mccoyed

Great intro, Andrew. Forgot to post this latest, actually in Varlyrio, build for me:

Previously... Illyrian Docks, Varlyrio The docks of Illyrian are a busy place with barges, canal boats, and small watercraft coming and going constantly and at all hours. Larger ships dock further out in the bay, ferrying passengers to the city. Sometimes a passenger who wants to avoid attention might head to the busiest parts of the port quarter, where all the hustle and bustle can keep them from being noticed. Even in the rougher areas, the streets are paved with cobblestone and guards make an appearance even if they aren't planning on looking at anything too carefully. Recently statues of Baiamontes (which were erected in Varlyrio's darker recent history) have been replaced with other public artwork, including statues of Sana Argenta of the Sword and Cup. Sometimes statues of her hold a cup as well as a sword, depending on the sculptor*. Minotaurs aren't a common sight in the more urbane streets of Illyrian, but common enough on the docks where their great strength is well compensated by those needing laborers or guards. Dock workers have a reputation for taking frequent breaks and being quick to avert disaster. It may not look it, but that crane hook weighs a lot! Being Illyrian, even the most rundown waterfront buildings have balconies that soar over the busy streets. It is common for shipping offices to be fronts for smuggling operations, piracy, and worse. Many of the oldest and poorest families in Eastern Varlyrio own buildings up and down the waterfront, either using them for their own schemes and "business" ventures... ...or renting them out to locals, especially rich ones, looking to take in the local color. The warehouse is even busier than the streets, with cargo coming in and going out in a never-ending tide. Goods come in from everywhere in Historica, and even some places beyond... ...and to be honest, a lot of it is moved without a record (if you know what I mean). Including people like Lady Tisha of Delmitra and her bodyguard, Arrea of Bandari. Fel D'Gatto has been arguing with them for days since discovering them renting out a modest berth on her ship home... "C'mon Fel, it'll be fun!" "Don't you have anything to say about this, Arrea?" "Not really, no." "I said I would help you and that's what we're here to do!" "But you're a child. I don't know if I can be responsible for a child in Illyrian. I can barely wrap my head around it." "What are you talking about, Fel? There's a kid over there playing with a butterfly." "No there is not." "...there is, actually." "Sigh..." "Don't worry about it. Arrea can protect me!" "Where we're going, I don't know if that's going to be enough." "Hey, you said 'we're'. That means I'm going! Wait, where are we going?" "Lady Tisha, have you ever heard of the 'Sunken City'?" "Let me think... Sunken City... not the 'Sinking City', that's in Nocturnus... Help me out here, Arrea." "There's a 'Forgotten City' in Mwamba." "There's a 'Forgotten City' every dang place." "Well it must be here in Varlyrio! Sounds exciting." "That's one way to put it." "Oooooh is it scary?" "..." "..." "..." "Hee. I bet it's so scary." "This is already going well." Builder's Notes and Bonus Pics:

Haha. Good to know!

This is a great miniature. Don't know if I've even seen a better castle micro build, especially at this scale!

No worries. I get why you went borderless. Those technique pieces in the base should have told me that you're doing a layout! D'oh!

I agree with Narbilu. This clarification is sensible, along the lines of what I've picked up so far, and would be SUPER useful for new members. Lookin' good!

Challenge accepted.

Honestly, EB doesn't enforce that guideline. A large number of people use Biblical quotes in their signatures, which should fall under that umbrella. Just saying. Some of this stuff overlaps into what "good world-building" looks like, too, and I think your questions/points are particularly helpful in getting people to think through their creations more generally. Even beyond the question of religious faiths in Historica.

Ah, I see. Fair enough, but he did clarify in a post above these ones. Anyways we all have our own opinions about this and it's all good, just depends on what Narbilu decides makes sense for him.

Good points. Ah, gotchya. I think your position is reasonable. I'm fine with the Aslanic temples too because I think it satisfies the needs of differentiating the fiction. No one is talking about banning symbols, calm down. It's just about the logic, if you like, of including familiar religious symbols in a fictional fantasy universe. Nothing you're saying changes that but you're potentially putting words in everyone's mouths which I don't think is what you want? That said, there's an interesting point to make with the "demonic shirt" in that there are symbols of all kinds that we can disagree on (and do) and then there's symbols that change meaning over time. None of that changes the fact that you wouldn't find anyone who didn't associate the cross with Christianity excluding really outside cases like amnesia, cultural isolation, etc. There's a distinction here you're glossing over to make a pretty obstinate point. Ultimately, these conversations are interesting because here we are, coming to a consensus (or trying to) about what these symbols should mean in the context of GoH or any fantasy game. I will argue that most fantasy worlds don't include obvious religious symbols from the real world. Catch-all worlds like D&D settings are a different story. You don't see Christian symbols and imagery in the worlds of major fantasy works including Tolkien. This is for the integrity of the world-building, which most people call "immersion". At the end of the day, though, because we aren't talking about banning or imposing rules on people (seriously, where did you even get that idea :P), this is all going to come down to opinions and what people want to do with their own lore. If someone agrees with Henjin, Stad, and I, they may create a "fantasy religion". If not, they might transplant real-world religious symbols just like we do with architecture, weaponry, etc. To me, that's fine just not my personal preference. The whole reason I inquired was because I suspect this issue might have been decided. I'm getting the impression that GoH has no firm policy and it's just up to the individual builders to do what they want... which is fine. I guess I skew toward a communal approach, though, and wanted to make sure that anything I create for Varlyrio has a certain degree of approval since it's a new Guild and all.

