Heroica RPG General Discussion

[TheBoyWonder]

Oh sorry I forgot. I will edit the post.

Leo just got a bit too much to handle. Writing in his style was far to different from me, I grew to dislike using RP. Also, I felt the advance class choices are limiting with a knight.

[Sandy]

Also, I felt the advance class choices are limiting with a knight.

Funny you felt that way without even testing them out in battle... Have you got any suggestions to make the choices less limiting, then?

I'd love to hear your thoughts in more detail.

[TheBoyWonder]

I like Black Knight, it it is limited by the lack of an ability to mug, whereas the rest of the rogue classes can. Mystic Knight lacks the ether to sustain a powerful magic attack. Warden's Aura can get you Ko'd quite easily.

[Kadabra]

Here's my own idea and blurrypic for an Expert Class:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2079/dragonchampions002.jpg

(WARNING! RIDICULOUSLY LARGE FOR SOME REASON! )

Dragon Champion

Flavor text: Dragon Champions are humanoids who have been blessed by a dragon and granted some of their power, as well as a scaly appearance. They often serve as ambassadors to humanoid races, who feel far more comfortable among other bipeds, no matter how draconic, than even the smallest dragon. Others serve as personal Heroes for their patron dragon, and go out on Quests for them to retrieve rare treasures and artifacts for their hoards or serve as captains of the dragon's army of minions. It is an unspoken rule among Dragon Champions to always be in formal attire, even going so far as to wear suits or gowns under their armor in battle, as being representatives of a foreign race, they want to make a good impression.

Health Bonus: +7

Equipment: Dragon Champions utilize long, heavy weapons such as spears, axes, scythes, war picks, hammers, flails, maces, etc. that give them the advantage of reach whilst defending with their shields.

Job Traits: As ambassadors to the dragons, Champions are well versed in political intricacies and know when to be Intimidating, but also when more finesse is required in a Diplomatic situation.

Battle Style: Draconic - Dragon Champions channel their inner reptile in battle and act as cold-blooded killers using the powers they've been granted.

1. SHIELD: Dragon's Blessing The Champion uses the special power he's been granted by his patron dragon. Upon becoming a Champion, the hero selects one power to use on a Shield roll. This may not be switched, even if the hero changes classes then returns to being a Champion.

a. Fire Breath- Deal Fire damage equal to 3x WP to all foes

b. Ice Breath- Deal Ice damage equal to 3x WP to all foes

c. Lightning Breath- Deal Lightning damage equal to 3x WP to all foes

d. Snake Eyes- Hex the foe for 3 turns

e. Acid Spit- Badly Poison the target and Poison all other foes

f. Sonic Roar- Stuns all foes

2. CRITICAL VICIOUS STRIKE: The Champion ravages the foe, using his long, serrated fangs as well as his weapon. WPx4 + lvl, and the Champion takes 1/2 of the damage given in recoil. Recoil is reduced by 1/2 of the Champion's SP.

3. VICIOUS STRIKE: The Champion strikes like a snake, delivering a fast, reckless blow while relying on his shield to defend from counterattacks. WPx2 + lvl, and the Champion takes 1/2 of the damage given in recoil. Recoil is reduced by 1/2 of the Champion's SP.

4. OVERSHOOT: The Champion misses his intended target, instead hitting the next enemy in the roster for WP only and Stuns himself

5. COUNTERED DEFENDED DAMAGE: The Champion takes damage equal to 2x the foe's level, minus his SP, then deals 1/4 of the damage back.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Champion receives the foe's Special skill.

Obviously, this is a very rough draft, as I don't have any Expert Class examples to model it off of. This was originally going to be a one-off NPC class along the lines of Dream Sailor or Engineer modeled after the Advanced Classes for a Quest I'll pitch aimed at Level 25+ players once those become mor common (Speaking of which, Sandy, should I pitch that to you now or wait until there are more players that actually qualify for it and I have a good idea of a start date?), but the way the Quest is set up it would be a perfect reward, so I've done some quick modifications to make it more player accessible. Thoughts, feedback, criticism on its balance, etc. appreciated so it'll be optimal for playing when the time comes appreciated.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Rick
Turned "ridicilously large" image into a link. Do not use spoiler tags to avoid the guidelines regarding maximum image size (800 x 600 px).

[Masked Builder]

I'll have my two quests up later this week, most probably.

Well, I'm ready to get out of the hall. Any ideas as to when Ellaria will be back? I know you said soon but it's been a while...

[TheBoyWonder]

Another low level quest would be nice.

