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@nerdsforprez Thank you

@Zerobricks haha yeah maybe. The poll indicates that people don't seem to mind the existence or idea of colour coding actually. Of the 44 that responded to the colour coding question, only 6 selected "colour coding if any kind is no good". The majority selected the two options that said colour coding looks too childish and garish. I think that's not necessarily a problem with colour coding being a thing, but the choice of colours used and how they are used. The Porsche could have the same amount of colour coding but if the colours chosen where less garish and childish looking, and if they didn't feel the need to differentiate left from right/ front from back, then I really do think there wouldn't be as many complaints about it. Maybe @XenoRad could clarify? @howitzer yeah, sorry about that. I posted it before it was ready by mistake . @Jim, is there a way to allow @howitzer to vote on questions he has yet to vote on? Regarding the logistics of parts management, wouldn't this lead to less colour coding as it's easier to manage fewer colours? In the Porsche there's the same part in two different colours to differentiate left from right if I'm not mistaken.

@Bublehead yes of course younger children build all kinds of multicoloured things and don't really care that much. But I'm not sure we should apply the same reasoning to every set including those meant for adults/18+ @nerdsforprez Yes, the RC question wasn't intended to directly answer the multiple motors Vs single motor + multifunction gearbox debate. It was intended to see what people think of RC sets as a whole, and of course value is a big part of that. I would have added a second RC question to answer that more directly but was limited to 10 questions. I had many more than 10. I bet some are thinking "thank God he was limited to only 10 stupid questions!" . In terms of the Poll being representative, of course it's a bit of fun for us on this website. And by allowing all the frustrations out here maybe it will lessen the complaints in other threads. But as small as the sample size may be, I've not been asked any if these questions by TLG, have you? It maybe the biggest sample they have for all I know! And as Eurobricks is probably the largest AFOL community on the net they might not get a bigger one! Or maybe you're right and the sample size really is too small for them to care. I really don't know. But the number of people that responded to the poll is now 50 as I write this. That's like, almost 51!

@Gray Gear yes but someone could technically argue that a set advertised as being for 18+ is not as advertised with all the colour coding, and is therefore a genuine complaint in their view. Someone could also argue that a function, though advertised as being present, was not ever actually advertised as working all that well, and is therefore just a preference in their view. Those aren't arguments I would necessarily agree with but now we're just arguing over word usage! A complaint is ultimately just a statement of disappoint in something (including too colourful, functions don't work), a preference is how you want something to be (less colour coding, functions to work). @nerdsforprez hmmmm, maybe. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to shut down opposing views with the whole preference Vs complaint thing. At worst maybe it's some weird form of confirmation bias? I don't know. Remember that the poll also shows the vast majority would prefer RC sets to be more mechanically interesting (complex/realistic) to match their price point. So does that mean stating said preference for mechanically superior RC sets is now elevated to being a valid complaint?

TBH I'm kinda lost on the whole preference Vs complaint thing. Aren't they just different words for what is essentially the same thing? I would prefer colour coding to be more tasteful and so I might complain that it's not tasteful. I would prefer the gearbox to work so I might complain when it doesn't work. It seems that if people happen to agree with any such statement then it's a valid complaint. But if they don't happen to agree with any such statement then it's just a preference and is therefore somehow less worthy of being said. Is it a sneaky way to shut down opinions not agreed with or am I missing something? BTW, with @grohl making so many designs for b-models I do regret not including an option to gauge the influence of that in the poll question regarding b-models. But it's too late to change it now many have voted already.

In fairness to @TeamThrifty it could be that many share the same views. The data from the poll results so far is looking very interesting and seems to back that up. So it could be that we are seeing the same complaints but from multiple different people. But that's ok, everyone should be allowed to express their views.

Thank you. Corrected Hmmmm, that's a good point. I get where you are coming from, but as votes have already been cast I probably shouldn't change the wording of it now.

I quite like this one. It has nicely geared up propellers, working steering wheel, a good amount of moving things given it's price point, mechanical variety (again relative to it's price point) with both linkage and geared mechanisms. Would have been better if the fan guard didn't also rotate but overall not bad

Poll is now ready to vote. I wanted to also ask about licencing but ran out of questions

@TeamThrifty So you complain that people aren't allowed to have a different opinion (despite this whole topic encouraging exactly that) and then you complain when people complain which is basically just having a different opinion than you. Then you complain about people being snowflakes and using emotive language while you yourself fill a post with emotive language basically being a snowflake. Like seriously, how are we supposed to have an adult conversation when you yourself can't even stick to your own rules? Have any opinion you want, I really don't care, but pick a side man. And how is TLG supposed to gleam any insight from forums like this when you keep posting complaint after complaint about other people's complaints? You are being exactly what you say you're against.

