Hinckley

Hi, Snotra. Want to kiss one of my piggies? Oink. So, while I realize you are "joking" about being the serial killer, I believe the reverse psychology of it could be that you would never joke about such a thing if you were actually the serial killer. It's a bold move, yet safe place to hide. Your introductory PM to me started "19 y/o serial killer looking to hook up with Scum" or something like that. Ho ho hee hee, what a fun joke. You are the type to use reverse psychology and you have successfully employed it before. Next, was your fit. You know I'm the most paranoid Viking in all Valhalla. You say it all the time. Yet you think being a dick and a bully was going to get me to reveal my sources to you? I think you knew better and you were trying to draw out the conflict (it was you who posted it in the day thread) so you can show people that you were in Snotra-dick-bully Town mode. "He can't be the serial killer when he's so clearly in Town-mode". Expecting to know everything, being a dick, being a bully. And while I reworded the summary of your PMs, what you call "leveraging your vote" is actually called blackmail. It's a really odd tactic and I doubt you thought it would actually work, especially with me. Offering a vote for exchange of info that could hurt the Town if it got into the wrong hands? I seriously doubt you ever had a chance of successfully getting any info out of me. You were staging a Town-Snotra performance to get people's suspicions away from you. I'm on what the ancient Vikings called "Airplane WIFI" so I won't be quoting you directly, but I thought your behavior during the Dragmall/Hervi conflict was weird as well. Mediator between us was a weird role to choose and you tended to play devil's advocate with both of us. Believing Dragmall never claimed neutral just because he says he didn't was a weird thing for you to believe so quickly. But more damning for you is that you probably were pissed at me for "treating you like a child" which is weird, since I'm treating you like a smart player and a potential threat to the Town by not wanting you to have any info, not like a child. But, you probably were ego-wounded or something and you were definitely convinced that Chief Mursi and I were both Scum and, lo and behold, it's Chief Mursi who ends up dead at the hands of the Serial Killer last night. Well, what a coincidence. Maybe the serial killer was just trying to frame you... Wha? Aaaaaah! You scared me. Don't sneak up on people like that. Who are you? Where did you come from? I don't remember ever seeing around you before. Oh, don't you worry. I'm almost out of my Chicago trance and the airplane WIFI will hopefully provide me the service to collect my final affront and get it brought to everyone. Stop being such a stick in the pig-sty. You're boring this time. Lighten up.

I have a very sick piggy. Would you mind using her to play your fire games? I'd like to put her out of her misery.

Can't answer that. Several people out there know why I can't. I'll tell you some day. As far as leaking, please don't anybody worry that I'm sharing any info entrusted to me with anybody else. I don't even like sieves. They make it very difficult to bring water to my piggies.

I can't figure out what you're missing from the "sequence". I had a talk with Dragmall where we compared what we knew and talked about this issue surround a "joke" made by another player who had already been killed (although while said player was still alive). I unvoted him to avoid any more votes coming for him. At that point, it didn't necessarily take me off the chopping block and I had no guarantee he would unvote me. I still could've been lynched but I didn't feel Dragmall was what I had thought he was so I unvoted. People do tend to follow my votes in these things and I didn't want to be responsible for someone who could be a loyal Einherjar and if the original accuser unvoted, I figured the others would as well. At that point there was no better candidate, in my eyes, than the one that (fhomess) had already voted for. Gofraid and Mursi were also suspicious of her, so I voted along with the people I was conversing with. We did decide as a group that we would vote for Gerrid. That's the sequence of events. I did already say that I understand my lynch will reveal the most, so I hope the Einherjar learn enough to win this. No hard feelings. Who am I leaking information to?

