andythenorth

How many XL motors can simultaneously be driven from one proportional output? How many PF (AA) battery boxes can be connected at once? (Is there any benefit to more batteries with large numbers of motors?)

Combining two motors in a gear train should be ok I reckon. However it gets interesting if the connection to one is interrupted causing it to stall. This will put a greater load on the other motor, I think the PF receiver would cut out before this causes damage though. It gets really interesting if the connection to one is reversed. I have unintentionally connected two XL motors to the same gear train, with rotation in opposite directions. This causes you to own fewer gears, but more small pieces of gear. Worst case? Broken motor(s), broken gears. Mostly a question of what you can afford to break

/me is hoping this v2 receiver can drive 4 xl motors (2 per output would be acceptable), but is guessing that's not the case An alternative would be a manual proportional switch (0-7 +ve / -ve). One or more of these could be controlled in parallel by the servo motor, providing switching on-board the vehicle for n large motors This would allow an R/C vehicle to utilise n large motors, whilst controlled by one receiver. (The back story here is a large truck with 4 XL motors, for which I want proportional speed control, not bang-bang; I don't want one set of axles to move and the other drag, that could have unfortunate consequences. Maybe I get an Arduino board ) Sorry for off topic

So the conclusion is that they should go back to the behaviour that got them into a pickle around that time? - insane number of SKUs - themes nobody understands - significant loss of touch with what gets parents buying (expensive) Lego for their kids I like the crossover ideas. Meanwhile, I don't find this argument convincing: "TLG don't sell many trains, therefore they should produce a lot more trains". Also something puzzles me: it's a fricking construction toy no? So why do you guys feel so beholden to TLG to offer certain sets? Just build what you want?

To generate these extra PF sales, which other product lines would you have TLG drop? Or do you consider that there's a large reserve of untapped spending that TLG could capture?

I would place money on TLG dropping trains entirely after the current sets are out of production. Broadly, kids of the age that City is aimed at have zero interest in trains. Small children love Thomas, but once children reach school age, trains can be seen as an insanely nerdy and deeply socially unacceptable interest. AFOLs who like trains appear in two types: (1) focussed on realism, build their own trains (2) people who whine about why TLG is screwing up trains, and why they're not going to buy any. I would welcome TLG dropping trains, it would catch us a break from the whining AFOLs.

From the LPE video: "all this makes the Unimog, otherwise an excellent model, not fun to play with. If you own one, this is not news to you" Out of the box the mog is not very playable, which is a shame. It fails the toddler test, and also the casual visitor "what's that thing on the shelf do?" test. Video inspires me to mod mine. Which is good, modding is fun :)

Because....? Assertion, no explanation, no evidence = poor argument.

Heavy Equipment Forums has lots of great stuff on logging equipment http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/forumdisplay.php?91-Forestry-Equipment

No There have been lots of truck cranes (separate driving / crane cabs). The cranes I have in mind only have one cab. They also have a short chassis, which requires a short, compact, multi-stage boom. It would be an interesting model, and early-teenage boys in Germany might like it (this is allegedly the main market for Technic). http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=demag+city+crane&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=RYHCT6WyI4nd8gOh_KHtCg&biw=1143&bih=677&sei=SIHCT9_IMMfY8APxp6iqDA

(I searched to check if this is a duplicate thread, if I missed an existing thread about this please merge). With no evidence at all, I make the guess that 2013 will bring us an updated equivalent of the Mobile Crane from 1978 http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=855-1 I don't think this would be the flagship, I think it would fill the second slot in the range, and would be motorised for a number of functions, but not full RC. It would be either a 2 axle rough terrain crane (Grove, Terex etc), or a 3 axle city crane (Demag, Liebherr etc). It wouldn't be a huge model, it would be in scale with 8109 etc, and would use very compact, intricate mechanisms, whilst avoiding the excessive weight of larger models. What a silly guessing game

(OT)...the Extreme Cruiser (mentioned above as uninspiring) feels like the spiritual successor to the red Dune Buggy from the 80s (also not a very inspiring set, but fun to play with) http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=8845-1

