Heroica Home Rules

[Jareth]

I bought Fortaan and the problem I encountered is that the game ends up being a race to the final boss. There's no incentive to slay other monsters or stop for loot. And isn't that what adventuring is all about?

To fix this each monster is worth points equal to their strength and every gold is worth one point. The game still ends when the objective for the map is completed but it's the person with the most point who wins not necessarily the one who completes the objective. I haven't decided if the weapons should be worth points yet since they do help during the game...

The weapons are the other problem. By the time you can purchase them you're more than likely at the end of the game, so what's the point? So I took away the store and made them treasure chest drops.

You get the item on the color rolled and if you roll red, you take a damage. This gives you a reason to actually stop and open a treasure chest.

I think these are simple additions that should make competitive games a little more fun. I'm still working on co-op rules. I think the actual character abilities will need to be tweaked for that but we'll see.

This is what is so awesome about these games being made of Lego. You can change anything you want and it still looks great. Try doing that with monopoly.

I totally agree with the race to the end problem. The store is more usefull if you are doing the three quests one after another, but the treasure chest=weapon rule is great for the mega combo of all four sets. Nice work.

[davee123]

I bought Fortaan and the problem I encountered is that the game ends up being a race to the final boss. There's no incentive to slay other monsters or stop for loot. And isn't that what adventuring is all about?

That's really the biggest problem I have with Heroica-- While reading the rules, we kept asking questions about co-operative play (can the druid heal other people? Can I give my friend a potion? Etc.), but when we finally sat down to play it, it was essentially just a game of whoever can get to the end first.

For points, I had earlier suggested this:

- Each completed mission counts for 10 points

- Each monster killed counts for the number of points equal to their power

- Each remaining health point is worth 1 point

- Each gold piece is worth 2 points

- Each un-consumed item (keys, torches, potions) is worth 1 point

- Each purchased weapon is worth 4 points

We also said the game completes when all the available missions are completed (we play all 4 expansions "simultaneously"), although I do like the idea that perhaps there's a *single* mission that signals the end of the game. Hence, you can go off on side-quests all you like and gather up points, but the game can be cut short by someone triggering the end-game.

DaveE

[Gyug]

One approach I've seen in other games is to have a *chance* the game will end after each mission. For Heroica, I'd start with a victory die with no tiles on it. When a player completes a mission, they put a tile of their color on the die, and roll it. If a side with a tile on it comes up, the game is over (guaranteed to be over in 6 missions; if you have fewer, maybe start with some tiles already on). The player whose color matches the rolled tile wins some small bonus.

We also said the game completes when all the available missions are completed (we play all 4 expansions "simultaneously"), although I do like the idea that perhaps there's a *single* mission that signals the end of the game. Hence, you can go off on side-quests all you like and gather up points, but the game can be cut short by someone triggering the end-game.

DaveE

[pedro]

Great thread.

I picked up Draid Bay today and had a chance to play quite a few games of Battle Heroica with a friend. We play boardgames a lot and are big fans of the dungeon-crawl genre (Heroquest, Castle Ravenloft, Descent, etc.) and so I'm glad TLC has forayed into this wonderful genre. It's great to read input into amending the game. Already I've got a few ideas of how to improve/expand the game but first wanted to share this quick little tweak that makes a BIG difference to combat.

We felt that hero and monster player are penalised too heavily when rolling to hit and getting a skull 50% of the time, thus taking damage and sometimes resulting in your character's death (all of the time for the monster player). It seem to work better for normal Heroica where the monsters are static barriers to be destroyed. So we used these results for combat instead:

Shield - HIT, inflicts 1 damage to opponent and/or special.

Sword - HIT, inflicts 1 damage to opponent.

Skull - MISS. Opponent receives no damage.

Skull and Sword - FUMBLE, inflicts 1 damage to self.

So change here comes from missing rather than receiving damage. It makes the combat feel more engaging and fair. You can still take damage from your own attack but it's much reduced.

Alternativly, remove self-damage completely by replacing the Skull and Sword die face (or fumble) with another shield. This is a quick and easy way to bring specials into the game more.