So, I'm in the mythical land of "Chicago" for the weekend so this is likely to be my last post. Spending time with my family is a little more important that spending hours composing posts that are going to be met with distrust anyway. I understand why you guys are voting for me, no hard feelings, and I hope my death uncovers everything the Town needs to win this. The fun left this for me today, anyway, so I prefer not to continue. I will vote: Snotra (Scubacarrot) as I have a sneaking suspicion she is the serial killer. It's all reverse psychology but I've seen her employ this tactic before. She's "joked" twice about being the serial killer, threw a childish fit like she did as a Townie in a previous game, tried to blackmail me to get the identities of important power roles and had more than a bit of ire for Chief Mursi. With a vendetta against me and convinced Mursi and I were Scum, it would make sense for Snotra to target Mursi. So, take that as you will. That's my hunch, nothing more, nothing less. Catch you all on the flipz side.

I explained how I arrived at my vote when I placed my vote. The perspective of "I know who I trust and they're not being accused so I have no need to defend them" is clearly from a brain caught in the mindset of being Scum. It is also a suspicion I had been discussing with Mursi and Gofraid.

You and Petrus keep bringing up the playing style of Artemis and it really seems like anything you're asking will just push the explanation closer to revealing her identity. You can insist you don't want her identity all you want, but the explanations you're asking for would require her identity to satisfy it. Others were able to figure things out, I'm surprised the two of you haven't, so I was also waiting for you and Petrus to put two and two together. To be honest, the two of you are usually more fun during these games and I haven't seen the fun side, you've both been kind of serious and somewhat smug and sarcastic, so I haven't felt much like responding to you. It seems you and your friend Petrus have tunnel vision on me and I was hoping it would go away as I prove myself with my actions. However, at this point, I do believe if the cloaked killer killed me at night and I was declared Einherjar in the morning, you and Petrus would claim that Odin is lying to us and try to vote him out. I did think of something today and I wondered if you and Petrus haven't been suspicious of me from the beginning due to a conversation in a pub, a real pub where D&D was discussed over mead. I really hope your suspicions haven't been based on that conversation... Not to mention, some of your questions keep repeating. I think I've answered the question about why I came forward with the play when I did a couple times, but here it is again: I thought there were two investigators and bringing the info forward would either warn people we were up against something that needed two or warn a real investigator in case the claims were fake. That investigator would be able to expose them, hopefully through finding some safe anonymous way to announce that they were the investigator. Also further discussion could be had about being up against two factions or a bunch of neutrals, or even a cult and if something else showed up strange in Night Action results, people could bring forward further evidence to anything strange. The timing of the play was actually suggested by Gofraid the Foog. And there would be absolutely no hard feelings if that ends up happening. Whatever side you are on, we're already dead anyway. Understood. It would be hard to lynch a claimed investigator. Unfortunately, I'm in the position to know that the disorientation doesn't mean I'm not Einherjar, but it'll be good to see what happens after you guys figure it out, from the after-afterlife. I get the feeling she is just stuck. She's super smart and wouldn't play this bold if she were a Servant of Loki. We shall see, yes. And I would understand if I was lynched considering everything that has been revealed today.

