefulness of the Lego fan.

I'm not so sure about this point.

I mean: Ok, their was some time about 2000 - the dark ages of City - where the sets very really only made for JFOLs. So TLG concentrated on big parts and playability.

But after having noticed that all these CC styled buildings sold well, TLG went - at least partly, but nevertheless - in a more classic direction which you can see at this year's awesome 10184 Town Plan . this set only includes historical buildings - not very old, but nevertheless about minimum a half century . And there was this nice engine shed some years ago which was built in historical style, too. So a return to one or some more historical buildings might in my opinion well be. Surely these sets will - at least now - stay Exclusives.

The point is that the possibilities for historical buildings in the City theme are limited:

Sicne this theme mainly should appear to JFOLs it has to be designed in that way that the building time isn't too long and the way how to put it together not too difficult. If there are many little parts (which are necessary for a good archtiecture of an old building) kids might perhaps get restive and loose the fun at putting the set together.

And since this theme mainly appears to kids it has even in the architecture appeal to kids. and the "kids of today" live in a world where more and more old buildings disappear and new functional buildings are built. Consequently TLG has to put their main focus on these buildings because otherwise kids perhaps might not identify a Lego building as in reality existent.

This is my explanation why TLG is releasing the City sets in that style which you mostly can see.

When you only talk about historical buildings in the context of medieval/castle buildings:

It's allowedly very difficult to find good ideas to combine medieval buildings with City elements of our current towns. You can see that when looking at Lego's past. There TLG really wnated to release such sets - but there were only few. Why? - Because linking the past with the present in the City theme is really difficult. What shall they include? For JFOLs museums and books shops are (regrettably) boring - and today much, much more than before 10 or 20 years.

In my opinion the best thing to connect these themes in order to release historical City set would be - like it was done in one of the sets in the past, too - to design a set with a little castle, a medieval procesion and a medieval building with a regular shop in it (an old bakery or an old restaurant would imo be great and make much sense). It then should be obvious that this set combines two totally different times in history by e. g. including some knights and a damsel of the castle for the procession - and on the other side a current baker/restaurant keeper and some viewers. And/Or putting a modern tractor/car in this set on which you can put a little castle tower on which then the damsel of the castle may stand and wave to the viewers. But - to be honest - that's regrettably the only promising set idea I can think of.

To come to an end, here my summary:

I really the combination of medieval buildings with current buildings in some - regrettably only very few - City sets very long ago. And I in general I really historical (not only medieval, but of course medieval, too) buildings in the City theme, too.

In my opinion all the Cafe Corner styled buildings are no alternative to those buildings because firstly they don't contain some existential elements of the City theme (like e. g. open back walls) and secondly they are - even as a result of that - too expensive.

TLG did a very good job in the nearer past with releasing more different themed City sets (meaning not always only fire, construction and police sets). Some historical buildings appeared now and then, too, like e. g. the 10188 Town Plan or the engine shed some years ago.

I personally think that it might well be that we'll see some more historical buildings in the City theme, too. But because of several reasons I mentioned above (main reason: What do JFOLs like?) I fear that some sort of "City-with-Castle-combined" City set regrettably isn't very realistic to await - and the other historical buildings supposably stay Exclusives, too. On the other hand you can never know what tLG is planing! Only think about this year's excellent Town Plan - I'd say that nobody would have awaited it in his/her dreams that a set like this will be released by TLG.

Klaus-Dieter

[WesternOutlaw]

KD: you make some excellent points and I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this subject.

And since this theme mainly appears to kids it has even in the architecture appeal to kids. and the "kids of today" live in a world where more and more old buildings disappear and new functional buildings are built. Consequently TLG has to put their main focus on these buildings because otherwise kids perhaps might not identify a Lego building as in reality existent.

Yes, even Playmobil has gotten away from "old-style" architecture and pursued modern building styles. It's funny, Playmobil fans would love to see a return of their Victorian sets as well as Medieval homes/buildings (like bakery and blacksmith shop to name a few). Even their last RC train is modern as opposed to an "Old-Timer" they had for years.

There TLG really wnated to release such sets - but there were only few. Why? - Because linking the past with the present in the City theme is really difficult. What shall they include? For JFOLs museums and books shops are (regrettably) boring - and today much, much more than before 10 or 20 years.

In my opinion the best thing to connect these themes in order to release historical City set would be - like it was done in one of the sets in the past, too - to design a set with a little castle, a medieval procesion and a medieval building with a regular shop in it (an old bakery or an old restaurant would imo be great and make much sense).

I was thinking of this question as I was writing the article. What town/city buildings could include "old world charm" yet be fun and exciting for today's children?

How about a magic shop with Harry Potter-style wands and accessories?

Or a building that might appear to be a Medieval bakery or other old-world store, yet actually be a spy shop for Lego Agents.

I like the idea of a Medieval museum with elements from the Castle theme (helmets, axes, swords, etc.).

or perhaps a "Treasure Trove" antique gift shop with a Tudor-style building?

These are just a few ideas, but I would love to see someone MOC a Classic Castle Town in the style of Lego.

[Norrington]

Good article, but the modern set you mentioned is CAFE CORNER, not MARKET STREET.

