[MOC] Farming equip (to be disclosed later)

[Mr Jos]

I've just started on a new MOC design, completely different from what I usually do [Automated machines]. This will be a vehicle, but with loads of movements and big, huge!

Original collapsed dimensions +15m long, 3.5m wide, 4m high. 

I will start to try design it in Studio at a 1:17.5 (140mm = 1 stud). This results in a model 108studs long, 25studs wide and 28 studs high (86cm x 20cm x 22.5cm). I will have to see if this scale is doable to get all the functions inside (and working), else I need to go to a bigger scale perhaps. I haven't worked by first designing in studio before, normally I work in real and later make the model just for instructions.

 

First question as I'm not into "cars/trucks/anything with wheels" at all untill now, I don't know what wheels would be possible for this.

[Type1 real] 173cm x 27.5cm: equals ~12.3studs x 2 studs, equals ~99mm x 16mm [Small sidewalls; 270-95R48]

[Type2 real] 158cm x 74.5cm: equals ~11.3studs x 5.3 studs, equals ~90mm x 42mm [Big sidewalls; 750-65R26]

 

If anyone got recommendations for those, or tires/rims that would fit both but at a bigger scale [I can still adjust easily as I haven't really started much], please leave some feedback.

 

[EDIT]: What I just found on bricklink; 88517 = 75mm D. x 17mm rim + 11957 = 100.6mm Tire. Totalling a 100.6mm x 17mm this is pretty near the ~99mm x 16mm.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

@Mr Jos as someone who makes lots if calculations dor my machinery (agriculture, etc...), I can see that one of your choice is to use 750/65R26 tire. Real tire with this dimension is agriculture / forestry tire with 1650mm overall diameter. Reading dimensions in your post gives me one idea for tires if you want to make 100% Lego MOC. If you put 94.8x44 baloon tire inside Claas Xerion (107 x 44 R tire tractor) and put both them on 56mm rim, you will get some 110mm tire which will be cloae to 1:15 scale and 94.8 tire inside will give you more stiffness.

I hope this post will be at least little use for your project.

Good luck and I wish you plenty of available time.

[Mr Jos]

11 minutes ago, 1gor said:

@Mr Jos as someone who makes lots if calculations dor my machinery (agriculture, etc...), I can see that one of your choice is to use 750/65R26 tire. Real tire with this dimension is agriculture / forestry tire with 1650mm overall diameter. Reading dimensions in your post gives me one idea for tires if you want to make 100% Lego MOC. If you put 94.8x44 baloon tire inside Claas Xerion (107 x 44 R tire tractor) and put both them on 56mm rim, you will get some 110mm tire which will be cloae to 1:15 scale and 94.8 tire inside will give you more stiffness.

 

I hope this post will be at least little use for your project.

Good luck and I wish you plenty of available time.

Thanks, looks like a real good suggestion, certainly with the extra stiffness. A 1:15 would result in the model being just over 1meter long. The front tires I already found were exactly a fit for 1:17.5 (100mm). So I'll try to find another 120mm x 2studs front tire. Else I'll just stick with those for now.

It's my first agriculture design, but pretty fun to try to make this harvester.

[1gor]

Can I ask which one (some "licensed" or generic)?

Sounds like Ropa potato harvester

...or Grimme...

[Mr Jos]

10 minutes ago, 1gor said:

Can I ask which one (some "licensed" or generic)?

Sounds like Ropa potato harvester

...or Grimme...

Licensed, let's say I'll need loads of red, but it's not Grimme! And indeed a potato harvester. I've got my hands on the complete 3D file.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

Looking forward to your choice (and development of course). 

[Maaboo the Witch]

DeWulf?

[Mr Jos]

1 hour ago, Maaboo the Witch said:

DeWulf?

You looked what country I'm living at?

 

EDIT: Seems I have 4 of those rims, also in yellow. But not any of the correct tires (I've got 94.3x38R).

