Waterbrick Down

Just double checking but duel strike does not count as targeting two enemies correct?

Flipz's post on the subject.

OoC: I think we've encountered this before, poisons don't stack, so the normal poison is superseded by the deadly poison. "No body target that first crab. Alexis, keep at the bird." Skrall reloaded and fired upon Angry Crab C from the back row with his Hunter's Crossbow. Battle Order: Alexis Namyrra Skrall Nur Stigveladi Nur

It is entirely situational, that's all. One could potentially create a battle in which all shields are rendered useless if they wanted to, it wouldn't mean that the classes are underpowered, it means that the classes aren't strong against a certain enemy. Everyone should be good at something, no one should be good at everything.

Seems quite convenient. Not to say, I haven't done it before.

Everytime a Shaman, Druid, Cleric roll a Shield on a party with full health it's pretty much useless. Assassins just are not the best boss battlers.

Whatever happened to character knowledge versus player knowledge.

Round 5 of the Penthouse Showdown: >Xander vs. Cavern Dragonling - Marking the Favored (Cavern Dragonling: 50 HP-(48x3=144 Damage)=0 Health) Cronk vs. Himself - No Healing Nerwen vs. Marsh Dragonling - Blood Ritual Special Damage (Marsh Dragonling: 39 HP-(20 Damage)=19 Health, Party restored to full health) Nerwen vs. Marsh Dragonling - Extra Critical Hit Damage (Marsh Dragonling: 19 HP-(2x15=30+20=50 Damage)=0 Health) >Dyric vs. Cavern Dragonling - Lethal Hit Special Damage (While I'd prefer a specification that Dyric will not attack if the dragonlings are slain, I'll go ahead and assume that is the case.) Xander strikes the Cavern Dragonling out of the sky with a well placed arrow as Nerwen again calls forth upon the blood magic to restore the vigor of her party. Satisfied that all is well, the elven shaman squares her shoulders and hits a line drive with the Marsh Dragonling sending it crashing into one of the walls. With all the dragonlings dispatched all that remains is the unconscious Ecastue in the middle of the room. THE BATTLE IS WON! Party: Dyric Rone *Party Leader* Male Human Assassin Level 21.5 *Immune to Wood, Water, Earth, Ice, Fire, Wind, Lightning, Light, Darkness* Health: 33/33 Power Bonus: +1 SP: 3 Gold: 657 Equipment: Requiem (WP: 20; wood, light and darkness-elemental, ranged), Lucky Die, Tricorne (SP:3, Water, Wood, Earth, Ice, Fire, Wind, Lightning, Light, Darkness - elemental) Sticky Gloves (Increases amount of gold stolen by 50%; handwear) Inventory: Double Chain Whip (WP:10), Throwing Knife (WP:4, ranged, retrievable), Longsword (WP: 3), Aquamarine (Water), Diamond, 4 Potions, 4 Grand Potions, Elixir, 2 Remedies, Mead, 2 Venoms, Smoke Bomb, Skeleton Decoy, 3 Mythril Shards (3/4 of a Mythril), Silver Ore (Worth 60 gold), Bone, Grand Potion, Winged Sandals, Pheonix Essence, Smelling Salt Bedroll, Shovel, Banana (Restores full health to target), Cynthia's Contract (Quest Item), Diamond Lamp of Summoning, Tonic Cronk Male Orc Paladin Level 31 *Counterstriking* *Blessed* *Immune to Blind* Health: 49/49 Power Bonus: +2 SP: 16 Ether: 32/32 Gold: 22 Equipment: Twin Broadswords (WP:21, dual-strike, user is unable to use a shield), Paladin's Armour (Suitable for Paladins, +5 SP, +2 Max Ether), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit, they counter with strength equal to their level), Elaborate