[MOC REVIEW] Grove GMK6400 Mobile Crane

[afol1969]

The full suspension version you can still find here: http://www.bricksafe.com/files/afol1969/Instructions/GMK6400_1.2.pdf

I'ts an updated version, I'd to correct an error, and I've added more annotations.

The RC Unit with 4 channels you can download here: http://www.bricksafe.com/files/afol1969/Instructions/RC_Unit.pdf

I've build both versions, so I can compare them.

IMHO, I really recommand you the MK3 version without suspensions with Firgelli actuators on the superstructure.

At first, the drive/steering properties are much better, also on carpets. The outriggers drive out with less speed, and the feet are stronger. The fake engine looks very natural with the high-speed cylinder driving. The Firgelli actuators look much better and can lift the boom in a higher angle. Two standard Firgelli's are enough to lift the boom, (when batteries in the BB are fully loaded)

There is no need to use an extra motor for the boom lifting, so that gives the possibility to build a more stable and stiffer superstructure.

So the MK3 version is for me the preferred and final model, I'm really happy with it.

Photos will follow soon.

So now, who starts to build a bigger version with 8 axles and Unimog tyres?

Greetings

Alex

Edited April 30, 2015 by afol1969

[maverick14]

Hi Alex,

Thank you for the quick and detailed answer. I really appreciate the extra details you have put in. So, if I understood correctly the version without suspension drives and steers better!

Now for the 1000$ question, could you share with us a parts list for the GMK6400 - the "non suspension / with Firgelli actuators" version. I have seen the parts list in the PDF file but I was wondering if you have a proper BrickStock version that I can import into Rebrikable as a Private MOC. It would help tremendously with planning.

Two more questions on the Firgelli actuators topic - did you got the connecting wires from Firgelli or you built your own based on their instructions? Currently the wires seem to be out of stock. Second, have you got the "torque optimized" version of gearing for the actuators or the vanilla one? Is the "torque optimized" version mandatory for this MOC?

I would also appreciate more feedback from the rest of the community that has built this amazing MOC!

cheers,

Alex C

[afol1969]

Hi Alex C,

I'm very sorry, I don't have any brickstore or else part lists, I've only them created from the LDRAW file. Most people ask me for bsx part lists, but myself I don't use bsx files. I count the amount of parts from my stock, and I make notes which parts I need to buy. To build MOC's I often use alternate parts in different colors if possible, so the part lists always change.

If wanted, I can put the model onto Rebrickable, but it will be a problem with the Non-Lego parts (Firgelli actuators and wires)

For the instructions, I used the DAT file from Philo, the wires I've created myself. Serveral parts I've created you can download here: http://www.bricksafe... flexible Parts

I've used the standard actuators without down-gearing, two of them have just enough force to lift the boom. I was inspirated from efferman's boom to use additional beams to optimize the leverage, and to get an higher angle (~80 degrees)

The actuators you can get from an online-shop in France: http://www.robotshop...-100mm-ev3.html, so that you don't need to pay high shipping tax.

The NXT-to-PF wires you find in this shop too: http://www.robotshop...o-pf-cable.html

But the down-geared actuator you only can get from Canada.

Hope I could answer all your questions

Greetings

Alex

Edited April 27, 2015 by afol1969

[kweeklust93]

hoi alex

will you send me your email adres i will ask you many thinks about the gmk6400

greats

marc

amsterdam

holland

marccsa65@hotmail.com

[kweeklust93]

can you show an photo from the zenders and recevers i dont now the channels for the carrier and the craene

i build the crane but i can not drive etc etc the crane

greats mark

ps thanks for thise free and fanstastic legowork

[maverick14]

Hi Alex,

First, a big "Thanks!" for taking the time to reply!

Indeed, most of my questions have been answered. The link for the NXT-to-PF wires is really useful as it will save me some headache.

If you could load the the model on Rebrikable it would really help! My parts stock is limited as I am slowly getting back into Lego and having a proper parts list to work with helps as I need to control the costs for now (this is one expensive MOC!). No worries about the non-standard Lego parts - I know how to clean a bsx file if unknown elements are found during import.

Thanks

Alex C.

[afol1969]

Here the latest photo with full extended boom:

Greetings

Alex

PS: @Marc: You've PM.

[kisper]

^^Beautiful !

[maverick14]

Love it!

Just need to put together an usable parts list

[maverick14]

Alex,

For the MK3 non-suspension with Firgelli actuators which mpd file(s) should I use as reference? The GMK6400.mpd from your bricksafe repository I think is the one with suspensions and regular LAs. I found a reference on page 18, I guess, regarding a file called GMK6400-Carrier-MK3.mpd but the link is dead.

After going over the whole thing again I am now set on the MK3 non-suspension carrier with the Firgelli actuators and 5 unit boom.

Thank you for all your help and support!

Alex C

Edited April 30, 2015 by maverick14

[afol1969]

Alex,

For the MK3 non-suspension with Firgelli actuators which mpd file(s) should I use as reference?

After going over the whole thing again I am now set on the MK3 non-suspension carrier with the Firgelli actuators and 5 unit boom.

