CMP

We don't have disposable income like other Rogue classes, so the opportunity for consumables is surprisingly low. And Encouraged wouldn't affect hex at all. Hex is like a more potent Stun, I agree there, but seeing as how it's a 50/50 chance and there's a lack of gold, it's not any more powerful than, say, Magnetic Mojo. And there's the Talisman we have to buy to make Poisoned Hits worth anything, too. I think it's reasonable, but of course I would say that.

That sounds good.

That's why I brought up the idea of a 50/50 chance. A longer lasting Hex was my first suggestion.

I meant that you can fight with full effectiveness from the back row, as Assassins are part Ranger. I know Witches are quite versatile, but they're not particularly powerful. Like I said, they're a decent class, they can do an array of things, but they do not make up for the fact that what should be their best roll is less effective than even a Miss (Poison), and indeed, Hex as it is is about on par with Confuse, Sorcerer's Miss roll. That's not versatile, that's just plain underpowered. Once again, a 50/50 chance to Hex each opponent I find reasonable and desirable to roll, even with no gold involved. Gaining gold every time Hex is rolled is great and all, but it's not solving the problem I pointed out earlier. I'd rather it be more useful than adding in any sort of gold stealing ability.

Witch isn't an underpowered class, its Shield is. We've got the ability to heal, but Assassins can fight from the back row. We can Badly Poison, but Assassins can OHKO. We can Hex one enemy, but Assassins get to cut a bloody swath through their opponents and gain obscene amounts of gold at the same time...that is my issue.

That's exactly why I'm explaining to you why I think it needs the buff, to show I don't just want a more powerful class. Bad example, though. Paladin's one of the best ACs....

I'm just explaining to you why I think the Shield should be buffed, I'm not trying to bash the class itself.

Yes, but, Badly Poisoning takes a 400 gold artifact and the accessory slot to use, and I'd take the chance to assassinate over it any day. 10 damage per round isn't that great, even if every enemy is Badly Poisoned.

I see your point. My problem is, look at Assassin and Warden. One has a 1/6 of instantly killing their opponent every hit, and the other is incredibly hard to damage. Their Shields aren't absolutely fantastic because of those. Poisoning and Special Mirror don't make up for the fact that the Witch's Shield is the most underpowered of all the advanced classes. There is no one awesome gimmick that makes a less powerful shield worthwhile is all.

They almost all do.... My point is that the Witch's Shield is, besides being a bit underpowered, is suited to smaller, stronger battles, and those are extremely scarce nowadays because to some QMs, difficulty has become synonymous with Free Hits...