Helmet (SP: 2), Ennoc's Gratitude (Artifact, Accessory, User Perma-Blessed and immune to Blind, Requires Light Weapon) Inventory: Zoot's Bane (Suitable only for Cronk; WP: 12, Light), Ennoc's Blessing (Shield, SP: 9), Beast Skewer (Lance; WP: 12), Flute of the Magi (WP:3, asleep-effect), Bedroll, Shovel, Holy Bomb, 2 Remedies, Bennetton's Seal, Topaz, Health Core, 2 Lightning Bombs, Bloody Pointy Stick (WP: 1), Health Core, Phoenix Essence, 2 Ether Cores, Scroll of Sealing, Big Apple (Permenant increase of Power Bonus by 1), Potion, Ratabor's Rent Money (Quest Item), Fluffy Pillow (Accessory, user regains full health the first round they are either Asleep or Fast Asleep) Nerwen Calmcacil 262 year old female Elven Shaman Level 20.5 *Immune to Sealed* Health: 37/37 Power Bonus: 0 SP: 3 Ether: 29/30 Gold: 61 Equipment: Magical Staff (WP: 15, Water, Darkness, staff), Robe of the Archmage(SP:3, Max.Ether+5, protects from Sealed, bodywear), White Cloak(+3 Max health; backwear) Inventory: Mourning Star (WP:10, Fire,inflicts fragile-effect; mace), Crocodile Handbag (Max. ether +2, immunity to water; accessory), Shackles of War (prevents anyone fleeing; accessory), Sapphire, Emerald, Scroll of Sleep, Scroll of Sealing, Scroll of Blindness, Scroll of Weakening, 3 Grand Tonics, 2 Potions, 3 Elixirs, 1 Remedy, 3 Phoenix Essence, Phoenix Incense, Essence of Sorrow (50% assassination chance on non-immune target), Venom, 2 Fire Bombs, 2 Ice Bombs, 2 Lightning Bombs, 2 Water Bombs, 2 Dirt Bombs, 2 Air Bombs, Bone, Shovel, Bedroll, Milk (Restores 15 Health and Ether upon consumption), Carrot (Restores 5 Health, 10 to rabbits), Magnifying Glass, Diamond, Letter of Room 205 Rent Payment (Quest Item), Bright Polish, Bent Crowbar (WP: 8, does 3x damage to Mechanic enemies, hammer), Raw Meat (permanently raises maximum health by 5), Tonic, Double Rainbow Xander Unth'or 24 year-old male Human Hunter Level 30 *Natural Respite* *Immune to Blindness and Fragile* *Favors Beasts and Flying Monsters* *Earns Triple Experience* Health: 43/43 Power Bonus: 0 SP: 5 Gold: 21 Equipment: Precision Bow (WP:19; all 'Aim's become 'Hit's), Hunter's Quiver of Marksmanship (WP:2 to a bow, allows the hunter to favor two types at the same time; protects from blindness-effect), Heavy Armor (SP:5, protects from fragile-effect), Medal of Glory (Wearer gains triple experience, accessory) Inventory: Pongcanis Club (WP:8), Enigmatic Hammer (WP:3), Electro Gear (Wearer deals and is immune to lightning elemental damage, accessory), Aquamarine (Water), Topaz (Lightning), Saphire (Wind), 3 Potions, 2 Grand Potions, 5 Remedies, 2 Nostrum, Smelling Salts, Venom, Deadly Venom, Skeleton Decoy, 2 Phoenix Essences, 2 Smoke Bombs, 3 Bones, 3 Dragon Scales, Mead, 1 Level-Up Mushroom, Chicken Drumstick (Permant HP increase by 1), Seventh Heaven Party Leader, how will the spoils be divided? 6 Dragon Scales - Grants the Lucky and Blessed effects upon use.

Skrall dodged out of the way as the mellow crab took a nasty turn. Drawing the Composite Bow from his back, he fired off a round at the Phoenix from the back row. "Alexis, take a swipe at that Phoenix from the front." Battle Order: Namyrra Alexis Hoke Nur Stigveladi Skrall

Nope, I think it makes sense that encouraged, weakened, and fragile should have an effect on Counterstriking. I agree with CM and Kintober, let's wait it out. Besides, there is no rule that says we can't un-nerf something.

