Fallenangel

:laugh: Taking it just a little too far at this point... Did you list seven X-wings on purpose, or was it just coincidence?

Okay, sorry to bump an old review, but when I was going through my bricks to rebuild this set I noticed that there is a dark bley 2x4 plate and a pair of light bley 1x4 plates listed in the parts inventory which do not seem to be used ANYWHERE on the set. In fact, I don't even remember those pieces being included (though four years is a long time). Can anyone help me?

Nothing says he can't build another one. Do you think I keep all of my X-wings together? I'd go crazy.

"Now this is podracing!!!" Gaaahhh!!! But enough of that. Let's get back on topic. I doubt they'll change the lightsaber color; it is classic, after all.

That's because the actual models can't fit people. If you look inside the cockpits you'll see the pilots are just torsos. Like I said, they probably had to make the angle steeper for the full-scale mockup. Just fix the second point I mentioned and make the wings angle in a little more and this MOC will be looking great. *And I'm sorry I keep bringing this up, but please make another X-wing. I really see a lot of potential...

And here I am, upset that KimT started the blog after I posted my X-wing, which didn't make the front page... but that's apparently because I take terrible photos, so I kind of understand. I don't understand how the whole tag system works (drakmin got a Death Star with less than ten posts?!) but I've found it's generally better not to worry about it. It's nice when it happens, but that doesn't mean the people who get such treatment are 'bigshots'. I can think of two or three users off the top of my head who deserve "MOC Expert" but if the moderators don't think so well then that's that.

The angle does look a bit shallow compared to the studio model, but that may just be me. Or maybe it's just that the front seems a bit wide. In any case, there's no way drakmin's going to establish any kind of scale until he goes back and redoes the warped midsection and horribly stubby laser cannons on his X-wing. drakmin I'm wondering, do you intend to go back and cover up the holes in the wings for this MOC? It just doesn't seem very aesthetically pleasing.

This is looking very nice indeed... Since this model is obviously larger than minifigure scale SNOT is a very good choice for the wings. You've already captured two major details that few other have done accurately; the way the laser cannons are angled inward and the geometry of the laser cannon housings (how the inner edge is parallel to the rear deck). It even looks like this model will have an accurate bottom, which is great! A couple things I'd like to comment on: First, you're right about the models having different angles. But when I compare your MOC to this shot I can't help but feel that the wings are a bit too steep. If you could fix this but retain what you've done with the laser cannon housings lining up with the deck that would be great. The second thing is something I've come across while doing a bit of research. You can divide the T-47's wing profile into three parts: - the small sloped section in the rear that bears squadron markings - the flatter section with the laser cannon housings - the large sloped section that continues to the front It can be seen from this image that the latter two sections form a rough 1:2 proportion - that is, the sloped section is roughly twice as long as the flatter section. On yours it looks to be almost 1:5, which isn't good. It will screw up not only the length of the cockpit but also the nose. I've seen this fallacy in many other renditions (including LEGO's now craptastic System set) and it just doesn't look good. I strongly recommend you fix this one point before proceeding. Lastly, I think you may want to extend the rear just a bit. There should be some massive grilles there. I'm very excited about how this model will turn out, and I encourage you to continue with your fantastic Technic work as you may end up setting a new standard for all of us! Eh, it needs some work.

Yes, we're generally very friendly at Eurobricks - just remember that all Clone Wars vs. Original Trilogy comments belong in the appropriate thread by brickartist. Just so you know, those blueprints are for the full-scale model (the ones with Luke and Dack climbing into the cockpit), not the 21" miniatures (the ones that fly around the AT-ATs). The two differ greatly in shape, the most prominent difference being the angle at which the wings hang down. I'm looking forward to seeing your unique take on the T-47 (which I hope will be done larger than minifigure scale like your X-wing). Don't think I'll be so soft on your MOC next time, though - after seeing what you're capable of doing with Technic, I won't expect dimensional inaccuracies to be an issue.

Look around 12:30. Anakin still has short Padawan hair, so it's well before the montage. Yes, it's quite different from the one in the film, but Wookieepedia identifies it as the Eta-2. I'm not sure about the whole Nelvaan bit either... but then again, there are numerous discrepancies between Labyrinth of Evil and the cartoon series. And the Death Star novel was just one big retcon, so I would dismiss at least that.

