MagPiesRUs

This vignette depicts the stand-off between Gandalf and the Witch-King at the gates of Minas Tirith. It's one of my favourite moments from the book, and I've tried to incorporate all of the details into the vig as best I could. I always end up taking an excessive number of photos, so you can see more below (along with the accompanying text from The Return of the King): ... And a few more pictures can be found here Enjoy! Comments and criticism are much appreciated!

Mine arrived today, that was quick! Thanks again Copmike!

Thanks for the great game Walter! I loved the theme and the presentation throughout. I enjoyed the game set-up, the stumps were a lot of fun. My one complaint would be the amount of confusion roles out there (naive cop, miller, framer and janitor), but I understand you needed a way to balance out the stumps. Things probably would have been clearer if we knew there was a janitor. Who came up with the idea that all non-oaks disappear? And why did we all end up believing it, despite the Elder's daily hints that we were completely wrong? Well done Hinckley, and well done to the scum too. You all played great. I'm glad that Foog and I managed to prevent a maple win by acting incredibly scummily. Just as planned. But Hinck killed Foog last night? I would have thought the scum would win too, in that case. They would have fulfilled their objective to outnumber the oaks, after all. Or am I missing something?

If you think you're the only oak left, and you know that your only chance of winning is a no-lynch today, why did you vote for Sammy?

Oww, my body! Hurts so much! I told you a scum could have hammered Jack... At the moment, my gut is telling me that n4275 is MDDC.

(Continued) but that's not the impression I've been getting throughout the day. If she is scum, that's on Simon and the stumps, not me.

Nope. Look at the post above, I've explained why we need a vig kill and probably an antikill action tonight. Do you really think I was expecting Simon to confirm or deny whether we still had those actions? I'm sure I've been over this in a few of the earlier days. And why would I fish when the stumps are so happy to reveal vanillas? If lassie isn't confirmed in any way, that's too bad.

I might not have explained it well, but my implication was that Sammy is experienced enough to try the (bare minimum) oaky thing after receiving my message. In the sentence immediately after, I agreed with your interpretation and pointed out things that niggled me too. I did find Sue suspicious, and since she's likely to be the SK, I was right to be. However, I think an investigation result should take priority. If you and the stumps have reason to trust her, I'm inclined to believe she is confirmed in some way. If I delved deeper into it, I'm sure you'd accuse me of fishing. No, that wasn't fishing. I said we needed a protector or blocker to survive if I'm to die tonight. If the town is to win, we will need two oaks remaining tomorrow. The vig can only kill one person, which means either the maple or the SK will remain. Unless for whatever reason, the maple targets the SK or the SK targets the maple. If we don't use the vig tonight, the only chance we'll have of winning is if the SK and the maple both kill each other, which is HIGHLY unlikely. It's not exactly a monumental task to switch the vote over. You just need one other person to switch over to Sammy to get a lynch.

Based on the behaviour of Simon and the Stumps, I'm willing to believe that Lassie is confirmed in some way. That means we still have three oaks left and two non-oaks: Sammy and Sue. Due to the investigator result on Sammy, I find it hard to believe she is the SK. Despite clearly following along with the conversation, Sue has avoided speaking her mind on the recent events. This suggests to me that she's the real SK trying not to tip her hand in light of Sammy's revelation. For that reason, I believe that Sammy is a maple... Unvote: Sue Sumac (Bob) Vote: Sammy Sycamore (Fugazi) I'm curious, what makes you think the investigator who targeted you was naive? As opposed to the other investigator? As far as I'm aware, both investigators only returned with "oak" results.

That's the impression I get, considering that a large proportion of the posts here have been codes. Because Lassie actually voted for Jack instead. Sammy on the other hand held off on voting, waiting to see how things would play out before voting for Jack. Thanks. It seems pretty clear to me that that's what happened. Yes, I mentioned that. I think Jack used his final words to draw attention to me in the hope that I'd be vig-killed last night, and to cast further doubt over whether or not he was a maple that night. I was doubtful about Hazel being scum up until I noticed she had changed her avatar and sig, which seemed a very strong indication that she wasn't expecting to return to us. When he didn't come back as a stump, it seemed obvious she must be scum. Only after you and Peter died, and in light of Peter's comments, I began to start worrying again.

