Jedi Temple Mafia - Day Three

[Peanuts]

Okay, this is strange.

So, we have a cop, who's also psychiatrist, and who is pretty much confirmed thanks to the successfull lynch of Hugar Ssiht.

No, the Cop/Psychiatrist, whoever he is, knew, too, though Roron said that he said that he didn't tell anyone.

That can easily be proven, can't it? Coryn knows his identity, so he should be able to ask him, right? Unless he was Corobb or Skywalker, that is. But even then, if he explicitely stated he hadn't told anyone else, why would he lie?

I've read what was said yesterday, and it is really weird how Ssiht seemed to know that the shrink and the cop where one and the same. I don't see how else he would have come to know, other than either Coryn or C-3PO being scum. The question is, who.

Well, there is no overwhelming evidence against either, but this

Yay we got a scum,mno surpises there. It is a shame Anakin and master Corobb were killed though. Please can we look at Quialon Vos, he has not done much except vote. He just turns up and places his vote on the bandwagon, he is flying under the radar and he is doing it very well at the moment.

On the case of C 3po I really doubt he is scum. Maybe an investigation tonight just in case but his behaviour has been very town like, putting pressure on many people, he has been very helpful so far.

makes me actually believe our Droid could be scum. It is a particularly lousy way to protect him.

What makes me hesitate, though, is the question, if they would actually have converted C-3PO right upon framing him? Their framing attempt was feeble at best, but yet, it seems liek quite a risk.

On the other hand, could Master Windu have actually been right? Was 3PO the Godfather from the very beginning?

I think it is important that this situation gets solved. Apparently either Coryn or C-3PO is scum, and the investigator is in contact with Coryn. We'd have to make sure our investigator trusts the right person.

Master Monn has also been acting scummy again, by possibly revealing the number of the scum. Which seems ridiculously low, and is congruent to the one given to us by Master Windu.

I'll have to think about this situation some more, right now we shouldn't make hasty decisions. But I'm inclined to go for C-3PO.

[Scorpiox]

Woah, a lot has happened since my meditation. Firstly, the loss of poor Master Corobb is deeply upsetting, his head was so nice and rubbery he was one of the most helpful Jedi among us. What Coryn is saying is very disturbing as well, that C-3PO has been turned to the Sith. I have a twinging sense that it is the truth, as only one of the inner cirlce could have revealed the finding of the lightsaber to Hugar. Master Windu's outburst leads me to believe that C-3PO was on our side at least when Windu was flailing, but the Sith used this to their advantage later by converting C-3PO during the night, after we all we seemed to trust him.

The argument against Volviff Monn, I believe, is just a distraction to detract from the much more pressing issue that C-3PO could have been converted. We need to sort this out guys, before any further info is released to a probable Sith. Has C-3PO been told the identity of Sherlock? I sincerely hope not.

Bah, with all this I haven't even been intimate with anyone yet. Nahdar?

[Palathadric]

And what reason would he have to lie to us? He's been confirmed town by Master Sith's affiliation, pretty much.

Is this really a good enough way to confirm him? I suppose the scum had already lost one when you got this "investigation" result so it would've been pretty bold for him to try to try to gain your trust at a cost of another scum.

That's right, he seems to know the number of scum. Got you, Piggy.

Acually, this makes me kind of wonder whether he is scum or not, because it is highly unlikely that there are only four scum, but...I still really, really don't trust this guy and I don't remove my finger.

Please can we look at Quialon Vos, he has not done much except vote. He just turns up and places his vote on the bandwagon, he is flying under the radar and he is doing it very well at the moment.

Pretty much just like you, eh?

[Kadabra]

Woah, a lot has happened since my meditation. Firstly, the loss of poor Master Corobb is deeply upsetting, his head was so nice and rubbery he was one of the most helpful Jedi among us. What Coryn is saying is very disturbing as well, that C-3PO has been turned to the Sith. I have a twinging sense that it is the truth, as only one of the inner cirlce could have revealed the finding of the lightsaber to Hugar. Master Windu's outburst leads me to believe that C-3PO was on our side at least when Windu was flailing, but the Sith used this to their advantage later by converting C-3PO during the night, after we all we seemed to trust him.

The argument against Volviff Monn, I believe, is just a distraction to detract from the much more pressing issue that C-3PO could have been converted. We need to sort this out guys, before any further info is released to a probable Sith. Has C-3PO been told the identity of Sherlock? I sincerely hope not.

Bah, with all this I haven't even been intimate with anyone yet. Nahdar?

