Deathleech

Ya, I agree. I am sure one polybag will be a main character that appears the exactly the same as s/he does in another set being released this wave (like Gandalf and Frodo previously), and then maybe if we are lucky an army builder of sorts with mixed and matched pieces like the Mirkwood Elf. I also would like to see a Mordor Orc polybag, though an Undead or Corsair one would be amazing. I'm not holding out for either though

Maybe you could use two rulers, sliding one along the other to get a picture of the nature of this difference. If you slide one ruler back 3 inches, and one ruler ahead 2 inches what is the maximum difference you have between the two? Is it 2.6 inches or 5 inches? I think Str0ngbad explains my point of view and the difference of wording we are having here if you care to read his post for further explanation. Which Castle sets are you talking about? I thought one might be MMV, but I double checked and it's 12+ and even that has a ton more detail than these Castle sets. Most of the Castle themes seem to top out at 12 or 14, I didn't see any 14+. Regardless, whatever the sets may be they aren't directly related to this Castle line, other than being from the same theme. The Blue Lion and Red Dragons have not been used before and the average recommended age on past sets seems to be slightly higher at 7-12. I don't think it's besides the point because it shows Lego obviously feels some themes are more catered towards adults and older teens than others if they are willing to release expensive, thousand piece sets aimed at older teens as the minimum age rec. Just look at the SW theme, they have the USC X-Wing and some others that are recommended for 16+. Fine with me. I'm just pointing out that the LotR line has a higher recommended age, on top of this new Castle theme having a lower one. I'm not just focusing on the 2.5 max years like you and Aanchir. I am looking at the total age difference at both ends of the spectrum.

Do you understand what constructive criticism actually is? Just because the set isn't huge and doesn't include everything you want doesn't make it crap. He purposely scaled the set down and excluded some of the less important parts to make it fit a price point similar to actual Lego sets. Saying the set looks like crap and trash doesn't tell us why you dislike it at all, its just being rude. Saying you think it's too small and doesn't include enough locations such as the house of healing and market are more constructive. Sorry I saw the set and thought it looked mostly fine, I didnt know I was suppose to be able to read your mind and know exactly what was wrong when you said it looked like trash. It's not that your standards are way above ours, its that you are being unrealistic. You even said yourself you would want Lego to make a $750+ set, but are well aware they won't. Rather than bash other people's hard work (that looks great to a number of people), maybe your energy would be better spent making your own Minas Tirith MOC.

It's give or take 2.5 years, yes. There is a 5 year difference though (2 minimum, 3 maximum). Castle covers ages 5-12 and LotR covers ages 8-14 so how is that only 2.5 years? The minimum age for Castle is 5 year olds, 6 year olds, and 7 year olds which LotR does not go down to while the maximum age for LotR is 8-14 (well technically 14+) which covers kids that are 13 and 14 which Castle does not. I understand what you are saying, but 5, 6, and 7 year olds do not cancel out 13 and 14 year olds.

Str0ngbad and Flitwick bring up great points. Most people love Nuju's Minas Tirith because it still has the iconic look and features of the white city. Sure it doesn't have things like the markets or house of healing, but most people would rather NOT have these things to keep the price down. You say they are important, but to the vast majority of people they are relatively minor parts of the city and in fact they feel the Glittering Caves and Great Hall in Helm's Deep are FAR more important. Yet Lego did not include those. I know it's just your opinion, but you came off as very rude when you initially commented on Nuju's MOC. You didn't really provide constructive criticism at all in your initial post(s), you just said it was crap and trash and you would never buy it. I felt like this was unfair as many people would LOVE a Minas Tirith like that, myself included, and I thought Nuju deserved a little more respect for all his hard work he obviously put into it. It's apparent now you want a lot more in your Minas Tirith city than most would, and that's fine. You seem well aware Lego will never meet your expectations due to the sheer size. Luckily for you you can MOC your own and choose not to buy a Minas Tirith if it's ever released. Just please don't wish it never get made, the vast majority of people would love a smaller set (in relative terms) like that. Heck, it would even be a great starting point to mod, or supply a ton of good pieces for your own Minas Tirith MOC. Lastly I know everyone has their issues with the Lego LotR line, but you seem to complain a lot about it so I think Flitwick is right when he says you should really consider if this is the hobby for you.