That's an unfortunate coincidence. I do remember that quote from Jack, but I didn't remember anyone addressing it. It looks like you provided a short answer soon after, but I must have missed it. Were I scum, I would have paid closer attention, as all information would likely be better organised on a writeboard or something similar. Why would Jack attempt to discredit someone's defense of himself? The way I interpret his final comment about me is that he was trying to maintain the illusion of being a townie so that it would affect the night actions last night. I'm guessing the maples fully expected the vig to target me last night, since I was the second most suspected person yesterday. Had he known I would survive the night, I suspect his comments would have been different. I never ruled that out as a possibility. Taken as a whole however, I was getting a town-read on Jack. So you think that everyone involved with the codes was scum, do you? Well, I don't know what to say. The codes have been extremely beneficial and could have potentially been even more if they had been utilised properly. The way I remember Day 2 was that I was constantly questioned about the code plan, and I kept answering any concerns. Why wouldn't I continue to push the idea of the codes anyway? They were going to work. Why would I give up on an idea I firmly believe in? I could point out all of the other things I've done that make little sense for a maple to do (sticking with the vote against Peter, worrying about Hazel being a townie despite the advantage such an assumption would give the scum, not voting for Jack at the end of the day when it would make sense for a maple to just follow along...), but I'm guessing you'll all just dismiss all of it as WIFOM.

Before your vote, there was no consensus amongst the living yet. As far as the stumps go, unless I've missed something, the consensus isn't exactly overwhelming (3 to 2, it seems). But it's not smart to set up codes. It restricts the scum heavily. That's why I thought the codes would work and proposed them. You can't just ignore all of things I've done that make far more sense for an oak to do just because you think I'm smart. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Is that what you believe, or are you following along with the supposed consensus?If you go back and read yesterday, it doesn't look at all like Jack and I were on the same side. Do you think the code strategy was all a scum move? Because it's a pretty damn helpful idea. Do you think I brought it up purely as a WIFOM, even though it could have been crippling to the maples if everything had gone right? Even though Lauren revealed a bunch of vanillas, it has still been helpful (I assume so at least, based on the back and forth between Simon and the stumps). That's an extremely high-risk, low-reward ploy if so. Basically, every argument against me seems to assume there's some sort of WIFOM at play, when the far simpler explanation is that I'm an oak.

Why do you think the vote against you didn't take off if both me and Jack were scum? If both major lynch candidates were scum yesterday, don't you think the maples would have leaped at the opportunity to lynch you? If a couple of others had followed along with Simon and added some pressure on you, I think the day could have turned out differently. Instead, the maples must have realised I was an easier target, and thus tried to let me get lynched. I definitely haven't ignored the possibility of Sammy being scum. I am curious to see what he has to say today.

I was actually asking about the quote I placed below about Jack and Sue.

What do you think of this quote? Ah, so it was just ACTING confused? Sounds scummy... Light little poke there, which Jack immediately rescinds with his blush. Scum buddies have done things like this before.

Ok, I'm glad you answered that. So you didn't think it was suspicious that the bandwagon was steered away from me and towards Jack? You thought it was two scum on the chopping block yesterday? Even though no one jumped on the vote against Lassie (who, unless you think all three possible lynch candidates were scum yesterday, you think is an oak)? That's actually one of my primary reasons for suspecting you - because you voted for me initially. I feel like if Lassie was scum, he would have jumped on the bandwagon against me and gotten an easy lynch. I'm iffy on Sammy though, who held off on his. He may have been biding his time, waiting to see if he could get enough votes on me to lynch. He had provided some justification for voting for me earlier in the day, and may have been holding off on his vote to be certain he wasn't caught out. Ok, it wasn't a question. I still expected you to address it though, because it is a big concern of mine. What surprises are you thinking of? What I mean is that if there are only 3 townies left (possibly even 2 townies, 1 neutral), this is going to be a tough vote to get through. Possibly. I'm open to the idea that there is only one maple left though.

If there is a SK, the only realistic candidates are Lassie and Sue. Since I believe Sue is a maple, I would guess Lassie is SK. If there are only two townies left, then it is me and Simon. If there is a third townie, I think it is a toss-up between Sammy and Lassie. It will help to hear a lot more from both of them today though. Vote: Sue Sumac (Bob) This should be an interesting day for voting...

I didn't fight him because I was getting a town-read on him. That's also why I didn't add my vote on after he had been lynched. I did point out that he seemed to be picking and choosing whatever it was that suited his case, though I was unsure if he was a manipulating maple or a townie who was trying to find support for his gut feeling anywhere he could. And you avoided my question. Why did you completely ignore the case against Jack until the last minute when it seemed clear he was done for? Yesterday, you tried to grill me because I didn't mention Peter as a suspect the day after Hazel was lynched. That suggests to me that you yourself must name all of the people you find suspicious and intend to go after in a day. Why didn't you do this with Jack? But the night actions definitely wouldn't have remained the same. Why would the vig kill William if Jack was still breathing? Obviously, the vig would have targeted Jack, and he'd turn up scum. Then we would be sure beyond all doubt that you were scum today. I made a long case against Peter too. That case didn't appear as prominent because it was drowned out by other issues, because there were far fewer posts of his to work with, and because Peter did the bare minimum to actually address them.