Looks like I need to add a few more questions when I finally get time to do the poll which should be tonight. Regarding the amount of complaining, surely it's to be somewhat expected as you can't please everyone. The closest anyone got to that was with the Arocs but even that isn't without some complaining. We all have different tastes, but I do agree that complaints in general should be more constructive. Instead of "this sucks" it would be better to have "It would be better if...."

No worries, I shall add a poll to this topic soon.

@NKubate I would love to know more about the specific parameters that designers have to work in. I know the basic ones like, it has to be safe and all that, but specifically (if you are allowed to share of course). What requests or demands have you seen in these forums are completely unrealistic? I remember one wish I had, and that was for motorised large models to move much more smoothly. It always annoyed me just a little when wheels would stop momentarily then jerk forward with every obstacle they hit. So I wanted silky smooth, jerk free movement as if the gears and axles were made of steel. But Lego is plastic, it will always be jerky right? So surely to want that silky smooth jerk free movement is an unrealistic expectation right? Turns out not so. With the new planetary reduction hubs from 42099 we can now have exactly that. And in any vehicle that uses planetary final drives like bulldozers, excavators, most heavy duty trucks and so on they are mechanically authentic also. Big well done to whoever designed that piece. So I think what can seem like an unrealistic expectation today can be a reality tomorrow with the right new parts. But is there anything (like for example presumably hydraulics) that will always be an unrealistic expectation, and therefore to continuously ask for them is basically just useless whining?

I really like how, despite it's weight, the movement is so smooth, the wheels don't stop or wobble about at all when they hit an obstacle. It just continues on like it's made of steel.

@TeamThrifty don't get me wrong, it's fine to disagree. I started this topic so we could disagree and hear all views. But you appeared to compare those that disagree to those that can't do anything for themselves which I felt was belittling. Maybe I misunderstood you? I don't think anyone is asking for a display diecast model that just sits in a shelf. I'm not sure why you mention that. Indeed creator expert (or whatever it is now) would be better for that. But if someone is going to spend lots of money on a premium Technic supercar I think it's only fair for them to expect the functions to work correctly. They did fix the suspension with the Sian but they replaced that issue with the issue of horrible and cheap looking colour inconsistencies. Now how are we supposed to fix that ourselves as you suggest when TLG don't make parts in consistent colours anymore? Just because someone can fix a puncture, why should they have to on a brand new tyre? In the same way why should we have to redesign their suspension and overly complicated gearboxes to work correctly. The Sian gearbox has enough friction to break gears if you push it too hard, this shouldn't be the case and doesn't have to be the case if they would make them more realistic. You might enjoy that process of problem solving that which should already have been fixed but not everyone does. You might view sets only as starting points but again, not everyone does. Having the option to MOC is fantastic but being forced to MOC shouldn't be considered a selling point for premium sets. Of course I'd like you to share why you disagree with me or anyone else. You say people need to be more realistic, ok cool but then say what people have asked of Lego that is unrealistic, bearing in mind that no-one has asked for perfection.

While the osprey could have been used for non-military purposes, I think the issue for its detractors was that it was mainly only ever used for military purposes. I don't agree with that as the Lego version was clearly a rescue version but whatever. I'm guessing the Zetros had a lot more use outside the military than the osprey so it's not as much of an issue.

@TeamThrifty If you think Technic is fine the way it is then I'm happy for you. But there's no need to belittle those that can see room for improvement, or areas where they feel they are going down the wrong path. Many of us are life long Technic fans and it would be foolish to tell them to move on to another hobby for what we see as issues that are easily fixable by TLG. I gather you don't see any issues and again, that's fine, but not everyone has the same opinions you do. And again, it is in no way entitled or self centered to say what we like or dislike about where Technic is currently at. And whilst I also lament the decline in basic skills like repairing punctures or changing plugs amongst the adult population I'm not sure what relevance that has here. I shall assume you're not saying that tyre manufacturers should be allowed to sell tyres with punctures in them just because adults should know how to repair them, as that would just be silly of you. And no, we don't expect it to be perfect as nothing ever is. But if they are going to tell me as an adult Technic fan that "We have developed this set for adult fans like you, and we hope it sells well, so you will buy it for £400" why shouldn't I be able to say "well no actually. I don't think this is for me because of X,y and z"? Why can't we have this conversation which for all either of us know is helpful to them. I know they have listened to us, and I think they have done well by trying to cater to adult fans as they seem to be upping their adult product every year. So why should we suddenly become silent now?