[Scubacarrot]

I like Black Knight, it it is limited by the lack of an ability to mug, whereas the rest of the rogue classes can. Mystic Knight lacks the ether to sustain a powerful magic attack. Warden's Aura can get you Ko'd quite easily.

I know I am no Sandy, and I certainly lack the insight of Flipz, but here is what i think:

The Black Knight sounds cool, it is probably the class that you can best incorporate in your roleplaying, and it's (unique) Job trait: intimidation, is the best one I feel from a roleplaying perspective. However, I think it may be lacking from a combat point of view, not because of a lack of a mug, Witches don't have them either, and they are still one of the classes with the most interesting mechanics. Rogues don't equal mugging, nor should they be. Sure, it is their only real advantage at the start of the game, but it SHOULD not be the reason someone picks rogue.

Now, I am going to pick Raider as an advanced class for Guts, I have said this before, and the main reason is this: From a roleplaying perspective, it fits him the best, he has no desire to learn any real magic, or would be the silent type, as assassin would imply. It was a close call between raider and Black Knight, and when I compared the stats, I picked Raider, because honestly, Black Knight seems like a weak class in use.

It's special is limited in use, sure, most enemies so far have been humanoids, so by that logic, it is pretty powerful, but as soon as you have an amethyst, it is not smart to pick it, and if you are fighting enemies immune to darkness, you have a problem. Add to that the fact that the Black Knight is stunned after it's special, and yeah... Now, as a knight, you are the defender, by RPG standards, you are the tank. Because of the fact that the Black Knight dodges from specials, you can not really fill that role because to prevent the possibility someone is hit twice by a special, the Black Knight should always be placed last in the battle order. The "Mortal Hit" mechanic is I think really creative, and can give an advantage when the fight goes well, and can simply not be used when it's not.

[CMP]

I know I am no Sandy, and I certainly lack the insight of Flipz, but here is what i think:

I agree. The Shield's a real gamble, and you'd actually dread rolling it if fighting Demons. But the Hide, Defended Damage, and Dodge make it really worth it, and the extra health you save by avoiding damage can be used to great effect in Mortal Hits.

Kadabra, that sounds both ungodly overpowered and extremely complicated, in my mind.

[Scubacarrot]

I agree. The Shield's a real gamble, and you'd actually dread rolling it if fighting Demons. But the Hide, Defended Damage, and Dodge make it really worth it, and the extra health you save by avoiding damage can be used to great effect in Mortal Hits.

Yes, I agree, but I forgot to add, essentially the Black Knight is not a defender, but more of a survivor. So I really understand why Knights would not pick it.

[CMP]

Yes, I agree, but I forgot to add, essentially the Black Knight is not a defender, but more of a survivor. So I really understand why Knights would not pick it.

That, and I can't see many Knights fitting into the roleplaying aspect either. Knifk, maybe, but for the most part...

[Scubacarrot]

That, and I can't see many Knights fitting into the roleplaying aspect either. Knifk, maybe, but for the most part...

Maybe Boomingham, but he went down the paladin path, Hoke and Leo are (no offense at all intended) generic enough a fairly easy roleplaying spin would allow them to become them.

I figured Knifk more for a Berserker actually, he charges in battle with few words, and he hates cowards, hehe.

[Sandy]

Obviously, this is a very rough draft, as I don't have any Expert Class examples to model it off of. This was originally going to be a one-off NPC class along the lines of Dream Sailor or Engineer modeled after the Advanced Classes for a Quest I'll pitch aimed at Level 25+ players once those become mor common (Speaking of which, Sandy, should I pitch that to you now or wait until there are more players that actually qualify for it and I have a good idea of a start date?), but the way the Quest is set up it would be a perfect reward, so I've done some quick modifications to make it more player accessible. Thoughts, feedback, criticism on its balance, etc. appreciated so it'll be optimal for playing when the time comes appreciated.

I think your proposed job class is best left for NPCs, because it's quite imbalanced in terms of power, and unnecessarily complex. It also doesn't make sense that the job class would permanently change the character's whole appearance.

You are welcomed to pitch me anything whenever you think the idea is fleshed out enough.

[posades]

Shouldn't Xander be able to attack in this turn, since he was revived and all? I have noticed that occuring in other quests.

I wasn't sure, I just assumed me being revived would take up my turn.

[Sandy]

I wasn't sure, I just assumed me being revived would take up my turn.

It doesn't, just as long you're in the turn order after the person that revived you.

[Bricksandparts]

Awesome ideas for the classes Sandy! I can't wait to get to level 30!

