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Well, to be 100% authentic they would need most of the pieces to be made of metal, and the gears to be precision ground, and encased in cast aluminium alloy casings which are then filled with oil and yeah, that's not gonna happen! But they surely can be more authentic than they are. The parts pallet is really getting good in some areas. For the gearboxes, they are only a few more gearsizes and a rethink of their utilisation in sets and colour scheme away from perfection in the eyes of this hardcore fan right here! It's really not that far. I'll have to agree to disagree with some of the incorrect comments made in this topic and others like it. They do listen to us in this forum. I have no insider knowledge of what's coming, but was given some inside knowledge years ago of how my comments on this forum directly influenced the development of the Arocs. You can thank Markus' brilliance and willingness to listen to my persistent whining about wanting longer pneumatics for that! I don't see myself as being part of TLGs target audience, but my whole existence isn't defined as merely a member of a relatively small group of Technic enthusiasts either. I am not a group, big or small. I am one individual, and that's all it takes to have an idea that someone in TLG reads and thinks hey, I'd like that too! So all I can say is keep on making these topics and commenting on them, and make your criticisms constructive. Don't just say "I want less cars". Instead say what you do want, and let them decide if and how they might include it amongst the lineup of cars! If what you want is a telehandler for example say "I want a telehandler", but don't stop there. A telehandler could range from being a ground breaking game changer (First RC fully pneumatic or even actual hydraulics!), pretty decent (interesting, complex and intricate geared mechanisms with ungeared motors and a return of belt drives and/or flex system) all the way down to awful (all the mechanics are pre built in the factory in the form on linear actuators and gear reduction inside the motor). Pitch your telehandler idea and explain why it's worth the monetary investment TLG would have to make to bring it into reality. If you really don't like what is happening with Technic then these are the comments that do have a small but very real chance of steering the ship towards better things.

That is good news. Value is relative. I'll pass on a 300 euro same old same old sort of model but would happily pay quite a bit more than that for a proper game changer of a flagship. Sort of like they tried to do with 42100. A big, expensive and rather quite well designed/engineered and mechanically powerful (though much too slow) set that was clearly intended to be a big leap forward in ambition (which I do still admire for that), but this time with electronics being a compliment to real authentic mechanisms rather than a replacement to real authentic mechanisms, of which 42100 really didn't have any for it's digging arm/bucket functions.

I think hydraulics is....doable....but probably not in a way that's both authentic and financially viable. It would probably be like an already existing Lego compatible system where you have individual pumps for each hydraulic circuit, which would be less realistic than pneumatics. I'd much rather have a fully authentic version of hydraulics with proper stackable valves and return path to a tank. It could all be plastic with stainless steel rods and use tap water but would require a stronger way to affix the hoses to stop them popping off, and better watertight seals. It would also need some comprehensive instructions (ie written in multiple languages with lots of colour photos) for how to fill the system with water and bleed the air out. This difficulty level increase might actually be the biggest hurdle to overcome, but then it would finally match the 18+ branding. It would also be pricey, but look what people paid for C+, so maybe not impossible? It would also make a truly realistic telehandler possible. Look up the clever way hydraulics are used to keep the forks level when raising/lowering. Hydraulics would give all the benefits of pneumatics, plus the one tiny benefit of LAs. I don't expect them to ever do it, but I have been wrong before.

I don't think the issue is that there exists some sets in the Technic theme that are lacking from our point of view. It's that there seems to be little else, with many sets not reaching the potential of their parts. If the cars sell well and help the Technic theme that's great. No issue with having them stay with the Technic theme. The theme used to have only a few sets per year but now has 2 or 3 times the amount, so there's room for a few cars. So long as there's still flying machines, digging machines, swimming/floating machines, lifting machines, random machines and the odd creature here and there that hold the core values of Technic and Lego as a whole. Technic can be a board church that caters to the masses, the casuals as well as us nerds.

