MOC: Apollo Launch Tower

[NathanR]

Some more updates, with good news... and sad news.

I've hooked up the lowermost swing-arm to the main axle using a "Universal Joint".  It's an amazingly simple linkage, but every time I see one in action I end up wondering what weird magic is happening to shift the axis of rotation. You can also see a sketch for the gantry that provides access for people to walk into the arm.

One "problem" with the universal joint is that it makes the bottom swing arm stick out at a slightly different angle to all the others:

However, they all line up at 90 degrees.  It turns out that a universal joint is actually what's called a non-CV joint, or non-constant-veolcity. The input axle turns at a fixed speed, the output axle will speed up and slow down as it turns round.  This means the bottom arm is rotated further than the others, but ill turn faster so that all arms hit the tower at the same moment.  At first I was annoyed by the arm sticking out, but then I came across a reference that this bottom arm was actually the last to disengage from the rocket in the milliseconds before launch.  By starting with at a greater angle, the arm will indeed "disengage" from the rocket last.. quite a nice touch really.

I've also been adding additional detailing up the side of the tower.  You can see here some pipes on the side of the tower (not sure what they actually did on the real one, but I guess they were important...?) and a "cable tray" on the back.  I'll probably swap out the grille bricks for 1x2 "logs", the patten looks more consistent when viewed from other angles.

Given how much the dark grey dominates, I'm wondering whether the 3x6 centre support column should be changed to light grey, to make it more visible.

I'm also wondering if the dark grey 1x1 supports on each layer, placed to make the central column have a 6x6 footprint, could also be removed.  I'm not sure if this would compromise the structure.

 

The sad news is, that the model has passed 4600 parts (should be 5200 but I deleted all the clips and grille pieces for the railings round each deck) and become too big for my poor laptop to handle.  I can't break the model into smaller chunks any more, details like the pipes running up the tower mean that I need to work on the whole thing to establish where connection points can go.  The full model is making the laptop run very hot, which will either shorten the laptop's lifetime or actually damage it.  To those of you who think I'm just being paranoid, my previous laptop had it's battery physically damaged and left unable to hold more than an hour of charge after thirty minutes playing a demo computer game. 

So the upshot is that I won't be working on this until I can either get to a more powerful computer, or find a Mac alternative to LDD that can actually handle such a huge model without burning out my laptop... 

[Shiva]

Remember Back Ups!

If you have finalized your support beams, then you could go and break the build into smaller files.. But so that the tops and bottoms are shared by the other parts. Or is it already too late for your Laptop to do this?

1: Base of platform + bottom lvl floor. "deck"

2: bottom lvl floor to 4th floor "deck"

3: 4th floor to 8th floor "deck"

etc ?

Hard part could be to remember and compute where you put the pieces that go from 1 file to the other.

I myself built/constructed a thing in 4 separate files. But that was way smaller than this build!

[NathanR]

17 hours ago, Shiva said:

If you have finalized your support beams, then you could go and break the build into smaller files.. But so that the tops and bottoms are shared by the other parts. Or is it already too late for your Laptop to do this?

It's a nice idea, but the model doesn't really have too many "break points".  The MLP, and Layers1-4, are already separate files, and stitching them back together for beauty shots is a nightmare.  LDD stutters and freezes while trying to work out where the parts are to snap in.

Details like control boxes on each level, or the individual swing arms, they can be made in separate files. 

But the pipes up the side... even looking at the full model I struggle to see how to connect them, and I can't even begin to figure out how they would be placed if I was working across multiple files, e.g levels 4-8, 9-12...  

I've spent some time looking at alternative editors, but I use a Mac and there's not really any choice.  Bricksmith/LDraw works but struggles with the model and is really painful to work with. Mecabricks is fantastic, but there's no export option or (apparently) any way to get a list of pieces at the end. I will have to get the model into both, eventually, so I can create an instruction manual and fancy photo-real renders.

I really want to finish this model, though, so I will try and figure something out.

 

[Shiva]

ouch!

I wish you a better machine, asap :)

[supertruper1988]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:13 PM, NathanR said:

So the upshot is that I won't be working on this until I can either get to a more powerful computer, or find a Mac alternative to LDD that can actually handle such a huge model without burning out my laptop... 

Have you tried Stud.io from bricklink? I have found it works pretty good but I also have 16gb of ram in my MBP. 

[NathanR]

6 hours ago, supertruper1988 said:

Have you tried Stud.io from bricklink? I have found it works pretty good but I also have 16gb of ram in my MBP. 

