Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Season 4 Discussion

[LEGOman273]

Just watched "Crisis on Naboo". Wow! Great episode!

[CaptainCRO]

It was a good episode. It was strange how Anakin acted like he didn't recognise Embo after all they went through.

[Fives]

It was a good episode. It was strange how Anakin acted like he didn't recognise Embo after all they went through.

He probably recognized him, but he just tried to capture the Chancellor, so do you think Anakin would care?

[Mr Man]

All 4 of the episodes will have been uploaded by tomorrow so I can watch them all, I hope it's better than I think .

[Brickadeer]

All 4 of the episodes will have been uploaded by tomorrow so I can watch them all, I hope it's better than I think .

I liked them :)

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

I was out last night so I finally got to watch "Crisis on Naboo" this evening. I have to say it was one of the better episodes of this season and was a satisfying and expected end to this story arc. I really liked Anakin's reaction and conversation that he had with Obi-Wan about the lies of the Jedi. You can see that he has serious doubts about the Jedi. I wish this would have been developed more in Episode III but it is what it is.

[Mr Man]

I just saw all 4 of them, and it was worth the wait. Cad Bane is turning into the sort of awesome bounty hunter Bobba Fett is normally associated with (despite no evidence in TCW or ROTJ), why did the hologram things keep flickering? The duel at the end was one of the best in TCW and the PT as well, the little flashes to Palps and his smile, and Dooku using the force as much as a lightsabre.

[Brickadeer]

I just saw all 4 of them, and it was worth the wait. Cad Bane is turning into the sort of awesome bounty hunter Bobba Fett is normally associated with (despite no evidence in TCW or ROTJ), why did the hologram things keep flickering? The duel at the end was one of the best in TCW and the PT as well, the little flashes to Palps and his smile, and Dooku using the force as much as a lightsabre.

The flickering happens so the audience knows what bountyhunter is currently shown.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Mr Man]

The flickering happens so the audience knows what bountyhunter is currently shown.

I know but was it meant as a device to let the audience know (i.e. unseen to the characters) or an in universe flickering (i.e. to potentially give the game away)?

[Brickadeer]

I know but was it meant as a device to let the audience know (i.e. unseen to the characters) or an in universe flickering (i.e. to potentially give the game away)?

Well, it happened to Bane who was on the platform, so I'd say it was only a device to let the audience know.

However, to make it plausible to children, it happened so to say in moments when noone had turned his attention to the person in question. I'm not sure if I expressed myself well. The point is that a child must find a plausible explanation why noone sees the flickering, and the explanation that the show gives is that noone has watched him when the flickering happened.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Peanuts]

I know but was it meant as a device to let the audience know (i.e. unseen to the characters) or an in universe flickering (i.e. to potentially give the game away)?

Didn't Obi-Wan recognize the bounty hunter sabotating the shield only thanks to the flickering?

Anyway, I watched the episode today, I must say, I'm not impressed. We still haven't been told what exactly Dooku's and Palpatine's reason for the whole plan have been, was it meant to lead into a situation like in the beginning of RoTS or was it meant to simply drive Anakin further to the dark side? I don't quite get it. Also, why would Cad Bane disguise as a Neimodian? Certainly the Republic would have closely watched any Neimodian. And why were the Magna droids so weak (losing their head didn't kill them back then)? They weren't nearly as strong as in RoTS, while Dooku was far weaker than in AotC (which might be because Anakin grew stronger, though, because of the dark side). And if there had been so many guards at the celebration, why did we only see half a dozen Senate Guards, two Clone Troopers and the Jedi? But if we forget about the plot holes and the fridge logic, which seems to be a necessity for this arc, it was okay. Some action, bounty hunters, and Palpatine driving Anakin against the Jedi Counsil.

[Brickadeer]

Didn't Obi-Wan recognize the bounty hunter sabotating the shield only thanks to the flickering?

No, he just realized that someone was grabbing through the shield and to the shield generator.

Anyway, I watched the episode today, I must say, I'm not impressed. We still haven't been told what exactly Dooku's and Palpatine's reason for the whole plan have been, was it meant to lead into a situation like in the beginning of RoTS or was it meant to simply drive Anakin further to the dark side? I don't quite get it.

I adressed that issue already on p. 72.

