doug72

I still have one lurking somewhere but no longer remember how it was used. All my training at marine college and early time at sea was done using slide rules and C/ens insisted you use the hated log tables to work out daily fuel consumtions etc.

Update: bucket wheel loader using 28Z gears succesful Version 1:- Test rig proven using the new 28Z gears but difficult to set timing due to gear back lash and long drive shafts with torsional twisting. Also as the drive was taken from the axle for the trip rotor it was subject to variations of rotation as the trip started to act & had a big jolt when trip released the train. Idea discarded. Version 2. Rebuilt using the bucket wheel from previous build . Took a while to get the 28Z gear meshing which done by adjusting the large gear ring support rollers. Best were 16mm diam. I made these by putting suitable size tires on 11mm dia. pulley hubs. Next step was to arrange the ball loading ramp so just enough clearance for each bucket to pass without hitting the ramp. Then Train reverser added and general layout of gears etc. worked out. Bucket wheel gearing 140/28 x 24/8 x 24/8 = 45:1 Train reverser trip rotor with one lobe: 24/8 x 24/8 x 40/8 = 45:1 Version 2 gearing had the 9:1 stage arranged differently - see image. The 40/8 gears were placed after the 9:1 gears and before the step up gears. This drove the combined right angle gear box with 2 stage 1:2 step up gears. Again problems with timing the ball loading rotor due to gearing back lash which was approx 30 º making timing impossible. So abandoned and thinking cap put on again ! Version 3:- success at last. This time gearing made direct from the train drive. A separate double 1:1 right angle gear box lines up with input and out put to the main timing gearbox. This part which I don't yet have could also be used :- LEGO Connector Beam 1 x 3 x 3 (39793) This was built within a box using 5 x 7 frames:- 1st stage: 2 x 1/2 step up gears (1:4) 2nd stage: 2 x 3:1 reduction gears (9:1) 3rd stage: 40/8 reduction gears (5:1) ie 1/4 x 24/8 x 24/8 x 40/8 = 11.25:1 This gives the correct reduction of which synchronises the loading of each bucket with wheel rotation & train reverser. By placing the large 40T gear close to the axle for the ball loading rotor gear back lash has almost been eliminated. Final connection between 40T gear and rotor axle uses two uni-couplings to because the half stud problem The uni-coupling were reinforced by small O rings to prevent the bushes cracking. After setting the timing and some minor adjustments to the ball input ramp the module is working OK. Some tidying up to do and some more proof testing before I make a new video. PS: all the gear ratios were worked out using pencil & paper with the aid of a calculator.

1/. Does the problem occur without the other parts attached above connecting to the two 16T gears ? If so the cause is down stream of the broken part. OR 2/. Does the problem occur when the the other gearbox parts are attached above ? If so then the problem is up stream of the part that keeps breaking. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I suspect many forum members have had similar issues building MOCs when we “hit the post” The answer is to problem shoot step by step to identify whats causing it and if it not fixable to go back to the & start again. The problem is not caused by the 12T tan gear,its the result of something causing too much friction or torque either before or after that part. N.B Dual posts are frowned upon.

Very usefull as i have arthritis in both thumbs and can be difficult to pick up small parts.

Its obvious the 5-1/2 L axle is too short and only protrudes a 1/4 L inside the black braket, which is not enough to engage with a 12T Tan gear, hence the skipping sound when under power. Probably feels oK when turn by hand & not under load. see photo AS suggested perhaps best tio start from basics again,

New GBC Train Module: Bucket Wheel Loader. Version 2 Simplified. (WIP) Following the acquisition of getting the new LEGO Angled Gear Wheel Z28 (4637 I have re-designed this module and made the gearing much simpler. Gone are the two 56T turntables for the train reverser and the ball loading rotor along with the large spread out gear system required to load the buckets in sync. A test module was built to prove this would work, see image below. Bucket Wheel: Two 28Z gears drive the large gear curved gear racks which gives a 5: 1 reduction. Drive from the train unit to the 28Z gears is 9:1giving an overall reduction of 45:1 (140/28 x 24/8 x 24/8 = 45) Train Reverser: 40T gear used to turn the trip arm. A 40T gear with a 8T gear also gives 5:1 reduction. (40/8 x 24/8 x 24/8 = 45). Ball loading rotor: This is driven from the axle for the 40T reverser trip rotor and via a new combined right angle drive with two stage 1:4 step up gears & synchronises the bucket loading with the train release. Combined right angle gear box with 1:4 step up New gearbox uses built using three LEGO V-engine Block Connector (28840 / 32333) to replace the one seen in the image above. Built up axles are used instead of long axles due to eliminate any twisting when using long axles. Module to be re-built using the original bucket wheel with the new gearing arrangement.