We noticed that the Goblin General needed some extra love too, so when he took a hit that caused him to lose his crystal, like the heroes, he'd move back one space, stopping him from getting immediately thumped again. If anyone is looking to give their boss monsters hit-points agood start might be to use the strength rating.

New monsters.

What about

scorpions and mummies from Rameses Pyramid

the skeletons from Ninjago...

Themeatically this makes a lot of sense when it come to creating our own Heroica Realms. The scorpions and mummies could be found in an ancient desert city lost beneath shifting sands, uncovered by our heroes after many centuries. Armies of skeletons could plague a dark and sinister Necropolis where our heroes have to venture to destroy an ancient evil... brick built monsters provide a conduit for some of the great experimental rules we've seen here already (roll 2 dice, pick worst seems great in theory).

[KurttKrueger]

I picked up Castle Fortaan yesterday, and have to say, I'm loving Heroica so far.

However, I have a question or two regarding some of the rules, and wonder if you guys could give me your opinions on it?

In Fortaan, there's a treasure room of sorts, that houses a potion, gold and treasure chest in one quest, and the helm in another. What rules do you guys use for the doorway with the black gate/grate? Same as a regular locked door?

Also, when moving to an adjacent square to a locked door, if you have movement left, can you open the door with a key if you have one and continue through to the other side? Or does the act of unlocking the door end your movement for that turn?

How would you play it?

The only other slight issue I have is gold collection during single missions is quite slow. I may introduce the following rule:

On defeating an enemy, you loot 1 gold piece from the monsters corpse. If equiped with a Dagger, or if you are a Thief, you may loot 2 gold pieces from the corpse.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Dan

[CorneliusMurdock]

In Fortaan, there's a treasure room of sorts, that houses a potion, gold and treasure chest in one quest, and the helm in another. What rules do you guys use for the doorway with the black gate/grate? Same as a regular locked door?

Also, when moving to an adjacent square to a locked door, if you have movement left, can you open the door with a key if you have one and continue through to the other side? Or does the act of unlocking the door end your movement for that turn?

I would think it's just another locked door. I've been playing that as long as you have the key in your possession, you unlock the door as you pass through it. Stopping and unlocking gives players behind you an advantage since they wouldn't have to stop. And then what's the incentive in being the one to take the time to get the key if all the other guys have to do is sit and wait for you to unlock it?

The "race to the end" is still the thing that feels wrong to me as far as gameplay. It may work for Candyland but I think it just goes against the dungeon-crawl game type. But it's easily fixed with home rules so I can't really complain.

The only other slight issue I have is gold collection during single missions is quite slow. I may introduce the following rule:

On defeating an enemy, you loot 1 gold piece from the monsters corpse. If equiped with a Dagger, or if you are a Thief, you may loot 2 gold pieces from the corpse.

I think you're going to saturate the Heroica economy and cause rampant inflation. Poor little microfigs will wait in lines all day to pay outrageous prices for little loaves of bread...

Wait... I mean, um, it sounds like it may make the thief a little overpowered if you give him the extra gold every time he defeats an enemy. I would stick with doing it only when he rolls a shield. Of course the only thing you really do with money in the base rules is buy weapons so it's not exactly a game breaker.

[KurttKrueger]

I would think it's just another locked door. I've been playing that as long as you have the key in your possession, you unlock the door as you pass through it. Stopping and unlocking gives players behind you an advantage since they wouldn't have to stop. And then what's the incentive in being the one to take the time to get the key if all the other guys have to do is sit and wait for you to unlock it?

The "race to the end" is still the thing that feels wrong to me as far as gameplay. It may work for Candyland but I think it just goes against the dungeon-crawl game type. But it's easily fixed with home rules so I can't really complain.

I think you're going to saturate the Heroica economy and cause rampant inflation. Poor little microfigs will wait in lines all day to pay outrageous prices for little loaves of bread...

Wait... I mean, um, it sounds like it may make the thief a little overpowered if you give him the extra gold every time he defeats an enemy. I would stick with doing it only when he rolls a shield. Of course the only thing you really do with money in the base rules is buy weapons so it's not exactly a game breaker.

Hmm, maybe your right with the gold rule. I really need to play a 'campaign' of Heroica, with multiple missions linked together, with weapons and items carrying over. I'm sure the gold gain will level out then.

Thanks for the responses though, very helpful.