Thank you for all your help and support!

Alex C

I'm still on work to complete the instructions for the MK3 Version. But a draft you can download here: http://www.bricksafe.com/files/afol1969/Instructions/GMK6400-MK3%20(1).pdf. Part lists and step order are ready for building, but I still have to add lots of annotations, for ex. how to connect the PF parts. Hope I'll finish it next week to upload the final instructions.

Greetings

Alex

[maverick14]

Hi Alex,

I just wanted to check with you if the GMK6400-MK3 (1).pdf file from your Bricksafe has been updated lately or it still the older version from about 3 weeks ago.

I am slowly building up the parts supply as this build is more of a marathon at this point.

Cheers,

Alex C

[afol1969]

Hi Alex C,

The instructions are soon ready, definitively I can upload them next week. Notes and photos are made, just creating a page with the superstructure mechanical/electrical scheme.

I'm sorry that it took long time, but I am a perfectionist to create instructions, I make controls again and again, and I want to make them easy understandable that it shouldn't appear building problems.

Greetings

Alex

[maverick14]

Hi,

I fully agree with your stance Alex!

If I am to do something, I would rather do it as good as possible than rush though it. Especially if it is for somebody else's consumption! I guess most of us here are a bit of a perfectionist so this approach can only help.

Just secured my metal hook today and I am looking to get the Firgellis and the cables next. At this point, the thing that would be the most helpful is a proper MK3 parts list in BSX format or something similar.

Patience is key!

cheers

Alex C

[ferindel]

Hi everyone,

First of all, congratulations to all the people who have been giving so much time and energy to get such a delightful improved version of the 42009 mobile crane. As a Lego Technic lover, this MOC is one of the most beautiful I have seen; as a teacher having some good background in both mechanical and automation engineering, the power transmission is lovely, and would represent quite a good example for students.

Regarding this current project, I am obviously willing to build this modified version. However, I have a few questions. Sorry if these questions look dumb (as a teacher, I’m used to saying that there is no dumb question, but well, other people may be thinking differently), but I’ve thoroughly read the 21 pages of this thread, and some things still aren’t clear:

• I already have the 42009 mobile crane. In many posts, I read that some of you were advising to get 2 42009 mobile cranes to get most of the parts needed to build the modified version, so that the few parts left can be ordered online separately. Is this really useful or not?
  
• I have understood that two versions of the carrier exist so far. One is the “original” one, on which each axle has its independent suspension; another one is the version with both the “normal” and crab steering implemented by gerger and proposed in post #292. I have downloaded the draft of the GMK6400-MK3 instructions, and am still waiting for Alex to finish his huge work on that. I would just like to know if the crab steering has been implemented in this version, or if the carrier only allows “normal” steering?
  
• Finally, I understood that there are 3 versions of the superstructure, based on three different types of actuators: the usual Lego actuators, the Firgelli actuators, and Efferman’s actuators. I also noticed that there are many versions of the counterweight, one of which looks particularly nice to me: the version proposed by Efferman in post #320. I would like to know whether some instructions are available for this version of the superstructure (with Efferman’s counterweight), or even for the whole mobile crane (carrier with crab steering + Efferman's counterweight)?
  

Sorry for these simple questions, but there are so many versions that I’m a bit lost :) Thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post and for your replies.

[afol1969]

Finally here the complete instructions for the MK3 Version:

http://bricksafe.com/files/afol1969/Instructions/Grove6400-MKIII_1.1.7z

Enjoy!

And to answer the questions from ferindel:

I don't have bought the 42009, all my parts are based on the 8421 mobile crane, and for all 42009 Moc's/modifications I bought the needed parts from bricklink, especially the yellow panels. Other yellow parts mostly I've got from the 8043,42006, 8275.....

But I think if you can get two 42009 for a good price, I think you'll have a big amount of the needed parts. But, as always, additional PF elements have their price (L-Motors, Servo-Motors)

The MK3 Version has the normal and crab steering which can be controlled by a manual switch. The counterweight from both versions (MK2 /MK3) is my own modification with an additional BB, filled with steel balls. I like the superstructure modification from efferman, but until now ther only exist an LFX instruction draft. I've converted the file into LDRAW, I've created the submodels too, but there are no instructions. And in future time I've not planned to make instructions, personally I think, after made the instructions of two version, I want to come to an end and invest my time in other instruction projects. The MK3 Version with crab steering and Firgelli actuators is my personal favorite construction.

But I'm sure it will also look great with efferman's superstructure. But I haven't his actuator, so I cannot try his superstructure version.

I hope I could answer you questions.

Greetings

Alex

Edited July 10, 2015 by afol1969

[ferindel]

Hi Alex,

Thank you for the complete instructions.

Regarding your answers:

• no problem for the 42009, I'll try to figure out by myself based on the part list,
  
• thank you for the explanation about the MK3 version, that's what I had understood,
  
• regarding Efferman's modification, I may have mistaken. Actually, I'm not interested in the superstructure itself, but rather in the counterweight that Efferman showed in one of his pictures. I'll try to figure that out.
  