Excuse me, but Wookieepedia states: All of the Clone Wars material I just referred to falls into C-Canon, not S-Canon. And only N-Canon describes "what could have been". Any by the way, I just wanted to point out that there is nothing unusual about Maul appearing to train Savage because the Dark Jedi Exar Kun appeared as a spirit to Luke Skywalker's disciples throughout the Jedi Academy Trilogy (which took place after the events of Dark Empire).

I've fixed my 8017 and 7657 the same way... it appears great minds think alike As for the wings, just rip out all the Technic in the interior and attach the wings via click hinges. They're definitely cleaner and more stable, and those gaps in the sides aren't going to get any bigger. Sure, it'll take a bit of work, but these sets are never perfect, and it sounds like you've added your personal touches to this set anyway.

I would have to disagree with you there. Putting aside all the Expanded Universe lit which you classify as "obscure" here are two major points that the '08 seriess effectively rewrote: - Anakin was knighted in the last year of the war. - Anakin is whiny, rash and highly unstable which disqualifies him for any sort of role as a Master to a Padawan. Some other things: - The Eta-2 Actis-class Interceptor that pretty much made the opening scene of Sith had already been in use at the time Anakin was knighted; this is seen in the fact that we see Anakin climb into an Eta-2 and take off immediately after he is knighted in Clone Wars Chapter 21. This also implies that the Delta-7B should never have existed at all. - The AT-RT was not introduced until Clone Wars Chapter 22 during the Outer Rim Sieges, which took place from 20 BBY on. - Likewise, the ARC-170 was not introduced until 20 BBY. (The first appearance of the ARC-170 was in the Obsession comics compiled in Clone Wars Volume 7 which took place in 20 BBY.) - The Venator is also not introduced until 20 BBY, as it makes its first appearance in MedStar II: Jedi Healer which takes place in 20 BBY. - Grievous didn't acquire his nasty coughing habit until Mace Windu crushed his chest plates in Chapter 25, which takes place during the Battle of Coruscant. - Asajj Ventress is Rattataki, not Dathomiri. - Togruta don't wear shoes. I can't help but feel that it is rude of you to dismiss large parts of the established Star Wars canon as obscure and not being a huge deal, as there may be fans here who base part of their love for the franchise on it. Expanded Universe lit may be old and even apocryphal, but to some fans it will never become obscure. Remember, brickartist asked that we be respectful as opposed to narrow-minded.

That doesn't even begin to cover it... but I'll spare drakmin a page of criticism since this is his first model in a while, and nonetheless an impressive one at that. Actually, the bad angling on the nose isn't really all that noticeable from the top view (although a lot of other things are, but as I said, I won't go into that just yet). Hello drakmin and welcome to Eurobricks! I'm sorry if my criticism of your model came across as a bit too nitpicky. Technic isn't exactly the easiest medium to work with, and you've done a wonderful job of creating a very angular build in the style of the X-wing. This is the first time I've seen a Technic X-wing, and one of only two I've seen built larger than minifigure scale, so you definitely get points for originality. 3000 parts is impressive indeed. (How big is it?) Do you have a video of the motorized wings opening and closing? As for what to build next, I would strongly suggest building a second X-wing, partially because I feel you could benefit from improving upon a design you are relatively familiar with to really get into the habit of building again, and partially because I think if this Technic were executed well this X-wing may become one of the best I've ever seen. And as an X-wing enthusiast (see avatar and Brickshelf folder) of course I would be willing to offer help in that field. How about a Virago? It's got a unique design that you can't really capture perfectly in bricks, and a Technic approach to that would be interesting. As for blueprints, I've found that they're usually quite inaccurate (as everyone has their own interpretation of what they perceive the studio model to look like) so I would suggest going with pictures of the studio models themselves, or at least really good replicas. There are a lot of really good hi-res pictures of the T-47 on modelermagic (so far the best source I've found for Star Wars models, although for the Falcon I've found none better than studioscale). The T-47 has an angular look that would suit Technic so I would encourage you to go ahead with that as well, although I would advise you in the future to fill in the holes in your models with plates and tiles. (This would also allow for the inclusion of some finer details, or "greeblies" as I've heard many people call them.)