Well I'm still of the opinion that, despite being part of a minority group pf customers, we are the ones that know better than the masses or the casuals what the Technic theme is capable of. We really do care about the theme far beyond "that looks cool". And it's always the same discussion, the same comments every wave of sets that gets revealed. We are a minority. TLG has to cater to the masses. We are not the masses but only a relatively small group. Technic needs to be easy to build and so on! Yes. We know. Nobody on here is saying that Technic shouldn't be easy to build or cater to the masses or do what it needs to do to be successful. After all, if it's not successful, it won't exist. We all get that. However, the argument is why must it ONLY cater to the masses? It can look eye catching, covered in panels, easy to build and be licensed out the megablocks, non of that means that it can't also be mechanically interesting and authentic and cater to the core fan base as well. Bear in mind, that when it comes to the parts selection, I personally feel VERY listened to by the Technic team, I really do! So I don't really want to complain, that would be very ungrateful, but I do think a point needs to be made when it comes to the sets/theme as a whole. Lets take the P1 for example. Yes it's another car that's easy for casuals to build and appeals to that market as a nice display piece. Would that be any different if they made the steering work much better, with longer steering arms (increased leverage to turn the wheel will decrease the cheap, awkward and spongy feel), ackermann geometry, a discreet hoG and a steering wheel that is angled upwards towards the driver in a more realistic way? No it wouldn't! it would still appeal the the masses and the casuals and still be easy to build and still look good collecting dust and all the rest of it. What about the P1 gearbox? It has the lovely new parts but those parts are still arranged in an unrealistically complex way. Did the set designer not know what the part designer intended? Do the masses and the casuals find it easy to build and understand? Wouldn't they find it even easier if it was more like a real gearbox with only 2 shafts? Would it suddenly become completely useless as a display piece if the gearbox was more like the real thing? The point is, many on this forum seem to be arguing that Technic should appeal to the masses as if making something that appeals to us would make it appeal less to everyone else for some reason, and I just don't see any reason for that. I see it the opposite way, we know how good it could be, they don't. As far as Technic goes, the masses probably couldn't tell you what they want from the theme until it's presented to them. Why would they, they don't obsess over the theme like we do! Why would the masses and the casuals want crap feeling steering, or color vomit that makes their very expensive, made for adults, built for real 18+ adult model car look like a toy made for toddlers when there are other (and I believe more effective) options for reducing the risk of making mistakes and making parts easy to find, or RC sets that cost more but perform less than other RC models and don't have a physical remote and weak sauce pre geared motors? Ah but it clearly sells I hear you cry. Okay.....so is that it? What if it could still sell but be a better product that holds on to the core ethos "only the best is good enough", that actually fulfills the marketing "build for real" and "adults welcome" promise, and holds on to a fanbase that have spent more on Lego than any casual ever will, that same core fan base that should still be around long after this "Lego for adults" marketing has passed? Nope, it sells well enough. What if we could make it sell better? What if we could make it look better to hardcore fans and casuals alike? What if we could make this success last another 50 years after everyone is pissed off with StarWars? What if......nope, it sells okay right now in this point in time, that's all that counts! Sorry, I'm not convinced.

Totally agreed about the parts being superior to the sets. The MOCing opportunities are great, there's a bunch of things I want to get to but I rarely have the time to put together even a sketch model. Besides, If I did find the time to MOC it, the interesting mechanical bits would still be multicolored because that's the only colors available. Also, the Technic design team have the time, the tools and the talent to make something better than I can. I can make a MOC, but they can make a set that has had many helping expert hands and over 50 iterations with new parts and recolored parts and it's a more professional and polished final product. We know they are good. We know what they can do. Technic is like an A+ capable student putting in B- work.

Agreed. Absolutely why not have the superficial eye candy on the outside while still having great mechanisms on the inside? They could make yet another car set, this time aimed at girls in all pink for all I care, and still make a mechanically great set out of it. Superficial looks and mechanics aren't mutually exclusive. But even just focusing on the looks, mechanics that are true to life that you can build yourself can look as cool to a small boy as a sleek car exterior. I don't think building real true to life mechanical things is really THAT niche among their target age group. Sure some young boys today just want a screen to play with, but any young boy that's still into cars in general will still get a buzz from a cool and authentic looking gearbox. Technic cars of the late 80 and 90s looked good without being covered up because the internal mechanics also looked cool. Technic cars can be covered in fancy paneled exteriors but as you can always see the mechanisms as you are building them, they should also still look just as cool. Mechanics in a Technic set should be treated like minifigures in a star wars set. They should look cool and good enough to be eye candy in and of themselves, and shown proudly somewhere on the box. You couldn't really do that with any modern technic gearbox, even with the fantastic new parts in an 18+ set, they are seriously cool parts, but they are still presented, arranged and colored to look like an uncool toddlers incomprehensible mess. It's like taking a beautifully tender and juicy roast chicken and smothering it in fluorescent green/yellow paint (presumably so your 18+ customers can find it on the dinner plate) and then wondering why your perfectly cooked chicken is so niche!

