History thread

[Joey Lock]

I was thinkin about the Nazis. Do you think that if Hitler did not have his murderous views, would he be seen as such a bad guy to the world as he is today? I mean if he did not commit Genocide, then he would be just like any other military leader out there. Or do you think people would still hate him?

[mikey]

post cancelled

Edited October 2, 2009 by mikey

[Captain Green Hair]

I was thinkin about the Nazis. Do you think that if Hitler did not have his murderous views, would he be seen as such a bad guy to the world as he is today? I mean if he did not commit Genocide, then he would be just like any other military leader out there. Or do you think people would still hate him?

Maybe not as much as they do now, but he did...

A lot of other military leaders committed genocide though, but let's not get political here.

[Joey Lock]

Maybe not as much as they do now, but he did...

A lot of other military leaders committed genocide though, but let's not get political here.

Ineed. So what are your favourite historical themes Captain? Napleonic is first, obviously.

[Captain Green Hair]

Ineed. So what are your favourite historical themes Captain? Napleonic is first, obviously.

Actually some years before that, the Dutch golden age with WW2 as a good second.

[JCC1004]

I was thinkin about the Nazis. Do you think that if Hitler did not have his murderous views, would he be seen as such a bad guy to the world as he is today? I mean if he did not commit Genocide, then he would be just like any other military leader out there. Or do you think people would still hate him?

He wouldn't be seen as evil as he is now. The Holocaust has truly given him an evil reputation. He did more than commit Genocide. He wouldn't be considered just a millitary leader. He'd be seen slightly less evil.

[Shadows]

I was thinkin about the Nazis. Do you think that if Hitler did not have his murderous views, would he be seen as such a bad guy to the world as he is today? I mean if he did not commit Genocide, then he would be just like any other military leader out there. Or do you think people would still hate him?

Would a serial killer be disliked if he didn't actually kill anyone? Would a mad bomber be such a bad guy if he just didn't blow things up?

When you announce that you plan to take over the world and start bombing and invading places, you're generally disliked and with good reason. You don't see a lot of people marching around with "I <3 Stalin" signs either, and most of his terror was internal.

Plus, in the end, the victors always write the history, so the losers are always made out to be the ultimate evil. In the case of Hitler, it just wasn't too hard to do that.

[Zorbas]

Plus, in the end, the victors always write the history, so the losers are always made out to be the ultimate evil.

The only time that history was written by the defeated was during the siege and the fall of Constantinople. The good-evil side was the other way around.

Great, excellent topic btw.

[The Who]

"Wow, someone left a car here!"

"Does this belong to anyone? - No?"

"Wooopiee, I now own a car!!"

America

You would be suprised how often that happens around here. It's just old cars that have not been touched for years, not new ones.

"Wow, someone left a house here!"

"Hello, is anyone home and can I have this?"

"Hellooooo...."

Now I understand why you desperately need the right to bear arms

Just kidding, let's not get political because of this little friendly joke.

Hmm...I haven't seen too many cases of arguing over houses before. (Seroiusly. ) Almost everybody down (Over the age of 13) here owns at least one gun, too.

Just kidding. I think Booger was exaggerating a bit about that. I know it's not like that here in Canada.

Clearly you have not been through Eastern South Carolina, Land Of The Rednecks.

We can't just not talk about something because we fear offending people. If nobody ever mentions the events that take place, it's more likely to happen again, as Etzel said.

That's exactly right. If nobody ever talked about Hitler, and I yelled 'Hail Hitler!' out in public, would people do anything about it? No, because close to nobody would know who he was, if we never talked about him. (Hope that makes sense)

You don't see a lot of people marching around with "I <3 Stalin" signs either...

Stalin? Nah, not a fan. A lot of (High School aged) Southern Boys do somewhat like Nazis, though. Edited October 3, 2009 by booger540

[Dunjohn]

When I was in school, one of the guys in my class drew swatzikas on his German notebook. Not intending any harm; he just naturally associated that symbol with Germany and wanted to make his notebooks more personalized so he could tell them apart more easily. The teacher naturally flipped when he saw it....

As for the non-genocidal Hitler idea, I didn't study much Italian history so I don't remember if Mussolini had death camps. Did he? His reputation, while still marking his broadly as one of history's bad guys, is nowhere near as bad as Hitler's.

