dimc

Here's an interesting thread (if you are OK with visiting reddit) from presumably some native people (though it's the internet, so who knows for certain) discussing representation in the CMF line:

That's a good question, and without a lot of thought, I don't know yet. I think one area would be to work with natives from whichever area to make things consistent and culturally accurate. I think, oddly, one good example (in one way) is the Western set Rapid River Village. It's entirely focused on the natives, and while I suspect they have badly mixed and matched native cultures to make it, it is a solid idea to have a village with play options. Enchanted Island suffers a bit here because it has pirates (though I do understand why they did that), but an accurate depiction of a Caribbean or western village, or hunting group, or exploration group would work for me. In fact, as I look at the poorly-named Indians theme, all of the sets actually only portray the natives. There's no conflict with the cavalry. So props to Lego on that, even if they completely hashed the rest of it.

The thing is, none of this stands alone. It's not that we think "OK because of this Lego theme, natives are seen as inferior." It's combined with the same underlying message in so many other media. Movies, books, tv shows, media appearances by (especially) politicians and others who don't know better. And it's not the most offensive thing out there, of course, but Lego, a company that is typically pretty good as far as what they produce, is likely aware of it now and as such probably won't produce it again. Little things add up over time, and reinforce what may be in your head. I never had any Islanders as a kid so I don't have the same old memories of it, and I don't remember what I thought as a kid other than "ooh new pirates theme" but I definitely learned about how colonists (and then Americans) brought "civilization" to the natives of the midwest and west. The whitewashing of history in public schools is frankly awful. So instead of having a theme that subtly reinforces that idea, they can work on making a better representation (if they choose to make one at all, which, given how it might go, I have doubts).

I highly doubt Lego intended this; it was a common idea at the time (and for hundreds of years prior). But you don't have to intend to do harm to actually do it, and this is why we aren't likely to see a remake of Islanders. We are more knowledgeable now, and as such, should apply that and make better toys. There's also a large component of "European culture is superior" when the natives are depicted with spears and bows and wearing leaves, and having much more primitive-looking buildings, vs the ships and forts and guns and swords and armor. As @Alexandrina mentioned, the "enlightening" of the savages was a very common topic of discussion (and action) in this era, and if the "noble savages" had anything to teach European cultures. Which is of course absent from the playsets; kids wouldn't understand, nor be interested. The harm visited upon natives, especially in the Americas, in the name of enlightenment ranges from forced schooling to abduction to forced religious conversion to outright murder, verging on genocide. See news of Canada's residential schools in the past few years for modern examples; the USA can provide entire books worth if you want some depressing reading. For the same reason, you likely won't see indigenous Americans depicted in the same way in any remakes of Western sets. Cavalry vs outlaws might work, but we'll see. If you're interested in reading more about this, I recommend The Dawn of Everything. It's a weighty tome, but not inaccessible, and it will give a lot of insight into native cultures in the Americas and around the world and how they were not at all like we tend to think. Edit: I do want to say that Islanders could and did provide a lot of fun for kids in the 90s! I still enjoy them and would like to collect more of the sets (enchanted island is a dream, even if the name itself conjures up noble savage ideas), though I do of course look at them with a modern lens. Kids will enjoy lots of toys, but if we can stop perpetuating old and outdated ideas, we should.

Same, it's awesome work all around but that really got me.

What I've learned from all of this is "buy when it's in production, ideally on sale" and worry about fixing it later. So glad I snagged PoBB (used) and LKC (new but discounted), way better to have and complain then not have and also complain.

How on earth he became Steve and not a'Scott is beyond me.

Also, can I just LOL at the fact that we assume a man would have the same facial hair for decades at a time?

Good point! I just checked Pirates of the Caribbean and both of the comic-relief redcoats have long hair with a ponytail. Skipping through a few more scenes notes that some of the bluecoated soldiers also have them. So all you need is a faceswap, not even a hatswap. Edit: I have no idea how much effort Disney put into accuracy, I'm guessing around...3 efforts, but still, I see both blue and red coated soldiers on the same ship, so who knows what the relationship is between imperial guards and imperial soldiers in the brickworld.

I currently have 24 original bluecoats on display, not to mention the blue shirted crew on various ships and bases. And this doesn't include multiple Brigs or the Lagoon Lockup and who knows how many more Harbour Sentries that have been disassembled and packed up for future scene building. I don't have a lot of redcoats out right now, but 2 Bounty Boats, a recolored Harbour Sentry and 4 more redcoats that I suspect are from a pair of Bounty Boats is still a lot. And the little campfire from Barnacle Bay. Plus the one walking the plank on Red Beard Runner. And two ITPs in storage. The pirates have Red Beard Runner, Renegade Runner, the rest of Barnacle Bay, plus Renegades Raft. And a Redbeard body with Willas face forcing a poor sailor to row to treasure. I have a couple of Forbidden Islands hidden away, as well as some other small and medium sets and a PoBB waiting to be built. It truly will be a battle for the ages! Back to the civilian discussion, this would also be a good choice. Actually, most of the torsos from Red Beard Runner are good for it. *ponders selling RBR without minifigs...*

The dumb part of all of this is that $3 worth of heads and hats will solve this issue for anyone who cares (and doesn't have an entire drawer of spare heads/hats). The torsos are exactly the same so you can make them whatever gender you want. I'm happy that we get some hat/hair combos, so if I choose to make them into pirates, they still have a good hat. Lore, sure, if you care about that, I can see it being sad that it (apparently) doesn't come with a story. I don't think they do the opening boxes anymore, so it's unlikely there is one, but hey, that frees us all to make our own stories! We're not lacking for imagination, are we? Right?