YMMV, but I never look at the parts in a set when choosing to buy it. For me, Bricklink eliminates the idea of buying sets for parts I can imagine some people find Bricklink orders a hassle; it is quite time consuming to source parts efficiently using BL

FWIW, and this will probably get me a kicking, I think the Mog has almost no play value. It's technically very impressive, but it's: - too big, too heavy, the steering is poor - the crane is too slow, too weak - the snowplough is too heavy and leaves the front end unbalanced - the cab is structurally weak, and the U400 mog is an ugly thing anyway Others will rabidly disagree with this assessment. This toy fails the toddler test though. My two year old ignores it completely, and will favour the 8070 and 8109 sets (he ignores the Extreme Cruiser completely too). And no, I don't leave him unsupervised with technic parts If you want a big set, 8043 is an excellent toy as well as being technically interesting, and stuffed full of PF and other parts. It also has that great B model...

(Prefaced somewhat unnecessarily with 'in my opinion') The Backhoe Loader (8069) is the most playable, best value set in the current range. It has lots of functions, and is a nice size. It's a quick fun build too. I was surprised by how much I liked the Supercar (8070). I prefer trucks/heavy equipment to cars, but this is a fun toy with nice functions. Similar comment applies to Extreme Cruiser (8081); it's a fun toy. Limited on functions though. Flatbed Truck (8109) has limited functions, but they're the most pleasing in the way they work. It looks good too, and playing with it won't eat through the batteries too quickly. The Excavator (8043) and the Mog (8110) offer unprecedented levels of function and complexity. They're impressive, but not that much fun to play with, and the builds can become a chore. However the B-model for 8043 is a track loader, and is absolutely awesome for playability. The two mini cranes (8067 and 9391) are fun, cheap, quick to build, and offer lots of functions in a tiny model. I haven't been disappointed with any of the sets in the current range: the Quad (9392) Tow Truck (9390), Off-Roader (8066), Container Truck (8065), Rescue Helicopter (8068) and Bucket Truck (8071) are all fun, but none of them are as much fun as the sets recommended above

Nice I really like 8070, I'm not usually a big car fan, but it's an awesome set.

And there, for me lies the heart of the question - and why I started the thread. My guess is that without christmas and birthday sales - for kids, but the sale is to a parent - trains simply aren't viable for TLG. No parents buying = no TLG trains. I can't prove it with numbers but I think it's a reasonable guess. No trains limits the sources of MOC parts to Bricklink, eBay and/or Enlighten trains (which look cheap and nasty). This is bad for AFOLs and bad for kids who want to MOC. So what would cause you to buy the red cargo train? (I can confirm that the red cargo train was a christmas hit for my boy, especially combined with the harbour set)

+1 $100 is unworkable, it would be a crippled set that wouldn't appeal to kids or parents. £100 sterling converts out as $160 US or $156 AUD (I appreciate everything in Oz has inflated prices, so you'd be paying more like $220 AUD at a guess). £100 was my suggested average price point across a range of 3-4 sets available at any one time. This gives room for small / middling / big sets. £100 seems a fair price to me - as a parent. @MrBenn - I've seen that thread, it's interesting. General comment: almost everyone posting in this thread - unsurprisingly - appears to be an AFOL without kids, I guess that's a general theme on Eurobricks, but it does represent a very skewed view. My guess is that most AFOLs are also active in online Lego communities; non-AFOL parents will rarely if ever participate in these communities. I started the thread because I'd like to see TLG keep designing and retailing a strong line of child-oriented train sets, as toys. I think there's something worthwhile in that.

@Steinkopf totally agree on sitting down and playing with the kids. I'm an AFOL-with-kids, but also an AFOL-with-bricklink-account, so I've sat down and built plenty of MOC trains with the kids...several of them directly inspired by yours on Flickr (Some of mine are here http://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/ ) But I like sets too, especially at Christmas / birthdays. For a child, the 'big box' moment is exciting. And I'm not ashamed to say, I enjoy buying things, even if it's consumerist. Also, some days, especially with kids, it's just nice to have instructions to follow, it's more like knitting from a pattern than original creativity, but some days that's just easier For what it's worth, I can see why AFOLs hope to be served by Lego, but ultimately train AFOLs are a small and demanding bunch, and many of them might be better served by a bricklink account and building their own MOCs. There are no shortage of awesome, highly-detailed MOCS for inspiration.