Round Two of Misty Pond Pummeling Benji sits with a slightly less vacant look Xander uses Precision Bow on Dryad, back row - Special Damage: Poison Ivy (Xander is poisoned and bound in the back row) Docken uses Darksteel Crossbow on Unicorn A, front row - Aim (10 = 10 damage, Unicorn A blinded) Thormanil uses Frozen Sabre on Unicorn B, back row - Extra Critical Hit (((9 x 3) + 24 + 1)/2 = 26 damage, Unicorn B stunned) Althior uses Ice on Dryad, back row - Spell (38 x 2 = 76 damage, -1 ether) Black Adder A uses Free Hit on Benji - (12/2 - 7 = 0 damage) Benji counterstrikes Black Adder A - (23/2 = 12 damage) Black Adder B uses Free Hit on Xander - (12/2 - 5 = 1 damage) Creepers use Free Hit on Docken - (0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 damage) Docken counterstrikes Creepers - (26 damage to each) Xander takes poison damage (1 damage) The angry Dryad causes venomous plants to coil around Xander's legs, binding him in place, but it's quickly beaten back before it can do worse by an ice spell from Althior. Docken fires a bolt through the eye of one Unicorn, and Thormanil bashes the second before it can even recover. Enemies Unicorn A *Blinded, 3 rounds* <"AHH!! Where is the light?!"> Type: Beast/Holy Level: 28 Health: 353/363 Special I: Healing Horn – Restores 100 health to self. Used only at reduced health. Special II: Stampede – Causes 16 damage to all opponents. Used only at full health. Drops: 4 Remedies Unicorn B *Stunned, 1 round* Type: Beast/Holy Level: 28 Health: 311/363 Special I: Healing Horn – Restores 100 health to self. Used only at reduced health. Special II: Stampede – Causes 16 damage to all opponents. Used only at full health. Drops: 4 Remedies Dryad *Blinded, 2 rounds* "Hah! Foolish woodsman!" Type: Humanoid/Plant Level: 16 Health: 95/242 Special: Poison Ivy – Causes the bound- and poisoned-effects to the target. Drops: Remedy, Venom Black Adder A Type: Vermin Level: 12 Health: 103/127 Special: Deadly Poisonous Bite – Causes the badly poisoned-effect to the target Drops: Deadly Venom Black Adder B Type: Vermin Level: 12 Health: 127/127 Special: Deadly Poisonous Bite – Causes the badly poisoned-effect to the target Drops: Deadly Venom Creeper A Various cackling and scratchy sounding shrieks. Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper B Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper C Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper D Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper E Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper F Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper G Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 27/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper H Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Party Althior Emorith (And Finnegan) 33 years old male human Level: 23.66 Sage Power: 33 (38 for spells) Defense: 4 Health: 34/34 Ether: 27/29 Gold: 100 GP: 38 Equipment: Twin Sai Blades (WP:10, Dual Strike), Spellbound Gloves (+5 power when casting Spells, doubled if target is weak to Element), Robe of the Elven Necromancer (SP 4), Inventory: Dragoro (WP 8), Skeleton Decoy, Potion x2, Tonic x7, Grand Tonic, Nostrum, Mulled Wine, Ether Core, Venom x3, Shovel, Bedroll, Remedy x4, Lightning Bomb x3, Smelling Salts Amulet of Elven Horse Rider (Accessory), Diamond (Light), Topaz (Lightning), Amethyst (Darkness), Ruby (Fire), Sapphire (Wind), Garnet (Earth), Opal (Ice), Aquamarine (Water), Emerald (Wood), Grand Potion Bartholomew Docken (Brickdoctor) 32-year old human male, Warden Level 26.66 *Scary* *Immune to Defense Reduction and Fragile* *Second Party Leader* Power: 36 Defense: 25 Health: 55/55 Gold: 16 GP: 36 Equipment: Darksteel Crossbow (WP: 10; Blinded-effect), Mythril Shield (SP: 20), Dread Hat (permanent Scary effect; Immune to Defense Reduction; headwear), Heavy Armor (SP: 5; immune to Fragile; bodywear), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit, he counters with strength equal to his Level; handwear) Inventory: White Marksman's Hat (⅙ chance of Assassination vs. Flying monsters; headwear, lent to Thormanil Nihai), Lover's Locket (immune to Enamored; accessory), Potions (3), Grand Potions (2), Health Core, Remedy (2), Deadly Venom, Venom, Smoke Bomb, Grating Stone, Bedroll, Fire Bomb, Cobweb Cowl (immune to Instant-KO; backwear), Silver Ore Benji Carvenhall (Flare) 28 years old male half-elven Warden Level 23.66 *Counterstriking* *Deals Poisoned* *Double damage to Vermin* *Party Leader* Power: 36 Defense: 7 Health: 37/37 Gold: 1 GP: 20 Equipment: Crossbow of the Pongcanis (WP:13; darkness-, ice-, fire-, wind-elemental), Fauxthril Shield (SP:7), Ratmancer's Cowl (The wearer's physical attacks deal double damage against vermin; headgear), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit they counter with strength equal to their level; handwear), Quiver of Poisoning (permanent Poisoned effect; backwear) Inventory: Grogmas Handcannon (WP:12 + the number of the round of battle) Golden Handcannon (WP:9; lightning-, light-elemental), 7 Grand Potions, Health Core x2, Remedy, x2 Phoenix Essence, 4 Meads, 2 Nostrums, 2 Venoms, 2 Smoke Bombs, Pickaxe, Bedroll, Shovel, 3 Bones, Emerald (Wood), Garnet (Earth), Skeleton Decoy, Lightning Bomb, Smelling Salts Thormanil Nihai (Played by swils) Level 24 Raider *Natural Respite* *Immune to Darkness* Power: 34 Defense: 3 Health: 37/38 Gold: 711 GP: 17 Equipment: Frozen Saber (WP: 9; Stuns enemies), Bright Armor (SP: 3, Null Darkness) Inventory: Wyvern's Tailblade (WP: 12, suitable for Barbarians & Knights), Thundering Totem (WP:9, lightning), Tongue on a Stick (WP:1, Miss -> "Aim"), 2x Smelling Salts, Deadly Venom, Phoenix Essence, 3x Remedy, Pickaxe, Shovel, Trickster's Mask of the Gender Swap (Accessory), Trickster's Mask of the Weredog (Accessory), Trickster's Mask of the Elf(Accessory), Fighter’s Boots(Footwear, +10 damage to melee attacks. Suitable for QMs only), 2pc&biscuit, Jinxy Juice (Q35), Amethyst, Grating Stone, Fire Bomb, Milk, Potion, Venom, Lightning Bomb Xander Unth'or (posades) 24 year-old male human Hunter Level 22.33*Natural Respite* *Immune to Blindness and Fragile* *Favours Vermin and Aquatic Monsters* *Bound* *Poisoned* Power: 36 Defense: 5 Health: 34/35 Gold: 2 GP: 37 Equipment: Precision Bow (WP:12; all 'Aim's become 'Hit's), Hunter's Quiver of Marksmanship (WP:2 to a bow, allows the hunter to favor two types at the same time; protects from blindness-effect), Heavy Armor (SP:5, protects from fragile-effect), White Marksman's Hat (1/6 chance to assassinate flying monsters, headwear, borrowed from Barty Docken) Inventory: Pongcanis Club (WP:8), Enigmatic Hammer (WP:3), Amulet of the Elven Horse Rider (WP +1 from the front row, grants speed within quests; accessory), Aquamarine (Water), 3 Potions, Grand Potion, 3 Remedies, Nostrum, 2 Smelling Salts, Venom, Deadly Venom, Fire Bomb, Skeleton Decoy, Phoenix Essence, Silver Ore Heroes, please choose an action for this round. All untargetted opponents will get a Free Hit at the end of the round. Party leader, post the battle order for this round.