[davee123]

it sounds like it may make the thief a little overpowered if you give him the extra gold every time he defeats an enemy. I would stick with doing it only when he rolls a shield. Of course the only thing you really do with money in the base rules is buy weapons so it's not exactly a game breaker.

Well, you could also do something like this:

Each time you defeat a monster, make an additional roll to see if there was any gold on the corpse:

- Shield (+2 gold, or +3 if a Thief, or have dagger)

- Sword (+1 gold, or +2 if a Thief, or have dagger)

- Skull (No gold)

- Skull/Shield (No gold, or +1 if a Thief, or have dagger)

DaveE

[KurttKrueger]

I've been thinking further about gaining additional gold throughout the course of a mission. Each review I've read for Heroica so far (and these are from boardgame websites, not Eurobricks) comments on the fact that by the time you've got enough gold to buy a weapon, the game is almost over.

So, how about the following rule (inspired by davee123):

On defeating an enemy monster, roll the Heroica die. If the result is a Shield or Sword, loot one gold from the corpse. On a result of a Skull/Shield or Skull, you find nothing on the corpse.

Theives and players equipped with Daggers still get to loot extra gold should they roll Shield during combat, but also have a chance to loot gold from the corpse of the monster. This is what I was thinking during my previous crack at this rule, but didn't make it clear.

Also, how does this sound to increase the challenge level of single missions? Not sure how it would work for a campaign or Epic Heroica due to the scoring mechanic:

When a Strength 1 monster has been defeated, you may place the monster back on the map at a location of your choosing.

I thought this might add a fun 'meatgrinder' element to the game, and add an interesting PvP dynamic to Heroica.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the above.

Cheers,

Dan

Edited August 3, 2011 by KurttKrueger

[Lordofdragonss]

My own rules:

I forgot to add:

When player with ranged weapon rolls skull, monster moves one title to that character.

so like in other games- Ranged=First shot.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Lordofdragonss

[Beefbanana]

Here are my home rules, some will probaly be similiar to other ideas though. Also I don't have all the games so I haven't tried all of these out.

Hero's inflict 1 damage.

Monsters have health equal to there strength, bosses(goblin king, golem lord, dark druid, goblin general) have hero packs, some (golem lord, and goblin king) have four health.

If playing battle heroica you may move as many monsters as there are ALIVE hero's. Roll once to determine movement for all monsters.

If playing battle heroica monsters are equipped with their artefacts, however, Ive changed three of the artefacts: the crystal of deflection is used if you loose health dont take the health of yet and roll the die, on a shield the character is not harmed. The chalice of life restores full health on a shield, the scepter of summoning allows the character to place a monster anywhere on the board, you may summon any monster, however the barbarian, knight, ranger and thief can control a strength 1 monster but not control any strength 2 or above monster (they can still summon high strength monsters but can't control them), the druid and the mage however can summon and control strength 1 or 2 monsters as they can control magic better, however no hero can summon a boss and control them.

I think each boss should have there own power but at the moment I can only think of one or two for the dark druid:

On the roll of a shield he can inflict two health of damage on a hero five spaces away even around corners.

If the dark druid lands on a magic space, he may roll the dice again, if it isn't a shield nothing happens, but if it is he may teleport the space and a magic door along with him anywhere.

The dark druid has three health but only does two damage in close combat as he trains mainly at range.

For special powers, potions, etc if it says defeat a monster if means take two health off, just so you cant get lucky and defeat a boss with a single potion.

Bosses can collect items and use them and even buy weapons for themselves as if they were a hero, however they can't heal when dead.

If a monster (not boss) lands on a space with a item they may carry it, the can't use it but can give it to bosses in a 1 space range, if they are killed the item is dropped on the space they died at.

I'll update if I think of anything else.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Beefbanana

[IshMEL]

Based on some variants found in this thread and Bryan Graham's "Heroica World" on MOC, we've been working on some new dungeon crawl rules for the combined game, with a bit more depth to the combat and more loot, and using some figures from other Lego games. Each Player controls 3 Heroes and there's a GM controlling the monsters. I also tweaked the special abilities and made them easier to trigger, and gave some special abilities to the boss monsters. We're still playtesting these rules -- let me know what you all think! Thanks!