Are you for real? Here is Helm's Deep, here is Lego's version. You complain about the size of the walls in the Minas Tirith Cuusoo set, yet the Helm's Deep walls from the movie are roughly ten times the height of a normal sized man. The Lego version? Not even THREE minifigures tall. The Lego version also has no rock backing, the path to the front gate looks like a minifig could jump on it at the highest point, and the actual keep is hundreds of feet tall in the movie where as the Lego version is only several minifigures tall. I think you are being a little bias here, the Lego Helm's Deep obviously suffers from the exact same problems the Minas Tirith Cuusoo set does. So you want Lego to make 3 sets for one location, equaling $750? You do realize this is never EVER going to happen and is just wishful thinking, right? The biggest Star Wars sets are at the $400 mark and that's for a super successful, long standing theme. You want Lego to basically double that for a group of LotR sets to represent Minas Tirith? I would hate to be you, you are going to be severely disappointed if a Minas Tirith set does come out...

As was I Regardless I don't think the age recommendation is all that important, nor a huge indicator of things as I hinted at previously. I just think it's something to take into consideration. Like I said before, most sets have a recommended age that caps out in the teens, yet look how many AFOLS are well past that age still buy Lego. Plus most sets even within the same theme have varying age recommendations. Look at the first LotR wave for example. The smallest sets are 8-14, then as the sets get bigger the lowest age recommendation goes up until it's 10-14 on Helm's Deep. The Castle sets do the same, starting at 5-12 on the smallest sets and creeping up to 7-12. I suppose you could get really technical and add up all the age recommendations for each set and then compare the two themes, but meh. And at any rate, where does the 14+ cap off on Orthanc?

How so?

Orthanc would make a great Christmas present for kids. Also, what do you have against that Minas Tirith Nuju made? You have yet to give any actual constructive criticism and instead just keep saying it's crap, trash, etc (you did this in his thread too). The fact you would rather have a wall and gate and Grond seems kind of silly because that's nothing like a Minas Tirith set should be, that's Grond with a gate.

Exactly! Alcarin, it seems like you are expecting some Death Star sized model or bigger. I seriously doubt Lego will devote the time or money to something that big for any other theme than Star Wars. The model Nuju made has lots of play features, still looks instantly recognizable as Minas Tirith, and is a fairly cheap price point for what you get. Is it perfect? No, I think he could of put the Fel Beast and trebuchets (Gondor/Mordor battle pack?) in another set to lower the piece count and price. That would free up some pieces to make the bottom wall taller. I think his MOC could also use some white detail bricks throughout and more gray at the base. I would hardly say it looks like "crap" or a "waste" though, far from the contrary. It's a very functional set. If you want some $1000 set like the MOCs people build nothing is stopping you from getting the pieces and making it yourself. For everyone else and kids, this set would be perfectly suitable. Again, you have to remember Lego is aimed mostly at kids. You aren't going to get everything YOU want such as mass battle packs and only 1 of each main character throughout the entire line with 500 dollar mega sets. That's just unreasonable.

Are you sure about that? Look at the King's outfit in the King's Castle picture. It appears much darker than the blue on the rest of the soldiers and on the castle. I suppose, but at the time we didn't have any amazing (official) Lego models like Helm's Deep to compare it to. Now, in comparison, the King's Castle looks so much more bland and plain without as many details. License sets may demand more intricacies, but Lego still could of used more detail bricks in the walls of King's Castle and some here and there throughout the sets to spice them up. Maybe this Castle line is no different than previous Castle ones, but Lego has set the bar high with the LotR sets so fans expect that same detail to carry over to ALL Lego product. It's hard to look at something they reverted in design and be excited about it. I think this is another example of how Lego is marketing these more towards younger kinds too since they sacrifice detail in place of large molded pieces. The sets appear larger and more complete but at the expense of cosmetics. Some may argue this is better (we get a fully enclosed castles rather than only the front halves), others could see it as negative (it's more castle but doesn't look near as good). At any rate I agree LotR isn't designed specifically for AFOLS nor this Castle theme at kids, I just think they lean more towards those groups than is otherwise the norm. I have held that view since the beginning. If the Castle line is recommended ages 5-12 and LotR is 8-14, that's 5 years. Castle has a recommended age of 3 years less than LotR's minimum, and LotR has a maximum of 2 more years than Castle. 3+2=5. Of course you could argue some of the new Castle sets have a higher minimum age than 5, but you could also argue Orthanc is a minimum of 14 years.

