allanp

Poll is ready for you to vote And so it goes, time and time again, whenever there's a topic discussing a new set or wave of sets, the same arguments appear. So I thought, instead of always having those arguments everywhere else, maybe we could contain them, maybe a little bit, in this topic, and instead of not fully expressing ourselves for fear of straying too far off topic, well now that is the topic, so express away! It's not meant to be confrontational or an excuse to repeat myself! It's kind of like how the future set wishes and speculation topic was intended to remove that sort of thing from all the other threads. To me there appears to be mainly 2 recurring points of discussion. 1) Technic is for kids versus Technic should have more adult appeal and.... 2) Lego is designed to be rebuilt to suit your own wants and desires so you should do that instead of expressing your disappointment verses Ain't nobody got time for that! Lego is expensive and should be better out of the box, and besides it's not always possible to build what I want. Now anyone who knows me knows where I stand on these two points. But for the sake of getting things started I'll briefly sum up. To the first point I say that sure, Lego is primarily for kids and should always be. But that's referring to Lego as a single entity, not as a collection of many different products with many different audiences, and I do think that SOME sets should have more things that would appeal to adult fans such as more focus on mechanical realism, less colour coding, more new things that us adult fans haven't seen many times already such as vehicles with multi function gearboxes or vehicles with each function being driven by it's own motor, as neither of these things are realistic and it's all we ever seem to get just lately. Now of course, all sets should be accessible to the age that's printed on the box, but I remember being a kid and not liking Knex because of how multicoloured and mechanically simplistic it was, so it's disheartening to see Technic going the same way. And what kid wouldn't want the feeling of owning a miniature version of the real thing, as opposed to something that feels like just a toy? I don't say that some sets should have more adult appeal just because I happen to be an adult, but because I honestly think it would make for a more appealing and varied product catalogue for a wider age group. Sure you can have sets with multifunction gearboxes and LAs and so on, but have some mechanically realistic and authentic sets thrown in there as well. Even those of us that like all those LAs and multifunction gearboxes would find the line up more appealing. I mean, you might like ice cream, but if that's all you ever ate, you will eventually grow to hate it. Mix things up a bid and add some variety. If there ever was a way to please everyone then it's with variety. You might not please everyone with a single set (although sets like the Arocs, 8880 and 8868 seem to manage that better than any other), but TLG doesn't have to. They release many sets every year in the Technic line up. If you have a fan base as large and dedicated as we are, and every year you release around a dozen new products, and still every year there are those saying things like "non of this years line up is for me" then, well you might not be doing something wrong exactly, but it certainly could be better. And I don't blame the designers for the decisions made by those that are higher up. We all have our orders! To the second point of Lego being designed to be rebuilt into anything you want, again I have to disagree with that. By that I mean I don't think the phrase "Lego is designed to be rebuilt into anything you want" carries the full weight of what those that are using that phrase intend it to. Of course, Lego IS designed to be rebuilt into other things, but it cannot be rebuilt into anything you want. Of course, it can't be built into something silly like a working space shuttle or a new vaccine. But I'm talking about Technic and the things that by now, after so many years of existence and evolution, it probably should be able to be built into. For example, a realistic 6 speed manual gearbox, with only 2 main shafts, with all the gears aligned on those two shafts and only one extra somewhere for reverse. This is something that is ubiquitous, it exists in 99% of all motor vehicles and yet something as simple as that, it is still not possible in Technic without making custom parts. Another example is leaf spring suspension. Most heavy duty vehicles have these and yet it's not possible to be done in Technic without risking permanent deformation of parts. Or what about a large flagship scale pneumatic forklift, with the really long cylinders that would require? Again not possible with the current parts. So while Lego is designed to be built into something else, that doesn't mean it can be built into what I want, or what I think it should be buildable into. Ok, but what about things that are possible. This years bulldozer flagship could be built pretty close (though not exactly) how I want it with existing parts. That is true, but then why would I buy it? What reason do I have to buy their rather expensive product if I can already build it more to my liking? Well, there is one rather large and compelling reason to do exactly that actually, and that is because sometimes I like just relaxing with a big Lego build. It's so relaxing and therapeutic to just switch off and follow the instructions and not have to think too much about how I'm going to build this or how I'm going to design that. But then that also goes against the idea of "well you can just build it better yourself". I could probably build it more to my personal taste, but with a mentally demanding full time job and other things that most adults have, much of the time I just don't have the time or energy. Now I could instead go for a nice Lesu hydraulic excavator or something like that (and I just might despite it's price tag) but it's just not Lego. I'd never want to stop Lego entirely. Something about Lego just draws me to it, and overall I do love it, it's sooooooo close to being everything I want from my favourite hobby and with new parts like the reduction hubs in 42099, the pneumatics of the Arocs and so on, I'm sure they are listening. So there are my brief rebuttals to those two common arguments. I could say more (yes, I was trying to be brief!) but for a starting point I've rattled on enough already. Feel free to discuss and express your agreement and disagreement as much as you want, and link to this topic should these arguments appear in future set topics.