Through Rotary Dumper Train GBC (Update) See earlier posting on this thread on page 11 for previous self contained version. I have now modified this module to have seperate input and output thus allowing it to connect to other GBC modules. Previous return return conveyor removed and a new dischage conveyor installed which is driven by the train reverser at the rotary dumper end. High capacity ball lift driven by the other reverser, input probably needs re-building to meet GBC regs. The module is quite long at 106 Cms. Support structure for the conveyor to be improved. PS still hunting from lost balls during testing ! Video: A short video showing the revised module.

Thanks, it should be useful for other GBC modules & be widened to transfer more balls.

Thanks, now found a place on my shelves to store the module. Currently converting my Though Rotary Dumper to a Input & output module instead of re-cycling the balls. Need the large Lego Chain used for the reurn conveyor for another project.

Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for your comments,it took awhile but finally satisfied with the build. Biggest problem was building on a studded base plate and getting axles to line up both vertically & horizontally due to the 1/2 stud problem. Especially pleased with the ball loading rotor which very reliable at delivering only 3 balls to each bucket. Last problem is where to store this module !!

Uploading using Flickr works OK.

A puzzling problem While checking that all my train units would work with this GBC there were occasions when the reverser tripped but train refused to leave the reverser. Took awhile to find out why, the train trip bar on the opposite side of the train was hitting the black 36T gear preventing full movement and not activating the PF switch. Whole reverser unit moved 1 stud away & now operates OK. This meant re-timing the bucket wheel. Sometimes the last ball to drop onto the discharge chute would miss the train as it reversed and drop onto the reverser, ramp lowered at train end by 1/2 stud to make it steeper and now OK.

Well done on getting the original Akiyuki version working, I tried many times but always failed to get it syncronised. It just had to miss one gear tooth during rotation to get out of sync.

Ingenious but how do you get a 15T gear. Can you show a larger image showing them.

I uploaded a video today on this forum without clicking the Coppa box so is just a USA requirement? I clicked unlisted as usual and embedded to file.

Update and new video: Module still un-reliable and reverted to the original 4 lobe ball loading rotor with moderate success. Too many balls on the loading unit caused balls to jam or fail to enter each bucket. Each bucket can hold 3 balls without any problems but if any more try to load and enter the bucket they either don’t load or fall out as wheel rotates. Have now come up with a solution that allows only maximum 3 balls to load into each bucket. This required a new rotor as seen in image made using eight LEGO Half Beam 3 x 3 Bent 90 Degrees with Curve (32249) New ball loading rotor - 3 balls per bucket. To synchronise balls loading into each bucket required speeding up the rotation of the new rotor by 2, requiring another 1:2 gear box in the drive chain. At first tried a planetary gearing giving 1:4 step up to replace using two 1:2 stages, but rejected as too large and had high friction. 1:4 Planetary Gear box The existing right angle / 1:1 adjusting gear box was replaced by a new gearbox with 1:2 step gearing with adjusting gear for timing. Extra 1:2 gear box New ball loading unit New 2 lobe rotor along with axle with pin connectors prevents any more than 3 balls from enter the ball loading rotor. Module now tested and consistent in loading only 3 balls per bucket without any ball dropping. New Video:

Perhaps we need a B model competition.

Ball loading control gate. After a lot of experimenting and failures I finally found a way to stop too many balls trying to enter the bucket loading rotor. Tried various versions of a rotating horizontal disc with pins to transfer a limited number of balls to the rotating ball loader but none successful. Either too many or only one ball at a time. Had many spectactuar jams with balls flying everwhere, still hunting for some !! Loading speed was very slow so tried speed up gears but evereything ground to a halt if a ball jammed. Finally settled on rotor made using knob gears and changes to stop ball jamming in the loading chute. Some fine tuning done to stop balls over shooting the discharge chute as they drop from the buckets.