[Scubacarrot]

My Pitch for the Infiltrator:

Infiltrator:

These warriors are adept at using any item they come across, and work best in teams, to get the job done.

Additional Health: TBD

Weapons: Infiltrators can use anything used by rangers, rogues and knights, with the exception of shields.

Job Traits: Intense Items Usage (don't question the name): Can use two items in one turn. Flee: (See Rogue) "Diplomacy": Infiltrators don't have time for long conversations, if needs be, they apply pressure at all the right points.

Battle Style: Teamwork - Infiltrators work in a team, and are enhanced by their allies.

1.

Shield: Inspired Flurry

- The Infiltrator uses his allies to quickly deal damage to multiple opponents, and strikes a number of enemies equal to the

amount of standing allied party members

, and deals damage to each of them equal to their Level plus an emount equal to the number of

standing allied party members

, times weapon power. (e.g. Level 15 + 3 allies x 10 Weapon Power = 45 damage to a maximum of 3 opponents.)

2.

Inspired Critical Blow

- The Infiltrator delivers a powerful blow a single opponent, inspired by the presence of allies. They deal damage equal to their

Power,

PLUS an emount equal to the number of

standing allied party members

, times weapon power. (e.g. Weapon Power 10 + Level 15 + 3 allies x 10 = 55 damage.)

3.

Hit

- The Infiltrator deals damage with strength equal to their Power. (e.g. Weapon Power 10 + Level 15 = 25 damage)

4.

Dirty Fighting

- The Infiltrator steals gold equal to the target's level, and delivers a nasty kick, leaving the opponent stunned for the next turn.

5.

Damage

- The Infiltrator is struck with the opponent's attack.

6.

Special Damage

- The Infiltrator is struck with the opponent's special skill.

I realize you can not potentially be this class at level 15, but it makes it easier to compare it to the advanced job classes. Tell me what you think :)

[Darth Nihilus]

It's special is limited in use, sure, most enemies so far have been humanoids, so by that logic, it is pretty powerful, but as soon as you have an amethyst, it is not smart to pick it, and if you are fighting enemies immune to darkness, you have a problem. Add to that the fact that the Black Knight is stunned after it's special, and yeah... Now, as a knight, you are the defender, by RPG standards, you are the tank. Because of the fact that the Black Knight dodges from specials, you can not really fill that role because to prevent the possibility someone is hit twice by a special, the Black Knight should always be placed last in the battle order. The "Mortal Hit" mechanic is I think really creative, and can give an advantage when the fight goes well, and can simply not be used when it's not.

Since Amethysts are not very accessible to the general body of Heroes (not sold by Elphaba-haven't seen many enemies that drop them), Black Knight is one of the best ways for a non-mage character to get Darkness-elemental damage against an enemy. Add to that the fact that Topaz is one of the most-purchased gems, and (I think) you could potentially have quadruple-damage against humanoid enemies. So, this means that Black Knights with a Topaz-imbued weapon (Which I happen to have ) fighting a Humanoid, would get WP x 12 added to level damage. Let's do the math, shall we. As no-one else has stated plans to become a Black Knight, I will use Dak and assume he is Lvl 15 with the dagger he has, WP:10. Fighting against a Humanoid enemy, he would get 10 x 12 + 15 = 135 damage, more than enough to (potentially) take it out. Even though he's stunned, he can take the first spot in the battle order, and his shield can absorb the free hit(s), if there are any. That's why I don't think Black Knight is underpowered, especially with a good shield and/or weapon.

I agree. The Shield's a real gamble, and you'd actually dread rolling it if fighting Demons. But the Hide, Defended Damage, and Dodge make it really worth it, and the extra health you save by avoiding damage can be used to great effect in Mortal Hits.

Kadabra, that sounds both ungodly overpowered and extremely complicated, in my mind.

Demons wouldn't be too bad as a Black Knight, unless there are more of them than there are of the party. As I said, when a Black Knight is Stunned after a Shield roll, he/she can be placed first in the battle order to absorb the free hits.

Yes, I agree, but I forgot to add, essentially the Black Knight is not a defender, but more of a survivor. So I really understand why Knights would not pick it.

Exactly. Whereas all the other Knight advanced classes (except, perhaps, Mystic Knight) are more the take-damage-to-save-the-rest-of-the-party classes, Black Knight allows you to upgrade yourself to be a total tank, and survive if the rest of the party gets KO'd. Admittedly, as a result of the 6 roll, they may not be a team player class, but still, they can make short work of enemies if they get their weapons and shields strong enough.

