mostlytechnic

Clever design, and great functionality for the small scale. Love it!

True. But are the scum really likely to have abilities beyond the costumes? (obviously, a kill, but more than that?) With this many abilities bouncing around I just don't see them having more.

Point taken, framer is a completely one-sided role and very unlikely to be here.

Well, I learned something today. I assumed a bus driver was a framer, not a redirector. Then I went over to the mafiascum wiki and learned I was wrong :) So no, there's not going to be a bus driver (which switches two targets) and a redirector (switches who someone targets). However, assuming tammo meant a framer (which is what I assumed he meant, and made sense in the context of him trying to explain why he's in trouble), if the scum had a framer costume, I'm 100% sure they would have targeted tammo last night since the investigators were certain to check him out)

Hey, I want you to vote shadows like me. There's NO WAY anyone is going to accuse you and tamo of being scum buddies if he flips scum. But a few votes could change the outcome. Sure, it's 10-3-4 right now (tamo-lind-shadows), but I've seen bigger lynch changes. If you're really interested in saving tamo now, DO IT. And frankly, I think you're town and the vigorous arguing between you to is also making me lean town on him. It's not 100% or anything, but seems like every time two people get in a "fight" in a mafia game, it turns out to be 2 townies fighting. That's what makes it so vigorous, both are nitpicking little details trying to build their case and not taking a step back to look at the bigger picture.

Here, I'll summarize. Tammo is maybe scum, maybe town. Has a bunch of votes on him both to test the cop and eliminate the costume, but seems like most of them actually think he's town. Lind, getting some votes too. And shadows, he maybe lied about the other cop and stuff. Lots of fighting, but save yourself the stress and just vote #TeamLynchShadows.

Quote of the game, right there folks.

Well, since you won't do it, here's my current count. Tammo: 7 votes Lind: 4 votes Shadows: 4 votes In case anyone cares, two people unvoted shadows and 3 people unvoted tammo at various times.

I'm going to Vote: Shadows (shadows) because frankly, I believe Tammo's logic and think that A. tammo is town B. something hinky (and that's hinky, not hinckley) went on with shadow's activities last night and C. if tammo is town, then shadow's telling lies about the "other cop" makes sense and therefore shadows makes sense as scum

I'll concur with this, but with the problem that if no one comes forward, we're still stuck (since if tammo is telling the truth, the bus driver / framer would be scum themselves) And so we're hoping that if there IS a framer-type costume, that the scum didn't take it both days. I'll definitely agree that if the scum had a framer night 1, they'd have put it on tammo. No doubt in my mind - he was by FAR the logical choice. Since he was certain to be investigated, he would certainly have been the frame target as well. And especially since Brick announced the investigation result first thing today, the scum would have wanted to grab the framer again for exactly this reason. If someone says "hey, I've got the framer today" and tammo flips town, then we've still caught a scum since we'd lynch whoever had that costume day 1. Heck, they'd probably want to grab it again tomorrow as well, unless tamo is scum and there's no more need. I'm just seeing too many possibilities (in a game this complex) for tamo to be town. And I still can't get past the logic that his revealing the vig was a purely townie move. So I guess I'll have to do some re-reading and pick someone else to vote for. Not that it's likely to make a difference, but I don't think testing the cop is enough reason to lynch someone who's about 90% sure to be town in my eyes.

Ok, finally read through all the fighting. I'm certain that the scum are having a blast watching town fight like this (even if there's 1 or more scum involved, it's still keeping everyone focused on one point). Tamo - the game is a game of both. You and brick are BOTH ignoring things. Yes, lynches can be used to verify things and help us catch scum later. You can't expect them to necessarily get caught right away. And so lynching you could verify a cop (it'd guide us to whether the hat we have is sane or insane, although you are correct that it could also be paranoid). And brick, you're ignoring tamo's very valid point here that he openly shared the vig action. I just can't see any reason he'd have done that as scum. I'm sure he got hit with a TON of night actions last night - watchers, trackers, cops, whatever abilities people had. And so as a scum, there's NO WAY he'd invite that scrutiny. So on that basis, I have to think tamo is town. And so the only reason to lynch is to test the cop, which is something we need to do eventually. On the other hand, I'm bouncing back and forth on fhomess. In his defense, there were only 3 hats left when he took the vig, and one of those 3 was his from day 1, so he really only had 2 choices. We put him in a crappy spot, since we talked yesterday about selecting someone to take the vig hat but then never did. And if he was scum, he'd have stayed away from it to keep the heat off. It's too early in the game for them to risk a scum just to kill a single extra townie. The numbers aren't in their favor on that yet. So I'm leaning town on him too, but I sorta wanna lynch him to get rid of the vig hat. It's just such a risk when the scum can take it any time OR redirect/steal it. I know it's been suggested to "control" the vig tonight, but how? The best I can think of is for the group to vote on a vig target. Then if that person isn't one of the dead, we know the scum used a block/redirect OR fhomess is scum. Either way, it'd be info for tomorrow. Argh. I just can't bring myself yet to vote tamo, since I think he's town and I just can't knowingly lynch a townie.

