Emerald Night: quick question

[Werlu Ulcur]

I'm going to buy the EN and of course I'll motorize it, but I need be clear on the motor I need. I've read thorough a bunch of threads here, so I think I got the most important aspects, and I think i have two options: using the XL engine in the loco or the train motor in the tender. But on all these threads I read I had the impression that people prefer the XL engine because it's stronger . I've been playing with my train sets these last two weekends and even hooked up all my (stock) cars to one engine and it pulled them just fine (on a flat floor track, with bends, switches and flexible tracks). I didn't keep 'em running for extended periods of time but I never had a problem once - however I did notice that with all the wagons hooked up I couldn't get the train to derail even at the highest speed, something that easily happened when running the original three cars per loco.

The EN will be a "short train" in my railroad, with only the engine, tender and one passenger car (two tops), so I'm fairly confident it will be light. In a few months (fingers crossed) my railroad will be a table-top affair, so there won't be inclines on the track. The reason I'm thinking about motorizing the tender is because then I'll keep the space for the engineer and hopefully get to keep that awesome furnace. I understand that I'll have to loose the internal gears on the wheels (I can keep the exterior push rods, right?). The "mechanical look" of those wheels turning and the push rods working is what enticed me about the set in the first place.

So what is better:

1) Go the XL route and just follow Lego's instructions but loose space in the loco but (possibly) get more power.

or

2) Use the train motor and possibly get more space in the loco though with maybe less power and the need to fiddle with the drive wheel gears.

[Luke_likes_Lego]

Hi Werlu,

Hmmm....reading your post, I would say:

2) Use the train motor and possibly get more space in the loco though with maybe less power and the need to fiddle with the drive wheel gears

because it sounds better for you.

They both have their Pros and cons, but the engineer and furnace sound important to you.

Incidentally, where do people put the IR receiver in this solution....still in the engine (per XL instructions)? Or on top of the battery/tender combo?

I like the idea of being able to disconnect the tender from the engine, which you can't do with the XL solution or the IR in engine solution, without disconnecting wires.

Cheers,

LLL

[Gioppa]

I have the same problem, of i put the xl Motor, i loose the furnace;

The solution?

I buy the second emerald, i Made the engine longer, and i have the xl Motor,and the furnace at the same time!

[zephyr1934]

The EN tender is way too short, I'd suggest lengthening the tender and put the IR receiver there (though you'd have to run an extension cord through the boiler if you wanted headlights).

[Haddock51]

Operating only with 9V, I extended the EN with another 3 coaches and put two 9V engines on the first coach. Works perfectly - and fast!

[Werlu Ulcur]

I like the idea of being able to disconnect the tender from the engine, which you can't do with the XL solution or the IR in engine solution, without disconnecting wires.

If the IR receiver goes up front, you can't disconnect the tender, and admittedly that is a problem. Nothing terrible, but it would be nice to not have to mess with wires.

The EN tender is way too short, I'd suggest lengthening the tender and put the IR receiver there (though you'd have to run an extension cord through the boiler if you wanted headlights).

Putting everything in the tender would work perfectly, but I still would have the headlights' wires to worry about .

Since I want/need headlights, with both options I'll still won't be able to easily disconnect the tender because of wires . Guess I'll have to live with that then. But back to XL motor vs train motor; will the train motor instead of the XL make the train noticeably weaker with up to two passenger cars?

[Spitfire2865]

My EN used the XL motor. It was strong enough to pull 3 custom 8-wide coaches. The coaches were considerably longer and heavier than the coach that came with the set. I saw some loss of power around turns but overall it worked great. And with the PF, its easy to disconnect the loco and tender by disconnecting the battery. And I was still able to put an engineer and fireman in the cab, although no firebox detail. But a good sacrifice IMO. Hope that helps

[Werlu Ulcur]

You got the engineer in the cab using the XL without having to enlarge the engine? That is something to consider.

You wouldn't have a shot of how it looks from behind, would it?

[Spitfire2865]

Actually I am not sure. Haha. I dont think I ever photographed that. But it isnt too hard. I believe I changed the cab to 8 wide and fitted a half stud offset seat for the engineer and build a footplate for the fireman to stand on to shovel coal. Also I made the tender 8 wide. The coaches I made I do have pictures of. Just to show what an XL motor can pull on a very small oval of track. Its on my MOCpages.com account. I cant post a link as my phone is being difficult and will not let me paste a link. Just go to the site and search for Trevor Young. It should work.

http://www.mocpages.com/folder.php/77066 there we go

If you cant figure out how to do my edit, I may be able to build a small example showing the fix. But It may take a while. I dont have much time lately for Lego.

[Werlu Ulcur]

You enlarged only the cabin? I would like to see how that looks.

[Werlu Ulcur]

Over at Philo's page he has some very interesting info. looking at the graphs, this is how the two motors compare in power and torque:

If I'm reading the graphs right, the XL is MUCH better then the train motor in torque and a little better in terms of power. In real world's terms such an increase in performance is easily noticeable?