-----

• About: Awesome Epic Heroica is a variant upon the normal Heroica rules. In this variant every Heroica game map is connected, and each player decides what missions they want to go for and in what order. There are Hero Players, who control a Party of 3 Heroes, and the GM, who controls the Monsters. This version incorporates figures from other Lego games for extra Monstery goodness.

• Parties. Each Hero Player selects 3 Heroes to form their Party. Party members may share or trade items if the Heroes are adjacent, but all party gold is held in common. Each party starts with 2 gold. Heroes from rival parties cannot attack each other. On each player's turn, the player will choose which of the 3 Heroes to move.

• Game Master. One Player is the "Game Master" (GM). The Game Master wins if all the Heroes die before the 4 Artifacts are taken. The Game Master moves after the Hero Players, and picks one monster to move or attack.

• Object of the Game: For the Hero Players, the object is to get the most Experience Points.

- Each Artifact collected by your party counts for 10 points

- Each monster killed by your party counts for the number of points equal to their Strength

- Each remaining health point of your 3 Heroes is worth 1 point

- Each gold piece is worth 2 points

- Each un-consumed item (keys, lit torches, potions) is worth 1 point

- Each weapon is worth 4 points

• Moving: Moving works the same in Awesome Epic Heroica as it does in regular Heroica.

• Fighting: Fighting is more complex in Awesome Epic Heroica than it is in normal Heroica, because Monsters have HP. (You can stack red Lego studs on the Monster's heads to keep track of their "wounds".) When a Hero lands on a spot adjacent to a monster, they fight the monster by rolling the die. The Hero is the "Attacker" and the monster is the "Defender." If the Attacker hits the Defender, the battle continues until the Attacker is hit by the Defender or the Defender is defeated. If the Attacker is hit, he moves back one space and must wait until his next turn to continue the battle.

Shield – Critical Hit, Defender loses HP equal to Attacker’s strength +1 OR the Attacker can use special Melee ability (for Barbarian or Thief). The battle continues.

Sword – Defender loses HP equal to Attacker’s strength. The battle continues.

Skull – Attacker loses HP equal to Defender’s strength, Attacker moves back 1 space. The battle ends.

Sword/Skull – Attacker loses HP equal to Defender’s strength, Defender loses HP equal to Attacker’s strength, Attacker moves back 1 space. The battle ends.

When the GM attacks with a Monster, the same rules apply, but the Monster is the Attacker and the Hero is the Defender.

• Hero Stats: A Hero’s basic stats are: 4 HP and 3 Strength. A Hero's Strength can't be higher than his HP -- so a Hero with an HP of 2 has a Strength of 2, and a Hero with HP of 1 has a Strength of 1. If a Hero loses all his HP, he is critically wounded. He can restore his HP in the same way as in regular Heroica, but he can only restore himself twice. The third time he loses all his HP, the Hero is Dead. A Dead Hero turns into a Skeleton (from Ninjago) or a Mummy (from Ramses Pyramid), controlled by the GM. The Skeleton or Mummy does not use any of the Hero's weapons or items but still carries them. Any Hero (from any Player) who defeats the Skeleton can retrieve the Dead Hero's items, but experience point credits for the Dead Hero's kills go to the Player who owned the Dead Hero.

• Hero Abilities: Rolling a Shield allows a player to use their Special Ability. These abilities are altered in Awesome Epic Heroica.

Barbarian – Melee – does damage (strength + 1) to all adjacent monsters. Also, Barbarians can smash Locked Doors or Rock Piles with either a Shield or Sword roll. Once smashed, any character can move through them.

Druid – Ranged – Fully heal and move 1 space, OR heal one party member 2 HP (need not be adjacent) with no move. Also, Druids can use magic to open a Magic Door. After two attempts to open a Magic Door (by rolling a shield), the third attempt will work automatically. The Magic Door returns to its original position.

Ranger – Ranged – Move up to 1 space, then do damage equal to your strength to an enemy up to 5 spaces away (in a straight line). Also, Rangers take 1 less damage from attacks from Animal Monsters (Spiders, Werewolves, Bats, Scorpions)

Knight – Ranged - Move up to 2 spaces, and does damage (strength + 2) to one monster. Also, the Knight has extra armor and takes 1 less damage from Non-Animal Monsters.