[Flipz]

You are welcomed to pitch me anything whenever you think the idea is fleshed out enough.

OK, this has been rattling around the back of my head for a while, so I'll just outright ask it:

Would it be allowed to have a character person sentient being be considered a "Quest Item"? As opposed to an NPC? (If you need more context, I'd be happy to share privately.) I can't think of any mechanical reason it'd be a problem, the only problem I see is that it would sort of de-humanize them.

[Scubacarrot]

What? Topaz's don't do double damage against humanoids... And yes, when stunned, he can effectively be used to soak up free hits, which is very useful.

[CMP]

I might actually try that class. One thing I think you should clarify though is the formulas involved in calculating damage, it's really confusing. For Shield, it should be Level 15 + (3 allies x 10 WP) = 45 damage to a maximum of 3 opponents and for Critical Inspired hit it should be (WP 10 + Level 15) + (3 allies x WP 10) = 55 damage. I also personally think you should remove the part about using Knights' equipment, since shields don't count anyway, not to mention pretty much every weapon Knights use have been swords so far, and Rogues can use those anyway. Really, we need some lances and maces and stuff.

Demons wouldn't be too bad as a Black Knight, unless there are more of them than there are of the party. As I said, when a Black Knight is Stunned after a Shield roll, he/she can be placed first in the battle order to absorb the free hits.

No, you would be dealing absolutely no damage because Demons are resistant to darkness elemental damage. A Shield would just be stunning yourself for the next round with no positive effects at all. You could soak up free hits up anyway.

Would it be allowed to have a character person sentient being be considered a "Quest Item"? As opposed to an NPC? (If you need more context, I'd be happy to share privately.) I can't think of any mechanical reason it'd be a problem, the only problem I see is that it would sort of de-humanize them.

You mean like the Szalinski kids from Quest 12?

Edited May 2, 2012 by CallMePieOrDie

[Darth Nihilus]

What? Topaz's don't do double damage against humanoids... And yes, when stunned, he can effectively be used to soak up free hits, which is very useful.

Oh crap, checked the rules and you're right. I could've sworn it said that Lightning deals double damage to Humanoids earlier.

No, you would be dealing absolutely no damage because Demons are resistant to darkness elemental damage. A Shield would just be stunning yourself for the next round with no positive effects at all. You could soak up free hits up anyway.

Yes, but if you target it and roll a Shield, even though you won't deal damage, there won't be any negative effects to the party. You could still soak up the free hits, even though you're Stunned. If, say, it instantly KO'd you instead, I would protest. But really, it's not too bad when you think about it, or at least not to me.

[Scubacarrot]

I might actually try that class. One thing I think you should clarify though is the formulas involved in calculating damage, it's really confusing. For Shield, it should be Level 15 + (3 allies x 10 WP) = 45 damage to a maximum of 3 opponents and for Critical Inspired hit it should be (WP 10 + Level 15) + (3 allies x WP 10) = 55 damage. I also personally think you should remove the part about using Knights' equipment, since shields don't count anyway, not to mention pretty much every weapon Knights use have been swords so far, and Rogues can use those anyway. Really, we need some lances and maces and stuff.

Thanks for the input! The Formulas as you stated them are better, and exactly what i meant, except that the maximum of 3 opponents of course raises if there are more allies. I don't really agree with removing the part about the Knight's equipment, since there have been weapons that said "usable by Barbarians and Knights" and of course they should be able to use weapons that would say "Usable by Knights", if you get my drift

[Waterbrick Down]

Another victory, woohoo! No one can take me down! Buahaha... at least, that is, no one who is actually not doing a quest can't take me down

Challenge accepted, Skrall's going for a record for most Wardens defeated.

[Flipz]

No, you would be dealing absolutely no damage because Demons are resistant to darkness elemental damage. A Shield would just be stunning yourself for the next round with no positive effects at all. You could soak up free hits up anyway.

What if you have an elementally-imbued weapon? Would that elemental damage still be counted as if it were a sword dual-imbued with an Amethyst?

You mean like the Szalinski kids from Quest 12?

Well, sort of, I guess like that.

[CMP]

Yes, but if you target it and roll a Shield, even though you won't deal damage, there won't be any negative effects to the party. You could still soak up the free hits, even though you're Stunned. If, say, it instantly KO'd you instead, I would protest. But really, it's not too bad when you think about it, or at least not to me.

Still, Shields are supposed to be the best rolls, Stunning yourself for no reason isn't that beneficial to anyone. But it is just one enemy type, so as long as Black Knights don't get into any Wren Quests, it shouldn't pose much trouble.