Found: NISB Grand Emporium for $100

[Robianco]

Then eBay need to step in and check these listings. If the listing is reported them it can be examined and if nothing dodgy is found it can be relisted. Surely TLG would monitor eBay for this kind of activity if it's becoming increasingly common.

I don't think anyone wants to be party to credit card fraud and I also doubt anyone on this board would want to be involved in defrauding TLG... But insinuating there'll be a knock on the door from some Dutch heavies does seem a little over the top.

[rollermonkey]

Ah, so it could be the drop ship scam using a stolen credit card? Some people will get their GE, but not all which is probably why the feedback is mixed.

I believe you are correct that this is a drop-ship scammer. The set arrived today, and the box contains an invoice, from Wal-Mart, for $149.95 plus shipping and tax, despite my only paying $115. I've submitted a fraud report to eBay on the matter and am awaiting their response of what they'd like me to do.

Edited March 21, 2014 by rollermonkey

[rollermonkey]

Rather than wait for eBay to reply, I called them and reported the transaction as likely fraudulent, based on the price paid, the invoiced total, and the disparity between the listed location compared to the billing address on the invoice.

I offered to scan and e-mail the invoice, and to ship the set to either eBay or back to Wal-Mart, but was told that neither was necessary.

While I'm glad that this guy is about to get shut down, and the stolen credit card information will likely now be blocked, I do apologize if anyone here also bought from him based on my mentioning it here.

FYI: I was told that drop-shipping is generally no longer permitted on eBay.

Edited March 21, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Vee]

So you buy sth that is like 99% a fraud, you don't kind of care, then you get the item, then only then you complain... that is weird.

[rollermonkey]

Buying from sites and sellers like this only perpetuates the problem further. It's too bad there are shady buyers to go along with shady sellers in the name of saving a few bucks.

I don't think wanting to save a few bucks is shady. What about the people on eBay selling current sets for far ABOVE regular retail price? Or individual bricks for several dollars apiece through BrickLink? I'd say both of those are pretty shady, too.

As few transactions as I've done on eBay, I'm not up on whatever scams people are running. (I think I have seven 'stars' after my name over a decade of use.) There was a time when you could get legitimate good deals on eBay. Now that I know that's not accurate, I just won't use it any more. Heck, I never knew there was this whole shady, grey-market, LEGO reseller market until I came to Eurobricks... Maybe I should blame y'all for this problem? How fair would that be?

Either way, I reported the fraudulent activity and was fully prepared to ship the item back to Wal-Mart or to eBay if necessary. Hopefully, the lady in Erie, PA whose card was stolen is taken care of, because that's the real issue.

Edited March 21, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Vee]

You are confusing things. If I want to sell anything for a stupidly high price, I can, there is no law against it (unless I have a monopoly, which is not the case). This is no shady business, this is just business as usual. If anyone is willing to pay my high price, fine, we both are happy, me the seller, s/he the buyer. But buying a product that you know with 99% certainly that comes from a fraud, this is as shady as selling it.

I have bought many pieces in BL that were very expensive. I am happy, I don't feel scammed, I don't feel like a fool. I wanted those pieces, I was willing to pay the price, it is my decision, purchase was LEGAL.

[rollermonkey]

I'm not confusing things, but rather sarcastically stating something that is as ridiculous as saying that bargain hunting is shady. I had no way of knowing if the seller has a wholesale connection, or what the markup is on these things is. Once informed on the subject, did I not do the right thing? Maybe I'm too trusting to be making online purchases, but if I really was a shady buyer, I wouldn't have reported the issue, I would have sought out more similar sales, and probably tried to turn a profit on them.

Maybe if there wasn't this war between sellers trying to get maximum profit causing buyers to have to try to get the stingiest deal to get a fair price, crappy scams like this would be a lot more difficult to pull off.

Edited March 21, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Vee]

I kindly strongly disagree with your reasoning but I have said enough already.

Cheers.

[rollermonkey]

It's ok for sellers to seek maximum profits but not ok for buyers to look for good bargains?

That's absolutely ridiculous.

...and if there was a legality issue from my end, don't you think eBay would be having me return the set and refund my money? I offered several times to return the set, because I'm not interested in receiving what amounts to stolen goods, but she stated that it was a valid, completed transaction, and that the seller is the party that will be investigated and restricted. I won't even be informed of the outcome.

[Sam892]

It's ok for sellers to seek maximum profits but not ok for buyers to look for good bargains?

That's absolutely ridiculous.

...and if there was a legality issue from my end, don't you think eBay would be having me return the set and refund my money? I offered several times to return the set, because I'm not interested in receiving what amounts to stolen goods, but she stated that it was a valid, completed transaction, and that the seller is the party that will be investigated and restricted. I won't even be informed of the outcome.

I don't think that the debate is about legal issues but more moral. When you asked about the eBay listing you were supisious yourself, and after almost everyone agreed and even some offered past experiences in these cases you still bought the set.