There we go. I think that this was part of what I've been wanting to say all along... And Anakin building Threepio was a retcon too.

I swear, it's pretty significant. And besides, what I'm doing is just the tip of the iceberg. Other people know a lot more about these things than I do. Although to be completely honest I suspected the elongated cockpit from the start but didn't want to ruin the moment for everybody. Brickdoctor, do you have any ideas on what reference they may have used? I think that the schematics featured in the Essential Guide may have played a part. (It's evident from the details in the schematics that they're based off the 32" model from Empire, but that model has a tow-in too. What's more, many panel lines have clearly been omitted, though I guess that may be due to printing costs. You can also see from this picture that they goofed on the structures right next to the innermost "hole" in the starboard mandible.)

I believe that was Brickdoctor and me, among others, and if you see just why the '08 series is a "higher cannon" you might see why we're so upset: So far the only canon "higher" than our established Expanded Universe and Clone Wars is a show that doesn't exist yet and this show. Apparently Lucas wasn't happy with crushing the hearts of Original Trilogy fans by turning Vader into a cute little kid (among other points of complaint) and wants to ruin the franchise for the newer generation as well. As thus there's a certain lack of credibility in it. Even if Lucas did create the franchise it doesn't mean we as fans are expected to sit back and cheer as he takes out a part of what we love. And why define a canon "above" Expanded Universe canon? Could it have something to do with the massive retcons that were introduced in the Prequels? See, Vader was never supposed to be cute/innocent. Enough fans were enraged in '83 when Jedi made him out to be a pale, fragile egghead of a man. (Not to mention the fact that it should have been David Prowse under that helmet.) And as Brickdoctor said, with the release of the Prequels Lucas now expects us to sympathize with the figure who was ultimately destined to be evil incarnate (alongside Tarkin, I guess, but they killed Tarkin in the first film.)

Nah. Sets for the most part are pretty bad, and the majority of MOCs are so-so. I don't know, that X-wing looks just a bit too blocky for me... reminds me too much of the UCS set (which was a great set for its time but has many obvious flaws). Am I the only one bothered by the lack of a tow-in on the Falcon's mandibles? They just look too far apart! The cockpit also looks too long in comparison to the stubby cockpit you see on the original 5' model. Considering that this model is actually larger than studio scale (the Falcon model, like the X-wing and Y-wing models, was built close to 1/24 scale - yes guys, the Falcon is, in fact, more than 100 feet in length) I find that somewhat disappointing. EDIT: Link fixed; one of the Falcon models I linked to was actually a miniature and not the 5' model. The obvious differences in detailing should have been a dead giveaway. Oops!

Well I usually tolerate lapses in canon for video games because of game mechanics, and because nobody's going to gripe if a digital X-wing isn't an exact replica of the ILM model because that's not the point. You know, it's not just teens and adults that play these games. When I was younger, virtually everyone aged 7 through 10 played teen-oriented and even some adult-oriented games, and this trend continues today with all the third graders you see on Xbox live. I know many folks whose grade-school kids play games like Call of Duty and Halo and if you asked one of them what a Nebulon-B Frigate or a B-wing was they would know. If I remember correctly, there was a starship in the Droids cartoon series (supposedly taking place well before the Battle of Yavin) that strongly resembled an RZ-1, and they retconned this by inventing the R-22 Spearhead which can be seen in an illustration of the Massasi Temple somewhere. I believe ACPin acknowledged this fact in his MOC.