I can live with the multitude of cars and a bunch of other stuff that's not for me so long as there are a few alternatives to keep me interested. The 1:5 Yamaha, the airbus, the John Deere skidder, the pneumatic tow truck, these are all very good sets. There are some other lesser talked about but surprisingly good sets also, like the 42174 racing yacht. These sets that still carry the soul of Technic are few and far between, and the flagships have been mechanically rather dull and/or inauthentic. But I've been a fan over 30 years, I've been here before with Technic, and every now and then they release an Arocs of a set, an absolute beast of a flagship that will wipe all the tears away. The technic team may be overseen by cooperate marketing focus group worshipping penny pinchers, but I think they them selves are still fans. In terms of a truly great flagship, I have a feeling, maybe this year maybe not, but something is coming. At least, I still hope!

And forklift and a telehandler at that price? I would agree. But a backhoe? I wouldn't want to tie the designers hands by limiting them to a price point, not for a proper, flagship of flagships, fully pneumatic JCB backhoe. Make is as big and as costly as it needs to be. The bucket wheel excavator had to be quite big t do what it does, and I think a properly good backhoe would be the same. While 8455 is a legend, it does miss out many functions of a JCB, such as an opening/closing front bucket, rear side shift, rear telescoping boom, pendular front axle and 4 wheel drive. A super powerful motorized compressor would also be very nice (one farty little motor pump ain't gonna cut it! It's functions need speed and POWAH to replicate the real thing) At a price of 250, I think they'd have to leave out too much potential.

On please no! No more forcing screens on kiddies please TLG!

Love the dark blue. Looking at the parts list it also looks to have the proper engine, not the cam style engine (which the 1:5 ducati has).

I mean, the gearbox of the Yamaha was a legendary improvement in gearboxes for sure (the gearbox being the most mechanically interesting part, so that's wonderful!), but if this Ducati doesn't improve on the gearbox in some way (like adding more speeds), and it uses the newer, less realistic cam style engine, then it's a step backwards overall.

Unfortunately I think you're right. One step forwards (gearboxes are getting better) but one step back (unrealistic engine, less realistic than what we already had for decades).

This looks fantastic! I'd also like to see an underside shot.

Nice work, looks very cartoonish in its proportions but you're limited to the parts of the set and it ends up looking kinda cute!

By "pump" I assume you mean pneumatic cylinder/piston/actuator? Only one pump (in this case aquarium pump) would be required. But yes, this would work. The pumps supply is fed to both valves. Valve A controls pneumatic piston B. Piston B is then mechanically linked to valve Bs lever, so that also moves. Valve B controls Piston A so now piston A moves. Piston A is mechanically linked to valve As lever so now that moves, and the cycle repeats over and over again (this is the same as the b-model of 8868). Then you just link the wall to the movement of the pistons.

Excellent work! Looks very playable.

Quick question, has anyone tried engaging the rear diff lock and then driving it round in circles? I was wondering what would give in this model. Do the large tyres actually slip as one wheel tries to cover more distance than the other?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this. I didn't say our gripes were shared by everyone, or that there aren't people raving about the set. I'm saying that if they had much more mechanically authentic mechanisms, that both looked more like the real thing and that also functioned and played really well, then all these people would still rave about it! But maybe they would also have some beauty shots of a gorgeous gearbox to post in their article for all the piston and gear heads to swoon over, as opposed to a picture of a barely understandable, overly colourful garbled mess that looks as though it's aimed for a much younger audience despite being too overly complex. While some people are not bothered by the colours and the current "it's only a display model" attitude to the steering and whatnot, there are some people that are bothered those things, and the people that aren't bothered still won't be bothered, though might be pleasantly surprised when these things are improved. Sometimes it's hard to know what we want from something that were only a passing casual fan of. The writers of articles like the one you posted, sure they like what they see and that's great, but I think we have a better understanding of how good it could be! I know it's easy for me to sit and imagine the truly ultimate Technic car, and that the difficult part is making it into reality. But I have faith in the Technic design team. I truly believe that if I can I imagine it, they can do it! I think that if and when they get to the pinnacle of how good it can be through years of continuous improvement then these same article writers and their readers will swoon even more over it, and the rest of us will love it too!