Just the purchase of this set has caused a lot of problems for people, while you haven't had any consequences. The credit card that was used to purchase this set, was stolen and some poor person has most likely recieved an awful phone call in the last few days. That phone call has most likely made the person feel worried and sick, and probably caused them a lot of stress. It's a large inconvienice when bank info is stolen and although this guy has most likely been given back his stolen money, he's had to get a new credit card, worried for days, and hasn't really financially at least been able to operate as usual. Having someone use your personal information and steel from you is an awful experience, and that poor person has had a hell of a week. While your not the only person to have bought from this seller, you've contributed to this horrible act. If anything you've encouraged the scammer to do it again as from there point of veiw it's worked perfectly.

To help cause so much pain and to someone and encourage crime just to save $50 seems extremely cold to me. While I'm sure your a nice person, I don't think you've full understood the consequences this has bought onto others. If this scammer doesn't get caught the process will just repeat itself.

So while you've saved $50 of a LEGO set, LEGO themselves have lost $150 per each GE sold and someone's had an awful, awful week.

[rollermonkey]

I bought the set before I made the first post in this thread... I didn't ask about the listing, I shared that the listing existed, because initially I thought it was a great deal. I subsequently apologized for even having posted it here. I bought the set before anyone told me of their problems or about the scams they have experienced. I feel bad that I fell for what I thought was a good deal, and did what I could to fix the issue. I didn't have to report the issue, but I knew it was the right thing to do. I didn't steal from the lady who's CC was used, I didn't steal from TLC, or anywhere else. I'm sure I'm not the first person who fell for this kind of scam, and I won't be the last. I bought the set on impulse, and didn't realize until afterwards that there might be an issue. That doesn't make me immoral, and frankly, shaming me for an honest mistake that I already feel bad about is pretty rotten.

[Vee]

..., LEGO themselves have lost $150 per each GE sold ...

LEGO does not lose, we lose. LEGO certainly pass on the loss to the final price of their products. It is like in supermarkets, part of the price you pay is due to stolen goods, it is all factored in.

About the rest of your post, :thumbup:

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

Honestly you didn't do anything wrong. I've followed this thread and it looks to me like some are quick to judge without reading all the facts.

[Vee]

Or some are quick to judge using different points of view.

Each one is entitled to his own judgement.

[Robianco]

Points of view don't really count when faced with fact.

The buyer had already made the purchase on a legal site with a legal listing. It was the people on this board and the actions of the op that highlighted to eBay that the listing involved fraud.

The op didn't steal the credit card details and his actions had no direct or indirect relation to the details being stolen in the first place. The actions of the op might be the only reason the credit card owner knows someone is using their details illegally. I've had my details stolen and I know exactly how it feels.

There is no moral high ground here. The op doesn't need to feel he did anything wrong legally or morally as he didn't DO anything wrong legally or morally.

If he'd made the purchase after hearing people's concerns on this then he may have had to answer to his conscience... as it is he didn't. That's not open to debate.

Feeling some kind of moral outrage at someone who has seemingly benefitted from being an unwilling participant in a crime is pointless.

The op reported it. Offered to return it. Effectively put and end to the the fraud committed against the credit card owner and in doing so has hopefully started proceedings in finding the people responsible.

If anyone still feels they need to throw some blame at him for some apparent wrongdoing then I think that says more about them than the honesty of the op.

[Vee]

There is nothing you can tell me that would change my mind. I stand by what I have written.

[Robianco]

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. It would be a complete waste of energy.

Simply highlighting the futility of some people's bloody mindedness.

[meyerc13]

if there was a legality issue from my end, don't you think eBay would be having me return the set and refund my money? I offered several times to return the set, because I'm not interested in receiving what amounts to stolen goods, but she stated that it was a valid, completed transaction, and that the seller is the party that will be investigated and restricted. I won't even be informed of the outcome.

Why would eBay have you return the set? They aren't out anything. In fact, they probably made their fees on this transaction. Wal Mart is the company that will lose $150 for accepting a stolen credit card. The person whose card was stolen will experience stress, perhaps be inconvenienced ("I'm sorry, your card has been declined, will you be paying cash for that tank of gasoline you just put into your car?"), but will eventually get the credit back. You still might have the police show up at your door... the woman or her bank will call Wal Mart and find out the item was shipped to you. Don't be surprised if that happens, it has happened to others even after they've contact eBay and the company who shipped the item (LEGO, Wal Mart, etc.).

As for the question of why eBay doesn't do something before the auction completes, how could they? They have no way to know if this is fraud until one of the buyers contacts them.

One last point, I often hear buyers on these deals say, "maybe they have a wholesale arrangement with LEGO." I can tell you categorically that this does not happen. First off, on the exclusives, LEGO no longer lets any reseller sell these for below MSRP (although you may be able to get 5% back from a Target Redcard or something like that). Second, to purchase from LEGO directly, you need a bricks and mortar store. If you suspect a deal is too good to be true, ask them where their store is located and look it up. If they don't have one, they didn't get a wholesale deal from LEGO.

