Star Trek 2 Mafia - Day Four

[Darkdragon]

3 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Phone-posting, yes.

Ah well, some things make more sense then.  Isn't it the worst? Maybe I'm old, but I don't like mafia on phones ha.

[Hinckley]

49 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

This makes no sense at all, it didn't make sense when Data did it and it doesn't make sense now. 

1000 times this. No more suicides!

50 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

 a huge wall of text

 

Sorry. I had to scroll down past a lot of text and I was like "Who is posting so much?" Spoiler alert: It was me.

[Hinckley]

13 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

But where does that leave you?

As the swing vote between two people with tunnel vision.

The perfect place for a scum win.

I don't disagree. I realize it could look this way, but I am Town so this would be a nightmare position for me and I truly do not want it. I knew as I was posting it, it could be read this way, but I have to take the risk because this needs to be addressed for us to get the clearest path to a Town victory. Dear Lord, if this ends up being the plan, Wesley, Forg, then me, for God's sake just put me first. If those two are both Town, I similarly would hate to either choose between you and Riker. I wouldn't mind defending myself on a Day Six but if I'm one of three remaining players on a potential Day Six and I get lynched, the Town loses. I'm the only one who knows that for sure, but we would lose.

Can't somebody act blatantly Scummy, please? Whoever the remaining Scum is, you're doing an amazing job right now. Everybody is acting like Townies. And yet, I could conceivably see any of you as Scum.

I am simply proposing to everyone that we create a plan to move forward and get all of these questions answered. The vote is currently split three ways with Picard and I currently withholding our votes. You've basically left it up to Picard and I to choose the best path forward and I doubt Picard is going to vote for himself. Wait, no, he's offered that several times. So, in what order do we want our suspicions answered? I guess it's silly to ask this when nobody's suspicions seem to line up. I'm trying to strategize so that we're all on the same page and have the best chance of beating the Scum. If I end up as today or tomorrow's lynch, fine. The Town would still have a chance, but if I get lynched on Day Six, the Town loses. Period. End of story.

@Fugazi Please explain why I would be your next candidate if Wesley flips Town.

[Pandora]

4 hours ago, Fugazi said:

Ha this is so rich. On the one hand if I'm focusing on Wesley I'm being tunnel minded. On the other hand if I raise concerns about anyone else, like Deanna, then I'm lining her up for the lynch because I'm a scummy scum.

I'm sorry you're cross, but you cannot equate three game days of relentless pursuit to lynch me with a couple of shady sentences about Deanna. If you made full and involved, reasoned cases against (or even for!) anybody else, then you might start to get close to parity.

4 hours ago, Fugazi said:

You know what?

What?

4 hours ago, Fugazi said:

I only have one vote, and it's my right to focus on anyone. It's how the game is played.

Yup, we're all just playing a game here. We all only have one vote, and we can all focus on anyone we want, but we cannot ignore everybody else to the exclusion of one player, because that is not how it's played. 

4 hours ago, Fugazi said:

Give me a good reason to vote for someone else and I will. But nobody has yet. And you haven't convinced me to vote for myself yet.

Does that mean that I might convince you to vote for yourself?  

 

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Wesley, it's not that I don't think it's possible that you're Town, it's that every solid argument you give can be seen either way. I trust you would be this skilled and determined to defend yourself, either way. You're one of the smartest players to play this game and I've been convinced enough that you're Town that I've switched my vote twice. Unfortunately, due to this setup, these questions still remain and it's the strongest case we've seen against anyone, in my opinion. Again, aren't you too smart to put yourself in that position if you were Scum? Probably! But, also, wouldn't it be worth the attempt, on Day One, to avoid a Scum buddy's lynch when nobody would be able to catch you with Night Actions and be sure of the perceived connection?

....You think that it's possible that both mostlytechnic and I made it really obvious in the thread that we were scum chums because nobody could catch us at night, but I thought I was so smart I could argue my way out of such a patently dumb move when he was being lynched. Yeah... it's.... possible. If I have a lobotomy.