[Spitfire2865]

Its easy to enlarge the cabin. I started with the roof and had jumper plates reach over the floor to connect with the wall.

[Werlu Ulcur]

Spitfire, if it wasn't too much trouble, could you get a pic? I looked at the instructions and it doesn't seem hard to do, but I would like to see how it looks in the brick if possible.

If this is a viable option then maybe the best would be to go with the XL motor (sans furnace, of course ).

[Konrad]

i would think it can look more realistic powered with PF XL motor

[Spitfire2865]

I will try to get it in bricks. But it may take a few days. I dont have much time lately.

[Werlu Ulcur]

Thanks, that would be very helpful .

[hoeij]

My EN used the XL motor. It was strong enough to pull 3 custom 8-wide coaches. The coaches were considerably longer and heavier than the coach that came with the set. I saw some loss of power around turns but overall it worked great.

The EN has elastic traction bands on 4 wheels. I removed 2 (from the front wheels). This reduces the amount of friction when the EN goes through a curve. It runs better this way (2 traction bands instead of 4 still gives enough traction to pull a long train).

PS. I would definitely recommend the XL motor instead of a 9V train motor. It is a steam train, it's not supposed to run very fast.

And, an Emerald Night is a big burden for a 9V motor (but not for an XL of course, that can pull anything).

Edited March 13, 2013 by hoeij

[Werlu Ulcur]

Thanks for the tip on the elastic bands, but my doubt is not about XL vs 9v, but XL vs PF train motor.

[Spitfire2865]

The EN has elastic traction bands on 4 wheels. I removed 2 (from the front wheels). This reduces the amount of friction when the EN goes through a curve. It runs better this way (2 traction bands instead of 4 still gives enough traction to pull a long train).

PS. I would definitely recommend the XL motor instead of a 9V train motor. It is a steam train, it's not supposed to run very fast.

And, an Emerald Night is a big burden for a 9V motor (but not for an XL of course, that can pull anything).

Why did you quote me? Im just curious.

[hoeij]

Why did you quote me? Im just curious.

I replied to this: "I saw some loss of power around turns". This problem still exists if you remove 2 traction bands,

but it becomes noticeably smaller.

Thanks for the tip on the elastic bands, but my doubt is not about XL vs 9v, but XL vs PF train motor.

The 9v and PF train motors behave roughly the same. I would recommend XL instead of a 9V or PF train motor because it gives a more controlled speed. If you do decide to use a PF or 9V train motor instead of an XL motor, then I would recommend to remove all 4 traction bands from the EN.

[Werlu Ulcur]

But removing all traction bands won't the wheels slip on the rails?

[Spitfire2865]

They may slip a little, but it would save on friction. You dont want unnecessary friction to slow down the motor.

[Daedalus304]

Hello! The Emerald Night is a fantastic engine isn't it? It was the set that brought me into my LEGO steam era.

Powering LEGO steam engines has quite a few options. For you, just running with 1+2 coaches will work alright with the PF train motor. The only problem with that is the size of the tender: IMO it's a little too small for just having a battery box! It should be easy enough to rebuild it larger to fit all the PF components.

If you go the powered tender route, then I would strongly suggest you keep all the PF equipment in there if you can. I can't say for sure at the moment, but I don't think the wires will go through the cab easily if you keep the firebox. Also, you do want to remove the rubber bands and gears. Rubber bands can be great if you are powering the drivers and need more traction, but if you are pushing the engine the bands are going to cause a lot of friction and slowdown in corners.

I personally went the XL motor route, and I've never regretted it. It's simple and you can still fit the engineer in the cab behind it. The engine is incredibly powerful compared to a Train Motor, and can push or pull several cars without effort. The one problem the EN has with powered drivers is that it's finicky with slopes, but there's ways to work with that.

EDIT: Here's a link to my 8-wide emerald night mod. The tender for this is large enough to hold all the PF components, just to help if you want to go that route.

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68947

Edited March 14, 2013 by Daedalus304

[Locomotive Annie]

Your 8 wide Emerald Night is a fine locomotive Daedalus. 8 wide works really well for steam locos and it will come as no surprise that I prefer to work in 8 wide myself. Unfortunately an Emerald Night is beyond my budget at the moment, but I suppose I can keep dreaming.

[Werlu Ulcur]

Daedalus, that looks very good! I can't buy two sets to make one, so widening the whole train is out of the question for me, but maybe lengthening the tender might by the best solution. If I understood your pics right, and from looking at the tender's instructions, you lengthened it only two studs? Would that be enough to accommodate the battery pack and IR receiver? The best thing about this solution is that I don't have to mess with the furnace in the loco - I was also wondering how the blazes I would manage to run the cable around it to the tender. The only drawback is the lights; with everything in the tender, I'll have the same issues with the cable from the lights. But honestly, maybe I should consider ditching the lights, or maybe, going for a non-Lego solution for the lights up front.

Thanks for all the feedback, all this info will help a LOT when it's time to start bricking.