I'm just going to put this out there, if it is a current high dollar set ($100 range or more), new in box, advertised for less than MSRP, and the seller has more than one (either in the same auction, or in their auction history), it is a drop ship scam.

Edited March 26, 2014 by meyerc13

[Vee]

.. Wal Mart is the company that will lose $150 for accepting a stolen credit card. ...

I don't think so. Despite my previous post, my real understanding is that the credit card company is the one that loses money. The whole idea for a merchant to accept credit cards as payment option is that it is a safe payment option for them, they will not lose money over a fraudulent transaction, the credit card company - CC Co. - backs up the purchase and assumes any loss. That is why the merchant pays a fee to the CC Co. for every transaction with a credit card, maybe something around 2-3%, I think, this fee is like an insurance.

So, ultimately, it is the CC Co. that assumes the loss. Not Wal-mart, not Lego, not the person that had the CC stolen, not the buyer, but the CC Co. If that loss is somehow transferred to us, consumers, that is something to consider.

[Nagyzee]

Rather than wait for eBay to reply, I called them and reported the transaction as likely fraudulent, based on the price paid, the invoiced total, and the disparity between the listed location compared to the billing address on the invoice.

I offered to scan and e-mail the invoice, and to ship the set to either eBay or back to Wal-Mart, but was told that neither was necessary.

Have you also reported it to Walmart? The set was stolen from them, not eBay. When Shop@Home is used by these stolen CC dropshippers TLG quite often asks the recipient to return the goods to them. When you unknowingly buy stolen products the original owner can still demand it sent back. It's a bit worrying how you just seem to be shrugging this off like it's no big deal and are already happily building your stolen set.

On a more general note it's a bit perplexing for me how naive buyers can be.* I'm shocked how literate, educated people can't resist the temptation to buy 500 dollar UCS Millenium Falcons and stuff like that. Have you given it a thought before buying where the seller could have sourced the set so cheap? Small time eBay seller John Doe can't buy at wholesale prices just as you can't either. And even if he somehow indeed could buy a few at rock bottom prices why would he sell them so cheaply, leaving money on the table? When he is selling at 100 USD, he will end up with less than 90 USD after fees.

*Another sentiment is that "I'll just go in recklessly, eBay, PayPal or my CC company will have my back anyhow if the 99.99% chance that it is a scam materializes. Hey, no risk for me, why not take that 0.01% chance that it's legit?" To me this one is even more annoying than those who are simply naive and just can't help jumping on a great deal.

---

Btw I'm a Nigerian prince and I need 1000 USD to access my heritage of 150 million dollars. Just send me 1000 USD with Western Union please and we will both be filthy rich. (/jk)

Edited March 26, 2014 by Nagyzee

[Super Goblin]

Have you also reported it to Walmart? The set was stolen from them, not eBay. When Shop@Home is used by these stolen CC dropshippers TLG quite often asks the recipient to return the goods to them. When you unknowingly buy stolen products the original owner can still demand it sent back. It's a bit worrying how you just seem to be shrugging this off like it's no big deal and are already happily building your stolen set.

On a more general note it's a bit perplexing for me how naive buyers can be.* I'm shocked how literate, educated people can't resist the temptation to buy 500 dollar UCS Millenium Falcons and stuff like that. Have you given it a thought before buying where the seller could have sourced the set so cheap? Small time eBay seller John Doe can't buy at wholesale prices just as you can't either. And even if he somehow indeed could buy a few at rock bottom prices why would he sell them so cheaply, leaving money on the table? When he is selling at 100 USD, he will end up with less than 90 USD after fees.

*Another sentiment is that "I'll just go in recklessly, eBay, PayPal or my CC company will have my back anyhow if the 99.99% chance that it is a scam materializes. Hey, no risk for me, why not take that 0.01% chance that it's legit?" To me this one is even more annoying than those who are simply naive and just can't help jumping on a great deal.

---

Btw I'm a Nigerian prince and I need 1000 USD to access my heritage of 150 million dollars. Just send me 1000 USD with Western Union please and we will both be filthy rich. (/jk)

It's as if you didn't read anything posted in this thread.

[Vee]

... When Shop@Home is used by these stolen CC dropshippers TLG quite often asks the recipient to return the goods to them....

That is a wise thing to do, because if you let the buyer keep the item, you are only encouraging more people to knowingly buy from the scammers, since they run no risk of losing money - paypal guarantee and the like - with a great possibility of keeping the item for a very low price. But then, you will need to return the money to the buyer.

[Nagyzee]

It's as if you didn't read anything posted in this thread.

I did. If something in my reply indicates that I overlooked something and you'd like to point that out then please be less cryptic.