So I'll change my idea to scale 1:15 to fit the rear tires. Changing the frame to 124 studs long, 29studs wide, 33 studs high. [122mm / stud]

Thanks for the help already @1gor!

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

No problem, but you'll need lots of frames to make stiff structure.

As I see DeWilf has white rims at the front...but let us be pleasently surprized.

Edited November 26, 2023 by 1gor

[1gor]

There is also tracked version, but I could not gind if there are possibilities to put one fat (so called flotation) tire instead of two thin (row crop) tire at the front...

https://www.potatopro.com/nl/news/2022/dewulf-kwatro-finds-extremely-good-flow?amp

[Mr Jos]

4 hours ago, 1gor said:

There is also tracked version, but I could not gind if there are possibilities to put one fat (so called flotation) tire instead of two thin (row crop) tire at the front...

https://www.potatopro.com/nl/news/2022/dewulf-kwatro-finds-extremely-good-flow?amp

The version I'll be making is set already, as I only received the design for that one (which my brother works on). A pretty impressive 6 wheeler.

 

Unfortunatly the rear hubs are an even amount of studs apart from eachother. And as I've never made a vehicle, I'll need to look very good which hubs to use. But I'ld like to keep the real functionality as much as possible. All 6 wheels steering normal or crab. I don't know if I'll use linear actuators or just small servo's like geekservo connected to a LMS-ESP32. But this model is loaded! with hydraulic cylinders. To bad Lego pneumatics are not suitable to replace those for steering.

[1gor]

Since it is slow wehicle reduction hubs are suggested...

Currently (as I could hardly find time for it) I'm working on 1:15 JCB Fastrac 4220 with 2 PF servos (one on each axle) and 2 PF XL motors and planetary hubs from 42099 set.

I spent few years to find out how to make motorized multiple steering modes and only compact solution that I came out is with 2 PF servos.

Several years ago I was thinki g about Grimme Tectron 415 with tracks (now there are sprockets from CAT and Liebherr) and 750/65R26 ar the rear (perfect for 1:15 scale)

[Maaboo the Witch]

Nice use of the motocross wheels!

[Mr Jos]

@1gor as you know a lot about these type of tires/hubs (others can of course help too);

Which type of wheels hubs would be able to create these kind of turning angles? (I don't have many CV joints/hubs/tires yet, so can't test in real)

The angles I put all 6 wheels at are the real maximal degrees. I have a feeling that the CV joints can not reach this amount of degrees.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

Hubs (and joints) from 42099 set (reduction hubs) have bigger steering angle to ebable smaller turning cycle. They are also much more robust than older hubs (like one from 42054 set) and CV joints that fit in 42054 hubs sometimes tend to fall out under high preasure.

Here you can see reduction hub on my front axle solution...

 

So you can use 4 of them at the rear because they are driven in your (future) MOC

Edited November 26, 2023 by 1gor

[Mr Jos]

20 hours ago, 1gor said:

Hubs (and joints) from 42099 set (reduction hubs) have bigger steering angle to enable smaller turning cycle. They are also much more robust than older hubs (like one from 42054 set) and CV joints that fit in 42054 hubs sometimes tend to fall out under high preasure.

Here you can see reduction hub on my front axle solution...

 

So you can use 4 of them at the rear because they are driven in your (future) MOC

Thanks, learning a lot.

Still much to modify for the axle, but trying to figure out if the turning angle of 32° for the back most wheels would work with the highlighted part?

It looks very very close in studio, but I'ld like to wait placing a bricklink order untill I have more designed and can set a bigger order.

 

For the front 2 wheels, they are direct driven by individual hydro motors in the real model, but by lack of them I'll either have to put geekservo motors, CADA motors, or any other small motors directly on the wheel to be able to get a !58°! steering angle. No hub would allow such an angle I think.