However rogues have always been considered the solo-selfish class by the community, so I wouldn't mind them actually attacking the ones that are mug-able. An enemy is still being attacked which means that it is still beneficial to the party. Now if a rogue goes deliberately targeting a weaker enemy just because it is mug-able when in fact the weaker enemy was designed for a weaker party member, then yes I might have some objections, but I need to balance that out with how much danger the party is actually in. To expect rogues to only take advantage of their job specialty only when it is convenient for the rest of the party seems slightly selfish to me on the party's part. Remember also, that not everyone plays this game for the pleasant social interaction. Some people enjoy min-maxing which sometimes means that it will clash with other's more co-operative style. Balance is the key remember, we can't have everyone just focusing on RP and great party dynamics and we can't have everyone just out for themselves, we need both for this community to be what it is.

QM Note: As I can't find anything in the Rules about Fragile not effecting counterstrike, I'll go ahead and allow it. Ecastue is now unconscious (effectively stunned for the rest of the battle). Posades, you are correct about Xander's damage.

I see what you are getting at and I guess we as a community have always pigeonholed the rogues into being a selfish independent class. As Pyrovisionary noted, rogues don't really have a party role except playing as more of a solo class by just buffing themselves, or as a jack of all trades spreading the wealth type of class. If it's the former, then we need to limit their income because they upgrade too quickly to keep the game balanced, if it's the latter then of course there is no problem and we as a community just need to expect the rogues to be more generous with their Gold earnings. The issue I think might be psychological; subconsciously, not many people want either their class advantages to be impeded upon by another class, or to be dependent upon someone else's charity (a generous rogue) to gain an advantage. We all like being independently good at something without the help of another player, i.e. Clerics like being good at healing, Knights like being the ones to tank hits, Rangers like to be the ones dealing out a consistent amount of high damage, etc. Rogues just run counter to all of that.