I'd forgotten about that one... that basically uses LDraw behind the scenes doesn't it?  My MBP has 16Gb of ram, but it doesn't have a dedicated graphics card so the problem (I think) is handling the sheer number of 3D objects on screen at the same time.  Have you tried Sud.io with large models?

[supertruper1988]

I have opened rather large models and it seems to do ok. It is Ldraw in the back ground but I have found that it can convert the LXF files pretty reliably. If you are more concerned, you can update the ldraw.xml file as detailed in this thread. Then open that file in Stud.io.

[NathanR]

On 21/03/2018 at 3:43 PM, supertruper1988 said:

I have opened rather large models and it seems to do ok. It is Ldraw in the back ground but I have found that it can convert the LXF files pretty reliably. If you are more concerned, you can update the ldraw.xml file as detailed in this thread. Then open that file in Stud.io.

Cool, I will check that out over the weekend!

In the meantime, a small update, I just finished the first service arm that linked to the middle of the S-1C.

It's a little blockier than I'd have liked, but I can't come up with a better way of making it.  The arm needs to be built "sideways", but the driving axle for moving the arms needs to be vertical.  I could really use a version of 6536 with two axles holes, instead of an axle and pin hole. The compromise is to mount the arm on a pair of 42003, and rely on the technic half pins to stop the arm from flopping.  If anyone has suggestions for an improvement, I'd be grateful to hear them.

Edited March 26, 2018 by NathanR

[BrickWild]

If only you could make the tower 'modular' so that it can be easily transported or stored in a confined space.

[NathanR]

On 25/03/2018 at 1:18 AM, BrickWild said:

If only you could make the tower 'modular' so that it can be easily transported or stored in a confined space.

I'm not sure there are any "break points" in the pipes going up the tower... And the main drive axle for the swing arms is not going to come off easily.  I imagine the whole tower might shatter if you tried to disassemble it.  It's something I can look into once the model is finished I guess.

I've spent the last few days working on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th swing-arms, which connected to the S-1C (forward), the interstage, and the S-II (aft). Trying to find strong connections is tricky enough, finding versions where the parts all exist in red has been quite frustrating.  However, I've managed to capture most of the gantries and the fuel pipes/cables.

The only flaw is a missing fuel pipe that runs along the side of the topmost of these three arms.  Unfortunately, when the arms are swung back (rotated to 90 degrees) there is only a half-beam thickness gap between the tower and the arm. A 3.18mm bar would fit, but there is no way to attach it without the clips colliding with the tower.

 

In other news, I've been experimenting with LDD 4.3.11 (I delayed updating from 4.3.10 because it seemed to be more intensive on the CPU), and it *seems* to handle large models a little better. Turning down the graphics settings a bit has also helped.  I might be able to keep going on the main file after all.  Only problem is, I'm seeing rounding errors/fractional offsets creeping in as I go up the tower.  I may need to rebuild the whole file from scratch... again...

[NathanR]

I'm slowly working my way up the tower, adding in more details as I go.  The model its currently on 4800 pieces.  It's funny how once you pass about 4000 parts, you stop caring about what it will cost and just keep building.  There will be at least another 1000...

 

The cluster of three swing-arms has had a slight overhaul, based on a card model LUT build-up I found on a scale model forum.  The most notable change is the inclusion of a white stripe on the top arm, to represent one of the larger fueling pipes.  It's a bit crude, but once the arm swings into the tower there is only a half-beam width to work with.

I'm also slowly working my way up the front of the tower, adding a stripe on the left-hand side. It can only be one tile thick - with a plate, the studs would get in the way of the swing arms.  So it becomes a fun challenge trying to get at least two connection points for each 1x6 or 1x8 tile.  And LDD allows half pins to connect to pin holes, even when the half-pin/plate connection is completely illegal. 

The biggest update this time round is the fuel pipes up the side of the tower.  The tallest must be the equivalent of a 40L axle or something, running up the tower with only one connection point at the top. A nice detail, and one which isn't quite "in-system", is where a pipe "crosses over" about a third of the way up.  It's two axle connector #1 with a 3L axle, pulled very slightly apart.

There are two problems with the fuel pipes.  The full set at the base is too wide, there are 7 pipes and I think I should only use 6, but I can't figure out which pipe to delete (I already got it down from 11 on the real one). I need the space to add in two silver-grey pipes on the righthand edge. 

The other problem is that the pipes just stop on the side of the tower without going anywhere... I've tried looking for reference photos that show where they are supposed to go, but there don't seem to be any. In fact, my google searches are starting to return more and more of the images I've posted in this thread... 