I think the Stun clarification is reasonable. Like said, it helps to balance out Guardian Angel. My main problem with the Witch's Shield, again, is that it's pretty much useless against larger groups in its current state, and large groups comprise the a good majority of battles these days. I'd be fine without the gold if it was at least area of effect. Perhaps a 50/50 chance to Hex each enemy, and the Witch steals gold equal to the levels of each enemy Hexed? I figure having a chance to fail is reasonable enough. If it's still too overpowered, maybe just drop the gold? Oh, that's option 4. Perhaps 1/3 chance? I don't see where the gold thing came up, that's not my problem with the Shield. Gold would be nice, but as long as the roll actually does something worthwhile I'm content. I think Sandy's rolled for Lucky on Scrolls in the past...might need to check. And yes, I was under the impression that Jinxed lasted three rounds when I created the Scarf....

That is just fantastic piece use. Absolutely jaw-dropping, as usual. :thumbup:

As awesome as that sounds....it kind of puts Magnetic Mojo to shame. How about a 50/50 chance to Hex each opponent in addition to the gold thing?

Round One of Misty Pond Pummeling Benji sits with a vacant look Xander uses Precision Bow on Dryad, back row - Hit (35 = 35 damage) Docken uses Darksteel Crossbow on Dryad, front row - Hit (36 = 36 damage, Dryad blinded) Thormanil uses Frozen Sabre on Unicorn B, back row - Extra Critical Hit (((9 x 3) + 24 + 1)/2 = 26 damage, Unicorn B stunned) Althior heals Unicorn A, back row - Heal More (33 = 33 health restored, -1 ether) Black Adder A uses Free Hit on Benji - (12/2 - 7 = 0 damage) Benji counterstrikes Black Adder A - (23/2 = 12 damage) Black Adder B uses Free Hit on Xander - (12/2 - 5 = 1 damage) Creepers use Free Hit on Docken - (0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 damage) Docken counterstrikes Creepers - (26 damage to each) Benji contemplates life as one of the deadly black snakes bites the edge of his shield. The other nibbles on Thormanil's toe, but he hardly notices, slamming the Frozen Sabre into the second Unicorn's head, giving it a literal brain freeze. Docken and Xander each unload a bolt at the now blind Dryad, while Althior bathes the first unicorn in an aura of healing energy. Enemies Unicorn A <"Ahh....that feels nice.>" Type: Beast/Holy Level: 28 Health: 363/363 Special I: Healing Horn – Restores 100 health to self. Used only at reduced health. Special II: Stampede – Causes 16 damage to all opponents. Used only at full health. Drops: 4 Remedies Unicorn B *Stunned, 1 round* Type: Beast/Holy Level: 28 Health: 337/363 Special I: Healing Horn – Restores 100 health to self. Used only at reduced health. Special II: Stampede – Causes 16 damage to all opponents. Used only at full health. Drops: 4 Remedies Dryad *Blinded, 3 rounds* Hiss. "Sylvania consume you!" Type: Humanoid/Plant Level: 16 Health: 171/242 Special: Poison Ivy – Causes the bound- and poisoned-effects to the target. Drops: Remedy, Venom Black Adder A Type: Vermin Level: 12 Health: 115/127 Special: Deadly Poisonous Bite – Causes the badly poisoned-effect to the target Drops: Deadly Venom Black Adder B Type: Vermin Level: 12 Health: 127/127 Special: Deadly Poisonous Bite – Causes the badly poisoned-effect to the target Drops: Deadly Venom Creeper A Various cackling and scratchy sounding shrieks. Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper B Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper C Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper D Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper E Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper F Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper G Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Creeper H Type: Beast/Vermin Level: 10 Health: 53/79 Special: Creep Out – Causes the afraid- and weakened-effects to the target. Drops: Grand Potion Note: All untargeted Creepers gather to cause a Free Hit on the same target. Party Althior Emorith (And Finnegan) 33 years old male human Level: 23.66 Sage Power: 33 (38 for spells) Defense: 4 Health: 34/34 Ether: 28/29 