The only problem with that is it would look incredibly out of place next to most of the sets Lego has already released. It would just be too big, a Mumakil that big would totally dwarf Helm's Deep. If you look at the triceratpos and smaller t-rex set from the dino theme neither is above $80 and they both include a large molded dino on top of a huge vehicle (the platform would not beed to be near that big). Because of this I can't imagine Lego making an Oliphant set that is more than $60. I imagine them using a mold similar to the normal elephant they have already released, maybe slightly bigger and with the markings and a different head.

Ahh you are right, I totally forgot about that and was thinking Pelennor Fields. Like Fives points out, the Oliphants are a little more memorable there (though I agree the Legolas taking one down was too over the top for my likings, but I am sure kids eat it up). I was thinking another set Sam could be in is a Mount Doom set with Frodo, Gollum, Samwise and maybe even another Eagle. It would be a good way to reuse that Eagle mold at any rate. That's pretty much exactly how I picture Lego doing the Oliphant as well. A big molded Oliphant with the brick built component being the platform on the back. They could even make it into a $30 battle pack of sorts and include 2 Haradrim grunts, the Chief steering, and then 2 Rohan on horses. I am not sure Lego will do another battle pack style set with Rohan though.

I think it more likely they would have Denethor, Faramir, and Gondor clothed Pippin in one set, and then Merry, Gothmog, Eomyn, and the Witch King in another. I say that because Faramir is never shown fighting the Mumakil or even apart of the Pelennor Fields battle. Gothmog could go either way, but since he comes after Eowyn once the Witch King dies I think he would do better in this set. Then again the Witch King could be with Denethor and company to depict the scene where he faces Gandalf the White. There are a lot of possibilities for all the characters. I think a Mumakil set would have Legolas for sure.

If this theme isn't targeted solely at kids that means Lego failed big time with it. If these sets don't really appeal to most AFOLs then that means either one of two things happened. A) Lego did a really poor job of making these sets appeal to AFOLS or B) they weren't intended for AFOLS in the first place and were aimed more at kids. If you read through this thread it seems the vast majority of people(AFOLS) are not a fan of these sets so which seems more likely? To me these sets seem like they are clearly aimed at the younger crowd. They have extremely bright colors with their reds, blues, and green (even more so than past castle themes, look at the blue on the Lions compared to say the darker blue on the Black Falcons). The blue is almost like a slightly darker sky blue and is super saturated. Then there is the amount of detail which seems much lower in the Castle theme. The King's Castle has a detail brick at the base, the large slopes on the sides, and then a few bricks at the top but for the vast majority of the wall section it is made up a single molded piece. Sure some wall sections are all brick built, like the exploding wall piece or ones that have different window shapes, but a lot seem to use the single molded piece. The towers are only made up of two pieces per section not including the top or bottom or windows. Compare that to Helm's Deep which literally uses bricks for the entire build with no large pieces other than the base and single slim tower, and it's easy to see the amount of detail difference between the two. Just compare the hi-res pictures of Helm's Deep to that of the King's Castle and the level of detail is not even in the same ball park... As for the age recommendations, I never really took them to seriously. They are just recommendations after all. Tons of AFOLS buy themes like City, SW, LotR, etc. and they are 20+ year old people despite most of these sets being listed in the 6-14 age range. 5-12 vs 8-14 is a pretty big gap though. That's a difference of 5 years. Add in Orthanc which is listed as 14+ and ya, I think that is a fairly significant difference only further showing LotR is aimed more at adults/AFOLs then your normal Lego set. Also remember the LotR films are rated PG-13 and do have some violence that can get somewhat graphic with orc heads and limbs getting chopped off (though not near as bad as some of the stuff in Game of Thrones). Unlike the Lego age recommendations, I think movie ones hold a little more weight. The absolute top age rating for the LotR sets is the minimum age recommendation to see the films they are based on. Now, with all that said I DO think LotR is still marketed towards kids. Look at all the launching pieces, completely random catapults and flick fire missiles (in Weathertop... really?), and exploding parts in the sets. I just think it also has a large AFOL following and Lego knows that so they try to make the sets also appeal to them a little more than they otherwise would with a different line. All Lego sets are marketed towards younger kids, but this Castle theme seems soleyl marketed towards them while LotR seems marketed towards young kids, slightly older kids and AFOLS with the emphasis still on kids.