 

[Shiva]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_11_rollout.jpg I am sure you have seen that page/picture earlier.

[NathanR]

12 hours ago, Shiva said:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_11_rollout.jpg I am sure you have seen that page/picture earlier.

Thanks for the suggestion. But what I mean is, the fuel pipes go up the side of the tower to some level, then get routed either from the ceiling or floor of that level to one of the umbilical arms.

For example, in this CAD image of a never-released brass model kit, you can see a load of pipe work suspended from the ceilings of a few levels, and threaded around the tower to carry the fuel from the pipes on the side to the swing arms: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36194.msg1570868#msg1570868. That's the kind of detail I'm going for... though maybe I'm overdoing it...

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by NathanR

[NathanR]

Well, it was a busy and productive easter weekend for me. With the main structure in place, I'm focusing now on the little details as I slowly work up the tower.  

I think the most fun I had was putting in the access staircases for these three swing-arms.  The real ones were made from metal grilles, but I went with solid walls here.  There's just enough room to put a nanofigure on there!  I've also added in a series of small gantries, sticking out from the side of the tower (you can see one top left of the picture).  These small platforms had high-speed cameras mounted on them, to film the rocket's launch and each arm as it swung back.  Lastly, you can just about see where I've started drafting the control boxes that dot each level:

 

Around the rest of the tower, I've been adding in more pipes running up the sides of the tower.  I've no idea what they all are - I think they are a mix of fuel lines, water pipes and electrical cables.

The latest pipes aren't quite in system, and require the axles to be pulled apart ever so slightly.  No more than 0.1mm, which is about the separation between two bricks placed next to each other, but it is a little irritating .  You can also see where I've started detailing the base of the launch pad.  Adding in the pin holes to support the pipes has broken the interlocking pattern, so I may need to look again at how strong it is.

The model is now at 5597 pieces...

[Shiva]

Whoa!

+ you're adding even more details than I tought.

What was my piece count estimate?

/edit:

Seems I never did a piece count estimate. Only a cost estimate.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Shiva
checked my earlier posts.

[NathanR]

On 05/04/2018 at 2:35 AM, Shiva said:

+ you're adding even more details than I tought.

It is possible I'm overdoing it now... 

 

I've also been working on the staircase to go up the tower!  I can't believe it took me all night to come up with this:

Of course, now I think about, there are some levels which are one plate shorter, which means this design won't fit   Any ideas for a good one-stud-wide microscale staircase?

I think the end is at last in sight.  All that remains are a few swing-arms, the control boxes on each level of the tower, and the crane on top.  And then of course, the instruction manuals....

[NathanR]

Just back from a late Easter vacation, and for the last two weeks this model has been largely forgotten 

New additions are swing arms 5 and 6, for the forward end of the S-II and the aft end of the S-IVb.  For some reason, no one seems to have taken photos of these two arms on the real LUT - I've been working off blurry photos of finished papercraft models and a very highly detailed (but hard to read) blueprint from when the towers were being designed. Swing arm 6 has been an absolute nightmare, and is in fact missing an 11M string pieces to represent some electrical cables (which I might have to leave off if it becomes too difficult to insert in LDraw for the instruction manuals).  I've also had to drop one of the camera platforms to allow the arms to fully swing back.

 

I leave you with a final top-down view of all the current swing-arms, including the unfinished ones for the S-IVb forward and SM:

 

[Shiva]

Not bad :)

[NathanR]

Another small update, I've taken a break from the service arms to add in the "Damper arm".  This was a small arm that was attached to the escape tower, and I believe was responsible for stopping the rocket shaking too much when the Crawler ferried it out to the launch site:

Once at the site, cables would hoist the arm to a vertical position:

Adding this play feature in was quite a challenge, I've had to use another p[air of universal joints to slide the swing arm axle back one stud, so it doesn't collide with the damper arm in vertical position.  A few problems still remain, the connection point to the tower is one stud out from the tower wall. This is easily disguised on the side with the service arm axle, but on the far side I have a 1x2 technic brick "floating" in place, with basically no support. Any ideas how to make this a "natural" part of the tower?

Also, the hinge is accomplished using ball joints but I couldn't use the mixel 1x2 plate with towball 22890.  I'm relying on 22484 bar with lowball, stuffed into a technic half pin, to form the joint.  I don't actually own any of 22484... could some kind soul comment on whether the connection between 22484 and 14418 plate 1x2 with lowball socket has a good amount friction, would it be likely to take the weight of the damper arm?