PUpdate Improved ball collecting ramp: While further testing to sort out ball loading problem I noted the bucket wheel was out of sync. with wheel not stoping at same point each time train releases, causing some balls to drop and not enter the ball carrier. This due to train reversers 72:1 reduction not matching the bucket wheel reduction. Still looking for a solution to the ball loading problem. Bespoke 63:1 reverser now built, see images which show how. This will replace the existing 72:1 reverser. Reverser with compact 63:1 reduction:

Thanks for your comments, When testing I had a ball jam in there, which resulted with balls flying everywere !!! Clearance is very tight but I see if can fit them. Idealy I need a curved concave filler that fits the radius required so that bucket edge just clears it. I will make a mock up to try some ideas. The widened collection chute is working well & catching balls that drop early. One new problem, as train departs sometimes a late ball drops & misses the train hopper & drops into the train reverser and hard to retrive, have now filled in the space between the track to make easier to pick up.

Ball loading chute modified and less balls now escaping ! Buckets able to carry 3 ball without any problems, any more tend to fall out before reaching the discharge chute, This due to the internal shape of the bucket. See video at 30 - 33 secs. After running the video at 0.25 speed I noted the point at which excess balls fall out of the bucket if its over loaded. Three solutions: 1/. improved ball inlet control gate to load only 3 balls per bucket. 2/. Install a seperate collection chute to catch errant balls and re-cycle them back to the inlet loading gate. 3/. Widen the collection chute to catch balls that fall out early. Option 3/. adopted and catches 99% of balls in the system

(Train GBC) Bucket Wheel Loader Mk. 3 This has gone though several builds & strip downs until I am almost satisfied with the module. Mk:1 Basic layout and drive system devised with wheel having eight buckets which I had used for a previous MOC, now dis-assembled. (LEGO Black Shovel 5 x 7 x 4 1/2 with Hole/cross (18943 / 42196) Drive from train was direct to two 16T gears engaged with the curved gear racks for a gear ratio of 8.75:1 Loading chute made with 4 lobe rotor to load 3 per bucket. This failed as I was unable to get ball loader to synchronise with bucket wheel rotation. My thoughts turned to how the Train rotary dumper was synchronised which used the magic number 21. Mk 2:- As per Mk 1 but with the drive for ball loader rotor taken from the axis of the bucket wheel but still unable to get correct synchronisation. Mk 3: Success at last. 21 x 3 was the solution. Train arrives and directly drives the bucket wheel in via 21:1 gearing which turns two 20T gears which engage with the curved gear racks. To giviOveral reduction is 63:1 140/20 x 24/8 x 36/12 ( 7 x 3 x 3) = 63 At same time the drive to the ball loader also starts using another 63:1 gear train gearing to match rotation with the bucket wheel. Drive to the ball loader is 63:1 gearing using a 56T turntable with two 3/1 gears to get the desired 63/1 to match the bucket wheel gearing. ( 56/8 x 24/8 x 24/8) 7 x 3 x 3 =63 But only four buckets were loading. Solved - 8 wheel buckets but only 4 lobes on the ball loading rotor. Solution, speed up ball loading rotor using 1:2 step up gears so the ball loader loads every bucket. Overall gear ratio to drive loading rotor is 31.5:1 Next step was to build the collection chute to deliver balls into the train ball hopper. Tested and have some minor issues if too many balls are on the inlet ramp which tends to overload the number of balls trying to enter the wheel buckets. ( to be improved ) Last task is to set the train unit release timing. One rotation of the bucket wheel with 3 balls per bucket = 24 balls. If set train to release after 10 buckets = 30 balls per trip matching GBC rules. Some images of the build below - a video will be made & posted later. Biggest problem during the build was the 1/2 stud offset, both vertically & horizontally between studful & studless parts & axles. Update:- Train reverser gearing changed to 72:1 for the trip rotor with only in one trip arm which makes bucket wheel rotate by 9 buckets, carrying 27 balls per trip cycle of approx 24 seconds. If more than three balls try to load per bucket then some balls escape, still to resolve this problem. Improved ball loading control gate

For use in the Red Rough Terrain. Crane.

FThe biggest problems I have with mixing Technic Studless & Studful is accomodating the 1/2 stud offset between the two systems. Especially when arranging gears to get correct meshing and I often I have to devise ways to achieve this when building GBC modules. The two books by Yoshinito Isoogawa have many ideas & solutions for this problem.