Are LEGO Trains Classed as "Real" Model Trains?

[Ralph_S]

The level of detail in all scales is dependent upon the thickness of your wallet.

I agree with just about everything you wrote. This sentence is the exception though, because you forget talent, skill and dedication.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Cale]

Are LEGO Trains considered Real model trains? That's a tough one to answer. I guess it really depends on what your definition of a real model train is. Is a real model train one that must be as hyper accurate and perfectly scaled as possible? A model where every rivet is in perfect scale and every one is accounted for? If that's the case then no, LEGO trains are not real model trains. LEGO will never reach that level, it's just not in the DNA of LEGO. There will always be compromises in the world of bricks that keep us from fully reaching that goal.

However I don't think that is what any one is truly implying here. So what really is a real model train? I think one of the things being confused here is the distinction between model trains and model railroads. A model train is just that, a model of a train. It can be a single locomotive, or car, or a full rake, but the emphasis is on a singular model. It can be made out of what ever materials the modeler wants to use at any scale they wish. I believe best model trains should adhere to scale and authenticity as much as possible within their given medium and in that regard I think LEGO Trains can hold their own pretty well. Sure the stock sets LEGO sells are more toys than true models. How ever that's not true modeling, that's just collecting. It's the MOCs, the custom models, that are the true models and there are certainly some absolutely great LEGO train models out there. So yes, LEGO trains in my opinion can be classified as real model trains.

Now when you start talking model railroads, that's a tougher row to hoe. A model railroad is made up of the sum of many different parts and model trains are only one small part in the equation. Truthfully model railroads are not very realistic. The modeler always has to make compromises based on space, and budget, and time. There is no way a modeler will ever be able to accurately model the true scale of a real railroad with it's sometimes hundreds miles of main lines and vast operations. The curves will always be sharper the main lines shorter and the faculties compressed to fit the space. The modeler must choose his battles and take artistic license when designing the RR empire. With this in mind I don't believe a model railroad is really a model at all, at least not in the classic modeling sense. I believe that at it's heart and at it's best model railroading is an art. It's an art relief that combines the train model, scenery, structures, details, and and the model railroaders passion to create something that captures a moment in time, and place. To freeze a a little slice of the real and interpret it for it's viewers. Model railroads such as

or George Sellios' Franklin & South Manchester do just that and are two of my biggest inspirations.

There have been a few LEGO train layouts out there that I would consider true model railroads by my definition. But they are few and are so far the exception. I don't even consider my own clubs PennLUG layouts to be a true model railroad. At least not yet. But that is all part of growing the hobby, and growing in the hobby. We all must start some where as greatness is not achieved with out hard work and dedication. I believe that PennLUG will get there. I'm proud of how far we've come and I'm continuing to drag the rest of the club kicking and screaming toward my nefarious goals. And I believe the rest of the LEGO train hobby will get there to. Can LEGO be a serious model railroad? Yes, I think it can and I'm looking forward to proving it.

Cale

Edited January 25, 2012 by Cale

[tbroyd]

Its an interesting question as I am also a 'normal' railway modeller, have a g scale railway in the garden and belong to a model railway club.

I have been to many model railway exhibitions and its common now in the UK to see a Lego railway of some description, something never seen 10 years ago. Except for a few rivet counters, most modellers are very open minded to what others do and have never had a problem with them looking down on my Lego models or implying they are inferior. Although normally put with the Thomas The Tank Engine layouts and other more junior attractions at exhibitions, at least Lego is becoming more accepted

I am putting together a Lego railway layout for a model railway exhibition next month and think I have done far more building than some of the normal model railways on show where the track is ready made, trains are simply out the box and even the buildings are ready made & painted

[ZueriHB]

Railroading, Model Railroading, and LEGO.

As I'm a railroader of different trades, let me put in the one category which most modelers forget: operation.

Model railroading operation can be easily done, with old blue and battery powered LEGO trains.

I first started with my fathers H0 Märklin. He told my the base for every layout is one big circle around it. Now, 20 years later, I know better.

I see train operation, station layouts and point configuration every day. From that, my layout evolved to what it was.

You may even saw my layout, devoid of any buildings or track side structures, but also features realism unseen in a great percentage of model train layouts (HO, N, L, you name it).

So model railroading is not only just nice scenery and a train put in there, depending on what you prefer or like to see, operation, is a big part of it too. The level of detail you want to model is up to debate (not everyone want's transport papers for every little bit of cargo, but a printed schedule spices things up).