Thief – Melee – Steals 1 gold from the monster and does (strength +1) damage. Also, Thieves can open Locked Doors with either a Shield or a Sword roll. Once open, the door is open to everyone. Thieves can disarm traps and do not take damage from Treasure Chests.

Wizard – Ranged – Move 1 space, and does damage equal to your strength to an enemy up to 4 spaces away (around corners). Also, Wizards can use magic to open a Magic Door. After two attempts to open a Magic Door (by rolling a shield), the third attempt will work automatically. The Magic Door returns to its original position.

• Looting: After a non-Boss Monster is defeated, Heroes roll the die again to see if they pick up anything from the monster.

Shield, Sword – 1 gold

Skull, Sword/Skull - nothing

• Market: Instead of keeping gold for the end of the game, Heroes can spend it at the store for weapons, armor and potions at one of the marketplaces located at the 5 camps, and at the brown "dock" space at the beginning of Draida Bay. Once the items are sold they are not replaced. The marketplaces are run by NPCs (currently we're using some Minotaurus figs). Prices are:

Weapons – 3 gold

Helmet – 2 gold

Speed, Strength potion – 2 gold (stock 2 each)

Health potion – 1 gold (stock 4)

Items can be sold at the marketplace for 1 less than their purchase price.

• Weapons: Weapons are used differently in Awesome Epic Heroica than in normal Heroica. If a Hero buys a weapon that matches their class (Barbarian's Axe, Druid's Staff, Knight's Sword, Ranger's Bow, Thief's Dagger, Wizard's Wand), it adds 1 point to their Strength, *and* it enables them to use their special ability on either a Shield roll or a Sword roll. If they buy a weapon different from their class, it gives that hero the following ability on a Shield roll:

Axe (Melee): Does damage (equal to Hero's strength) to all adjacent monsters.

Wand (Ranged): Move 1, then does damage (equal to Hero's strength) up to 3 spaces away (around corners).

Staff (Ranged): Restore up to 2 health (yourself only), no move.

Bow (Ranged): Move 1, then does damage (equal to Hero's strength) up to 4 spaces away (straight line).

Dagger (Melee): Does damage (equal to Hero's strength) and steals 1 gold from Monster.

• Armor: The helmet adds 1 additional HP to a Hero.

• Potions: Speed potions grant a Hero the ability to move an additional 4 spaces one turn. Strength potions give a Hero +1 strength for one battle. Health potions allow a Hero to regain 2 HP. The Luck potion allows you to reroll the die.

• Monsters: Heroes encounter different monsters throughout their journeys. Below is a list of the monsters and their stats.

Level 1:

Goblin Trooper – 3 HP, 1 S

Giant Spider – 3 HP, 1 S

Giant Bat – 3 HP, 1 S

Mummy (from Ramses Pyramid) - 3 HP, 2 S

Skeleton (from Ninjago) - 3 HP, 2 S

Level 2:

Werewolf – 4 HP, 3 S

Golem Guardian – 4 HP, 3 S

Goblin Guardian - 4 HP, 3 S

Boss:

Goblin General – 6 HP, 3 S

Dark Druid – 8 HP, 4 S

Golem Lord – 8 HP, 4 S

Goblin King - 9 HP, 4 S

Other possible monsters for future campaigns:

Lava Dragon – 10 HP, 5 S

Pirate Captain (Pirate Plank) – 6 HP, 3 S

Pirate (Pirate Plank) – 3 HP, 2 S

Black Scorpion (Ramses) - 2 HP, 1 S -- After the Hero is first hit, you lose 1 HP per turn until the Scorpion is defeated

Gold Scorpion (Ramses) - 4 HP, 1 S -- After the Hero is first hit, you lose 1 HP per turn until the Scorpion is defeated

Or the Minotaur, Ninjago Skeleton Lord, Magma Monster, Draco Malfoy...

• Monster Spawn

If the GM elects to move a monster, and the GM then rolls a shield, the GM may instead "spawn" a new Level 1 monster. Monsters can only be spawned on the 5 brown "camp" spaces at the edges of the 4 rooms. If the camp is occupied by a Hero or another Monster, the Monster cannot spawn there. If the Monster spawns adjacent to a Hero, it must attack the Hero.