I'm likely to get it too! It's not a bad set, I'm just saying that as a fan of authentic mechanisms, I like the improvements over the Ferrari but there's still a lot more they could do. I am glad to see these improvements coming out over many years and I do feel like fan feedback is helping to drive and maybe even inspire these improvements. I greatly appreciate that, but I'm also not going to stop giving my own feedback. The fact that they have at least appeared to listen to and react to feedback makes me feel listened to as a fan, makes me want to continue giving feedback and also try to give more thoughtful and considered opinions, which is why I waited a while before posting. Yes I can modify it. If I could modify a Vauxhall/Opel into being a Lamborghini, would that make a Vauxhall as good as a Lamborghini and therefore worth the price of a Lamborghini? Yes I can modify it but that's not the point. It's better than the Ferrari but if they want some options for making the next one even better from this fans perspective, well I have presented some in this thread. To be clear, I don't want to even try to spoil anyone's enjoyment of this set, not that I even could, I'm likely to get it myself. I'm just also of the opinion that the next UCS car can improve things even further.

@nerdsforprez but I am not saying to target ONLY a narrow segment of the market, this is the false dichotomy that you appear to be presenting. I'm saying to cast their nets even wider to cater to not only to current fans of display models but also to fans of mechanically authentic models. And I do want to repeat that they are getting better, make no mistake, I can see their improvement in this regard. I mean, when you think about it, just how big is the market for "beautiful" display models that have a bunch of huge panel gaps and is only a Lego approximation? It also seems like a niche thing to want TBH. Is it right to just assume that also niche market is many times bigger than the market of buyers looking for mechanically accurate models? I don't think you need to be super mechanically skilled or knowledgeable to look at two different gearboxes, see one has two shafts with a bunch of tastefully coloured gears of different sizes and neatly arranged in pairs, see the other has something like 14 shafts with as many different clown colours for the gears and think, one looks like a cool scale model which I could learn from and the other looks like a clown coloured toy that's not aimed at me because I'm an adult, and I'll never understand because I'm not an engineer. When I look at the new Technic sets, I'm not thinking "oh boy oh gee oh wow, I'm a smarty pants engineer that's knows how everything works and I belong to this right upper part of this market group thingy so therefore I want this and I want that....". No. I see something and think, I like it, or I don't like it. I see this P1 and I see where I think it improves on things, and where it could have been better. A company that strives for only bigger profits in the short term at the expense of continual improvement in the long term will not last while it has competition. Thankfully for TLG, it's competition is rather lacking, but they are also getting better.

I'm not sure that it necessarily follows that a car this size has to be fully Technic. The largest and heaviest sets are not sold under the Technic theme but are like the AT-AT, which kinda feels like a Technic set in disguise but is not sold as Technic. If they want a display model then bring out a new theme (speed champions ultra, which would spell UCS backwards?) with Technic inner structures but brick built exteriors. But I don't think this is the solution we want is it? I don't want to buy an illusion either. Like I said to @nerdsforprez, there's no reason why we can't have the same great, display model quality looks while at the same time improving on all the more "Technic" aspects to make it much more than only a display model. "These are only display models" you say, but why? They don't have to be! If you get all you want from these things being only a display model well that's great, I would never want or try to deny you that. But why deny all the other great values they could bring like "build for real" authentic mechanisms and good playability when there's no reason to? Having said all this, I still say the P1 is an improvement over what came before. It has, as far as I can see, one singular 7 speed gearbox using 4 different sizes of clutch gear. It's still far too overly complex with too many shafts, but that is still better than the Chiron, Sian and Ferrari having two 4 speed gearboxes mangled together to make a 16 speed gearbox but where the ratios are duplicated giving us an 8 speed 16 position gearbox when the original car it was based on had a 7 speed! So I do want to give Lego props for that.