I still think it's possible Sammy is scum. Her comments about the janitor strike me as odd, as do some of the other things I've talked to you about. However I still feel that Sue is a better lynch today. What do you make of her hammer vote and subsequent justification?

No you didn't. The case against Jack was outlined early on in the day, and you completely ignored it and zeroed in on me instead. When you saw the tide was turning, you decided to hammer Jack to score some points today. Obviously, you didn't know what I was going to do with my vote at the time. I could have voted for Jack. So you decided to hop on the bandwagon and hammer your buddy. If you didn't, it would have looked bad for you. As I said, if I were around a little earlier (the lynch had already taken place by the time I was awake) and it was clarified that Jack wasn't investigated, I may have voted for him. As it was, no more votes were needed and I wasn't confident about the lynch. Are you admitting that you had the numbers to win yesterday? That's the only reason it would make sense for you to unvote yesterday. If you unvoted Jack at the last minute, the vig would have targeted Jack last night and then it would be confirmed that you were scum today. I don't know, and I'm not really concerned about the SK right now. Since Sammy was investigated as town, it is highly unlikely that he is a neutral. So if the SK still exists, I'd lean towards Lassie. Peter's behaviour strikes me as very scummy, so I'm inclined to ignore one night without a third kill. It's possible he was the SK, but I don't believe his actions support this. I live on the other side of the forest. I was sleeping when a hammer was needed. If it was necessary, I may have hammered Jack. But it wasn't.

I really don't want to be affected by what others have been saying outside of the game, but it is really hard to ignore once you know. Prior to any behind-the-scenes drama, I did find it odd how adamantly Peter clung to my theory about Hazel. Oh my god that ia just Brilliant. Affiliation comfirmed: Maple! I don't know, that doesn't look like a maple trying to distance himself from a buddy to me. It looks like a maple who can't believe his luck.

I live on the opposite side of the forest to the rest of you. When I went to sleep, there was only one vote on Jack. When I woke up, he was lynched. Had I been around to comment, and had someone clarified who had been investigated, I may have voted for Jack. As it was, I did not feel confident enough to throw my vote in against Jack - especially since my voted wouldn't have changed anything. A no vote looks a lot worse than a late vote for a scum (especially when the late vote would be justified by the fact that I slept through the entire bandwagon), so I don't know why I'd do that to myself were I a maple. I didn't have time to put a case together against someone, but if I did I probably would have voted against Sammy. In light of Sammy being investigated and Jack being revealed as scum, I'm willing to believe he is a townie at the moment though. I notice that Sue has been active since I asked her why she switched votes. It's not that difficult a question to answer, is it?

I got that wrong. Barry was killed on the day Larry was lynched and Bobby was killed. I think the point still stands though, as I feel either of them would be a better janitor choice for spreading confusion. I think this supports the idea that Peter was the maple killer. Jack seems a little annoyed that the images proved that Peter was a killer. I'm guessing they janitored him expecting that information not to be revealed. Unless the SK and the scum were somehow working together, the maples wouldn't have known that Peter was a SK and would have assumed he was a townie. In this light, it seems obvious that the maples would have janitored Berty if Peter wasn't scum. With Hazel and Berty both janitored, we would have assumed both were scum and would have trusted Jack more as a result for his part in both lynches. So I think Peter is most assuredly scum.

Ok, that's interesting. So apparently the maples were able to janitor one person each day. That means that the absence of Alastair, Barry, Hazel or Peter in no way makes them scum. Alastair is perhaps the least likely to be scum, being the day one lynch and therefore the most informative death of the night. Barry was making weird roleclaims and was janitored instead of Catarina, which makes him a little more likely to be scum. I would be inclined to believe Hazel was scum, but her post-death PMs make me think she is town, because it would be pretty despicable if it wasn't. Peter was obviously a killer. The absence of a third kill could suggest he was the SK, but I think his behaviour (pre and post-death) suggest to me that he is scum. I must have missed this yesterday, but this seems to be the only mention that Sammy was investigated instead of Jack: It would be a pretty ridiculous ploy to pretend to think that Jack was investigated, especially after he'd already been lynched. I'm inclined to believe Sue must be scum. Happy to hop on my bandwagon, never said a bad word about Jack until the final moment when a hammer was needed. Sue, did you think Jack was scum? It sounds like you were convinced I was scum until the bandwagon turned against Jack. Did you think Jack was scum? Did you hammer him simply because we needed a lynch, or because you knew it would look good today that you helped lynch a scum buddy? Did you find the last minute bandwagon against Jack suspicious? Or did you think both me and him were scum? It's not like there was any new evidence brought up against Jack at the end of the day, it was common knowledge that he was blocked since the early morning.