It looks like it's colored in with a yellow Sharpie marker.

I always imagined it being released similar to the Helm's Deep set. Lego might include the Citadel and part of a wall as the main $130-150 dollar set, then make a separate $30 wall/army builder add on set with a couple Gondor soldiers and Orcs with catapult. That or maybe they will do it in two larger sets, one has the gate and has an orc or Rohan soldier, Eowyn, Theoden, Merry, Gothmog, and the With King on Fel Beast and is the bottom level with the gate for $80. Then they could release an upper level of the city and the citadel with the white tree, Denethor, Pippin, Faramir, Gandalf the White on Shadowfax, a Gondor Guard or two, and a regular Gondor soldier for $100-130. Those who want/can afford the whole city can buy both and combine them. This would still leave the smaller sets open too for iconic scenes not yet done, such as Treebeard and the Balrog in $40-60 range sets. Either way I really hope they don't pass it up simply because it's a big set. I do have a hard time seeing Lego releasing another huge D2C set next year after we just got Orthanc this year. If they do pass on Minas Tirith, maybe they will do Osgiliath at the least? I have hopes that since Gondor hasn't been covered at all, we will at least get 2-3 sets dedicated to it next wave, kind of like the first wave had a couple sets dedicated to Rohan/Helm's Deep.

Yes I do still hold that opinion. Just look at the first season centering around Daenerys, she is wandering around the middle of the desert with the Dothraki. How is Lego going to make sets out of this, or the Nights Watch when they head north? Are they going to make tents with minifigures and that's it? Of course like you point out, Lego could do tons of smaller sets, I just don't think they would be that interesting. No offense, but most of what you are proposing is just existing Castle sets with characters from Game of Thrones instead of generic castle figures. I don't really want a Black Watch recruit cart or forest ambush because the actual builds aren't that interesting or different from what we currently get in the Castle theme, just the minifigures would be different. A tourney ground with King Robert and Loras Tyrell vs The Mountain is basically just the joust set with the generic knights and king replaced. More interesting sets that are actually distinct to Game of Thrones would be ones like the Godswood tree or the pyre like you mentioned. THESE would be smaller sets that interest me. Unfortunately I don't think there are enough of them, or at least not enough appropriate ones. If Lego were ever to pay the money for a theme I feel it should offer something really new and unique for Lego to create sets based on, not generic locations and settings. Otherwise why bother even getting the license? That's just my opinion. Of course this is totally a moot point since Lego will never buy the license for other reasons.

Alcarin, I completely agree with you that I would rather see more generic soldiers than rehashes of the Fellowship. You have to remember Lego isn't catering to us AFOLs though, this is a CHILDREN'S toy that is focused on them first and foremost. Not every 10 year old is going to have 350-400 bucks per wave to buy every single set released. They need to have options to get Gimli or Aragorn in a few sets in case they only buy one or two from a wave. You also have to think of people that get into this theme several months from now when some of the older sets are no longer available. They too need some options for picking up the Fellowship beyond just buying the first wave off the secondary market. I think the key is to sprinkle in main characters without going overboard while also offering a good number of soldier types in each wave. So far it seems Lego is doing this extremely well. We only will have 1-2 of most the characters after the second wave hits, and at most 3-4 of some. Wanting to have the Uruk-hai outnumber the good guys 10 to 2 like in the films is a little unrealistic in Lego sets. That means Helm's Deep would need 20 Uruk-hai if it had just Aragorn, Theoden, Haldir, and Gimli. If you buy one of every set after the second LotR wave hits, and use your orcs from the Hobbit wave, you actually will have a pretty good sized army already without even needing to BrickLink or buy extra of any set. You would have Lurtz, a Uruk-hai Bezerker, 10 Uruk-hai (2 White Hand armor), 2 Moria Goblins, and 11 Mordor Orcs/Hobbit Orcs/Goblins. That's 25 orcs to face the good guys and doesn't even include any extras.

