Star Wars is kinda fading

[Minishark2000]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:09 AM, baublitz said:

Maybe there are more factors at play, but compared to the release of the Millennium Falcon a few years ago, I was definitely "oh yeah I gotta keep the collection growing and grab every (UCS) set! To more of a "ugh, they really want another $800 for this and $500 for that, and they did what!? to the design??"

Maybe I was jaded, but now I'm definitely much more selective in my purchases.

I definitely think yeah UCS pricing has gotten a little insane the past let's say 4 years? Like man I remember me and my dad getting Obi Wan's Jedi starfighter UCS from Toys R Us for halfprice at $60 in 2010, like it was yesterday. I take a look at the current UCS stuff, and yeah ok there is a cheap option and a crazy expensive option always available, but c'mon the cheaper option should be something that gets our blood pumping, e.g. the UCS Slave I, Vader's Tie advanced, etc instead of the UCS landspeeder however nice the build may be. Yeah you could tell me we've gotten an A-wing, X-wing ok I admit those are cool but these really push the definition of "cheaper" UCS sets, especially the X-wing being $320 CAD for 1900 pieces. Imo once it crosses 250 it no longer feels like it's worth it for the cheaper option, you feel like you should have just bought a modular or something. Just look at the UCS Slave I, beautiful awesome set, 1900ish pieces for 230 CAD back in the day. With inflation it's 287 CAD, which is past my 250 thing I said earlier, but cmon it's the Slave I of course you're gonna feel good buying a Slave I, but I'm never going to feel good spending 300 CAD for Luke's Landspeeder. Not exactly sure if I was very coherent, just some thoughts in my head to spew out. The upcoming Tie Interceptor is a pretty cool and intimidating ship though, so hopefully it as the cheaper option is worthy of the spend.

 

Oh the days when you could buy a super star destroyer for less than $500, those were the days...

[Flieger]

Very interesting topic, and an important one. I think it is good to have a seperate thread for it rather than than discussing it in the news section over and over again. I got two points which I would like to add:

1) minifig quality: Seriously, this is puzzling. The minifigs, on which LSW depends 100%, are of low quality compared to what other themes get. Obviously this has not escaped attention but that is only because the gap between LSW and, say, Ninjago is insanely huge. The numbers of new moulds and luxurious prints over there is staggering. We did not even get a new visor piece for Cody and Fox so that their helmets look bad. Kamas, if they are printed, should be printed around the legs and not just on the front. Baylan Skoll, the main antagonist of Ahsoka, did not get an orange blade or should armour but an ill-fitting hair piece. R2-prints are notoriously wonky and more often than not ignore the back. And so on... I do not mind if Lego gets something wrong when based on prelimary artworks but LSW's minifigs appear increasingly low effort.

2) delays:Night Troopers, Enoch and Thrawn to name one example... so cool yet why are their Lego counterparts not even in sight? Instead of capitalizing on the moment Lego waits a year. Maybe they have to, due to information blackout by Disney (very nice of them) or due to long development processes, or both. I do not know. Fact is that the customers, we, cannot make impulse purchases. The moment the troopers chanted Thrawn's name I was pumped and ready to buy 10 BPs and the large Chimera set. Only no such things were available. Now, after time and reflections have cooled my head, I am a lot less likely to spend this much money. The hype is gone. And this is a recurring problem with LSW. Again, Lego may not be to blame, but it is what it is.
(And even if the Night Troopers come, see point 1... knowing Lego they won't look as good as they could.)

[muhkuh]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:09 PM, baublitz said:

Maybe there are more factors at play, but compared to the release of the Millennium Falcon a few years ago, I was definitely "oh yeah I gotta keep the collection growing and grab every (UCS) set! To more of a "ugh, they really want another $800 for this and $500 for that, and they did what!? to the design??"

Maybe I was jaded, but now I'm definitely much more selective in my purchases.

Long time ucs collector,

i can say i have huge Lego Collection (25k+) early times i bought sets right away but i struggle because of prices and big 800+sets every year… its to much… beside of the prices the quality is a huge problem for me… its gettin worse and worse… and i feeling they dont wanna change something…

Since few month i have kind lost the grind for LEGO its getting boring because of lame sets.

[Japanbuilder]

For me it is pricing overall that makes me tepid on a lot of LEGO products not just Star Wars. Was stoked to get the new 30$ battlepack but here in Japan most places are charging 50$ for it. It feels like playing with fans' love of the series and not a way to make them happy. So I will be holding off on it just like I did with the 501st battlepack which did not come down to a 30$ equivalent for nearly 2 years until I was able to finally get a few them. Also quality overall is a bit hit or miss it feels. The commander Fox for, example is atrocious, considering the price of the set he comes in.