Gold: 100 GP: 38 Equipment: Twin Sai Blades (WP:10, Dual Strike), Spellbound Gloves (+5 power when casting Spells, doubled if target is weak to Element), Robe of the Elven Necromancer (SP 4), Inventory: Dragoro (WP 8), Skeleton Decoy, Potion x2, Tonic x7, Grand Tonic, Nostrum, Mulled Wine, Ether Core, Venom x3, Shovel, Bedroll, Remedy x4, Lightning Bomb x3, Smelling Salts Amulet of Elven Horse Rider (Accessory), Diamond (Light), Topaz (Lightning), Amethyst (Darkness), Ruby (Fire), Sapphire (Wind), Garnet (Earth), Opal (Ice), Aquamarine (Water), Emerald (Wood), Grand Potion Bartholomew Docken (Brickdoctor) 32-year old human male, Warden Level 26.66 *Scary* *Immune to Defense Reduction and Fragile* *Second Party Leader* Power: 36 Defense: 25 Health: 55/55 Gold: 16 GP: 36 Equipment: Darksteel Crossbow (WP: 10; Blinded-effect), Mythril Shield (SP: 20), Dread Hat (permanent Scary effect; Immune to Defense Reduction; headwear), Heavy Armor (SP: 5; immune to Fragile; bodywear), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit, he counters with strength equal to his Level; handwear) Inventory: White Marksman's Hat (⅙ chance of Assassination vs. Flying monsters; headwear, lent to Thormanil Nihai), Lover's Locket (immune to Enamored; accessory), Potions (3), Grand Potions (2), Health Core, Remedy (2), Deadly Venom, Venom, Smoke Bomb, Grating Stone, Bedroll, Fire Bomb, Cobweb Cowl (immune to Instant-KO; backwear), Silver Ore Benji Carvenhall (Flare) 28 years old male half-elven Warden Level 23.66 *Counterstriking* *Deals Poisoned* *Double damage to Vermin* *Party Leader* Power: 36 Defense: 7 Health: 37/37 Gold: 1 GP: 20 Equipment: Crossbow of the Pongcanis (WP:13; darkness-, ice-, fire-, wind-elemental), Fauxthril Shield (SP:7), Ratmancer's Cowl (The wearer's physical attacks deal double damage against vermin; headgear), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit they counter with strength equal to their level; handwear), Quiver of Poisoning (permanent Poisoned effect; backwear) Inventory: Grogmas Handcannon (WP:12 + the number of the round of battle) Golden Handcannon (WP:9; lightning-, light-elemental), 7 Grand Potions, Health Core x2, Remedy, x2 Phoenix Essence, 4 Meads, 2 Nostrums, 2 Venoms, 2 Smoke Bombs, Pickaxe, Bedroll, Shovel, 3 Bones, Emerald (Wood), Garnet (Earth), Skeleton Decoy, Lightning Bomb, Smelling Salts Thormanil Nihai (Played by swils) Level 24 Raider *Natural Respite* *Immune to Darkness* Power: 34 Defense: 3 Health: 37/38 Gold: 711 GP: 17 Equipment: Frozen Saber (WP: 9; Stuns enemies), Bright Armor (SP: 3, Null Darkness) Inventory: Wyvern's Tailblade (WP: 12, suitable for Barbarians & Knights), Thundering Totem (WP:9, lightning), Tongue on a Stick (WP:1, Miss -> "Aim"), 2x Smelling Salts, Deadly Venom, Phoenix Essence, 3x Remedy, Pickaxe, Shovel, Trickster's Mask of the Gender Swap (Accessory), Trickster's Mask of the Weredog (Accessory), Trickster's Mask of the Elf(Accessory), Fighter’s Boots(Footwear, +10 damage to melee attacks. Suitable for QMs only), 2pc&biscuit, Jinxy Juice (Q35), Amethyst, Grating Stone, Fire Bomb, Milk, Potion, Venom, Lightning Bomb Xander Unth'or (posades) 24 year-old male human Hunter Level 22.33*Natural Respite* *Immune to Blindness and Fragile* *Favours Vermin and Aquatic Monsters* Power: 36 Defense: 5 Health: 35/35 Gold: 2 GP: 37 Equipment: Precision Bow (WP:12; all 'Aim's become 'Hit's), Hunter's Quiver of Marksmanship (WP:2 to a bow, allows the hunter to favor two types at the same time; protects from blindness-effect), Heavy Armor (SP:5, protects from fragile-effect), White Marksman's Hat (1/6 chance to assassinate flying monsters, headwear, borrowed from Barty Docken) Inventory: Pongcanis Club (WP:8), Enigmatic Hammer (WP:3), Amulet of the Elven Horse Rider (WP +1 from the front row, grants speed within quests; accessory), Aquamarine (Water), 3 Potions, Grand Potion, 3 Remedies, Nostrum, 2 Smelling Salts, Venom, Deadly Venom, Fire Bomb, Skeleton Decoy, Phoenix Essence, Silver Ore Heroes, please choose an action for this round. All untargetted opponents will get a Free Hit at the end of the round. Party leader, post the battle order for this round.