FBTB found a video of the Miniland models: Falcon and AT-AT are but X-wing and T-47 are

And what, Star Wars video games didn't exist in 2008? This is something I've tried to bring attention to in the past and feel has been overlooked numerous times- the fact that even without cranking out a new ship every week there is a solid and established fanbase for the Star Wars franchise today in the form of video gamers. Not just the Force Unleashed but all the Battlefronts and Rogue Squadrons as well as Galaxies and older games like Galactic Battlegrounds and KOTOR and the X-wing games. People need to realize that these games have breathed new life into Star Wars and in part keep it alive. (I have to pay respects to the Rogue Squadron games for bringing he X-wing into the 21st century). Believe it or not, many of the starships of the Original Trilogy are alive and well in video games. If you've played Battlefront II, for example, you would be familiar with many of the major ships of the films.(This even applies to Expanded Universe ships, as I seem to remember that the TIE Defender has recently resurfaced in a Battlefront game.) I thank the user who took care to point out in another thread that LEGO is ignoring the potential in making ships from Star Wars video games as part of the license and consequently making bad rehashes. We even get new ships from these video games. For example have the Defender and Assault Gunboat (among others) from TIE Fighter, the Ebon Hawk (among others) from KOTOR, the TX-130 (among others) from Battlefront, the T-2B (among others) from Empire at War, etc. I feel that Star Wars fans get their fair share of "interesting and innovative designs" from these video games as well as tributes to older franchises (the Interdictor in Empire at War, for example) and appreciate them for that reason, and feel LEGO should do the same.

First of all, I want to say that there are Star Wars fans who would argue on one side of this issue to their deathbed, and any amount of argument I provide is next to worthless in comparison... I think Dunjohn's made a very good point about the Wars being drenched in computer animation. One of the things that being an AFOL has done for me is give me a new appreciation of the many beautiful studio models constructed for the Original Trilogy (as well as a new contempt for UCS sets, but that belongs in a different thread), and I feel that the number of computer-generated starships in the Special Editions, Prequels, and beyond make them more separate from the Original Trilogy. And scenery porn can get boring. I don't care how massive Theed, Tipoca City, or Mustafar is if it means acting is sacrificed in the process. Amazing scenes created by modern technology is nice, but it detracts from the story. In the Original Trilogy, the story felt personal, with not so much the Alliance against the Empire as Luke, Han, and Leia against Vader. Not so with the Prequels – you’ve got what, the Trade Federation, the IG Banking Clan, the Confederacy of Independent Systems, all this politics junk about secession and blockades… so what? In the end all that is background noise for hollow acting between Natalie, Hayden, and Ewan and doesn’t contribute much. Despite the fact that we do see some political action in Expanded Universe lit I don’t feel Star Wars has ever been a story about politics. Another thing is the depiction of the starships in the Prequels. I have heard Original Trilogy fans state multiple times that the X-wing, TIE fighter, and Millennium Falcon, among other ships, have their own distinctive personalities and are just as much characters in the story as Luke, Han, and Leia. The ships of the Prequels and the Clone Wars, by contrast, are numerous, impossibly diverse, and strangely impersonal. This is apparent in the lack of closeup shots of said starships in the first two Prequels (something I found quite annoying). And the lack of tangible studio models restricts the amount of love you can give to the ship. I know there are model kit enthusiasts out there who know the weathering, detailing, and kitbashed parts of the Falcon or the X-wing on a level that only a true fan would. That kind of passion isn’t possible with a cold digital model. You can talk about the Nu-class shuttle and the Pelta frigate all you want but in the end they don’t feel as realistic as the Original Trilogy starships do. And of course this all fits in with what Brickdoctor said about how visual effects can’t tell a great story. It’s interesting that I’ve encountered all of Cad Bane’s points of argument for the Prequels and the ’08 series (better graphics, better ships, better music)through comments on YouTube clips… I want to say more, but I'm not sure I'll be able to without sounding elitist. I would have to argue for the case of the ’03 Clone Wars series being superior to the '08 series. There are a lot of points, but one I feel I have to mention would be General Grievous. Grievous made his animated debut in Chapter 20 of the ’03 Clone Wars (on Hypori against the Muunilinst 10) and I think he created quite a distinctive image for himself with his wild lightsaber fighting style and the fact that he’s around twice as big as anyone else in the room with a lightsaber, not to mention the fact that he’s got wicked claws and a voice that doesn’t sound like a bad Dracula imitation (as another fan put it). The ’08 series, on the other hand, just took too much from what we’ve already seen from Sith – you’ve got Grievous with his same annoying cough (which, by the way, he didn’t acquire until near the end of the ’03 series), the same whirling lightsabers, the same cheesy backflip into the same ship that obviously wouldn’t have fit him in Sith and shouldn’t fit him now. I feel that for all its computer-generated glory the ’08 series has done Grievous a great disservice by identifying too much with the weakened physical condition he sports in Episode III. As for the Prequels giving the Original Trilogy more depth or meaning, I’m going to say that the idea of the Saga being Anakin’s story just doesn’t do it for me, and I’m going to stop there because I doubt I’ll be able to say any more without making some Original Trilogy fans hopping mad.