Round 4 of the Penthouse Showdown: Cronk vs. Cavern Dragonling - Special Guard (All Sealed except for Cronk and Nerwen) >Xander vs. Plains Dragonling - Critical Hit (Plains Dragonling: 70 HP-(19+2=21x2=42+29=71x3=213 Damage)=0 Health) Nerwen - Remedy Nerwen vs. Herself - No Healing No Healing (-1 Ether) >Dyric vs. Marsh Dragonling - Critical Lethal Hit Critical Lethal Hit (Marsh Dragonling: 100 HP-(20x2=40+21=61 Damage)=39 Health, No Assassination) Ecastue Dragonling vs. Cronk - Free Hit (Cronk: 48+7 HP-(25 Damage)= 30 Health) Cronk vs. Ecastue - Counterstrike (Ecastue: 72 HP-(30x2=60 Damage)=12 Health) Cronk swings at the Cavern Dragonling, but misses. The golden dragonling glares at the party, Cronk and Nerwen avert their eyes however both Xander and Dyric are sealed. Xander brings down the Plains dragonling as Nerwen remedies herself and attempts to heal, however she fails to concentrate on her connection to the gods and fails to regain any health. Dyric fires off another arrow hitting the Marsh dragonling squarely in the chest. Ecastue lunges at Cronk, but the paladin brings the butt of his swords down upon the dragon, knocking him out cold. THE BATTLE CONTINUES! The Enemy: Ecastue *Unconscious (Permanently Stunned)* Type: Ancient Level: 30 Health: 12/250 Specials: Scream of Agony: Ecastue encourages one of the Dragonlings and makes one of the heroes fragile during the next round. Passive Specials: The Beast Within: Every round Ecastue’s level grows by 5 reaching maximum at level 45. Immune to Blinded, Sealing and Asleep Drops: ?? Note: If Ecastue's Health drops below 20 he will be knocked unconscious. If Ecastue's Health drops to 0 he will die. Cavern Dragonling Type: Flying Monster Level: 24 Health: 50/100 Specials: Challenging Gaze: All heroes have a 1/2 chance of being sealed. Passive Specials: Immune to Sealed and Sleep Drops: Dragon Scale Marsh Dragonling Type: Flying Monster Level: 30 Health: 39/100 Specials: Acid Spray: The target and the hero before them in the battle order take 25 Wood damage and are weakened. Passive Specials: Immune to Blinded and Weakening Drops: Dragon Scale Party: Dyric Rone *Party Leader* Male Human Assassin Level 21 *Immune to Wood, Water, Earth, Ice, Fire, Wind, Lightning, Light, Darkness* *Sealed* Health: 33/33 Power Bonus: +1 SP: 3 Gold: 657 Equipment: Requiem (WP: 20; wood, light and darkness-elemental, ranged), Lucky Die, Tricorne (SP:3, Water, Wood, Earth, Ice, Fire, Wind, Lightning, Light, Darkness - elemental) Sticky Gloves (Increases amount of gold stolen by 50%; handwear) Inventory: Double Chain Whip (WP:10), Throwing Knife (WP:4, ranged, retrievable), Longsword (WP: 3), Aquamarine (Water), Diamond, 4 Potions, 4 Grand Potions, Elixir, 2 Remedies, Mead, 2 Venoms, Smoke Bomb, Skeleton Decoy, 3 Mythril Shards (3/4 of a Mythril), Silver Ore (Worth 60 gold), Bone, Grand Potion, Winged Sandals, Pheonix Essence, Smelling Salt Bedroll, Shovel, Banana (Restores full health to target), Cynthia's Contract (Quest Item), Diamond Lamp of Summoning, Tonic Cronk Male Orc Paladin Level 30 3/4 *Counterstriking* *Blessed* *Immune to Blind* Health: 30/48 Power Bonus: +2 SP: 16 Ether: 31/31 Gold: 22 Equipment: Twin Broadswords (WP:21, dual-strike, user is unable to use a shield), Paladin's Armour (Suitable for Paladins, +5 SP, +2 Max Ether), Counterstrike Gloves (After the wearer is struck by a Free Hit, they counter with strength equal to their level), Elaborate Helmet (SP: 2), Ennoc's Gratitude (Artifact, Accessory, User Perma-Blessed and immune to Blind, Requires Light Weapon) Inventory: Zoot's Bane (Suitable only for Cronk; WP: 12, Light), Ennoc's Blessing (Shield, SP: 9), Beast Skewer (Lance; WP: 12), Flute of the Magi (WP:3, asleep-effect), Bedroll, Shovel, Holy Bomb, 2 Remedies, Bennetton's Seal, Topaz, Health Core, 2 Lightning Bombs, Bloody Pointy Stick (WP: 1), Health Core, Phoenix Essence, 2 Ether Cores, Scroll of Sealing, Big Apple (Permenant increase of Power Bonus by 1), Potion, Ratabor's Rent Money (Quest Item), Fluffy Pillow (Accessory, user regains full health the first round they are either Asleep or Fast Asleep) Nerwen Calmcacil 262 year old female Elven Shaman *Lucky* *Hastened* Level 20 *Immune to Sealed* Health: 35/37 Power Bonus: 0 SP: 3 Ether: 29/30 Gold: 61 Equipment: Magical Staff (WP: 15, Water, Darkness, staff), Robe of the Archmage(SP:3, Max.Ether+5, protects from Sealed, bodywear), White Cloak(+3 Max health; backwear) Inventory: Mourning Star (WP:10, Fire,inflicts fragile-effect; mace), Crocodile Handbag (Max. ether +2, immunity to water; accessory), Shackles of War (prevents anyone fleeing; accessory), Sapphire, Emerald, Scroll of Sleep, Scroll of Sealing, Scroll of Blindness, Scroll of Weakening, 3 Grand Tonics, 2 Potions, 3 Elixirs, 1 Remedy, 3 Phoenix Essence, Phoenix Incense, Essence of Sorrow (50% assassination chance on non-immune target), Venom, 2 Fire Bombs, 2 Ice Bombs, 2 Lightning Bombs, 2 Water Bombs, 2 Dirt Bombs, 2 Air Bombs, Bone, Shovel, Bedroll, Milk (Restores 15 Health and Ether upon consumption), Carrot (Restores 5 Health, 10 to rabbits), Magnifying Glass, Diamond, Letter of Room 205 Rent Payment (Quest Item), Bright Polish, Bent Crowbar (WP: 8, does 3x damage to Mechanic enemies, hammer), Raw Meat (permanently raises maximum health by 5), Tonic, Double Rainbow Xander Unth'or 24 year-old male Human Hunter Level 29 *Natural Respite* *Immune to Blindness and Fragile* *Favors Beasts and Flying Monsters* *Earns Triple Experience* *Sealed* Health: 42/42 Power Bonus: 0 SP: 5 Gold: 21 Equipment: Precision Bow (WP:19; all 'Aim's become 'Hit's), Hunter's Quiver of Marksmanship (WP:2 to a bow, allows the hunter to favor two types at the same time; protects from blindness-effect), Heavy Armor (SP:5, protects from fragile-effect), Medal of Glory (Wearer gains triple experience, accessory) Inventory: Pongcanis Club (WP:8), Enigmatic Hammer (WP:3), Electro Gear (Wearer deals and is immune to lightning elemental damage, accessory), Aquamarine (Water), Topaz (Lightning), Saphire (Wind), 3 Potions, 2 Grand Potions, 5 Remedies, 2 Nostrum, Smelling Salts, Venom, Deadly Venom, Skeleton Decoy, 2 Phoenix Essences, 2 Smoke Bombs, 3 Bones, 3 Dragon Scales, Mead, 1 Level-Up Mushroom, Chicken Drumstick (Permant HP increase by 1), Seventh Heaven Party Leader, please give a battle order. Everyone else, please state your target and the row from which you are attacking. Any enemy untargeted will give free hits.