Chirp chirp. (No, it's been established that Coryn and Corobb kept C3PO in the dark about Holmes' identity.)

[Peanuts]

And, to borrow some of 3PO's WIFOM, why would I be this bold as scum? If I were scum and 3PO was town, I'd know he'll flip town after he'd been killed, and I know who's next on the chopping block if that happens.

No, I assure you, Master Corobb was not Sherlock. In fact, Sherlock just got in contact with me earlier telling me his results. They're not particularly good results, but at least he's still alive.

The way I understood this, it's apparent either you or 3PO (or Zane?) is scum, which you both knew. So you'd have all reason to reveal this, because he might just do the same.

How can investigation results not be good results? Was he blocked? If so, that's worrying.

Maybe you killed Corobb because you knew that Coryn would think it is ridiculous for you to have killed him?

I wondered about your last point myself. Master Coryn if your "Psychiatrist" was not Master Corobb himself, are you quite sure of his towniness? I wouldn't be surprised if it was Master Corobb though, because otherwise I would be surprised how he found out so quickly who teh "Pshychiatrist" was.

Sure of who's towniness? The shrink/cop has been cleared by his investigating of Master ssiht, I think.

Is this really a good enough way to confirm him? I suppose the scum had already lost one when you got this "investigation" result so it would've been pretty bold for him to try to try to gain your trust at a cost of another scum.

I think you've just stated exactly why he can be trusted.

[Tamamono]

I wondered about your last point myself. Master Coryn if your "Psychiatrist" was not Master Corobb himself, are you quite sure of his towniness? I wouldn't be surprised if it was Master Corobb though, because otherwise I would be surprised how he found out so quickly who teh "Pshychiatrist" was.

Yes, I am quite sure of Sherlock's 'towniness'. Why would he have brought forward an investigation result on a member of his own team?

Is this really a good enough way to confirm him? I suppose the scum had already lost one when you got this "investigation" result so it would've been pretty bold for him to try to try to gain your trust at a cost of another scum.

Yeah, it would've been. One thing you need to learn is that scum don't fake investigation results this early, especially not on their own teammates.

The way I understood this, it's apparent either you or 3PO (or Zane?) is scum, which you both knew. So you'd have all reason to reveal this, because he might just do the same.

That's a good point, but if you had been there in our private messages when Master Corobb had first died, you'd think differently. He acted like nothing had happened, and, like I said before, brought up all sorts of other suspicions even when it was obvious that the 'no-kill' pact had been broken.

If I had been scum, and 3PO was responding like that, I would have let it be and gone on with the day.

How can investigation results not be good results? Was he blocked? If so, that's worrying.

Sherlock investigated Master Corobb.

[Palathadric]

Sure of who's towniness? The shrink/cop has been cleared by his investigating of Master ssiht, I think.

I think you've just stated exactly why he can be trusted.

I'm sorry, did you not actually read what I wrote? I asked originally if he could be trusted for sure. Then I said, I suppose, and stated the reason why he should be trusted. You:

[Peanuts]

Sherlock investigated Master Corobb.

Okay, that's pretty much useless.

I'm sorry, did you not actually read what I wrote? I asked originally if he could be trusted for sure. Then I said, I suppose, and stated the reason why he should be trusted. You:

Ah, sorry. You got me confused there.

But, yeah, that should be enough to be trusted. I mean, the scum had one lost, and now we've lost 3 of us against two of them. That's a horrid ratio for them. Once they've lost one of them, I think they'd rather play it safe instead of bussing even more of their own.

[Brickdoctor]

Here's the simple answer: Roron is a Town, and he was bringing the Town together. He also didn't fully trust you, and, since you were in the Circle of the Three C's, you knew that he wasn't the one being protected (I assume that you three know who the protector is). This is assuming you are a Scum, of course, or were converted to the Scum Night One.

I don't know who the protector is.

Did I ever say that they were weak or didn't make sense? No, I did not. These are very good suspicions, and I think at least one of these people is likely to be scum (if not all of them), but you were throwing out suspicions that were fairly irrelevant when it was obvious that you'd be the one under scrutiny when Master Corobb died.

So just because I'm a suspect means that I should stop trying to help the Town by pointing out who's acting Scummy? Besides, I pointed out the Scumminess of two of those three before you said that you thought I was Scum. Yes, I knew you would suspect me, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to wait around and do nothing until you say that you think I'm Scum.

But, in all seriousness, Master Corobb was obviously suspicious of the both of us, and I suppose you were feeling threatened. There's no other real explanation for why you killed him.