[Aliencat]

Awesome article. I enjoyed reading that and I agree with it completely. I loved these old combinations of town and castle in various classic sets, and I did try it with Café Corner and some more modern stuff: link

One small thing I have to address though, the picture of 10182 has "10182 Market Street" under it, the name of this set is "Café Corner", Market Street is set 10190 and is the blue one.

[WesternOutlaw]

but the modern set you mentioned is CAFE CORNER, not MARKET STREET.

One small thing I have to address though, the picture of 10182 has "10182 Market Street" under it, the name of this set is "Café Corner", Market Street is set 10190 and is the blue one.

Yes, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I had listed the set as Cafe Corner in the article and thought I had corrected the reference in the other two areas, but must have missed it. It's corrected now.

[Eilif]

Intresting post Brickster. I think it's you raise two very good topics worth discussing.

1) Castle/town combinations, where did they go, and are they viable for today?

2) Is LEGO moving in the direction of modern, or more classic architecture?

I offer this criticism to be helpfull, so with that in mind...

It is precisely because this article raises two very good distinct topics, that I rated it below average. A well written article should concentrate on one issue. It seems that in seeking to draw together enough information to comprise an "article" you over-reached the Castle/Town topic that you began with and extended it to draw in Cafe Corner which was not an effective counterpoint to earlier sets, as no one assumes that CC is medieval styled. Lastly I'm not entirely convinced that either question mentioned above is expansive enough to support an entire article. Some topics are better as points for discussion rather than "articles".

To conclude, regardless of my feelings about the "article" format, I congratulate you on raising two very good points for discussion, and I'll address them both below.

1) Castle/Town combinations worked much better in an early LEGO universe that was far simpler and less diverse, both in design, color scheme and piece selection. The first years of introduciton of the castle/town combo sets you show above were years in which the colors of castles were still yellow, and there were very few Castle sets. Castle would not be firmly established as a viable separate line with it's own "realistic" color scheme unitl 1984. Until '84, this castle/town comination worked fairly well, but after '84, these kind of combinations were no longer really viable.

It might not be stretching to assume that these early combinations were a way of trying to increase customer experience and awareness regarding new developing castle theme. As soon as Castle became it's own entity, LEGO stopped trying to combine them.

Today, LEGO seems to have purposely diferentiated between the lines, but as you say, AFOL's cn do anything. A quick search on briclink, will reveal numerous examples of medieval architecture combined very effectively with modern buildings, with most examples representing the real combinations of architectural styles found in Europe. With few exceptions however, the age of Castle and Town minifigs walking the streets together has ended.

2) As far as LEGO's current building styles I would say that it not so much that they have recaptured classic architecture, but rather that they have begun to recognize that there is a desire for more than the blocky toy-ish buildings of Town and City which are charming, but of little "architectural" value, and offer buildings like Market street, Cafe Corner, and Town Plan (perhaps as Klaus mentioned Engine Shed could fit in there also) that reflect buildings of the 20th century. None of these buildings, contain any architecture that is representative or deriviateve of anything earlier than very late 1800's.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Eilif

[Klaus-Dieter]

KD: you make some excellent points and I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this subject.

Thank you, TheBrickster!

I was thinking of this question as I was writing the article. What town/city buildings could include "old world charm" yet be fun and exciting for today's children?

How about a magic shop with Harry Potter-style wands and accessories?

Or a building that might appear to be a Medieval bakery or other old-world store, yet actually be a spy shop for Lego Agents.

I like the idea of a Medieval museum with elements from the Castle theme (helmets, axes, swords, etc.).

or perhaps a "Treasure Trove" antique gift shop with a Tudor-style building?

I think that a spy shop would be difficult since there had to be a lot of new molds for accessories.

But the magic shop and the antique gift shop are brilliant ideas!

These are just a few ideas, but I would love to see someone MOC a Classic Castle Town in the style of Lego.

Since you asked so friendly: Let's see. I've got still three weeks semester break (of course I've got to do a lot for university - two assignments - but there has to be some time for free, too ). So I don't want to make any pledges - but let's see (there are now even some new bricks available at factory).

Klaus-Dieter

Edited September 21, 2008 by Klaus-Dieter

[The Yellow Brick]

the only set we have been given lately is the medieval market. which look great in towns

[Rick]

the only set we have been given lately is the medieval market. which look great in towns

You've dug up a nearly two-year old topic, but perhaps for good reason. Has anyone here integrated MMV into a contemporary town setting? If so, pictures please...

[The Yellow Brick]

I have used the MMV in my city you can see it in my YT

[frogstudio]

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with colour schemes or playability. It simply has to do with the fact that TLC has grown into a much more international company. In the 70's and early 80's it still was mainly aimed at the european market (where is common to see the combo of medieval and modern building + knight processions, etc.) Nowadays, LEGO tries to reach more international markets, and thus, has to have a more "generic" approach towards architectural design and possible combinations. How would a kid in the States or Brazil understand today the comboa of a medieval building with a modern one. Most probably he's never seen such combo and would simply think that it's unrealistic. If you analize LEGO's current architectural style, it's rather generic, enabling kids anywhere in the world to feel that that LEGO building could actually be in their own town. So, as someone mentioned, I too think that the era of combining Castle and City is long gone (no matter how much I regrett it.) Just my two cents... Cheers to all!!!!