I did a quick search and couldn't find a similar thread besides the control+ general discussion thread, so apologies if a similar thread already exists. This thread is intended to demystify the whole custom controls thing in Powered up. Here we can share our tips and tricks, and our programs that we've made, kinda like the axle collection thread, and we can also request programs from the community as well. This is not a thread for critiquing powered up, but about making the best of what it currently has to offer. I'll start with a couple little tricks I have found. [TIP] When you are setting up a servo motor, like for steering for example, the program starts and does it's calibration step. However, when you play with the model I have found the servo tries to steer too far on full lock, which causes the motor to bind and remain stalled drawing too much current from the hub and slowing everything down. You can resolve this issue by adding a 0.8 multiplier to the servo command block, so the motor will stop before being mechanically blocked. You can tweak this 0.8 figure up or down to give you as much steering lock as possible before the motor is mechanically blocked. [TIP] You can reverse the direction of a motor or a servo by adding a multiplier to the command block, and multiplying by minus 1. In the case of the servo motor above being multiplied by 0.8, instead multiply it by minus 0.8. [TIP] I have found the custom controls programming to be quite buggy. Like today I was making a 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steered vehicle, using 2 motors for steering. One steering motor had a plus 0.8 multiplier, with the other steering motor having a minus 0.8 multiplier. Then when I pressed the controls button to test, it wouldn't calibrate or do anything remotely like what I wanted. The motors would just wiggle a bit and make funny PWM noises. But I was able to make it work by just unlocking, then locking the controls screen using the little padlock icon in the top corner, then for some reason it worked perfectly. I suspect doing that resets it somehow, so it could be a useful trick if you find your programs not working right. [TIP] A servo is not limited to 90 degrees either side of zero like the old PF servo motor. It will use it's calibration step to find out how far it can mechanically travel and then use that to know how far it has to move. I don't know what the limit is but so far I have found it can do several rotations either side of zero, which is very useful if for example you want to make a big, heavy articulated vehicle, and you want to gear down the servo motor to gain extra mechanical advantage. I'm sure these are very basic and well known tricks already, but I am far from any sort of expert when it comes to Powered up, and the whole idea is to help those who perhaps would benefit from those of us who are much more knowledgeable. So are there any other tips and tricks you would like to share, any programs that you think would be a useful for others to copy, or are there any requests for programs, for example: [Request] Program for Claas 42054 style steering. I would like to have a vehicle that has 2 steered axles, controlled by two servo motors (one motor for each axle). For the controls I would like to have 1 horizontal slider for steering, and 3 buttons to select between 3 steering modes, 2 wheel steer, 4 wheel steer and crab steering. Maybe others more knowledgeable than me could also post a block showcase, where they pick one block and explain in detail everything that block can do. Scrolling through the many blocks I must admit I don't know what half of them do! @kbalage Also, may I have permission to include this link? https://racingbrick.com/powered-up-code-block-guide-full/

@nerdsforprez no need for PM, I think you cleared the air already. As for the @AVCampos multifunction gearboxes versus motor for every function comment, they're both overused and entirely unrealistic and so I'm gonna complain either way which might explain why you do see complaints either way, because they are both undesirable! As for pictures, someone here has seen them but not me! I would like to see them, because like nerdsforprez said, right now all I can talk about are my preferences! So hopefully we'll get something of some more substance to talk about soon!

This is something I need to look into doing also, thanks for sharing. What solution are you using?