This is indeed a strong argument however, to me it appears like a false dichotomy (correct me if I'm wrong) where we have to choose between sets that appeal to one type of audience (it has to look great, which this set does) or it has to appeal to another type of audience that like authentic mechanisms that perform and play well. But I don't think we have to choose, why not have both? I don't see any reason why the gearbox couldn't be laid out more realistically or why the steering wheel couldn't be angled up towards the driver and why the steering couldn't work well while still keeping the outward appearance the same? We have a removable knob for the rear wing but not for the steering? In fact, imagine we have an authentic working and authentic LOOKING gearbox! The clutch gears would be on one shaft with the opposing gears one another shaft. They would all be gun metal grey with a discreet ring of colour printed on them to aid building. I mean, minifigs get dual moulding, prints and so on, these gearbox parts are our minifigs! So you make this much more authentic, absolutely not multicoloured and great looking gearbox, well now you can slap a picture of that somewhere on the box and now the overall package looks even cooler, and the gearheads are also happy! There is beauty in a cars looks for sure, but there is also beauty in miniature mechanisms that both work and look like the real thing. Actually working breaks would not only add to the functionality, but if done right would actually be a much more pleasing thing to look at than something that is fake. So I do think it's possible to appeal more to both sides. Whilst I may be one one side, I can still appreciate the spending power of the other! Also, I kinda view the different themes as being like different forms of music. Speed champions, star wars and whatever, they are like different pop bands, and Technic is like ACDC, which is a rock band. Pop might sell better than rock, but rock still sells amazingly well and be around for much longer than pop in it's current form. So should ACDC make a pop album? Heck no! It would suck and all the ACDC fans would say they have lost it? They should stick to what they can do better than the rest. Technic can do fully customisable mechanisms based on generic components better than any other brand or company, let alone any other Lego theme. Although it's of course important to branch out to as wide of an audience as possible, I understand that, but they shouldn't forget what it's best at.

I am late to comment but still not sure what to say. It's better than the Ferrari because it actually improves on the internal mechanics, mostly the gearbox but also the larger wishbones, and I think it looks better to. It's also great to see the new 12t clutch gear, fantastic! But now the bad. Why does the gearbox still look like a jumbled mess of gears on far to many axles? We're getting some good gearbox parts now, and we're slowly getting to a good number of different sized clutch gears. But it seems they're not there yet. Also, why is the steering wheel still not angled up towards the driver and why is the stepper mechanism still stuffed behind the steering wheel? Why is the steering wheel geared to be so hard to turn and why no hand of God? It seems they are still stuck between two different goals, one is to be a display model where all of the above is more excusable, because the functions won't be played with anyway, and the other goal is to be a good Technic set, as in not a display model. If anyone sees this as a display model then they should have made it from Lego bricks, not Lego Technic. Technic sets are sets that move, that do stuff, that have working mechanisms like the real thing. That's why it has a gearbox and why it absolutely should have a gearbox, it's that simple. You should be able to drive and steer it around the floor easily, and see the engine turn at different speeds (I do like the removable cover btw). But some people seem to think this is some impossible dream, but it wasn't in 1988 with the test car, 1994 with 8880 daytona vx4 supercar or in 1998 with the super street sensation. It is better than the Ferrari, overall it is an improvement to the line of UCS cars, and I'm really happy to see these new gearbox parts. But this car still gives too much weight to @kbalage argument that these cars are for display only. I obviously disagree with that argument but it's not entirely unreasonable to hold to that argument when playability remains so poor, especially when it comes to steering and being able to drive the car and see the engine turning at different speeds. These new and improved gearbox parts are supposed to allow for much more accurate, low friction gearboxes to be made. This allows for the engine to be geared to spin faster (so speed changes are more noticeable when manually driving it), or if Lego still had decently fast motors, to enable jacking the rear wheels off the ground (like 8448) so we can really see the wheels spin fast, and hear the satisfying brrrRRRR click brrrrRRRR of the gear changes. I'm still hopeful that they will get there eventually. But they need to make one of these cars such that it lays the "display model" argument to rest. Technic absolutely should never be a home to display models.

Buggy motors be like....