[Horation]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:36 PM, Flieger said:

 minifig quality: Seriously, this is puzzling. The minifigs, on which LSW depends 100%, are of low quality compared to what other themes get. Obviously this has not escaped attention but that is only because the gap between LSW and, say, Ninjago is insanely huge. The numbers of new moulds and luxurious prints over there is staggering. We did not even get a new visor piece for Cody and Fox so that their helmets look bad. Kamas, if they are printed, should be printed around the legs and not just on the front. Baylan Skoll, the main antagonist of Ahsoka, did not get an orange blade or should armour but an ill-fitting hair piece. R2-prints are notoriously wonky and more often than not ignore the back. And so on... I do not mind if Lego gets something wrong when based on prelimary artworks but LSW's minifigs appear increasingly low effort.

This is because each theme gets a limited number of new part slots (storage boxes) per year in the factory, so a pair of printed legs means : 1 part for the unprinted right leg, 1 for the unprinted left leg, 1 for the piece connecting them, 1 for the printed right leg, 1 for the printed left leg, and 1 for the whole assembly, that's 6(!) parts for one half of a figure, and even if I assume they already make the legs and connector in those colours, that's 3 slots.

If you want to print them on the front, back and sides (for printed kamas), you will need, as follows : 1 unprinted right leg, 1 unprinted left leg, 1 connector, and then you can print, but due to machine designs, you will need to turn the pieces between each print, so 1 left leg printed on the front, 1 left leg printed on front and side, 1 left leg printed on front, side and back, 1 right leg printed on the front, 1 right leg printed on front and side, 1 right leg printed on front, side and back, and 1 whole, counting just the prints and assembly, that's 7 slots, you could instead add 7 recolours, 7 new pieces, etc... And while in house themes get new customers, Star Wars sells well pretty much no matter what, and don't forget that a kid doesn't really care about the lack of new visor pieces, or orange blades, or bl**dy kamas(which make it impossible to make a figure sit down). Now YOU and I both care, but we are adult collectors, AKA NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE, people seem to think AFOLs and TFOLs make up most sales, we don't, period.

And now you want them to invest dozens of part slots into these sets, so you (a minority of sales) can be a happy, in a theme that is seeing decreasing interest? From a userbase notorious for always being dissatisfied ("no one hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans"), now, if you truly believe that sir, well then you are crazier than me (and I'd like to think I am quite crazy sometimes).

[Flieger]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:59 PM, Horation said:

This is because each theme gets a limited number of new part slots (storage boxes) per year in the factory, so a pair of printed legs means : 1 part for the unprinted right leg, 1 for the unprinted left leg, 1 for the piece connecting them, 1 for the printed right leg, 1 for the printed left leg, and 1 for the whole assembly, that's 6(!) parts for one half of a figure, and even if I assume they already make the legs and connector in those colours, that's 3 slots.

If you want to print them on the front, back and sides (for printed kamas), you will need, as follows : 1 unprinted right leg, 1 unprinted left leg, 1 connector, and then you can print, but due to machine designs, you will need to turn the pieces between each print, so 1 left leg printed on the front, 1 left leg printed on front and side, 1 left leg printed on front, side and back, 1 right leg printed on the front, 1 right leg printed on front and side, 1 right leg printed on front, side and back, and 1 whole, counting just the prints and assembly, that's 7 slots, you could instead add 7 recolours, 7 new pieces, etc... And while in house themes get new customers, Star Wars sells well pretty much no matter what, and don't forget that a kid doesn't really care about the lack of new visor pieces, or orange blades, or bl**dy kamas(which make it impossible to make a figure sit down). Now YOU and I both care, but we are adult collectors, AKA NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE, people seem to think AFOLs and TFOLs make up most sales, we don't, period.

And now you want them to invest dozens of part slots into these sets, so you (a minority of sales) can be a happy, in a theme that is seeing decreasing interest? From a userbase notorious for always being dissatisfied ("no one hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans"), now, if you truly believe that sir, well then you are crazier than me (and I'd like to think I am quite crazy sometimes).

 

I do not believe you have any sales figures or hard data on LSW demographics. I for one doubt very much all sets are meant for kids, much less all minifigs (UCS Venator Yularen...). Just as well, I doubt kids do not care about the minifig quality - I did care when I grew up with Lego. Back then in 1990 I was amazed and happy about finally getting proper plate armour for my knights. It might be that younger people may not focus as much on details as some adults, but they do care. Otherwise it is hard to explain why Lego would invest so much effort into Ninjago figs which are meant for children, and much more so than LSW minifigs. Frankly, the dividing line is not adult vs kids, it is indifferent vs attentive.