[1gor]

In this article writes down that max steering angle with reduction hubs are 40°.

https://www.newelementary.com/2019/08/lego-technic-review-42099-4x4-x-treme.html?m=1

 

If this additional info makes sense for you; reduction is 5.4:1

Edited November 27, 2023 by 1gor

[2GodBDGlory]

1 hour ago, Mr Jos said:

For the front 2 wheels, they are direct driven by individual hydro motors in the real model, but by lack of them I'll either have to put geekservo motors, CADA motors, or any other small motors directly on the wheel to be able to get a !58°! steering angle. No hub would allow such an angle I think.

I'm curious--would it be an option to just have a second U-joint so you can split the angle between two joints? Or you could try just using a bevel gear setup in place of any universal/CV joint in order to get more articulation? (though bracing it could be hard)

[Mr Jos]

1 hour ago, 1gor said:

In this article writes down that max steering angle with reduction hubs are 40°.

https://www.newelementary.com/2019/08/lego-technic-review-42099-4x4-x-treme.html?m=1

 

If this additional info makes sense for you; reduction is 5.4:1

Great, just let my self go as I'm sitting sick at home. Ordered the wheels, hubs, steering racks some frames and way to much more usefull things I won't need soon 

Now to wait for packages from Slovenia and Denmark, guess that counts as an early christmass or 'Sinterklaas'.

1 minute ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'm curious--would it be an option to just have a second U-joint so you can split the angle between two joints? Or you could try just using a bevel gear setup in place of any universal/CV joint in order to get more articulation? (though bracing it could be hard)

The real front wheels are not connected to each other/a single motor. They both have their hydraulic motor inside the steering hub.

[1gor]

First of all I wish you fast recevery. With time I have learned that best medicine is natural food...and ironically we both make agricilture MOCs that are characteriatic for pesticide era in agriculture

[2GodBDGlory]

3 hours ago, Mr Jos said:

The real front wheels are not connected to each other/a single motor. They both have their hydraulic motor inside the steering hub.

True; it might be simpler to do it mechanically, but it does sound more interesting to use extra motors if you're happy to do that!

[Mr Jos]

A first real build update.

I made the rear suspension as I received the first of 2 BL orders I made Monday. I wanted to test the rigidity and independent suspension working + see how the motors perform.

I don't really like that the platform sits so high already. I'ld like it to get lower, originally I even wanted to use the new bigger shocks, but they are way to long and stiff.

The issue with trying to place the shocks lower is that they get in the way of the hubs. Driving and steering works fine, I used a Technic hub for the first time and programmed them with PyBricks online, it's very well documented!

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

Reduction hubs come sometimes to close to shocjs when you want to make MOC with narrow turning cycle.

They are often a problem if you want to make narrow (and realistic) MOC. 

Your solution looks good. My suggestion is to make rough ladder chassis (with frames) and all wheels and then put some weight on them to see how it (suspension) will behave.

Nice to see you are continuing your project.

[Mr Jos]

6 minutes ago, 1gor said:

Reduction hubs come sometimes to close to shocjs when you want to make MOC with narrow turning cycle.

They are often a problem if you want to make narrow (and realistic) MOC. 

Your solution looks good. My suggestion is to make rough ladder chassis (with frames) and all wheels and then put some weight on them to see how it (suspension) will behave.

Nice to see you are continuing your project.

Yeah thought so that shocks can't really go lower with these narrow widths. The top frame was a quick one now indeed, but it still needs another set of shocks and a frame to allow suspension in the length direction. I'll try tomorrow to make a compact extra frame.

The steering motor is what I currently have, but I'll change it later with a much smaller motor with encoder, if I manage to buy 1.

And I hope that the second package arrives Monday, that one has all 6 rims and front tires. I can then start making a complete frame.

EDIT; And about the weight, the suspension has a liftarm in the middle that can support all the weigth, the shocks only push it back to center after going over rough terrain.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mr Jos

[1gor]

About weight I was thinking what kind if shocks and what quantity you will need in the end. I suppose red are from Porsche GT3 - the hard ones?