@nerdsforprez when you say "they understand Lego is a kids toy and move on" you are the one being sneaky. Firstly you presuppose the notion "Lego is a kids toy" as if it's a fact that applies to every Lego product (Lego do make more than one product) regardless of its age rating, price, complexity or intended appeal. But this is certainly not true for sets like the grand piano or the bonsai tree. They are not kids toys. They are toys for mostly adult collectors. Then you say this "fact" is something to simply be understood and move on, which implies anyone who disagrees with the "fact", which is not a fact, is somehow impaired in their capacities of reason and understanding. I think you need to understand, and are perfectly capable of understanding, that people do have different wants and expectations, and that it is perfectly reasonable for fans to want a set that costs £400 that's the flagship of arguably one of the most adult orientated themes to not cater ONLY to kids. This set should also appeal to adult collectors and builders and MOCcers alike, and I feel the opinion that TLG haven't really even tried if this set turns out to be just another overpriced repackaging of the same old unrealistic mechanics we've had too many times already is valid. Some may like it, and that's great, but if the AFOL crowd is as small as some like to say, then they really should try to appeal to as many of them as they can with these very large and expensive sets that mostly only adults can afford. Of course you can disagree, but to expect everyone to pretend that such a set is just a kids toy and move on, and then do a purposely poor job of hiding your appearance of intellectual superiority over those that don't do as you suggest, that's not a good way to win an argument, and to use your words, is sneaky, and no one is falling for it. I could say a lot more on this but I've edited this comment enough already and it's time we moved on.

The Porsche also comes with 15459 (5x1 steering arm) in yellow, and there isn't really much reason for them to be yellow where they are used so I assume they are coming in the CAT bulldozer, maybe to allow the blade to tilt. Can be seen at 4:01 in this video

@functionalTechnic Thanks for posting the render, I can see now that the compressor is big enough.

Love it! At first I thought you were using those auto compressor thingies, where they have a separate, small auto compressor for each function (personally not a fan of those) but then I read your description and saw you did it much better, with one big compressor, which potentially has much better power and more realism. May I ask what compressor you are using? If I had to nitpick I'd say the compressor could perhaps be a bit bigger and the linkage for the bucket tilt could be tweaked to allow better mechanical advantage. Would also be nice to see the planetary reduction hubs from 42099 for that added touch. But besides that this is fantastic, authentic, powerful and looks like a lot of fun to play with, any critique I have is only to tweak what's already there. If this was a set it would be a day one purchase for me. Agreed. The advantage of the crank version over the geared version is that it has the effect of shrinking the valves dead zone (making the middle steps bigger) while giving slightly more fidelity to the valves working area (making the outer steps smaller), which translates to a slightly more linear response, as opposed to nothing.....nothing....nothing....fully open! It's only slight but small tweaks like that do add up.

You don't have to use the cover the pry the batteries out!

Well, the magenta piece is magenta, the wave selector is bright orange, the 16t gearbox gears are bright red and the axles and pins are all different colours. So yeah, there's lots of colour coding. But I do agree there's only so much you can make a set more accessible to inexperienced builders. But I think there are some good ways to help with that, like making the red gearbox gears double sided so they can't be installed backwards for example. Moulding some indicator on the parts, like the numbers they currently have moulded onto the different panels and angle connectors is also a good idea.

Yes it does have colour coding and funnily enough, the place that's worst for colour coding is the magenta piece and bright orange wave selector piece, so far from needing more colour coding, this is a case of the opposite, colour coding fails again! No, making parts bright ugly colours DOES NOT HELP nor call attention to anything when Lego is all brightly coloured pieces, and it doesn't help with part orientation either. Instead, a part like the wave selector would benefit from having a little raised arrow moulded onto it, or a little notch, something physical so that a little call out can be made to it in the instructions. Things such as these that can be called out in the instructions (and more numbered bags, the 1989 batmobile goes up to bag number 24) would work way better than just making the part a different ugly colour.

Does it calibrate at the start?

Or it's an example of how colour coding doesn't work!

You probably don't even need to sacrifice any of the few remaining good Lego cables. You could use this stuff I found on Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16AWG-28AWG-2-Core-UL-2468-Automotive-Auto-Stranded-Ribbon-Parallel-Wire-Cable-/401343208236 It looks like the 22 gauge has a width of 3.2mm, which is the same as the original Lego cable. It may not be original Lego cable, but you can use this stuff to repair the broken, existing cables you already have, you can make any length you want (up to how ever long the reel is, 30 meters!) and you wouldn't need to sacrifice an original cable. EDIT: I just ordered a 30 meter reel of 22 gauge for myself. It might take a while to arrive but I'll let you know how it goes!