Haha, love the humour in this one. Those batteries do work really well! I've been holding off buying new rechargeable batteries until rechargeable lithium aa's becomes more available but these look like a very tempting alternative.

I heard in an interview that the designers really didn't like the term "colour vomit" which is why I immediately switched to using the term "colour coding". And believe it or not I'm actually fine with colour coding, it looks more interesting than just all dark grey and it helps a little with finding parts (although more numbered bags is far better, and as for rebuilding sets, sort your parts!). But what I don't like is the choice of colours used. An 18+ set really doesn't feel like an 18+ set when gears are bright red or blue or the wave selector is bright orange. These could be done in far more tasteful and realistic colours, of which there are many to choose from such as black, dark grey, light grey, gun metal grey, and I could even convince myself that even brown or tan could look like rust or dirty oil. That to me would be colour coding. But with all these bright goofy colours I have to say it's closer to colour vomit. There was a comment that the Ferarri was too simple, and the Chiron seemed too complicated with too many functions, and another comment by @Bublehead about yet another car with steering, suspention, working gears and so on. Well the cars do sell very well, so expect to see more of them. And there's only so many functions a car can have. So what should they do? Keep releasing cars if that's what sells of course, but keep things interesting. To solve the too simple Vs too complicated, I've said this many times, but they need to make it like a real gearbox (which is far simpler and easier to understand than the Chiron or lambo gearbox) with only two main shafts, reduce the gear>drive ring>gear stack from 5 studs long to 3 studs long (yes that is possible btw) and all the different sized gears needed to make all the different ratios. They can make it more accessible by moulding a number on each gear (like the numbers on panels) that corresponds to their number of teeth, which the instructions can clearly and directly call out to to avoid any confusion. Brightly coloured parts do not stand out in a set/pile of brightly coloured parts. We still see many mistakes happening and it only spoils the illusion of "building for real". They could also have more realistic steering geometry and choose cars that have different functionality. We have had 3 1:8 cars in a row, all with paddle shifters. So what about a good ol' stick shift for the next one, but with a more realistic linkage instead of the gear stick going directly into drive rings? Or an old classic with pop up head lights? Or a transverse engined rally car with full gearbox? This would be much easier to do with a realistic gearbox like I mentioned earlier. The gearboxes of the Chiron and Sian are a good portion of the entire length and width of the whole car! Or what about adjustable seats? Or an engine with working valves and cam shafts? There is lots more they could do. With regards to PU and MOCcing, it is rather powerful and opens up lots of new possibilities for our MOCs, however I see two main issues. Firstly, a severe lack of documentation/video tutorials or whatever. This is why I started the PU hints, tips and requests thread. It's slightly concerning to me that TLG appear to think it's the job of the fan community to make their product usable though! The second issue is reliance on smart phones. While smart phones can add something of value with feedback (like dials and battery indication and completely custom control layouts) I think the issue of total reliance on smart phones and tablets is potentially a real issue and can be best solved by increased compatibility with other devices like pc/laptop for coding and third party physical controllers (like the play station controllers) for control. The combination of pc/laptop compatibility and third party controllers offers a pathway to fully customisable PU without the need for a smartphone or tablet. With regards to specialised pieces, sure Lego needs to maintain its "legoness" with its wide selection of standard parts, but real world things are mostly made up of specialised parts and they can really add a lot to a set, so I have no problem with them. They are realistic after all. There was another comment regarding the high prices of Lego sets encroaching on far more realistic looking die cast models and so on, where Lego could never compete. That is a good point and I would argue that there is one area where Technic can rise above all, and that is in being able to quickly and easily build working realistic mechanisms for a price that might seem high but is accessible. This is the true and unrivalled strength of Technic. Take the Arocs for example. Now you can get a model that has similar mechanical realism, moreso in fact as it's hydraulic, but that is big money, £3k or more. In terms of a model, build able or otherwise, that is mechanically realistic, sets like the Arocs has no competition anywhere near its price point. And I think this is also true for sets that aren't really aimed at me like the Liebherr. It may be mechanically unrealistic but I can't think of any competitor product that competes with it, but that's only true for a buildable model. If you include non buildable RC toys then it has lots of cheaper competition. So while Technic may have some issues among the adult fan community, I don't think anything is broken to the point of being irreparable and we can think of many solutions. The question is, are they interested?