Lego is simply able and willing to produce much better figures on mass for other themes, just not for LSW. I am merely holding Lego to Lego's own standards, i.e. one which they rather admirably adhere to in some other themes.
And let us not pretend it is all economic decisions: misprinting Yularen’s belt is as expensive as is printing it correctly. And yes, in a set with a price tag equalling my apartment’s monthly rent, aimed for adults and collectors, marketed as super-high-end-premium product deluxe, I want those details done right.

I am aware that I might be a minority in that particular case, but as you said it yourself: LSW is (apparently) faced with decreasing popularity. And I think the relative lack of minifig quality, of which there are so many examples on so many levels, is a reason for that. Btw., if I am wrong, and you do have data on the LSW demographics, please share.

Edited January 29 by Flieger

[Mandalorianknight]

2 hours ago, Flieger said:

why Lego would invest so much effort into Ninjago figs which are meant for children, and much more so than LSW minifigs. Frankly, the dividing line is not adult vs kids, it is indifferent vs attentive.

It's been fairly well-documented that lego's able to put more detail into unlicensed themes than licensed ones- Star Wars may sell as well as Ninjago (I don't remember the exact sales details but IIRC the two of them, city, friends, and technic are the top 5), but because of the fee Lucasfilm takes for lego selling sets with their IP, lego themselves aren't making as much off it as they are ninjago. (I don't really follow Technic, but I imagine it's a similar situation- I do follow Transformers and I know they become heavily restricted when making their figures turn into licensed real-world vehicles. Volkswagen wouldn't even let them make bumblebee a Volkswagen beetle for a good chunk of time.) Hence Ninjago has a larger budget for new molds, prints, etc.

Now that said it doesn't excuse print inaccuracies (though it's important to point out those aren't unique to SW either- ninjago had a whole wave that spelled "master" wrong on all the ninjas' robes). 

Edited January 29 by Mandalorianknight

[Horation]

1 hour ago, Flieger said:

 

I do not believe you have any sales figures or hard data on LSW demographics. I for one doubt very much all sets are meant for kids, much less all minifigs (UCS Venator Yularen...). Just as well, I doubt kids do not care about the minifig quality - I did care when I grew up with Lego. Back then in 1990 I was amazed and happy about finally getting proper plate armour for my knights. It might be that younger people may not focus as much on details as some adults, but they do care. Otherwise it is hard to explain why Lego would invest so much effort into Ninjago figs which are meant for children, and much more so than LSW minifigs. Frankly, the dividing line is not adult vs kids, it is indifferent vs attentive.

Lego is simply able and willing to produce much better figures on mass for other themes, just not for LSW. I am merely holding Lego to Lego's own standards, i.e. one which they rather admirably adhere to in some other themes.
And let us not pretend it is all economic decisions: misprinting Yularen’s belt is as expensive as is printing it correctly. And yes, in a set with a price tag equaling my apartment’s monthly rent, aimed for adults and collectors, marketed as super-high-end-premium product deluxe, I want those details done right.

I am aware that I might be a minority in that particular case, but as you said it yourself: LSW is (apparently) faced with decreasing popularity. And I think the relative lack of minifig quality, of which there are so many examples on so many levels, is a reason for that. Btw., if I am wrong, and you do have data on the LSW demographics, please share.

I do not have sales data, but I did read somewhere (can't remember where, sorry) that something like 3/4 of sales were being made to kids (or parents buying for kids), and I really, really doubt a majority of sales are being made to adults, but if you can prove me wrong...

I never mentioned UCS sets (which are indeed aimed at adults), I was talking about the main line of sets, which seem to be getting a lot of flack for being done less well. And you have proven my point for me about kids not caring about details, as a kid you liked the armour on your knights, which (and I'm saying this as a big fan of that piece) was NOT a proper period accurate plate armour piece, it do be that younger people don't focus on details like adults do, they care, yes, but they sure as heck won't notice the fact that the belt is backwards or the kamas aren't done all the way or that the helmets aren't movie accurate because of a few holes here and there, or something silly like that.

And let us not pretend this is all economic reasons, but let us instead acknowledge that this is all economic reasons. I do not think misprints are a good example, because they are NEVER intentional, and they often get fixed after some time (which ADDS costs, doesn't make sense to think they would do it to save costs, but moving on). As I was saying (and I do know this is true from several public interviews by designers), the reason why some figs get leg printing and others don't is due to parts budgets, the whole deal is that Ninjago gets a lot of parts (makes sense, it is an in-house theme selling to a wide market, intended to draw kids into the products), and that while Star Wars gets many, too, they don't get an infinity either, and you can get away with reusing the same figure for Ninjago without kids caring, but if you put a stormtrooper instead of a snowtrooper, they WILL notice, so there's no choice but to make tons and tons of different prints for all the figures, which lowers the parts budget for arm prints and the likes.