[mikey]

As for the non-genocidal Hitler idea, I didn't study much Italian history so I don't remember if Mussolini had death camps. Did he? His reputation, while still marking his broadly as one of history's bad guys, is nowhere near as bad as Hitler's.

I understand that whilst the Italian Fascist State was oppresive, and had a degree of Anti-Semetic law, it never engaged in policies of Ethnic Purification. After the fall of Mussolini in 1943, northern Italy was incorporated into the German Reich, and one death camp was established.

[Joey Lock]

I understand that whilst the Italian Fascist State was oppresive, and had a degree of Anti-Semetic law, it never engaged in policies of Ethnic Purification. After the fall of Mussolini in 1943, northern Italy was incorporated into the German Reich, and one death camp was established.

Well as Dunjohn was saying, the only real reason why Mussonlini was massacred by his own people was because he was too ambitious. He sent in all his men, the British took them prisoner. Then he got his country bombarded and invaded. And then taken over by Germany. So he was hated because of his incompetence.

So actually thinking about it, Hitler would still be hated quite a bit, just because he invaded everywhere. If it was like WWI, Just trench fighting, no one really taking many miles of land, then he would just be like the Kaiser.

[Topsy Cret]

I can say I've always been a fan of history. There is one thing that's been on my mind lately. Does anyone know what the operation name/title of the Nazi invasion of Norway was called? I really cannot remember. I know there was Case Yellow, Case White, Operation Sea Lion, Operation Barbarossa, etc. It's just that Norway just plain slipped my mind. Anyone?

[MetroiD]

Does anyone know what the operation name/title of the Nazi invasion of Norway was called?

Die Weserübung.

Hitler = pure evil. Which is why the world just can't forget him, or the desacrated sign he uses - I mean the Swastika... which surprisingly means "lucky object" in Sanskrit - did you know that? It was an ancient sign of goodness and prosperity... until the Fascists turned it into a few broken lines, the depiction of which is now forbidden on German soil.

WWII however did bring out the worst in men - and not only in the face of Adolf. There was Hiroshima, there was Pearl Harbour and the bombings all over Europe... And then there are also the vicious bombing of Dresden or Leipzig... Or my city - Sofia - for that matter - as Bulgaria had joined the Axis being given no other option with Hitler's troops at our norhern border. We didn't bomb anyone though... neither did our Tsar allow for Bulgarian jews be taken away to camps. Instead, a few months later, we joined the Allies and lost tens of thousands of soldiers who died to free Europe and the world of Fascism.

At the end of the day, it's not just Hitler who's evil. It's as if the whole world had gone mad during those years... But yeah, it does show that it only takes one deranged person to bring out the worst in us all...

[The Who]

Which is why the world just can't forget him, or the desacrated sign he uses - I mean the Swastika... which surprisingly means "lucky object" in Sanskrit - did you know that? It was an ancient sign of goodness and prosperity... until the Fascists turned it into a few broken lines, the depiction of which is now forbidden on German soil.

The Sankrit Swastika actually has the 'legs' (Can't think of a better name for them) of the Swastika pointing to the left, as the German version has the 'legs' pointing to the right. It's kind of hard to explain, but the direction the legs are facing makes the biggest difference in their meanings.

[MetroiD]

...the direction the legs are facing makes the biggest difference in their meanings.

That's what I said when I meant they were using a "desacrated" sign. Originally, this used to be a sign of something good, a talisman, which was adopted and tarnished forever. If they see an inverted swastika (or rather - svastika, as it is in Sanskrit), most people would think it was another kid who thinks being neofascist is cool and has no idea what he was actually drawing.

As a matter of fact, the swastika precisely as used by Hitler & co. is also a symbol used in Hinduism and Buddhism - its both sides (flipped and unflipped) are the forms of a Hindi god and it represents eternity for the buddhists. Ironic how that symbol was mocked by Adolf's ideology and is now hated in every corner of the world, isn't it?

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

The Sankrit Swastika actually has the 'legs' (Can't think of a better name for them) of the Swastika pointing to the left, as the German version has the 'legs' pointing to the right. It's kind of hard to explain, but the direction the legs are facing makes the biggest difference in their meanings.