Oh crap, not asterisks again... ******************************. There. That's enough of that. To play devils' advocate here, I thought we'd talked about tammo taking the thief costume, since he was "almost confirmed town" since he revealed the vig. But you took it, so he couldn't.

Hm, does that mean you're scum and know what the remaining costumes are and don't want them? Wait, that's a bad theory, since I had Joker's Hair yesterday so I'd probably be scum too!

see, again I get beaten. and I'm not a slow typist! lady K - that one was taken too :)

Lady K - lego spy already took that costume.

dang, tammo jumped in with my walter question. Stuff flies too fast to keep up with typing!

Walter - did you steal tammo's vig kill last night? If so, that'd explain why he claims to have targeted zephyr and failed and there's 3 killers hitting 2 people shown (still doesn't mean he's not scum, but it might mean he is at least telling the truth). If not, that's another nail in his coffin.

Well, I'll give him that there is a decent chance of an insane cop with this many costumes bouncing around. Still, lynch! Second, if he IS scum then there's decent chance that shadows is too since shadows had the Egon Pack yesterday.

1. Iron Patriot's Helmet mostlytechnic 2. Flash's Lightning Cowl Brickelodeon 3. The Lone Ranger's White Hat 4. Captain Jack's Crow 5. Egon's Proton Pack Tamamono 6. Mr. Freeze's Coolant 7. Magneto's Super Awesome Helmet 8. Joker's Silly Green Hair 9. Indy Jone's Fedora

Cool! Now I wanna see you make those stems in bricks and have the flowers stay up :)

Has anyone ever known a mod here to do things in the game NOT by random selection? In other words, I'd expect the abilities and costumes to have been paired up randomly. But looking at the 3 that we know, we have War Machine's helmet as a vig and the Flash as a thief. Those both sorta make sense - war machine and killing is obvious, and the flash can run fast enough to be a great thief. Both a bit of a stretch, but it's plausible. And then superman comes in and claims bulletproof. That one is completely obvious. And so I'm not buying it. I think the first two being sort of related is chance and stickfig is lying to us in his claim and thought he could come up with a logical lie. I'm not going to reveal my ability, but I'll just say that I do not see a link between the character and the ability. I don't know why he'd lie about it - perhaps it's really an ability the scum WANT a townie to take tomorrow? some penalty or something? - but I'm struggling to see it as true.

No, the thief is stealing the following night's usage, not the past night. I'm going to Vote: Superman (Stickfig) I'm not getting a good townie vibe from his comments during the day, I was already somewhat scum-reading him, and so I'm afraid his revealing the bulletproof might just be a desperate ploy to save himself after seeing the reaction to the vig and thief reveals. A THIRD really good, powerful costume being exposed already seems too much. I'd actually have been less likely to vote for him if he'd claimed his was something weird or lame, like a "mute another player for 12 hours" or something.

1. I REALLY like brick's plan to "pass the costume down" - tomorrow, whoever is cleared by the investigator takes the vig. Tamo takes the thief. And then day 3, the new investigated person takes vig, tomorrow's vig takes the thief, and so on. And if we learn other super-important costumes, they pass down too. A plan like this makes it simple to know who's doing what each day. 2. Seems like a lot of today's votes are based on inactivity. I'm wary of that, because it seems like in past games, inactivity has been almost a 100% town-read. Basically, the REALLY inactive people are lazy town. The sorta-inactive people are often scum. 3. I'm not voting yet - there's still plenty of time in the day - but I am sorta leaning stickfig so far. He fits into that sorta-inactive space based on post count, and it's been fluffy as opposed to really helpful (and I just saw brick's latest post appear while I was writing this - seems like he and I think alike)

Well, since you said (I assume you were paraphrasing your costume PM) that IF the costume you steal has a night ability... so that would mean there's stuff either with no ability or day ability. You're right, it's possible there's no other day abilities and there's just night or nothing, but it's also possible there's other day abilities we need to use this to boost. Or I'm misunderstanding it and pelly will have to step in and clarify :)

Wow. Jumping the gun walter, or are you going to be away? There's still 3/4 of the votes to be placed, so I don't think it was time yet to reveal your ability. However, it's done. SO... Now the debate will start about what costumes are the most valuable and have to be "reserved" for confirmed townies. Vig is obvious. A kill is the most powerful ability. But as walter pointed out, thief is pretty powerful too since the scum could use it to steal the vig ability. Also, if I'm reading it right, the thief ability would let a day ability be used twice. The original owner could use it during the day, and then the thief use it again during the night. That might be a VERY powerful ability, depending on what day abilities are out there! (for example, if the investigator was a day ability, getting to investigate TWO people per day/night cycle would be huge for scumhunting AND building the town block) So much so that if the thief ability is still here tomorrow AND we know a townie has it, people with really useful day abilities should tell the thief so their ability can be reused at night. Odds are we won't have multiple confirmed townies tomorrow, so the vig ability goes first and we might have to wait till day 3 for the thief ability to be used like this.