 

I'm really starting to run out of steam on this project, it's getting increasingly difficult to find suitable reference images for the remaining arms.  Service arms 7 and 8 (for S-IVb and the Apollo SM) don't seem to have been photographed at all (and photos of the full tower just go blurry or grainy).  And I haven't a clue how to put a "white room" built out of system bricks/SNOT techniques on the end of the technic swing arm...Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated...

 

[Shiva]

54 minutes ago, NathanR said:

22484 and 14418

I, do not know. It is a quite strong friction connection. Maybe adding a cable and a small drum? "even More details to the build! Whoa"

How does the area where you want the "white room" look like?

[NathanR]

23 hours ago, Shiva said:

I, do not know. It is a quite strong friction connection. Maybe adding a cable and a small drum? "even More details to the build! Whoa"

Thanks, if the connection is strong then it should be alright.  A cable is a nice idea, unfortunately it's something I'll have to add later in real life.  LDD only has one flexible string element, which is too short. An actual winch might be beyond me... Much as I enjoy building technic sets, I've never been able to take a box of pieces and build my own mechanism.

23 hours ago, Shiva said:

How does the area where you want the "white room" look like?

The service arm is just a bunch of technic half beams, with the top and bottom rows joined by 3L half beams.  The angled black axle on the right represents the "bracer support", a cable that stopped the real arm sagging under it's own weight.  I suspect it will be needed here...

For the "white room" itself, I don't have a design yet, this is my current "best guess".  The yellow pin-hole + axle part above and below a technic brick means the white room has only one point of connection, very fragile.  It's also very hard to build anything around that yellow part to try to hide it or model the shape of the white room.  It would be better to have a sandwich of technic brick, pinhole+axle, technic brick, but I don't see how to move that yellow part down one hole.

This is a very tight space to build in.  If I build up just one plate then it collides with the damper arm, if I swing the arm round a few more degrees then the bracer support collides with the damper arm, and if I build down too far the arm won't swing back because it will hit the staircase.And I haven't even thought what will happen when I add the service arm for the Apollo SM.

 

[NathanR]

The white room is done! The hinge connection proved to be quite simple, using just a pair of 1x4 hinge plates.  Unfortunately I need them to be half red, half white to look right... this combination has never been issued, at least it's not listed on bricklink, so the hinges will need breaking apart.  I think this is doable...)

The bracer support has been moved further forward, keeping it as a 3-4-5 triangle and lowering the connection point on the tower slightly.  The boarding ramp has also been put in, though a little low to avoid a collision when the arm is retracted:

Next up are the last two service arms: S-IVb forward, and the SM service arm. I still don't have any good reference images - blueprints, photos of card models, photos of the real thing, they all look different.  They're surprisingly complex shapes, which isn't terribly clear on the blueprints.  Also, it seems parts of each arm could retract, pulling back from the rocket before the arm rotated away. It's not a feature I'm trying to model, but it adds to the confusion... 

[Shiva]

Thumbs up to you :)

[NathanR]

Well this has been an insanely productive weekend... though I have spent almost all of the last two days working on this.  I'm amazed my laptop is still working, as the model has now passed 6700 pieces.

The first round of updates involved finishing off the launch platform.  The three tail-service masts, which retracted behind heat-proof shields just after the 5 F-1 engines reached full throttle, are based on the designs from WhatsUpToday's LUT model.  However, I've adapted them to use modern hinge plates and slightly longer 3mm hoses (which appeared in several 2017 sets, so should be easy to get hold of).  I've also updated the triangular "blast shield" located in front of the lift shafts, designed to deflect the rocket exhaust away from the concrete support of the tower.

 

I've also worked my way up every floor of the tower adding in the control boxes.  I've used a set of build photos of a papercraft model of the LUT as a reference point, which means the boxes are a bit light in detail but I think I have them the right size and in roughly the right places. I'd be curious to know if anyone has any additional information on the boxes and what they were used for.

Lastly, I've finished off the roof of the tower, ready for the crane (which I will be designing in a separate LDD file).

I really have no idea how to connect the axles with the service arms to some knobs on the back. In fact, there doesn't seem any space left to fit control knobs on, as the triangular struts get in the way.  Any ideas, or any kind technic expert willing to take a look at this?

I've uploaded the LDD file for the top of the tower here: https://www.bricksafe.com/files/NathanR/real-space/apollo-lut/TowerTop.lxf

I'm out of my depth with this, anything involving me and cogs usually end in disaster... 

Edited May 6, 2018 by NathanR

[Shiva]

Yikes.

Maybe the Technic forum could give some help?