Also, why would Cad Bane disguise as a Neimodian? Certainly the Republic would have closely watched any Neimodian. And why were the Magna droids so weak (losing their head didn't kill them back then)? They weren't nearly as strong as in RoTS, while Dooku was far weaker than in AotC (which might be because Anakin grew stronger, though, because of the dark side). And if there had been so many guards at the celebration, why did we only see half a dozen Senate Guards, two Clone Troopers and the Jedi? But if we forget about the plot holes and the fridge logic, which seems to be a necessity for this arc, it was okay. Some action, bounty hunters, and Palpatine driving Anakin against the Jedi Counsil.

I doesn't affect the plot how many guards there are, or how Cad Bane was disguised. I think that I nailed the important points on p. 72 as well. Palpatine sent away the guards; Obi Wan figured out that there was a 2nd plot of Dooku; Obi Wan managed to save the Chancellor. That was intended by Palpatine; the consequences were already laid out on p. 72.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Peanuts]

No, he just realized that someone was grabbing through the shield and to the shield generator.

*minor nitpick* But he saw him 8 seconds before he grapped through the shield, but while his disguise was flicking. But I don't think that's anything worth having an argument about.

I adressed that issue already on p. 72.

I doesn't affect the plot how many guards there are, or how Cad Bane was disguised. I think that I nailed the important points on p. 72 as well. Palpatine sent away the guards; Obi Wan figured out that there was a 2nd plot of Dooku; Obi Wan managed to save the Chancellor. That was intended by Palpatine; the consequences were already laid out on p. 72.

Sorry, I didn't read that. But the whole thing with the bounty hunters just to make Anakin feel let down? Sounds a bit contrived, if you ask me. While Bane's disguise indeed is irrelevant, the number of guards is an inconsistency, as Palpatine complained about this before. And, if Palpatine was more effectively protected, say, by the number of guards he was told to have, the kidnapping would have failed. While the background story was okay, it felt a bit like the "You know what would be awesome? A group of badass mercs kidnapping Palpatine. Let's do it!" kind of episode. But they managed to include some scenes which would fit into the context, like Anakin's dark moments, which definitely improved the overall episode.

[Mr Man]

While the background story was okay, it felt a bit like the "You know what would be awesome? A group of badass mercs kidnapping Palpatine. Let's do it!" kind of episode. But they managed to include some scenes which would fit into the context, like Anakin's dark moments, which definitely improved the overall episode.

It seems like that the more I think about it .

I liked the little background things, like both Senate Guards and Commandos where there, and the Shocktrooper arresting Bane at the end was a shocktrooper in one scene and a plain white one in the next scene.

[Brickadeer]

But the whole thing with the bounty hunters just to make Anakin feel let down? Sounds a bit contrived, if you ask me.

It is not only to make Anakin feel let down. It is equally about making him feeling inferior to Obi Wan. And it is equally about strengthening the bond between Anakin and Palpatine. If you think of Palpatine's arrest, when Anakin was forced to choose between Palpatine and Windu, he ultimately made his decision for Palpatine. And furthermore, the whole plot about Palpatine's assassination kept the Jedi Council busy. It kept ressources that could not be spent on finding the answer to question who the other Sith Lord is. And it strengthened Sidious' cover as Palpatine.

So basically Palpatine had an opportunity to advance his long time goals; why should he not have taken it?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

In defense of the "number of guards" that were present, put it this way. They all have their individual area of responsibility. It wouldn't make sense for them to all come rushing in as soon as the attack began. Perimeters would have still had to be maintained and certain VIPs guarded. Take Ahsoka for example, her responsibility was Senator Amidala. It wasn't her job to jump into the battle.

[Brickdoctor]

In defense of the "number of guards" that were present, put it this way. They all have their individual area of responsibility. It wouldn't make sense for them to all come rushing in as soon as the attack began. Perimeters would have still had to be maintained and certain VIPs guarded. Take Ahsoka for example, her responsibility was Senator Amidala. It wasn't her job to jump into the battle.

They had tanks. That was like a battalion of clones, not a security detail.

Funny, these plot holes are all the same ones I pick on in my upcoming review of the episode for the blog.

[Brickadeer]

They had tanks. That was like a battalion of clones, not a security detail.

Funny, these plot holes are all the same ones I pick on in my upcoming review of the episode for the blog.

Since the actual behaviour of the clones would not have changed the outcome of the story, I'd consider it a minor detail, not really a plot hole.

[Artanis I]

Anakin, on the other hand, returns this loyality: "As long as I live, no harm will ever come to you, your excellency!", which sounds pretty much like a promise or an oath.

Funny thing is, he dies shortly after bringing harm to him at the end of ROTJ... And to quote the old Obi Wan: "the jedi that was [Luke's] father died when..." Mace Windu brought harm to him near the end of ROTS!