Devious!

You test roll your battles? Dang. I just eyeball it...

Who knew a species of mutant fungus could look so dapper?

Those things The Inquisitors are all female?

Shoot, Eric would've had a blast in Quest 51.

If we pile on one enemy, the remainder just slaughter us with Free Hits. The best use I've gotten out of it is simply having a Free Hit redirected to an enemy. I agree that Special Mirror is great, but it's not like I get to avoid to the Special Damage itself. And seeing that how nearly every fight nowadays involves big groups of enemies...we pretty much always have to take preventing any Free Hits where we can get it. (This isn't a jab at Quest 53, it's really one of the only ways to truly challenge veteran heroes anymore.) The worst bit is, in the unlikely event we are facing a single opponent, the chances of that enemy being immune to all effects has skyrocketed recently. The one time Hex would be an amazingly good roll....the enemy's probably immune to it. In my opinion, I think either the effect should be extended to three rounds or so, or, the effect itself is dropped from the Shield, the the Witch can choose a target for the hexed opponent for the one round, one that's actually rolled for. (For example, Shield would be the Special Skill, Critical Hits would be dealing damage twice its level, Miss would be Miss, etc...) Though as the only Witch it might be biased.

Look, now I've got a level 10 meat shield worthy ally. You have no chance. It's a nice effect. It's just getting a bit ineffective. It's like a concentrated Sentinel. With the current battles going the way they are, it's becoming nothing more than preventing one Free Hit, which pales even in comparison to Sentinel.

Bah, I've wrestled one to death with my bare hands before.

All both of them?

Good enough for me. Vote: Alopex.