I agree that a planetary drive would be very good for the CAT. They could use the ones from 42099. Unless it's pneumatic I'm not sure what new parts it really needs.

Thanks so much for all the comments guys, it's very insightful. It would appear that many do agree with me while others question the need to argue these points, when Lego will do whatever they feel makes them the most profit regardless of what we think. That's a very fair question and to try to answer that, I'd say it's like commenting/reviewing/critiquing the movies you have watched. We all have our different opinions on the movies, and to want to share them with your mates is only natural (and in no way self centered!). If Hollywood would release nothing but kids movies you can bet many adults would be complaining and suggesting what they think would make for a better movie, and would be quite right to suggest they make more movies for adults to enjoy and that way they would make more money. It's the same for Lego. Yes Lego is a toy company, but there are two reasons why that is not a useful statement. A, it is a company that's actively seeking to grow its adult fan base, and B, it is a company that's actively seeking to grow its adult fan base. I know that looks like one reason, but I thought it such a big reason I thought I'd mention it twice! (Thanks Kryten!) We can help them by saying what we adults want from them. Sometimes they might not enjoy reading some of the negative feedback, which is understandable. But would it be any better for them if we all were silent and eurobricks and all the other forums and fan sites didn't exist? We all have a need to express our views and they have a use for that also. As long as the comments aren't just "that sucks" and the critisisms are considered and constructive then it's mutually beneficial for us to say what we adult fans want and don't want from them.

The ability to measure speed by inputting the gear ratio and wheel diameter sounds really cool! As you are already planning to measure things like current, voltage, rpm and so on, is there a possibility to display total power in watts or something?

[TIP] 2 wheel steer, 4 wheel steer and crab steering modes for a 2 axle vehicle. This code is based on a test rig I quickly put together. It doesn't have suspension and is rather crude (albeit quite powerful), but it serves the purpose. It has 4 L-motors in total, 2 for drive and 1 to steer each axle, note the blue letters on the picture below to see which ports they are plugged into. The control scheme looks like this: You don't need all the dials, but I just like lots of dials! The Black horizontal slider is set NOT to return to centre and is to select between Crab steering, 2 wheel steering and 4 wheel steering. The other 2 grey slider are set to return to centre. And here is the code: To "operate" or play with, just use the horizontal and vertical sliders as usual to drive the vehicle. Note that you may need to unlock, then lock the control screen to reset (this seems to clear some bug with the calibration). The black horizontal slider allows you to select between the steering modes and can be moved on the fly while driving, and is also infinitely adjustable in case you want the rear axle to only have a small amount of steering. Some notes to explain the code. Starting at the top left we have the steering motor for the front axle connected to port D, being controlled by slider 1, which is the main steering control. You may notice I have a 0.75 multiplier. This is to prevent the servo motor from reaching it's maximum limit. It's kind of like a safety to prevent stress. The next code block down controls the steering of the rear axle. So this time we have the steering motor on the rear axle plugged into port C and is also being controlled by the main steering control slider 1. This is then multiplied by the same 0.75 safety margin. This is then multiplied by the position of slider 3. Slider 3 is the steering mode selector and you may notice that is has a 0.01 multiplier. This is to convert the standard range of a slider from -100 to 100, to -1 to 1. On one of the drive motor code blocks you may notice a -1 multiplier. This is to change its direction of rotation. The 2 dial code blocks below that are taking/measuring the speed from the two drive motors. Dial 4 is measuring the speed of the motor connected to port B through a -1 multiplier to account for it's reversed direction, and dial 2 is measuring the speed of the motor connected to port A. It's pretty cool that by doing this you get the actual speed of the motors, and not just a representation of the throttle position. Below that are the two dials that measure the turning angle of both axles. Dial 5 is measuring the angle of the motor connected to port D, and dial 6 is measuring the angle of the motor connected to port C. To both of these I added a "+100" to centre the dial, and a divide by 2 to suit the dials range of motion. Note that the small green blocks used to capture the motors speed and angles for the dials look similar, but they are not the same. There are 2 different blocks used for capturing the speed of a motor and the angle of a servo.

Agree with this.

Hmmmm, the parts you have selected are already pretty good IMHO, and I can see how and why they were created, and even the choice of colour coding is quite tasteful on these parts, so I don't really have any questions about them in particular. But if I may ask.... I know you try to use existing elements as much as possible when you make new models, but for adult collectors who already have all the elements and can build new sets from instructions posted online, is there ever any consideration given to making a new element just because it would be really cool to have? If you (the element designer) could design any new element you wanted, what would it be? What new elements do you think would be most welcomed by the fan community?