I'm going to follow Sveinn's earlier confusing example of using spoilers to hide the reactions directly to Dragmall, so the focus can be on my theory of what is going on with Artemis's results. I was unaware that this was how Artemis's result came in until I saw you post it in the thread. I can understand why she would bring it to someone else if she didn't trust me, but I now wonder about her alignment. If she didn't tell me at first and told someone else instead, is she trying to blindside me and get me lynched? After I defended her and concealed her identity, I would think she would trust me to discuss an odd result. I even spoke to someone else about potentially talking to her to bring the info forward, so people wouldn't suspect the result about me. At that time I was convinced by your friend to not bring forward any of her results at all. So, it seems a trap was sprung on me. She claims she didn't want to discuss the "disoriented" part because she wanted another night's result to compare. If that's the case, why would she tell someone who hadn't been helping her for two days? It's possible that result was made up to turn suspicion on me, especially considering her reasoning for not telling me the whole story doesn't add up when you consider she told someone she had less reason to trust. I'm really regretting hinging my game on her roleclaim... But she was blocked on Night One. Is there another investigation result from that night? That would be a decidedly stupid result to make up. May I offer option C. I'm Einherjar and she's Scum who is ready to be done with keeping up her lies with me and has made up the result to implicate me? When have my methods ever seemed normal? So, was your suspicion against Petrus part of your "act" to see what I was up to? When you told me you thought she was Scum because the protector that targeted her reported being disoriented in the morning, how did I respond? Did I say "let's lynch her!" or did I say, "How does a woozy protector mean she's been converted? " I know what I said, so you don't have to answer. You're right. My mistake. You and your friend both guessed the identity of Artemis and your friend guessed Poseidon as well. For some reason, I associated his conversation with both of you. I'm speaking to many people behind the scenes. I agree that lynching will confirm me, but I doubt most of you think I'm asking suspiciously. Seems like only a handful of you. I've been wrong before though, and am prepared for anything. I think it's worth exploring if Artemis isn't forging the result on the orders of her Scum team to get rid of someone who was forming a strong Town block. My two closest allies die in the night and then my third closest "ally" reveals a result to someone they had just begun talking to that implicates me and conveniently is best solved by lynching me...Breaking up a strong town block in just the course of one game day would be good momentum for them...

I've spoken with Artemis. She did not inform me that she was woozy, but now confirms that it was part of her result. She also confirms that her result was phrased as "believing" we were on the same team, which I agree, would all indicate that something is wrong with the result. Her explanation for not sharing this info with me is that she did not trust her result. I wouldn't share it with me either if the result was not trusted. I'm not sure what it was about Dragmall that made her trust him, but there we have it. Dragmall informed me that a protector got the same result in the morning about being "woozy" after Night One, so had Artemis told me that she was woozy, I would've shared that with Dragmall right away as I did share the result that I was given with him. So, I'm exhausted and more than a little confused, so I'm going to go wrap a sack around my head and go roll in the mud with my piggies. Oink