May sound like shameless promotion for operation, but if a LUG with a big and nice layout can incorporate a time table, have trains stop at predefined times, and may even have them cross and wait each other a the same place, it'll turn heads from the rest of the model railroading community.

So for me, LEGO trains are as much model railroading as any other brand.

[J.P. Manalo]

For years at model train shows in SE Queensland, Lego trains have always been considered as 'toys' by the ho and n people.

I believe a lot of this is jealousy as the crowd around the lego train display is usually 3 deep all day whereas some dusty old n scale set-up might be lucky to have 3 people stop and look in an hour. Some of these 'purist' set-ups are same each year; maybe a new loco. The lego display changes from year to year.

When parents complain about paying AU $300 for a Lego train set, I always make 2 points.

1. Go to the trade stands and have a look at how much you will need to pay for a n scale set.

2. If you buy that set, will you let your 5 year old play with it?

Sometimes they will come back and ask more questions about Lego trains so their kids can get into trains.

<snip!>

We even have a few of the ho scale people come over and chat as their own kids have deserted their display and spent hours watching the real action. Some have even bought Lego trains so that their kids can play trains.

One bloke had just purchased a AU $400 HO loco. I asked him if his 8 year old son would be able to play with it.

He replied, "Yes! When he is 35."

<snip!>

Your anecdotes are very similar (or in fact, identical!) to the experiences that myself and others in the Sydney L-Gauge Group (SLGG) have had when we have exhibited at the Annual AMRA Model Railway Exhibitions here in Sydney. I find it interesting that the organisers of the Model Railway Show have always invited us back to the event every year because our LEGO layout is a really huge draw-card in bringing people to the exhibition.

Personally, I view LEGO Model Railroading as a very valid form of the Model Train hobby, with benefits that you can't get from other "traditional" model railroading forms (i.e. HO-scale, N-scale, etc). I should point out that I once ran a HO-scale layout myself, and still help my Dad out with his HO-scale trains.

It would be interesting to find out whether the NMRA (National Model Railway Association) in the United States has finally recognised "L-Gauge" as a peer amongst HO, N and the other "traditional" model railroading gauges/scales...

Cheers,

J.P. Manalo

[Steinkopf]

I'm going to throw some controversy here: I think that most LEGO layouts are not 'model rail', but I think that LEGO can and sometimes is be used for 'model rail'.

To be more precise I think that an important aspect of 'model rail' is the 'model' side. It's not just the trains that represent reality, it's the landscaping, geometry, buildings, vehicles and other accessories. To have a true 'model railway' you need to have a good go at most of these elements. The same attention paid to the trains must be paid to the cars, the trees, the roads etc. Most LEGO layouts don't go this far.

But a very few do :) I'll not exaggerate the controversy by linking to those I believe meet the criteria.

Tim

I have to agree to the vast bulk of Tim's comment, in many respects a large number of display layouts fail to capture the essence of a model railway this can be due to a number of factors such as unrealistic track design and being overly cluttered aka Track City, the surroundings that the railway is placed in and overall level of detail plays a lot into how convincing the layout is. Many tend to neglect lineside details such as signalling and other infrastructure, ballasting is one simple detail that helps enhance the visual aspect of the track on the layout, the placement and size of buildings is also another issue that comes into play. Model Railways in many respects are like the theatre, the tracks and landscape are the stage, the buildings and other associated details such as vehicles are the stage props, finally you have the trains and rolling stock which play the part of the actors that add life to the whole display.

Over the years of displaying at AMRA with my fellow club members in the SLGG such as J.P. we have slowly won the admiration of a lot of the model railway fraternity, there are however some that no matter how much you try they still have their view that Lego trains are toys, at the end of the day we are in the hobby for our own enjoyment and satisfaction regardless what some other people think.

Regards

Dave

Edited January 27, 2012 by Steinkopf

[owl]

The initial question was, are lego trains "real" model trains?

When that was debated, and of course they are, the goalposts were moved.

Now it's "are lego trains a "real" model railroad?"

What next?

[gambort]

The initial question was, are lego trains "real" model trains?

When that was debated, and of course they are, the goalposts were moved.

Now it's "are lego trains a "real" model railroad?"

What next?

Hehe. I think that was my fault and it was an accident. I think of '"real" model train' as meaning '"real" model railroad' and answered the second question. But of course this is not true.

But we probably all agree that it _can_ be either.

Tim

[Niku]

I think the recent amount of detail on new trains, make them deserve the qualification for a real model train, but also in the AFOL community there are a lot of you guys which make MOD´S or MOC´S even better than Lego original trains and in many cases better than real train models too.