Even the GoT episodes that show no nudity or sex are still rated MA. Lord of the Rings is only PG-13. Maybe a single breast isn't that bad, but rampant incest, sex, maiming, and rape are a little much for Lego's target audience. Add in all the other violence and ya, GoT will never ever be a theme Lego picks up. LotR on the other hand only has some killing, which at it's worst is still pretty tame compared to the stuff that happens in GoT. As for your 2013 Castle/GoT set comparisons, I think that kind of demonstrates another point. If I am going to buy a GoT based set I want it to depict something fun and exciting that is distinct from the show, I don't want a mundane cart with GoT minifigures, or a bunch of GoT minifigures and a small tree. That;s exactly what you did too, you took a Lego set and removed the generic characters and put in GoT characters. I mean those are little more than glorified figure packs. Sure they could make anything from GoT into a set that fills any price point, but that's doesn't mean it's very interesting. This is almost something I think then Lego designers have had trouble doing with LotR too, there are tons of places to make sets out of but most of the interesting and distinct ones require huge $100+ sets to do them justice.

The Corsair Ship is not a bad set at all, it just should have been released in a much later wave. Release it in wave 5 or 6 and people would love to have something a little different than the rest of the LotR sets (which are mostly castles or buildings) with a pirate ship. Release it in wave 2 before we have anything Gondor related or any of the other more important scenes covered? Not near as cool. I mean most people would rather get Minas Tirith, which is featured throughout all of the RotK film rather than the Corsair ship which literally has under 5 minutes of air time. It would be like releasing a Robin set and holding off on releasing Batman ones for the Super Heros line. Well in Lego's defense Helm's Deep needs some good characters included in the set. It's not like they could just released 8 Uruk-hai and Aragorn. I think 4 Uruk-hai was a very good number considering you get Theoden and Haldir on top of a few main characters. If you buy one of every set from wave 1 you are left with 9 Uruk-hai and 2 Mordor Orcs total which isn't bad at all. Well considering it's a $100 set I don't think Lego really planned on using it as an army builder. I mean even if it included nothing but Corsair, Undead, and Orcs it's still not going to appeal to many people as an army builder type of set just due to it's high cost. These big sets need to have some of the main characters included because it might be the only set a kid is getting from the wave and they can't just have all army builders in it. I am fine if a wave only have 1-2 main characters being re-used, any more though and it starts getting ridiculous. Gimli could of probably been left out of the Corsair Ship, but as others have mentioned he prolly won't be included in many/any future sets so if that's the case it's fine.

Very cool. So the technic creature isn't meant to resemble anything in particular, like a bear or wolf, just a bunch of gears and technic pieces?

Ya, he meant all three designers are big fans of Tolkien/LotR.

Sorry if my point wasn't very clear. I wasn't complaining about a lack of variety in GoT, but the size of the sets that would need to be made. Most are huge castles or outdoor landscapes which Lego really seems to struggle with when making into sets that fit certain price points. I mean look at LotR, even there they seem to have some trouble making sets that please fans. Mines of Moria, Attack of the Wargs, and Weathertop come to mind in particular because they are either ridiculously scaled down, or they only feature part of a location and don't feel "complete" to a lot of people. Most of GoT castles are as big as LotR ones or bigger, and a lot of stuff takes place outside (in forest or baren tundra/mountains). I mean sure Lego could make like a small tower, or a small piece of the great wall, but I think a lot of fans would feel let down. Then add in the fact the theme is so dark and it's pretty much a given Lego will never do a GoT theme.

It's actually even less than that at $30 I believe? Both Arwen and Elron look great in my opinion, and I would rather have Arwen in her dress than not at all. With that said I do kind of wish either Frodo and Gimli would of been replaced with something more interesting. Another Boromir perhaps? Of course I totally understand why Lego did it. Gimli, despite being in several sets, has only been available in expensive ones thus far (all $80+), and the main character Frodo wouldn't of even been in this wave if not for his inclusion in the council of Elrond set (where he also plays an important role). A different print for Frodo or Gimli, at the least, would of been nice but I can't fault Lego for not doing it. I mean the Frodo print has only appeared one other time and that's closer to the clothing he has during the actual council anyways.