So I would kill he who was somewhat suspicious of me, knowing that to do so would gain me even more suspicion from you? Riiiiight.

And which "facts" am I missing? Sherlock said to Master Corobb that he hadn't told anybody. If he had, I can only think of one person he would have told - Zane. Now, of course it's possible that Zane is scum, but I'm talking to Sherlock, and I'm inclined to believe that it is, in fact, you who's scum.

Your play is missing the fact that the three of us were not the only ones to know about the Cop/Psychiatrist, and the fact that there is a small possibility that Sherlock was the leak and doesn't know it.

When did I say you were grasping for straws? That's right, never. You're inferring too much from my statements. I said you threw other, perfectly good, suspicions in front of you even when it was obvious you'd be under scrutiny today.

You play implies it when it shows me pushing suspects into you without me first giving you a reason. But, fine, let's assume that you didn't mean that. See my above response regarding this.

[Jedi master Brick]

Well the case against 3 CPO is not much, it is based on a gut feeling. We should consider though 3 Cpo may have been converted on night 1, to me this is the most likly option. In that case it should come up as scum on investigation.

Master Vos, I suspect you because you have only really turned up to vote. You have tried to fly under the radar so far.

[Tamamono]

So just because I'm a suspect means that I should stop trying to help the Town by pointing out who's acting Scummy? Besides, I pointed out the Scumminess of two of those three before you said that you thought I was Scum. Yes, I knew you would suspect me, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to wait around and do nothing until you say that you think I'm Scum.

The way you suggested not one but three suspects immediately after we learned of Master Corobb's death definitely made it look like you were trying to distract me.

Your play is missing the fact that the three of us were not the only ones to know about the Cop/Psychiatrist, and the fact that there is a small possibility that Sherlock was the leak and doesn't know it.

I'm currently talking to Sherlock, and if he was the leak, we'll know soon.

Well the case against 3 CPO is not much, it is based on a gut feeling. We should consider though 3 Cpo may have been converted on night 1, to me this is the most likly option. In that case it should come up as scum on investigation.

Master Vos, I suspect you because you have only really turned up to vote. You have tried to fly under the radar so far.

I don't like how you're shrugging off the 3PO case as a 'gut feeling' (even when there is real evidence that he's scum) and continuing to tunnel on Master Vos. If 3PO is scum, then you are too.

[Scubacarrot]

Distraction? Unlikely? Come on, guys, try to think how a Sith would think for a second. If someone made a slip-up like that, what would the others tell the Sith in private? To play it off as a mistake or a joke. I believe he meant what he said, and that he meant that there are seven Sith, which would be a distinct possiblity. Since almost no one seems to think I'm right, I'll drop this for now, so we can focus on the matter at hand, because let's face it, I am afraid C-3PO would be a greater threat, if he really was Scum.

Now, a lot of you seem to think that it was a conversion, and that he is now indeed scum, and was therefore managed to channel Sherlock's info to Hugar, and it would still be logical for him to have contributed in a major way to the lynch of Master Windu. It would also explain why there was no supposed scum kill on the first night. (Oi you're recapping, scum, scum!)

Now, the truth is, conversions are not that common, they exist, sure, but in a situation like this? I don't know, if I am honest, I don't think so. The reason there was no kill on night one would much more likely be the cause of a succesful block or protection, and if we indeed (still) have our blocker, I implore you to reach out to those you think are trustworthy, and share your actions of that night, since it could indeed be valuable information. The same goes for the Protector, but the information would be only slight less valuable, for obvious reasons. Of course it is still a possiblity, Windu called him out, after which they recruited him right away, it just seems incredibly risky and far fetched to me. And as we all know, the scum like to play it safe, if at all possible.

The slightly more likely option (in my mind) would be that Master Windu was telling the truth, and the droid has indeed been the cybernetic brain behind the evil in this temple all along. It would mean Windu was an incredibly selfish person, you would say, but is that really the case? His supposed role, the Usurper, is basically a solo role, would mean that he would only win if the Godfather was killed, a scum victory with the Godfather alive would still mean he would not have won. Plus, if Monn's slip-up is anything to go by, the scum's number would allow for such a role to exist. Looking back, what did C-3PO really do, to add to the conversation? He added a lot, sure, but does that rule him out to be scum, not at all, I think. The lynchee was not brought forward at first by him, and he could have decided to cut Windu loose. It's also even a possibility Windu mentioned that he was the usurper to his Sith-mates, which would for sure be a reason to cut him loose. All in all, I think it's a definite possibility that Windu just decided, you know what, there is the off-chance this way I still win.