As a fact also I may say that it has it´s tradition as you all know but even more the layouts that are achievable through Lego are as spectacular as any others out there.

A video that shows it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QuzJAQbbwg&feature=related

[craigstrains]

We enjoyed ourselves at Pontefract Show this weekend gone. Our most serious complaint was from an adult male who moaned that Annie and Clarabel should be corridor coaches! A better comment was "It is coming to something when real trains start to look like Lego ones".

Edited January 31, 2012 by craigstrains

[spzero]

I'm not sure whether it has been said before, but the main reason why I think that model railroaders would object that LEGO trains are model trains is the track gauge. For trains to be true to scale, they would have to be about 10 studs wide, but usually they are somewhere between 6 and 8 studs. It was never really a matter when talking to the public at train shows, I guess most people won't even notice, but at some occassions I was asked what gauge the LEGO track is, or what scale it is - by model railroaders. And then you unwillingly have to admit that there are actually two different scales, one for the track and one for the trains.

Honestly I don't care whether someone wants to call his LEGO trains model trains or not, but if you want to discuss this with a model railroader you will need to find some excuses why your trains aren't true to scale, which probably leads us back to track geometry.

I would disagree. there track is just as un-scale as our's hence why there are different types of track in n and oo / ho gauge,

The problem is the height of the rail, its too tall, also there wheels are too wide apart or something as well, some use lower profile track but the stuff you can buy is all wrong untill you get the larger scale stuff.

So most n, ho, oo is out of scale its only small but its still wrong and while ours is obvious there's is not, so unless there making there own narrower lower track from scratch which is very hard and time consuming especially for the points, there's is not to scale.

However some do this and its amazing, but very few.

[LegoMavrick]

Based on the videos and models seen in recent times I would see no reason as to why Lego trains cannot be classed as model trains. Saw a youtube video of the NMRA train show and it was truly astonishing what the Lego guys had put together. That wooden girder bridge on a radius as well was as good as anything I have seen in N of HO Gauge.

Based on my many years of model building be it scale aircraft or armour there has always been those that want to take it to the ultra realistic level which is fine and incredibly good to look at but that is what is great about a hobby, it up to the individual how far they want to go. I remember the arguements some of the guys used to have just on various makers of say a 72nd scale F14 Tomcat. Which one was true scale Airfix, Revell, Tamiya, Hasegawa etc etc. Personally the Hasegawa kits for me was the dogs whatsits. And then the arguing over the right paint job high vis low vis.....gives me a headache just remembering these guys. At the end of the day as long as the individual modeller was happy with the best he or she could do that was it all that mattered. If you became obsessed with what other people said or what others could do, pretty soon you found yourself not finishing anything and sadly giving up on the hobby.

Back to model trains, speaking for myself I wanted to get into N Gauge American railroading with DCC, the whole shooting match. My plans were to make the scenery as good as my diaroma level but not once did I want to take my brand new locos and rolling stock and weather it and make it look all dusty and dirty which many a railroader does of course. I'll bet there is just such an argument between the various advicates of each model railroad gauge. When I wanted to get into N guage I had many a model railroader saying it was rubbish and the only true scale was HO. I'll bet the garden rail boys have experience an equal amount of flak as perhaps us chaps in Lego now. Anyway in the end my N Guage dream was a case of too little time and no designated train room to bring this to a reality. Then I found Lego trains, well not only can you make a track layout but build the locos and rolling stock yourself and make it as toy like for my kids or more adult like. Never had the fun of having a train set being a kid but this for me is definitley the answer and the best thing is my two girls are thrilled about playing and building Lego model trains.

[Toastie]

...

At the end of the day as long as the individual modeller was happy with the best he or she could do that was it all that mattered. If you became obsessed with what other people said or what others could do, pretty soon you found yourself not finishing anything and sadly giving up on the hobby.

...

Then I found Lego trains, well not only can you make a track layout but build the locos and rolling stock yourself and make it as toy like for my kids or more adult like. Never had the fun of having a train set being a kid but this for me is definitley the answer and the best thing is my two girls are thrilled about playing and building Lego model trains.

Dear LegoMaverick,

in my opinion, these is the pivotal points when building with LEGO. I could not agree more with what you are writing - even the two girls fit perfectly (well ladies has become more appropriate I guess, 14+16 years old). Create what you see fit. And simply enjoy.

Best regards,

Thorsten