A lot of what you are saying here is conjecture and based on assumption and probably (and most unfortunately) the continuing influence of a ghost. But since this is what I have in context of our situation, this is what I have to directly respond to, so let me see if I can't show where you're over-thinking our results, or possibly manipulating them. As far as convincing "my group" to vote for Genaro, yes I asked a couple people if they would vote along and you know exactly why I asked that. And there's something else you're missing that would require me identifying Artemis to point out, so I'll send you that in private. And I spoke of voting for Genaro when you had more votes than me and most people hadn't weighed in yet. I've explained several times and you've offered no evidence to the contrary, that the information that you had claimed to be a neutral was presented as a joke. You yourself even admit that Steinvoir was messing with my head, so how could it be presented as a joke and messing with my head at the same time? I don't see how it can be both. Considering a vote for Genaro at the time I did was due to the discussion being had. I was being "indecisive," as you then stated was my Town tell, yet now you're calling it a Scum tell. My thoughts always evolve during these games and they respond to information given by others and thoughts, discussions and theories raised by others. As far as talking about protecting someone, I only suggested the Town blocker, that you mentioned to me, being protected. I know of other Power Roles and wouldn't mention them to you as I have no reason to fully trust you yet. So, no, I wouldn't say I think Gofraid (or anyone else who has claimed to me) has an Action, go protect him as you are just as likely to be Scum. The information you brought me yesterday that caused our truce hasn't been confirmed and neither have you. I haven't had much contact with you outside of that conversation, so your sudden turn back to suspecting me must be based on the influence of others, or possibly your own Scuminess. Discussion of why this person did what they did would give away their identity, so since you already know who it is, I would only be willing to discuss this with you in private. How does someone "thinking" or "believing" something line up with being woozy? And what does being woozy mean? I'm waiting to hear back from Artemis as I didn't get this as part of her results. Seeing what she wrote to me this morning I see the word "believe" but took it as the way she was telling me, not that it was a caveat from the host. Yes, it is a concern if that was part of the results from the host, but as I don't have confirmation from her, I'm not sure exactly what to think of it. I know I am Einherjar so I would find the result annoying as I just wanted to move forward from this point. However, this is the first result we've gotten from Artemis so we have nothing to compare it to. In previous games, we've seen "thinks" or "believes" as a result of a naive investigator and from a redirection of an ascetic bwankie. Tailoring or framing usually involves a definite result, at least in my experience, or when it's my turn to host D&D. Either way, one result is not enough to base anything concrete off of and I heard no discussion of this from Artemis so I'd like to speak with her to discern if anybody is manipulating her. Furthermore, I didn't know who Artemis was investigating. Originally she told me she would target me and Petrus and when I discussed that with Mursi and Gofraid they said that if we couldn't see results from Artemis she was going to get me and her or both of us lynched. So, I asked Artemis to please target herself and someone else. I didn't say it had to be me, I just said someone else. If she came back today with results that said "I compared player x and player y and they're on the same team" or "I compared player x and player y and they're on different teams." and player x or y wasn't Artemis, I would expect everyone would ask for her identity and to lynch her because we would all be left scratching our heads. (Especially imagine in this situation if she came back with "I compared Petrus and Hervi... ) She did tell me eventually I would be the other target, but I had no reason to believe that was true. I would hope she would leave that open-ended for herself as someone should who doesn't have their confidante verified. Sometimes I do wonder if it's been worth the trouble I've been going through to help Artemis, but as I'd hate to lose (potentially) our only investigator, I've been working pretty hard to help her out. And that has explained many of my Actions to you as we talked about yesterday. Well, this is true. Gofraid would've made a good target for the Scum. He's a smart player and other smart players were trusting him and it pretty much came out in the day thread that he had an Action, if you were paying attention. I bet the Scum are paying close attention and would've caught that. Or as Petrus suggested, a role cop found him. That would be extremely lucky for night one, but as the "blocker" or whoever is stealing Gofraid's spear is also wearing a hood like the other boar-vandalizing jerks from the beginning, it is likely that he was blocked and killed by the same side. Certainly a concern that they knew he was up to something. If a role cop targeted him Night One and found out he was the vigilante, of course the Scum would want to block and kill him. And isn't it also an added bonus for the Servants of Loki that killing Gofraid has focused your suspicions on me and caused you to elevate me to your main suspect? Perhaps they thought the death of Gofraid would implicate a pig-lover who was starting to form a town block. Oink oink. But if this "thinking" or "believing" thing in her result is what's led you to believe I've messed with the results somehow, how would Artemis be implicated if I am Scum? Can't be both. If we're both Scum, why would she give a result that implicates me? Just like your woozy boy, if Artemis confirms that his result was worded weirdly, we don't know what that means. You're very quick to jump to the conclusion that the result itself was tampered with when a protector got a woozy result on someone, which as far as I know in unprecedented. I don't see how the two situations compare. Both days I have placed a vote. Both of the people I voted for ended up getting lynched. I hardly call what I've done manipulation. Again, you know why I asked you to vote for Genaro and it's not because I'm desperate to perform a meatshield. This is a ridiculous theory employing several assumptions. And you know I can't explain why I asked you to vote for Genaro, which would be a very convenient place for Scum to sit. I don't know which you are, Scum or a Townie misguided by echoes from the grave, but bringing up something I can't defend myself against publicly would be a rather clever Scum move. You and your closest ally were two people who knew who Poseidon was. I've always said I would take a lynch before giving up any of the identities of those who have claimed to me. I stand by that if that's what needed. However, it seems the only concrete thing you have would be Artemis's odd result, which I haven't even clarified yet, so I'd like to hear more from Artemis about that. Everything else you have is based on assumptions and conjecture. I think the Scum would want me lynched because I stand as a threat that can steamroll them by confirming and coordinating the people who claimed to me. The other two people who were my backups, and knew almost everything I knew are unfortunately dead. I'm sure the Town can get by without me as long as I leave the information with a likely successor who will continue to help. But, I will not just lay down and be lynched for someone who has done nothing in this game but accuse me based on metagaming and then continue to accuse me based on a mass of assumptions. You could be Scum, or manipulated by Scum, or just over-thinking what we've seen. I suspect you are simply haunted by Shadows of the past... I don't think you'd be this bold as Scum, so I assume you are an Einherjar. It's a shame that you've convinced yourself by what are probably your own jumps in logic or other influences. If we can confirm each other, we can pool our knowledge and have a good chunk of Town Power Roles working together. I suggest we start by looking further into Artemis's result. If she's gone to you, she doesn't trust me at this point and I'm wondering why. And after all you know I've been doing for her, I'd find the lost of her trust troubling, as if she's being influences by an outside source.