It would most definitely not be worth the attempt at all. I would burn him faster than you could say "Mommy!" and ride out the rest of the game as a loyal Townie in an untouchable status. And if I had that idea, guess who else might have?

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

For Forg to be Scum, he'd have to have the knowledge of foresight to put himself in the best position by being the first to make a case against Beverly and vote for her. Perhaps, he noted all the Scummy things that Beverly was doing and found it best to set himself apart, assuming she would eventually be caught either way. Diabolical, yes. Occam's Razor has kept me from even considering this as a possibility but he has come in, day after day, and continued on Wesley without genuine concern for any other player. Except for me...because I'm inherently evil? Yeah, let's hear this. What else about me concerns you, Forg? Since I seem to be the only other one you have concerns about.

He's really not said that much about you, he's been really hoping I'd just die already. But there is now the fact that if I did die already, then you might all realise just how scummy he's been, so he has to cast around for other candidates. Of course he's smart enough to have done all this, in fact I even wonder if it was all deliberate with Bev cosying up to me, to make him untouchable and set me up to boot. Occam's Razor works best when you consider the scenario in which both he and I are smart, ie I'm Town and he's scum.

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

For Wesley to be Scum, he'd have to have known defending Beverly was a risk and taken that risk to put himself in the worst position for the rest of the game. Would he take this risk?

No.

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Would this format, that I don't believe he's played before, be enough to throw off his typical careful gameplay and take the risk to save his Scum buddy from a Day One lynch?

This Mafia Game format, that's strikingly similar to every other Mafia Game I've ever played? Again, No.

2 hours ago, Hinckley said:

I want to know what Wesley is already. Unfortunately, we're getting dangerously close to losing if we keep having to test people by lynching them. Is this the last chance to get the clarity regarding Wesley? If we lynch him today and he is Town, what does tomorrow look like? Do we lynch Forg, which none of us seem willing to do?

I've already said I am totally cool with you lynching me, on the proviso that as soon as you see I am Town you lynch Gorf. This isn't a suicide, because I'm not voting for myself. I'm not cool with just dying, but if it's driving you insane and if knowing I'm town will convince you that Gorf's scum, then I'm happy to be lynched to prove that point. If you're not willing to lynch Gorf tomorrow then I'm not willing to be lynched. Not that I have that much choice about it.

 

20 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

I call bullocks. Both Wesley and Deanna keep saying that I'm focused on Wesley without considering other options, but I remember having four suspects on day 2, and now my second biggest suspect is Deanna, as mentioned a couple of times. But let's ignore that, shall we?

Glad to see you're able to make it back again, especially as you were concerned about me "attacking" you when you might not be available.

On Day Two you posted a sentence, two at most, each about three other suspects than me. Two of them are now dead, so that valuable insight of yours is no longer needed. For me you launched a full-scale attack, that you have maintained ever since. Not comparable by any stretch of the imagination. 

20 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

I'm not saying that Wesley isn't clever or devious, quite the contrary. But it's Beverly who put him in a difficult position, and regardless of any PM conversations Wesley had little control over how Beverly would behave publicly and how it would all come across.

So we're back to it being all Beverly's fault, ok. And Beverly is dumb enough to behave like that?? Really, s/he might be surprised to hear that I disagree with that, and I think it was all carefully planned. Probably should have picked someone other than me, though.   

You are incredibly clever and devious Gorf. If you'd pulled this off it would have been a genius move, and there's no better game than this for it - you can't be caught out at night and you can't be investigated. Every death is by town consensus, you're not responsible. I really respect you for even trying this, but if you both really thought I would go without a fight, you were wrong.

 

Right, so some other things. In my eyes: It's not Picard because of his behaviour yesterday and also his willingness to look around him and consider other options. He could have hammered me so easily and he didn't. Similarly with Riker, it's not Riker. If he were scum it would be no effort at all to agree with Gorf and boot me out, we wouldn't be going round in (seeming) circles today and you'd all be arguing about something else. I had a wobble over Deanna, but it's not her either. Nobody, not even she, would expend this much mental energy debating this when she could just throw her hands up and say it's me and move on. It's not me either, I've checked, I'm definitely town. So my opinions on everyone else's Towniness is related to the fact that they could have just booted me out but haven't, and no scum would give up an easy lynch, especially if they could blame it on Gorf. All of these pertain to me being Town, so if you lynch me and see I'm Town after all, you can finally see that it's Gorf who's the scum. 