We still haven't been told what exactly Dooku's and Palpatine's reason for the whole plan have been

Also, why would Cad Bane disguise as a Neimodian? Certainly the Republic would have closely watched any Neimodian.

Dooku's plan would've been to capture the Chancellor. I don't think he knows he is in fact his master. If he did, he wouldn't have shoved him around like that I don't think. There was no indication at any stage that he knew. I could be wrong.

Lot Dodd is a Neimoidian senator for the republic, Nute Gunray is in charge of the Trade Federation. It has been stated in a previous episode that they don't agree on each other's practices/methods. The senator was present.

[Brickadeer]

Funny thing is, he dies shortly after bringing harm to him at the end of ROTJ... And to quote the old Obi Wan: "the jedi that was [Luke's] father died when..." Mace Windu brought harm to him near the end of ROTS!

TCW is about how Anakin became Vader. So I can't see that ROTJ is the adequate reference system for this scene.

Dooku's plan would've been to capture the Chancellor. I don't think he knows he is in fact his master. If he did, he wouldn't have shoved him around like that I don't think. There was no indication at any stage that he knew. I could be wrong.

I'm not sure on that either, but I would not find it plausible that a Sith Lord doesn't know the true identity of his Master who made him a Sith Lord. I think that Palpatine knew about Dooku's plan; that's why he brought Anakin in, and that's why he said he would never regret his decision to bring Anakin in. He knew what would happen, so he knew about the plan.

At least, in ROTS Dooku knew about his identity. That's why he looked so horrified about Sidious treason, that is to make Anakin kill Dooku.

Lot Dodd is a Neimoidian senator for the republic, Nute Gunray is in charge of the Trade Federation. It has been stated in a previous episode that they don't agree on each other's practices/methods. The senator was present.

Even if this right, it does in no way affect the main storyline, but is a minor detail that one may be upset about to different degrees :)

Edited February 13, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Brickdoctor]

Since the actual behaviour of the clones would not have changed the outcome of the story, I'd consider it a minor detail, not really a plot hole.

Good point.

Speaking of security clones, the roles of the clones are becoming confusing. Clearly, the Shock Troopers have taken on the role of actual security, but the Senate Troopers have no real role. They're not ceremonial, because they still apparently use full-fledged armor and blasters, rather than the decorative rifles and robes seen in Menace. I really would like to see the Senate Troopers go back to Senate Guards, from which they can transition into Red Guards. (who should be appearing soon, now that we've moved on to a stage of the war when Phase II clones have been introduced)

[Brickadeer]

Good point.

Speaking of security clones, the roles of the clones are becoming confusing. Clearly, the Shock Troopers have taken on the role of actual security, but the Senate Troopers have no real role. They're not ceremonial, because they still apparently use full-fledged armor and blasters, rather than the decorative rifles and robes seen in Menace. I really would like to see the Senate Troopers go back to Senate Guards, from which they can transition into Red Guards. (who should be appearing soon, now that we've moved on to a stage of the war when Phase II clones have been introduced)

I found the presence of the Shock Troopers carrying heavy rifles relatively disturbing, since they constituted a strong contrast to the nature of the reason why the Chancellor was present, a celebration day. I'm not sure if this contrast, celebrating people on the one hand, an emergency situation on the other hand, was intended or not, but it would make sense.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Brickdoctor]

I found the presence of the Shock Troopers carrying heavy rifles relatively disturbing, since they constituted a strong contrast to the nature of the reason why the Chancellor was present, a celebration day. I'm not sure if this contrast, celebrating people on the one hand, an emergency situation on the other hand, was intended or not, but it would make sense.

Right, but what bugs me is that if the Senate Troopers were there just to be part of the celebration ceremony, why not make them Senate Guards? This would have been the perfect episode to make that transition back.

[Brickadeer]

Right, but what bugs me is that if the Senate Troopers were there just to be part of the celebration ceremony, why not make them Senate Guards? This would have been the perfect episode to make that transition back.

Ah ok. I have no idea behind the reasoning to use different kinds of troopers and no guards. Since the Senate Troopers were patrolling the immediate area around the shielded platform, I'd say their function was not merely ceremonial, especially since they knew there was a threat.

[Mr Man]

Right, but what bugs me is that if the Senate Troopers were there just to be part of the celebration ceremony, why not make them Senate Guards? This would have been the perfect episode to make that transition back.

There was some Senate Guards as well as the Commandos, they both have different helmets (Senate Guards had the same helmets as worn by Captain Taggart from a few episodes ago).