Only this: But maybe I'm misinterpreting...

The fact that he was Einherjar and had the ability to kill a target at night would indicate that he was the vigilante.

Perhaps you are referring to Dragmall, as Bergulf never voted for me. See?

You were trying to say "that it is".

He doesn't appear to have done anything the first night. A serial killer or second faction rid us of Jormund.

Nobody knew he was the vigilante until the day pictures came up. He was talking to the tracker so maybe the tracker knew, but I doubt Gofraid told him or her if he hadn't even told me or Mursi. The two people who guessed Poseidon's identity just guessed because he seemed to respond to my play in a way that showed we were talking and the way Gofraid and I were discussing things, in thread. I didn't even know he was the vigilante. I just knew he had an action. Gofraid, even when playing Scum, doesn't like to lie (unless he absolutely has to) so Chief Mursi claimed vanilla and Gofraid just kind of clammed up. That's Gofraid-speak for "I have an Action." I've known him for a long time. I actually did assume it was vigilante because after Jormund was killed, Gofraid had an excellent analysis of his posts and was very ready with them, so I thought he had caught the Scum tells on Day One and killed him, but it turns out that wasn't the case. None of the people who guessed his name actually knew he had an action until it came up between you and Mursi. And before you ask, yes I told you Poseidon had an Action without knowing for sure, but I wanted to see if you would insist on Poseidon's identity knowing he had an Action. And you kind of did insist... in a roundabout way, but our perception of eachother's intentions during our private conversation clearly differ... See my answer above. Thank you for pointing out the cloak and hood. I feel so observant. Oh God, duh. Yes, the inside killer wears a cloak and hood just like all the Servants of Loki we saw molesting our magic boar on the first day. The outdoor killer is a nudist. So the Servants of Loki have killed Steinvoir and Gofraid while some wild card or other faction is killing the others. I'm not looking closely enough at what our host is trying to tell us. Oink.

I'm assuming he was blocked considering the opening talks about someone running off with his spear and him not having a way to kill his target. Also, in looking over both days I realize I'm only assuming that God is doing us the favor of providing some sort of modus operandi. The first killer each night has killed in the hall and the second kills outside. The second killer is the one who killed Jormund, so I assume the serial killer went after Chief Mursi. That's probably too much to assume considering they're all using the same sword. But like I said, there are a couple people who knew Poseidon's identity and knew he had an action. If one of those people is Scum, that's certainly enough motivation to kill him. Mursi was vanilla and outed himself. I guess the Scum could've gone after him as well to break up whatever Town block I was forming. Also, however, if you look closely, Gofraid kind of confirms himself as Poseidon in some of the responses to my play. And Snotra and Mursi's interaction show that Poseidon had an Action. Damn, we have to be more careful...