Space is quite tight, except for maybe right behind the engines or somewhere in the cargo bay. I'm sure there's somewhere you could coil up the excess wire. If not, it is possible to shorten the wire. I'm pretty sure the wires are just pressed on to some metal spikes inside the plug, which itself can unclip apart. So you would just have to unclip the plug open, pull the wire of its metal spikes, clip the wire to length, press the wire firmly back down onto the spikes then clip the wire back together.

Good point and I did stop and think about that before posting. But then I thought....well....adult builders probably refers more to AFOLs than it does to adults who are not already fans of Lego, as they are not builders. I didn't think it that likely that an adult who is not already a fan of Lego (an AnonFOL?!) would jump into a $450 set without having quite some collection already. But you still might be right. Maybe it's more aimed towards that middle ground of AFOLs that have only small collections. I also thought that it might be aimed at AFOLs that like to build sets only, and not do any MOCcing. But then I thought that a big, boxey bulldozer with it's simple functionality is probably the easiest thing to MOC anyway. So who knows. Now I'm not a spiteful person. I always want to see Technic sets selling well. And I would like to see more love for powered up/control+. But when they over saturate the potential buyers with flagships that are only ever PU and nothing else, I'm not sure that's the best idea. A PU/LA driven thing might be more appealing to me (42100 was quite appealing to me) if that wasn't the only flagships we had for several years in a row now. If all you ever ate was ice-cream, eventually you will hate ice-cream. And PU/LA isn't a flavour I preferred to start with!

I don't know if I'm just over thinking it but it is quite annoying that they put pneumatics in ugly looking sets, then when they don't sell they'll say "Oh we would do more pneumatic sets but they don't sell that well!". I don't know if that's true at all, but as someone who really wants to see more pneumatic sets I do wish they would include them into more appealing sets. 42080 is actually a very good set despite it's ugly façade. It really deserved to look and sell a lot better than it did. Good fun build with a cool steering mechanism and very playable. But now the new valves are available on Lego bricks and pieces for 2 quid each. So of course I bought 10! Delivery is slow right now though.

IFAIK the 1:8 supercars aren't considered to be flagships because they are part of their own separate line of sets.

Ah yes, forgot that one, and the 20t clutch gear. Was thinking more about the flagships for each year.

So, apart from a parts recolour do you see anything new at all, any interesting new parts, anything I couldn't build already? At least there's one pneumatic set (pneumatics live one... YAAAAAAY!!!) but it seems they stuffed LAs in that one also, and no motor? And like 42080 they made it an ugly colour scheme to put people off buying a pneumatic set! Is the bulldozer really just another Control+/LA powered combo....again?! Did they really just make it three or four times more expensive than 8275 just to make it bigger and put control+ (removing the physical remote and a bore to MOC with) in it?! If so that's another flagship I won't be getting. Seriously what's the point of it? How can it be for adult builders when adult builders can already build this with the parts they have, only better because most adults will probably have a physical remote and buggy motors to play with. Oh, let me guess, the front blade automatically stays level when you tilt the model. Oh well that's worth the extra 300 quid isn't it!

Possibly, but what cool new parts would it use? Does the real one use standard gears or planetary gears? Yes but what cool new parts would that need, and does the real one use a subtractor mechanism?

Many flagships have some cool new parts that brings new functionality. 2020 flagship only had angular motor, but 2019 had control+ and much more as new parts, 2018 didn't have much, 2017 was.....2016 had the large quarter gear racks, 2015 had new pneumatics. So what really cool new parts could a bulldozer really need if it's just another PU/LA based thing?

Regardless of piece count and hub/motor count, if it's just the 2007 bulldozer but bigger and with PF swapped for PU then I don't see the value there. Bigger and licenced does not necessarily equal better or more valuable to those looking for a TECHNICal marvel. Bigger only opens the door to being better but that's all.

IIRC the inclusion of pneumatics didn't raise the price of 42043, or any pneumatic set, by that much. So I guess so yeah.

They don't seem to release any new part in large numbers upon release. Even a new type of connector peg only comes in very small numbers when first released. Maybe it takes a while to build the stock up a bit?