Of course, I'd much prefer it if you lynched Gorf instead, so there's that.

[Fugazi]

No scum would give up an easy lynch, yet I'm focused on Wesley when he's obviously not an easy lynch.  Look at it any way you want, my behavior since the start of this game is nothing like what scum would do.

I have the ability to post, but definitely not the time and computer to review multiple pages of posts and all that usual stuff. So there, you have me at a disadvantage.

That said, time is running out and we're giving scum the opportunity to choose for us. Won't you guys just make up your minds?

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Worf / Fugazi - 1 (Pandora)
Wesley Cruser / Pandora - 1 (Fugazi)
Jean-Luc Picard / Lind Whisperer - 1 (Darkdragon)

With five players remaining, a majority of 3 is required.

About 26 hours remain in this day.

[Lind Whisperer]

23 hours ago, Darkdragon said:

When someone writes something like this it looks very scummy - as in "I'm so townie I'll vote myself, just like that other guy did (so have a heart and don't lynch me)".  There's just no point in it at all.  Your whole exercise in who the scum would kill if they killed seems like something to look helpful but how helpful is it really? So you're guessing why someone might get scum killed but none of it makes any difference - I don't really think the scum would care who was dead as long as it was a townie.  I dunno, I've been called an idiot and lousy player  before so maybe I just can't wrap my thick head around something like that. I don't have any idea if you are posting from a phone which would explain it but man, quoting a huge wall of text but not actually addressing anything in it, while double-posting, is annoying

 

I wasn't piggybacking off of Data, I've been offering to self-vote since Day Two.

Troi and Wesley keep making the points I'd like to make before I make them. Repeating isn't helpful, and I thought Troi might be on to something with letting a scum kill. So I ran the numbers, trying to put myself in evey ones shoes.

The point was, if someone got scum-killed, would it give town any clues? Was there anyone itwould point the finger at?

I don't think so. Only point of letting a scum kill now would be to break this deadlock. And I think, it would probably be me, and we'd be right back where we started.

 

Six-ish hours left. No posts for nearly twenty hours.

 

Troi is doing triple duty, if scum. Riker's staying lowish profile, but nothing really other than that.

Wesley keeps dodging a lynch. Fworg is getting excited, and the closer the chance of him or Wesley getting lynched is, the more he offers other targets. Probably innocently but could also be pre-prep for after a Wesley lynch.

I'm almost tempted just to vote for Fworg. Wesley's putting a lot of eggs in one basket, if he's scum.

[Darkdragon]

Ah, thanks for getting back to me, 23 hours later.  I think all kills can definitely help us with clues, not just a scum night kill but even lynches.  I still feel like saying "ok, I'll just vote for myself" as a statement being worthless and it seems scummy to me.  No matter if your intentions are righteous or not on that matter, it doesn't change the way it looks in my eyes.  I also don't feel like Data made the right choice in actually voting for himself, but that's over now and the last 3 hours of the previous day were completely nuts so I'm sure it seemed like a good idea to him at the time.

I agree with you in Worf over Wesley, but I'm still unsure about Deanna as she could definitely handle something like this even if it did driver her somewhat insane. I really don't feel strongly enough about any of those three to move my vote though.

I might not be here for the last hour or two of the day, it completely depends on cell reception where I'm headed after work.  I will do my best to check in and answer questions though.

[Hinckley]

34 minutes ago, Darkdragon said:

 I will do my best to check in and answer questions though.

What questions would you be expecting?

[Darkdragon]

Just now, Hinckley said:

What questions would you be expecting? 

I'm not expecting anything just letting folks know I might not be around for the last hour or two but if anyone had questions for me I'll answer

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Worf / Fugazi - 1 (Pandora)
Wesley Cruser / Pandora - 1 (Fugazi)
Jean-Luc Picard / Lind Whisperer - 1 (Darkdragon)

With five players remaining, a majority of 3 is required.