As a vintage fan, I've never even heard of the Ladybird books or cassette tapes. The governor is mentioned, though rarely by name from what I saw, and Redbeard is of course everywhere in set descriptions. As you noted, that box pretty much guarantees that governor = Broadside, and I'm OK with that. Perhaps this is another generation of crew at EF, and the French are having a hard time recruiting men due to battles back home, so it's women or nothing. Time (and/or cannonballs) come for us all.

Where? I just looked through some old catalogues and they only mention Broadside in the Brig description, and Woodhouse in the IPT. I don't believe instructions ever had that to avoid language issues, and I admit I have never seen any of the original boxes so I can't speak to them. I did find in the 1993 holiday catalog a reference to Governor Broadside...in the Imperial Flagship. So I guess red and bluecoats are the same lol. It does mention that the "pirate" looking fellow in Imperial Flagship is in fact a crewmember. I know de Martinet has a name, but I don't think I ever knew that as a child. I suspect that came from the comic.

The female head from pirates/castle was the only one used until Dr. Kelvin in 1993 and then Willa in 1997. In Town and earlier Castle (like 383 from 1979), I believe they only ever used hair and torsos to indicate femininity, and the ratio was pretty terrible. The Paradisa head from 1992 onwards is not suitable for castle and pirates use. Edit: Maiden's Cart and Guarded Inn from 1986 are the next females distinctly represented, using the hat and torso. Armor Shop, also from 1986, is a possibility with the hair. This would be the first case of an armored female. Knight's Challenge from 1988 is next, and King's (ironically named) Mountain Fortress kicks off the 90s with...a maiden (who is, I believe, the first instance of a figure with a slope representing a dress). Forestwoman also made an appearance in 1990.

I dig it. Works great for cosplay/rennfaire type stuff too!

The Overlook Fort, an interesting choice.

An entire CMF series of vintage pairings? New peasant for the castle with hood. The "white falcon" soldier from the BAM. Merchant sailor to add to PoBB/EF/C3in1. Farmer with period-agnostic dress for castle/town. Female figure like the Kingdoms barmaid that can go in castle/pirates. Older woman figure with "middle class" dress style. Yes, good ol Steve! The number of times I've seen either Barracuda or Schooner for sale around me in the past 5ish years is incredibly low. Somehow in that period I managed to pick up an Eldorado and two Trading Posts, and missed out on at least two others, 1.5 Clippers, and a Red Beard Runner and Renegade Runner. While they may be out there, I think Sea Mates is my best bet. Someday I'm hoping for a Schooner so I can sell the Runner, I really don't like it and the Schooner looks so good. I might even keep the Renegade Runner since the sails match the Schooner, and it's good to have a fleet.

I guess I should count myself lucky that I have a spare OG Broadside head that I got somewhere, makes it an easy fix. Currently he's the captain of the Seagle (Sea Eagle get it har har) but I can swap heads.

And a frog!

The captain with the vest from IPT and Schooner(?) is one of my favorite torsos of the olden days. I do use the regular striped shirt pirate torsos on my custom Clipper (I'll take and post some pics one of these days), especially the blue and white since that's the imperial colors. Having a good mix of soldiers and shipmates is key! Plus the blue shirt with gold ties makes for an intermediate officer, even if not militarily ranked. I always made them into the "steerer" or maybe chatting with the admiral or governor. Swapping out the bandannas for tricornes really makes them a step up from pirates and therefore perfectly good imperial crew. I've apparently only come across the female pirate torso once, and I have to assume it came from Sea Mates since I don't have any of the other sets it came in. That is oddly not as expensive as I would have thought, so I might try to find a few of those since they'll be cheaper than the ascot/vest one from the IPT cargo ship.

This thread has turned into the Lego version of "No one hate Star Wars more than Star Wars fans" and it's really frustrating and stupid. Forgive me for asking, but is there some way to mute people in threads on Eurobricks? Reddit of course had the block function, and downvoting would hide comments and posts, but I don't see anything like that here. To keep it on topic, I want to see more torsos that can be civilians. Heads are super easy to swap and PAB has tons of options. I was that weird kid who always wanted more civilian stuff because, well, that's what life was like. Not all cops and robbers, outlaws vs cavalry, castle faction vs castle faction. Where are my peasants and townspeople and traders and workers?

I wonder how two of these together would look. I feel like you could make an open parade ground area in the middle, maybe a barracks, maybe have a few animals too. Leave one crane, and have a lower area with more dock around it. Sort of a combo of 6276 and 6277 in a way. And of course having two trading ships is always a bonus.

I feel like it works pretty well when you have PoBB in ship mode, they can attack the cargo ship or Eldorado. Gives plenty of play action, and somewhat makes sense to have a ship to supply the base. Clipper would have been rather large to include, even if the piece count isn't that high. I wonder how hard it would be to change the sail design in the 3-in-1 pirate ship to reflect imperials instead? There's a fair bit of red around the cabin, but doing the blue corners and crossed cannons in a sail shouldn't be too hard.

Vive le lieutenant!

I just downloaded the 1.5GB version, I'll read it in a bit.