[shrug] The Car Chassis (8860) had 2 or so gears http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=8860-1 I spent too long making it have 3 gears, reverse etc. It was probably fun at the time. Ultimately, it just makes the pistons go faster or slower. I've built a PF truck with 2 gears, switch by PF. http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=307640 I'm not sure it was worth the effort. I did it when only bang-bang remotes were available; the proportional remotes reduce the need for gears. Yeah, two speeds gives more torque in low range, but that tends to chew through gears. As an AFOL-building-for-2-kids I don't miss gearboxes. Maybe I learnt some stuff from them when I was a kid, not 100% convinced though

New horses + Western theme + train robbery set = win Could be a simple steam train, basically the Toy Story train, adapted for 'not Toy Story'

Backstory - I'm posting this because it seems plausible TLG read these forums, and it's as good a way as any to provide feedback. If they don't...[shrug]. I'm an 'AFOL with kids'. I like Lego, but when I buy trains, it's to build and play with my kids. I'm not crafting my own train layout, I don't care about realism or other things that interest some train AFOLs. My main interest is having toys my kids will love. So currently there are 3 full train sets, plus Maersk, Harry Potter and Toy Story which lack track etc. The red cargo train is discounted in the UK right now, I thought about buying another, but I don't want two of them in the house. Same thing happened with the yellow train - I thought I'd buy a couple for the kids, but one seemed to be enough. I also bought one Maersk, and one Emerald Night (which is an AFOL dream, but rubbish for kids, my son likes the look of it but it breaks far too often, too easily). I did buy 3 of the passenger train. It's a relatively boring set compared to the cargo trains, but it looks nice, it's cheaper, and a longer passenger train is better. When I saw the red train discounted, I didn't think 'buy', I thought 'it would be nice to have a different, new train set to buy'. I know that trains are not a big seller for TLG, and that designing and carrying lots of train SKUs is unlikely. Still, I would happily buy around 5 train sets per year at an average £100 price point, if they were new set designs. - passenger trains I'd always buy at least 2, to get a longer train - cargo trains, I'd probably buy one - 'something else' would be interesting, maybe a set with a small train, but one awesome accessory. - AFOLs would grumble, but I would buy a 'fire train', or a forest-themed 'train robbery' set, because my kids would like it. Trains are expensive toys, but can justify buying 2 at Christmas, 1 for each kid's birthday, and 1 'just because'. One final thing to say - buying behaviour: - the cargo trains have 'better' accessories, but too much makes it a harder buy. If I'm thinking "don't like the truck much", less likely to buy. Too many cranes, forklifts, trucks, loaders etc pushes the price up too, price point needs to be around £100 for an easy buy. - by contrast the passenger train is an easy buy because there are few accessories. I don't really care if I don't like the platforms, they're just a small number of parts. - I'd buy 2 of the same set to get a properly good alternative model. I do this with Technic sets. I guess the piece mix in trains makes it hard to achieve good alternatives (and TLG only seem to do alternatives with Technic). - when buying for Christmas and birthdays, I want a complete set, in one box, delivered. The box is likely to be opened away from home, with grandparents, and I want everything in it except batteries. Despite that we have billions of curved tracks in cupboards at home, the set needs to be playable out of the box. This would be wasteful for a set like Maersk, which is aimed at AFOLs, but is essential for sets aimed at kids.

Use one of the other diffs? http://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?q=differential

I noticed that my toddler loves playing with the mail box and letters in the Forest Police Station. When I was a kid I loved the post office and post truck. Why? Don't know, they were just neat and playable I guess. http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=6362-1 http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=6651-1 Would be nice if 2013 brought a post office line with 2 to 4 sets: - post office (forest post office? ) - mail truck - mail plane - mini-set of postman on bike, with corner postbox and lamp-post or such

+1 to some ships PF hovercraft would be awesome, but would need some very specialist parts