About four hours remain in Day Four. Keep in mind that you must vote.

[Hinckley]

30 minutes ago, Bob said:

About four hours remain in Day Four. Keep in mind that you must vote.

Shut. Up. Computer.

Why does anybody trust Riker, exactly?

[Lind Whisperer]

Just now, Hinckley said:

Shut. Up. Computer.

Why does anybody trust Riker, exactly?

Probably because he hasn't done anything overtly attention drawing.

It could just be coincidence but I noticed that his posting stepped up since you started taking notice of him.

[Hinckley]

11 minutes ago, Lind Whisperer said:

Probably because he hasn't done anything overtly attention drawing.

AKA "flying under the radar."

The only other player who has even mentioned him is Wesley and he trusts Riker because he's been looking at multiple lynch candidates, AKA lynch candidates that aren't Wesley. But, Riker just keeps voting for Picard.

That "I'll be around to answer questions" really pinged me for some reason. I don't watch the show. Is it a roleplay thing? Is Riker the information booth?

Picard, are we both sitting around waiting for the other to vote? I'm definitely waiting to see what you're going to do. What are you going to do?

[Lind Whisperer]

Just now, Hinckley said:

That "I'll be around to answer questions" really pinged me for some reason. I don't watch the show. Is it a roleplay thing? Is Riker the information booth?

No, that would be either Data or you, as far as I know.

Riker is second mate and uses the "Riker Maneuver" to sit down.

 I'm a pre-Disney Wars fan, not a Trekkie.

7 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Picard, are we both sitting around waiting for the other to vote? I'm definitely waiting to see what you're going to do. What are you going to do?

"I was waiting to see what you were going to do!"

Eh. I promised Data I'd vote for one of two people. Think Fworg might be a twofer. That would mean that Wesley's slipped out of lynch two days in a row, but he's spent such time after Fworg, he's locking himself in a corner.

Riker's slippery, but @Fugazi is as ficused on Wesley as visa versa. Not enough votes.

We could try and have a scum kill, but not really sure what that would do - other than taking the responsibility out of our hands. Although I maintain that I'd be the likeliest scum target. Which would be almost as much use as if we vote to bump me off- which, I suppose, is a possibility.

[Lind Whisperer]

If you're really waiting on me...I guess Vote: Worf(Fugazi).

Not a fan, though. Not at all.

( I have maybe 10 more minutes before I'm AFK)

[Hinckley]

Ugh, that's what I was afraid of. I'm definitely leaning more towards Wesley and Riker is now bugging the shit out of me, due to the vanilla, under-the-radar play.

Everybody's Scum...

[Fugazi]

In short, the reason why I suspect Deanna is that she won't go through with a Wesley lynch. She keeps avoiding it by directing suspicions towards other players, or jumping on ill-advised bandwagons, like the one started by Wesley to get rid of Data. A scum might want to profit from the feud between Wesley and myself (assuming in this case that Wesley is town) by keeping us alive until the end, in which case it's obvious that we will keep fighting and he'll just pick one of us for the win -- scum win. It's a bit far-fetched, but nothing that Deanna wouldn't be capable of.

That said, I still lean more towards Wesley-scum.

[Lind Whisperer]

5 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

Ugh, that's what I was afraid of. I'm definitely leaning more towards Wesley and Riker is now bugging the shit out of me, due to the vanilla, under-the-radar play.

Everybody's Scum...

Wesley is almost as good as Fworg.

I thought you found Wesley more trustworthy? Though I'm not sure why I thought that.

Just now, Fugazi said:

A scum might want to profit from the feud between Wesley and myself (assuming in this case that Wesley is town) by keeping us alive until the end, in which case it's obvious that we will keep fighting and he'll just pick one of us for the win -- scum win. It's a bit far-fetched, but nothing that Deanna wouldn't be capable of.

This has already been hypothesized, by myself upthread.