The lest facing one is called a Sauwastika. Both were used in Sankrit.

[The Who]

The lest facing one is called a Sauwastika. Both were used in Sankrit.

Well, I'm going by what a WWII Documentary said.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Does anybody know anything about the Achaemenid Empires army. I've looked on the internet, and didn't get much.

[mikey]

Does anybody know anything about the Achaemenid Empires army. I've looked on the internet, and didn't get much.

Herodotus describes the equipment of the Persian soldier as a soft felt cap, an embroidered sleeved tunic with iron 'fish-scales, trousers, a wicker shield, a big bow, cane arrows, a short spear and a dagger. This is considered standard for the Iranian contingent.

An itemised list of equipment for a cavalry man from Uruk, dating to 422BCE is known: food and money, horse and harness, saddlecloth, iron breast plate, helmet with neck gaurd, shield, 130 arrows, an iron club and 2 javelins, with no mention of armour for the horse, (known for cavalry of a later date).

By the time of the Greek wars the army would have consisted of 46 different 'peoples', the core being 'Median', with the rest drawn from the vast empire that had been conquered by 480BCE, Herodutus mentions Ethiopians, Nubians, Arabs, Babylonians, Lydians... This army would obviously have been very diverse in equipment with the King in the centre, accompanied by Magi, the empty chariot of Ahuramazda (the God of the Truth) drawn by 8 white horses, and perhaps 360 concubines (mentioned by Herdotus when he described Darius III setting out from Babylon 333BCE).

If you have access to a good library look for J.M. Cook The Persians, my source, although it is quite academic. A little bit more accesible would be Tom Holland Persian Fire, which I would really recomend.

Edited November 27, 2009 by mikey

[Joey Lock]

Anyone heard? Terry Herbert, 55, with his metal detector undercovered a hoard of Saxon gold from Fred Johnson's field and will make around 3 Million squid shared from Saxon gold. About 1,500 pieces of gold and silver, mostly weapons and other military artifacts, some inlaid with precious stones where found.

An amazing find!

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Herodotus describes the equipment of the Persian soldier as a soft felt cap, an embroidered sleeved tunic with iron 'fish-scales, trousers, a wicker shield, a big bow, cane arrows, a short spear and a dagger. This is considered standard for the Iranian contingent.

An itemised list of equipment for a cavalry man from Uruk, dating to 422BCE is known: food and money, horse and harness, saddlecloth, iron breast plate, helmet with neck gaurd, shield, 130 arrows, an iron club and 2 javelins, with no mention of armour for the horse, (known for cavalry of a later date).

By the time of the Greek wars the army would have consisted of 46 different 'peoples', the core being 'Median', with the rest drawn from the vast empire that had been conquered by 480BCE, Herodutus mentions Ethiopians, Nubians, Arabs, Babylonians, Lydians... This army would obviously have been very diverse in equipment with the King in the centre, accompanied by Magi, the empty chariot of Ahuramazda (the God of the Truth) drawn by 8 white horses, and perhaps 360 concubines (mentioned by Herdotus when he described Darius III setting out from Babylon 333BCE).

If you have access to a good library look for J.M. Cook The Persians, my source, although it is quite academic. A little bit more accesible would be Tom Holland Persian Fire, which I would really recomend.

Thanks. The reason I was asking was because I want to build a Persian army.

[mikey]

Thanks. The reason I was asking was because I want to build a Persian army.

The Prince of Persia figures will definetly have good potential, ive had that idea in mind aswell!

I have found a decent book, The Persian Army 560-330 BC, on Google Book Preview. Its not the full text, but its got some good pictures, you could have a look at that for some inspiration.

[Joey Lock]

I'd watch some Jason and the Argonauts. You may want to make a Shamen who can summon Skeleton warriors!

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

The Prince of Persia figures will definetly have good potential, ive had that idea in mind aswell!

I have found a decent book, The Persian Army 560-330 BC, on Google Book Preview. Its not the full text, but its got some good pictures, you could have a look at that for some inspiration.

Those pictures are nice. I wonder if the Persians employed Scythians?

I'd watch some Jason and the Argonauts. You may want to make a Shamen who can summon Skeleton warriors!

Maybe