Well, this is a common argument that people make about all kinds of things and it has a pretty big flaw. That is, the idea that symbols, words, etc have "no meaning than that which you yourself give it". Isn't it more accurate to say that symbols have a "common" meaning that is basically agreed upon by people? If we take words as an example, I could be writing in word salad right now and I would not be communicating with you even though I could defend it by saying something similar to what you're saying here. Symbols connect to this because they are part of communication: we use symbols to communicate various meanings. Those meanings aren't thrust into our brains fully-formed... we acquire them by communicating with others directly (ex. talking) or indirectly (ex. seeing cultural artifacts like signs, media, etc). So there's a context that contributes to meaning and while we can impose limits on real-world contexts, especially in fiction, we can't really ever escape them. Nor should we, because they are how we construct a world we can agree has certain qualities or is even there at all. :P In other words, you're right about other meanings a cross could have if we all agreed on it... which is maybe why Henjin and others want to talk about this now?

@Henjin_Quilones Don't apologize for the length! I'm a teacher too and find this stuff fascinating (all religions and mythologies really... though I'm not a Christian). I'm going to selectively quote some stuff I want to comment on: For what it's worth, the Aslanic religion is already a fantasy nod to Christianity (C.S. Lewis's books are fairly direct Christian allegories). I think in the earlier days this must have been a nod from Christian GoHers and it's a fairly good one given that Narnia is a fantasy series and GoH is a fantasy world. :P I agree. I think "shrine" can also work well as a general term for "place of worship". Shrines usually denote a smaller, more localized special area though. I think "Sana" works as a compromise in terms. Deifying "real people" post-mortem, let alone living people, is/was a common human practice. That said, I don't mind changing "Church of Sana Argenta" to "Temple of Sana Argenta" or something like that. Maybe I'll do a build to fully introduce this "new" (more like rediscovered) faith and its lore to GoH. I hope the lore I offered was sufficient to answer to some of the questions you're raising, which are all good world-building questions. I've been playing RPGs, D&D and reading fantasy almost my whole life and world-building is a big part of the fun in all that so I'm always happy to think about and create more detail.

Hilariously, the very next thread I opened after posting that was your St. Joseph church! I had no idea we had such similar ideas. :P

Love that parts use with the hair but agree that a different color would add contrast.

Great tower. Wish I had more of those "dark flesh" bricks myself!

I agree about this stuff but it also is worth mentioning that there are many Christians AFOLs on GoH and that there's probably an overlap with the similarly many historical architecture enthusiasts who are emulating techniques that appear in real examples. While I think it strains the lore to use "Saint" (I pitched a deity using the made-up "Sana" as a stand-in for Saint before I saw this thread) and Christian imagery, I just wanted to bring up why I think it's common at least in GoH to add this stuff. I don't know if there's been a universal GoH discussion about this stuff, but maybe back in the early Book 1 days?

Cool story with these characters and I especially appreciate the exotic armor ideas. Not enough high fantasy in GoH sometimes. :P

Thanks Garmadon. I find some of the pretty canonical castle building techniques lost on me. I see a lot of similar techniques in builds and have no idea how the builder does it haha.

So fellow Varlyrians... I have been thinking about religion in Varlyrio and the idea of introducing a new religion to Historica that is popular in Varlyrio. What is the policy on that for GoH/Book 3? Can I just go ahead and the normal rule of "if people like it, it'll catch on" will apply? Happy to discuss this with our Guild leaders if necessary. I just want to make sure I'm operating within parameters if I go adding this stuff to builds. Here's the pitch, though. Please tell me what you think about:

This is an admirable first build. I think having a bit of a base frame around the edges would help increase the "production value" of the build without costing you too much in additional pieces. There are some nice smaller details here: the walking stick, the extra pieces on the tree trunks to give them some texture, the use of overlapping and non-uniform plates to break up the stud pattern. Good start. @Henjin_Quilones as someone who struggles with trees, can you point me at some good ones hopefully with some tips on how to make 'em?

Really like the characterization of DG here and there's some solid detail in the writing which really sells it. The writing is my favorite part because it is a great representation of the best kind of RBG writing (IMO): toeing the line between too broad and too obscurely high fantasy.

Been admiring this on Flickr for a while now. This is one of the principle "Kali" style builds for me and one I'll always look at for inspiration whenever I try that style in the future.

Thanks. I'm working hard on the next build! Thanks Grover! LittleJohn and Soccerkid's builds are a big inspiration to me and I've noticed pastel colors pop up in a few of their builds so I'm sure that's where I got the idea. I think there's definitely an "Arabian" feel to the architecture but I definitely wanted to evoke a more North American style badland/desert. If only because we see a lot of the wavy dunes and palm tree oases in Kali.

I really dig the roof, Grover. Gives me a lot of ideas since I have A TON of technic pins in tan, gray, blue, and black. Just buckets of them. Trying to use them for roofing is just such a great idea, especially for my Yureishima builds!

Oh look, the trash talk is back.