[Fugazi]

Just now, Lind Whisperer said:

 

This has already been hypothesized, by myself upthread.

I was asked why I keep mentioning Deanna as my second suspect. If you mentioned it before, congratulations.

As for you, stop hiding behind "I promised Data to vote blahblah", because that's a copout and the more you repeat it the less honest it sounds.

[Pandora]

1 hour ago, Hinckley said:

The only other player who has even mentioned him is Wesley and he trusts Riker because he's been looking at multiple lynch candidates, AKA lynch candidates that aren't Wesley.

Not quite what I said. Naturally I prefer people who aren't trying to lynch me, but it is more the fact that in recent days it would have been very easy to just shrug and vote me out. And Riker didn't, and neither did Picard. At the end of the day a dead Townie is a dead Townie, so they could have lynched me, but didn't. That makes them more likely to be Town in my eyes. 

 

11 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

In short, the reason why I suspect Deanna is that she won't go through with a Wesley lynch.

It's taken you a while to come up with this. You've flitted in and out, and posted even, and now you say Deanna is scum because she won't lynch me and she wants to keep us both around? I really don't buy that at all. I mean, it's possible, but not as likely as you being scum. I guess you had to come up with some reason, though, but she's actively deciding between the two of us, so this really doesn't fit.

It should be crystal clear in everyone's mind right now that if I am lynched then the next lynch should be you, Gorf. I'm not advocating anyone else, like you are.

 

[Lind Whisperer]

4 minutes ago, Pandora said:

I'm not advocating anyone else, like you are.

Well, do.

What happens if Fworg is town? Who will you advocate then?

[Hinckley]

37 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

In short, the reason why I suspect Deanna is that she won't go through with a Wesley lynch. She keeps avoiding it by directing suspicions towards other players, or jumping on ill-advised bandwagons, like the one started by Wesley to get rid of Data. A scum might want to profit from the feud between Wesley and myself (assuming in this case that Wesley is town) by keeping us alive until the end, in which case it's obvious that we will keep fighting and he'll just pick one of us for the win -- scum win. It's a bit far-fetched, but nothing that Deanna wouldn't be capable of.

That said, I still lean more towards Wesley-scum.

Well, Jeebus, I can't lynch Wesley by myself. It would've been much different if Wesley had been hammered and then I un-voted. Well, both days anyway. That might've been what happened when we lynched Geordi. I honestly don't remember the specifics and we don't have much time. But whatever. I can't be held solely responsible for the lack of Wesley lynch, thus far.

The Picard "Welsey vs. Worf" waffling (not unlike my own, I'm aware) is that it is also the easiest place for him to sit on Day Six and the same with Riker. If Wesley and Forg are both Town then the remaining Scum would love to see us focus on them for the next two days and then have a 2v1 on Day Six. And Riker doesn't even have to vote for either one of them to achieve that.

How much time is left? I have a break. I'm going to grab a whiskey and obsess over the previous days, specifically looking at what our information booth has had to say.

[Pandora]

Just now, Lind Whisperer said:

What happens if Fworg is town? Who will you advocate then?

I don't think there's much of a case for any of you, but in the utterly unexpected situation where Gorf is somehow Town, I would reassess all three of you with a fine-toothed comb. I would consider what Gorf has said about some of you, and listen to what you're saying about each other. There's not much more I can say but that really.

[Hinckley]

Just now, Pandora said:

I don't think there's much of a case for any of you, but in the utterly unexpected situation where Gorf is somehow Town, I would reassess all three of you with a fine-toothed comb. I would consider what Gorf has said about some of you, and listen to what you're saying about each other. There's not much more I can say but that really.

Some of us? Has Gorf said anything about anybody but me?? :loko:

Hey, how Scummy would I look if allowed a night kill? It's easier to let the Scum remove one suspect from the list since I suspect all of you awful bitches. I suppose if I cause the Scum to have a night kill, they'd spare me since it would make me a good lynch target, negating my true wish-to be the night-kill target and be away from this game that is causing brain damage. And don't blame the whiskey! It's the game. Whiskey is always good.

* , although I feel LOKO!!