Of course, Windu's "confession" could very well have been his way of trying to drag a townie with him, and if the conversion idea turns out to be false, he has succeeded, he caused a hell of a lot of confusion among our ranks.

[Jedi master Brick]

I don't like how you're shrugging off the 3PO case as a 'gut feeling' (even when there is real evidence that he's scum) and continuing to tunnel on Master Vos. If 3PO is scum, then you are too.

I have not had any contact with 3P0 outside this thread. I just feel that if 3PO is scum he has been converetd on night 1. I also fail so see this "solid evidence". 3po is worth investigating instead, he has been very helpful to the town so far, thougth he could of been convered so that would explain his town like behaviour.

[Brickdoctor]

The way you suggested not one but three suspects immediately after we learned of Master Corobb's death definitely made it look like you were trying to distract me.

I suggest suspects when they act Scummy. These three suspects were all acting Scummy (or, in Ahsoka's case, were made to look Scummy) at the same time, so I suggested them at the same time.

Looking back, what did C-3PO really do, to add to the conversation? He added a lot, sure, but does that rule him out to be scum, not at all, I think. The lynchee was not brought forward at first by him, and he could have decided to cut Windu loose.

R2-D2 can confirm that I theorized (in private) that Hugar was Scum before R2 made his statement on Day One saying that he suspected Hugar, and both he and Coryn can tell you that I never stopped thinking that Hugar was either Scum or the SK right up until his lynch.

[Tamamono]

Now, the truth is, conversions are not that common, they exist, sure, but in a situation like this? I don't know, if I am honest, I don't think so. The reason there was no kill on night one would much more likely be the cause of a succesful block or protection, and if we indeed (still) have our blocker, I implore you to reach out to those you think are trustworthy, and share your actions of that night, since it could indeed be valuable information. The same goes for the Protector, but the information would be only slight less valuable, for obvious reasons. Of course it is still a possiblity, Windu called him out, after which they recruited him right away, it just seems incredibly risky and far fetched to me. And as we all know, the scum like to play it safe, if at all possible.

The protector (Totoro) has said that his target was not attacked on either night. And, as far as I know, the blocker didn't block anybody important night 1. I think a conversion is very likely, and I think it was performed on 3PO.

The slightly more likely option (in my mind) would be that Master Windu was telling the truth, and the droid has indeed been the cybernetic brain behind the evil in this temple all along. It would mean Windu was an incredibly selfish person, you would say, but is that really the case? His supposed role, the Usurper, is basically a solo role, would mean that he would only win if the Godfather was killed, a scum victory with the Godfather alive would still mean he would not have won.

This too is a possibility, hence why I'm wary of having him investigated (he'll turn up innocent if he's the Godfather, after all). However, I find it more likely that he was converted on Night 1.

I have not had any contact with 3P0 outside this thread. I just feel that if 3PO is scum he has been converetd on night 1. I also fail so see this "solid evidence". 3po is worth investigating instead, he has been very helpful to the town so far, thougth he could of been convered so that would explain his town like behaviour.

When did I ever say that you had contact with him outside the thread? Slip! You're pushing the idea that we should have him investigated awfully hard - if you think he's been converted, why not kill him now? You are absolutely reeking of scum, and you better bet that if 3PO flips Sith, you'll be next.

I suggest suspects when they act Scummy. These three suspects were all acting Scummy (or, in Ahsoka's case, were made to look Scummy) at the same time, so I suggested them at the same time.

That doesn't change the fact that you were presenting them when it was obvious that the no-kill pact had been broken and one of us needed to come forward with Master Corobb's information. At first, you even acted like nothing had happened, and only started to accuse me when it was obvious I was adamant about you. Face it, scummo, you've been caught.

[Brickdoctor]

That doesn't change the fact that you were presenting them when it was obvious that the no-kill pact had been broken and one of us needed to come forward with Master Corobb's information. At first, you even acted like nothing had happened, and only started to accuse me when it was obvious I was adamant about you. Face it, scummo, you've been caught.

It was not "obvious that the no-kill pact had been broken". Another fact that your play omits: the pact applied to kills by Scum. At that point, you were as confused as I was as to who had done the killing. (and I don't know about you, but I still am)

[Flare]

Guys, don't forget about Ili Seosty who has been acting scummy for the last couple days... inactive and scummy...

[Scubacarrot]

Guys, don't forget about Ili Seosty who has been acting scummy for the last couple days... inactive and scummy...

Inactive, definitely, why has she not been replaced by someone else yet, exactly? But not the matter at hand.