Well, I'm overjoyed to hear that we were right about Gerrid! We should have an interesting voting pattern to analyze now. Take that, vile Servants of Loki! Oink oink squeal! You are below my piggies...well, most people are, in my opinion. Well, you are beneath most people's opinions of my beautiful piggies! Stupid Servants... However, considering the horrible loss of Chief Mursi and Gofraid the Foog, it pull the winds out of my longboat sails quite a bit. Interestingly enough, Chief Mursi was Aphrodite, as he told you all yesterday, and it was Gofraid the Foog, clearly our vigilante, who was Poseidon, a fact that a couple other Vikings were able to guess in private... So there goes half of the cast of my play. It appears that Jormund was killed by a serial killer as Gofraid seems to have preferred a spear while Chief Mursi was killed with a sword the same way Jormund was. Gofraid and Steinvoir were also killed by a sword though. Perhaps the Scum and serial killer both use swords or there are two Scum factions out there. Ugh... Either way, it appears that two non-Einherjar entities were responsible for the Night One killings. I very highly doubt we are dealing with one team of Scum that has the ability to perform two kills in one night. Well, my nest is empty over here... Oink oink squeal. On the other side of things, this is great for the Einherjar, who have scored two Servants of Loki in two days. That's excellent momentum to ride into the third day of this ordeal.

Oh my God, what is happening in this topic? There's so much beauty in it. Each creation deserves it's own thread. Are you insane putting them all in one place? I will comment more later but they're all very impressive.

These are amazing and the fact that you're working with your Mom is very sweet. My favorite is the xylophone. I want to pick it up and give it a hug.

I explained this when someone first asked me who knew about Artemis. Now that we know Chief Mursi is Aphrodite I can be more clear. Chief Mursi is a friend, we tend to talk during these games. When Artemis claimed to me, I used Chief Mursi as a backup, naturally, in case Artemis was lying and felt caught in the lie and had me killed. Then something happened that made me suspect Chief Mursi. On the chance I was being played by Artemis and Chief Mursi, I told Poseidon as well, so I had a double backup. From there, they both knew the story and so they've been advising me since. I need advise during these things, especially when a lot of people are talking to me. It helps clear my head and Chief Mursi has always proven to be good for that. Through out interactions, they both seem on the level and have so far been true to their word. Only time will tell if they can actually be trusted with everything and what side they are on.

What makes you think I'm trusting them? They've made claims to me, if their actions don't match up, I'll hold their feet to the fire. Just because I'm concealing their identities for now doesn't mean that I trust them. They're trusting me and I'll honor that as I try to verify them. Once a verification fails, they're thrown to the tigers. Have you ever been thrown to tigers with feet on your fire? It's not pleasant.

There's almost 5 pages or so of reactions, plus the people who are starting conversations with me in private. That's definitely worth something. People can't be saying this much without revealing their lies... Thank you for verifying my play. I appreciate it and I apologize that you now have to deal with Snotra's brash attitude...

No, I most certainly did not. A bunch of sarcastic questions and conjectures have inferred that but I did not coach one word that has come out of Bergulf's mouth.

To tell you the truth, I don't really think it's necessary because I find your actions ridiculous. I can't see how anyone would expect results from such pressure and expect trust out of thin air, but let's try this. It's the best way I know how to respect the rest of the Einherjar. I'm bringing forward the information I think will help us make decisions. And at the same time, concealing the identities of people who may want to reveal their Night Action results without making themselves targets. This day is not wasted. There are a ton of people reacting and hiding and saying things that can prove to be slip-ups later and as we are picking off the last Scum, there is a ton of ammo in here to condemn them. When they are caught in their lies, it will be the stuff that was uncovered today and on days like this that will nail them. As for my vote, I'm not voting for Dragmall, and I don't expect anybody else to, so why would I not vote for another likely lead to follow? I've told you all I'm going to tell you about my interactions with Dragmall. We spoke with each other about the nature of the accusations and came to the conclusion that we should not be suspecting each other. Anything else that comes out of our discussions, I'll let the Town know when it potentially affects their decision. Your story does not cut it with me. I have no reason to trust you. None. I suspect you are just this way and need to be pushy to know what's going on, but last time I suspected that you turned out to be a mole and you had me pretty fooled for a while. You're very smart and very tricky and I don't trust you and can't trust you for no reason. I keep repeating this, that's probably why I won't respond to everything you say, line by line. So, how many ways can I tell you I won't be giving you any information? If I tell people who it is, the chances certainly get higher.