If the issue had been a behavioral problem then that would have been addressed, however a flaw in the balance of the game was perceived and that is what we were trying to address. I don't think there was any if at all unspoken jealousy concerning how much gold a rogue was taking in, that is after all their trait, however I'm sure there was plenty of well founded jealousy in rogues taking the place of certain classes. Sure a rogues extra consumables, SP, and WP benefit the party, but it's not their job. For example, I've chosen my class for high damage output. When a rogue comes along with 2x my WP imbued with tons of elements, it somewhat cheapens my enjoyment of being the Party's heavy hitter. Like wise, if someone is playing a cleric because that is what they enjoy and a rogue with tons of consumables joins the party and essentially takes the healer's place, then I can see the healer being rightfully upset. Again the point isn't rogue's behavior or anyone else's, it's game balance.

Skrall batted off the angry crab before skewering it with a final bolt. With one crab down, Skrall turned his attention to Mellow Crab B and fired off two shots. "Bring that star down Alexis." Battle Order: Hoke Namyrra Skrall Stigveladi Nur Hoke

"Alexis, if you want to keep at the star, I'll take care of the last Angry Crab." So saying, Skrall fired a bolt at the last red crab from the back row. Battle Order: Hoke Namyrra Skrall Stigveladi Nur Alexis

QM Note: Still waiting on Xander's action, I'll run the round in a little less than 6 hours from now.

Point taken, but had Karie met Sarge before going witch?

Considering that we only have 3 of them and that one is an ex-paladin, the other is a gentleman rogue, and the other a kind and considerate vampire, I find that humorously harsh.

"Alexis, try and take out that starfish from the front." Revised Battle Order: Hoke Namyrra Skrall Stigvelaid Nur Alexis

"Perhaps, ya should keep one of those Mellow Crabs busy, or maybe the star. Hoke, if it has a habit of raisin' the dead, then maybe we want to take care of it sooner rather than later."

"Alexis, ya want to handle the phoenix? I seem to remember you having some sort of affinity with their kind before." Skrall loaded 2 bolts and shot Rainbow Frogs B and C in quick succession from the back row. Battle Order: Alexis Hoke Namyrra Skrall Nur Stigveladi

I agree, I think one nerf is enough to limit the disparity. I'm fine with a rogue making 2-4x as much as I do in a quest, but when it's as much as 10x, it ends up creating a very large disparity in actual stats such as SP and WP and immunities between rogues and other classes, making them difficult to balance for as well as negating some of the advantages of other classes.

I would assume so, that's the point of Endgame's second proposal, letting QM's still have some influence on what is mug-able as opposed to making QM's include Humanoid enemies to make a quest fair for rogues.