The difference between "the" and not having "the" isn't always clear, and I've seen instances in English-speaking countries where people are quite arbitrary about including "the" where appropriate. Furthermore this is an international forum and I understand that English isn't everyone's first language, and the distinction may not be as clear-cut for them (what with the apparent grammatical tolerance on these forums). The prefix "Neo-" allows for more clarity in my opinion, and warrants the creation of a more distinct acronym (nCW - because you guys seem to like your acronyms around here). It's Neo-Clone Wars because it establishes, or at least has tried to establish, a new chronology for the Clone Wars which is currently incompatible with existing canon. The Clone Wars created by Dark Horse was pretty wide in scope, and there were discrepancies with even older canon (the original ending date of the Wars was 35 BBY before the Prequels) but after five years or so its documentation is relatively solid and the order of events and campaigns is at the very least coherent. The '08 series had a discrepancy from the beginning concerning the date of Anakin's knighting and the introduction of certain ships such as the Venator, and it just gets more confusing from there. At this point it's just easier to think of the '08 series and related comics as a franchise separate from the older '03 franchise. I understand what StoutFiles is saying, except for this: I don't quite understand where this is coming from. Could you explain?

First of all, I did not use the words “stupid” or “worthless” at all in my previous post. Second, I do not believe that the Clone Wars is worthless. Although the point can be made that the Clone Wars portrayed in the Republic comics and the ’03 animated series does little to portray the horrors implied in pre-Prequel lore, it is nonetheless a key part of the Star Wars canon and I am trying my best not to bash it. (Thanks to you all, I am becoming more and more accepting of the Prequels every day.) As I have stated many times, it is the Neo-Clone Wars with its excessive inconsistencies with the established canon and numerous instances of aesthetically displeasing starship designs (at least in my opinion) which I disapprove of. And I don’t feel that my disapproval of certain Neo-Clone Wars starships have anything to do with the Neo-Clone Wars itself (it’s really more the other way around); it’s purely personal preference. I honestly don’t like the MC80 Star Cruisers used in Jedi too much either simply because they have a smoother organic look which doesn’t really fit with the sharper designs of the Avenger, the Executor, or the Redemption. Don’t get me wrong, they’re great space opera designs; they just don’t seem to belong in the Star Wars galaxy in my opinion. Nowhere did I say that the lack of redesigns for Neo-Clone Wars sets made them inferior in quality to Original Trilogy sets. I wasn’t referring to people simply being familiar with the ships. Of course people are familiar with them! Would a kid growing up in the ‘90s not recognize a Megazord when he/she saw one? It's not just the eyes; these figures are getting ridiculously detailed. The printing on the new ARF minifigure makes the pilot from 7259 look like a 6-year-old's work. And all the bounty hunters from 7930 have leg printing. Why do such relatively insignificant characters have minifigure renditions with leg printing? Could it have something to do with the set having only 389 pieces? EDIT: Agreed to both points.

Of course he does! After all, they even made this guy into an action figure. He has no backstory and features relatively little in the Star Wars universe. And have you noticed we've also had Captain Antilles and General Madine (two individuals with relatively few lines) as minifigures and will possibly be seeing Wald? (Not to mention there have also been minifigures of Aldar Beedo and Gasgano who I don't even remember seeing in the film.) Do Phase II clones even wear additional armor? I thought they just changed the helmet design. I expect to see some 91st troopers and Galactic Marines with detailed new helmet molds when the Neo-Clone Wars finally gets around to introducing the Eta-2 Actis and the Alpha-3 Nimbus.