For the record, At this point, lynching C-3PO might be a good idea, to be honest, if he turns out Scum, not only would we have the benefit of the lynch, we also would have some interesting points for the coming days.

If he turns out innocent, what would we have lost? An active townie that as a result of recent events was under constant scrutiny, limiting possibilities for cooperation.

It is really harsh, but it is something to consider.

[Kadabra]

Guys, don't forget about Ili Seosty who has been acting scummy for the last couple days... inactive and scummy...

Chirp whistle chirp chirp. (Oh? Just a newb, or using the Chainsaw Defense [drawing suspicion to someone else to indirectly protect the target of scrutiny]?)

[Scubacarrot]

The protector (Totoro) has said that his target was not attacked on either night. And, as far as I know, the blocker didn't block anybody important night 1. I think a conversion is very likely, and I think it was performed on 3PO.

What? How can you say that when there has probably not been a scum kill on the first night? You're going to have to explain that one to me

[fhomess]

R2-D2 can confirm that I theorized (in private) that Hugar was Scum before R2 made his statement on Day One saying that he suspected Hugar, and both he and Coryn can tell you that I never stopped thinking that Hugar was either Scum or the SK right up until his lynch.

Blip bip bip!

[The conversation I had with C-3PO regarding Hugar on day 1 revolved around me suggesting to C-3PO that someone (I did not say who) was phishing for a protector for him. C-3PO later asked me if it was Hugar as he had recieved the same note. It was at this point I decided to go public with my suspicions on Hugar. For this reason, I lean toward C-3PO being templie on day 1.

There is the possibility that C-3PO saw the writing on the wall if he heard from Corobb and Coryn that they had gotten the same message from Hugar, and decided that to be safe, he would try to mislead me as well in the process by appearing super pro-templie and outing Hugar at the same time that Windu was being voted out. This seems pretty unlikely to me, though.

So my theory is, that if C-3PO is scum, he was converted.]

That doesn't change the fact that you were presenting them when it was obvious that the no-kill pact had been broken and one of us needed to come forward with Master Corobb's information. At first, you even acted like nothing had happened, and only started to accuse me when it was obvious I was adamant about you. Face it, scummo, you've been caught.

Beep bip booop dip dup doooop bip.

[i will say that I do think there's the possibility that the Sith targetted Corobb for reasons entirely unrelated to C-3PO, whether or not he's among them. It's also possible that they overruled him because they realized what a threat Corobb was to them.

None of this, IMO, gets us past the question of whether or not we should test some of these theories by voting for C-3PO. I think there are other highly suspicious candidates, too, and wouldn't have much problem with voting for Monn or most any of you. That said, I think that C-3PO is a divisive figure at this point. Regardless of whether or not he's a Sith, and I will confess that I think the odds of it are reasonably good, he's difficult to leave alive. His situation stands in the way of us learning more about everyone else.

For now, FoS: C-3PO (Brickdoctor). This is where my vote will most likely go unless some more substantial evidence comes forward later in the day.

Lastly, why did Sherlock investigate Corobb if he had already entrusted his role, results, and very life to him?]

[Darth Nihilus]

I don't know who the protector is.

Let me reword that a bit: I assume that at least one of the C-triumverate (that sounds really dirty now that I think about it ) knew/knows who the Protector is, and all of you knew who they were protecting. If this is so, you could direct yourself, your scummy buddies, or the SK to kill Master Corobb when he wasn't protected.

[Brickdoctor]

Let me reword that a bit: I assume that at least one of the C-triumverate (that sounds really dirty now that I think about it ) knew/knows who the Protector is, and all of you knew who they were protecting. If this is so, you could direct yourself, your scummy buddies, or the SK to kill Master Corobb when he wasn't protected.

I didn't know who the Doc was protecting, either.

[MacK]

Do both C-3PO and Coryn agree that Roron and Sherlock Holmes never shared information with anyone else? How sure are the two of you that the leak of information originated from the other?

[Brickdoctor]

Do both C-3PO and Coryn agree that Roron and Sherlock Holmes never shared information with anyone else? How sure are the two of you that the leak of information originated from the other?

We know Roron was Town, and I highly doubt that he would share the information. Sherlock might have let it slip out and doesn't realize it, but other than that small possibility, then the leak would have to have come from either Coryn or myself.

The other possibility is that Hugar learned that we thought he was the SK and/or learned that we thought we had a Psychiatrist and got lucky with a guess. I don't know if any of the others told anyone that we thought Hugar was the SK, but the only one I told was Artoo, who I believe is Town based on his bussing of Hugar on Day One while we were focusing on Windu.