Thank you for all your answers :)

ferindel

[maverick14]

Hi Alex,

just wanted to say "Thanks!" for posting the final instructions. The amount of work required to finalize them probably was probably quite sizeable.

Could you confirm please that the file GMK6400-Mk3_Firgelli.mpd from your Bricksafe is the one you used to generate the final version of the instructions from?

Kindest regards,

Alex C

[afol1969]

Could you confirm please that the file GMK6400-Mk3_Firgelli.mpd from your Bricksafe is the one you used to generate the final version of the instructions from?

Hi maverick,

Yes, it's the file I created the instructions from.

Download here: http://www.bricksafe.com/files/afol1969/Instructions/GMK6400-Mk3_Firgelli.mpd

Greetings

Alex

[ferindel]

Hi Alex,

I found my answer regarding Efferman's version. Actually, I was mistaking (probably because I was lost), as I thought that the superstructure of all the versions was more or less the same, and that the only differences relied on the type of actuator and on the counterweight. However, they are much more different than I though, and even if I prefer Efferman's superstructure (I'm sorry ), I don't really like his actuator. I was initially wondering whether it would be possible to use his counterweight with your superstructure, but it seems much more complex than I initially thought, and I think that it will be easier to use your version, as it matches the real grove quite well already, and as I trust you regarding the Firgelli actuators (even though I'll have to wait for a little while before ordering them, as they're out of NXT to PF cables right now). As a consequence, I'll use your final instructions for my grove.

I just have a last question (sorry for bothering you again): do you have the BSX file for this last version? I downloaded the BSX file of one of your previous versions, and I was beginning to update it based on the part list included in your instructions, but I suddenly thought that maybe I was wasting time if this file already exists.

Thanks a lot, and once again, congratulations for this wonderful work on the instructions.

ferindel

[gerger]

Hi Alex,

Thank you very much for the final instruction. I read the carrier part and It is very well made. The steps and order is much better than I built. I can only spot one minor error on page 57: the 4 green arrows should be pointing to the next four 3L pins. Other than that, it's perfect!

[Blakbird]

I originally started this review topic 21 pages ago, and at this point the model being discussed is no longer the model that was reviewed and there are quite a few variations out there. As an attempt to make order out of the chaos, I will try to summarize the different versions out there. This is much easier to do if we separate the carrier from the superstructure. As far as I know, there are only 2 versions of the carrier. The superstructure is a lot more complicated.

Carrier

• Version 1: by Gerger, full suspension on all axles, complete instructions available from afol1969 (this is the version in my review)
  
• Version 2: by Gerger, no suspension, improved motorization and steering, complete instructions available from afol1969
  

Superstructure

• Version 1: by Jurgen, boom by Christophe, draft instructions available from Blakbird (this is the version in my review)
  
• Version 2: by Jurgen, boom by Christophe, additional counterweight by afol1969, complete instructions available from afol1969, functionally identical to Version 1
  
• Version 3: by Jurgen, boom by Christophe, additional counterweight by afol1969, modified to use Firgelli actuators, complete instructions available from afol1969
  
• Version 4: by Efferman, boom by Christophe (but extended from 5 to 6 panels), uses much larger counterweight, Efferman's 3D printed actuator, and has a tilting cabin, no instructions available but LDraw file is available
  

For the carrier, I think the only person who has built both versions is Gerger and he prefers Version 2. I have built Version 1 but plan to convert mine to Version 2 at some point.

For the superstructure, I think no one has ever built all 4 versions. I would like to convert mine to Version 4, but I'm not sure anyone has built this one, even Efferman. I do have his actuator already which I'll be painting. Version 3 seems to be the fan favorite at the moment.

[bonox]

For the superstructure, I think no one has ever built all 4 versions. I would like to convert mine to Version 4, but I'm not sure anyone has built this one, even Efferman..

my pictures above are of #4 upper on #1 lower (including the full sized 100tonne counterweight - standard is about 30tonne), but without the actuator installed. The pictures were taken before the actuator arrived. I'll get it out of the box and take a picture or two with the actuator installed if you wish.

Personally, I think it looks the best, given that the original has only a single hydraulic luffing ram. Its scale size isn't too dissimmilar either.

For working performance if you want to actually lift stuff with it and show off, the lighter and smoother #3 is probably the pick. (Note that I haven't built it to compare, but am comparing based on JC's AC50 using the same actuator.

[afol1969]

Hi blakbird,

Thank you very much for the detailed information which brings now order the different versions. For the 4th version of the superstructure, maybe I'll build it in further time. But not know, I soon have to disassemble the crane because I need parts for my next project.

For the latest instructions, I'll publish an update at a later time, maybe somebody find errors which I've to correct.

@gerger: Yes, you're right, the arrows point to the wrong 4 long pins.

Greetings

Alex

[ferindel]

Hi Alex,

I just have a last question for you (sorry for bothering you again): do you have the BSX file (the part list) for your last MKIII version? I downloaded the BSX file of one of your previous versions, and I was beginning to update it based on the part list included in your instructions, but I suddenly thought that maybe I was wasting time if this file already exists.

Thank you :)

ferindel