• Monster Special Abilities

The Golem Guardian and the Golem Lord can pass through Rocks in Nathuz as if they were normal spaces.

The Bat and Dark Druid can fly over Rocks.

Scorpion -- After the Hero is first hit, you are poisoned and lose 1 HP per turn until the Scorpion is defeated

All Goblins can move through any locked door in Fortraan -- it's their castle! -- and it remains locked behind them.

Goblin General - Begins with the Crystal of Deflection which absorbs your attack. After you defeat him the first time, you take the Crystal and the battle ends. The Goblin General must be then defeated a second time.

Dark Druid -- The Dark Druid can walk through Magic Doors. Only the Dark Druid can move a Magic Door outside of Waldruk. (Otherwise, normal rules for the Magic Doors apply -- they can only be moved onto dark spaces in Waldruk, and can be triggered by any Monster or Hero landing on a blue magic space.) After defeating the Dark Druid, rolling a Sword or Shield will get a Druid Staff as loot.

Golem Lord -- Ranged or Melee -- on a Shield roll, the Golem Lord can petrify a Hero who is up to 3 spaces away. A petrified Hero loses one HP and cannot move for 3 rounds. After defeating the Golem Lord, rolling a Sword or Shield will get an Axe as loot.

Goblin King -- Ranged or Melee -- on a Shield Roll, the Goblin King can resurrect a Goblin Guardian to appear anywhere in Fortraan, which immediately attacks an adjacent Hero. Defeating the Goblin King will get you the Goblin Idol as loot.

• Artifact Special Powers. Artifacts are still worth 10 points even if their power is used.

Crystal of Deflection -- Negate effect of one attack. Usable once only.

Chalice of Life -- Fully heal. Usable once only.

Scepter of Summoning -- Resurrect one non-Boss monster from an opponent's hero pack and place it next to an opposing player's Hero. The monster will attack that hero immediately. If it is not defeated by the hero, it is controlled by the GM in future rounds. Whoever defeats the resurrected monster gets credit for killing it. Usable once only.

Goblin Idol (using the golden idol from the Indiana Jones Raiders set, this gets placed on throne next to Goblin King and goes to the player who defeats the Goblin King). No Goblin will fight a Hero with the Goblin Idol, the Hero instead moves past them as if they were another Hero player.

• Torches: As in regular Heroica, if you are injured, the torch goes out. But in Awesome Epic Heroica, we have discovered the secret of fire! If you are adjacent to a Hero in your party with a lit torch, yours is re-lit, or if you pass one of the remaining lit torches.

[greeny]

Me and my family made a point system where at the end of the game you look in your hero pack and see how much stuff you have. The stuff in the pack is worth:

MONSTERS:

Strength 1 monsters= 1 point

Strength 2 monsters= 2

The boss= 4 points

ITEMS:

A weapon= 2 points

A chest= 1 (instead of putting a used chest in your box you put it in your hero pack)

Potion (not used)= 2

Potion (used)= 1

Each gold= 1

Remaing health= 1 point for each piece

Key= 1

It goes on for along as it takes until: everything has been picked up/ killed or 10 turns after the boss dies

Enjoy

[Gyug]

I've put together an on-line javascript game at http://brickoica.appspot.com

It's still in pre-release form, with a few bugs, but please check it out.

Note: Chrome or Safari is needed; other browsers have bugs in thier HTML5 support.

Ohh, someone with developer skills! I'm actually playing around with possibly making an online JavaScript version of Heroica, and I'm playing with the AI. I'd send you a PM, but I see you're new, so I'm not sure if you can PM me back?

[...]

DaveE

[CorneliusMurdock]

I've put together an on-line javascript game at http://brickoica.appspot.com

It's still in pre-release form, with a few bugs, but please check it out.

Note: Chrome or Safari is needed; other browsers have bugs in thier HTML5 support.

Neat. Tried it (with Safari) and it seems to work really well. Will the full version be free?

[Gyug]

Thanks! Oh yeah, I'm not planning to charge for it, it will be free.

I plan on adding the ability to create a character and save gold, xp items from adventure to adventure,

and maybe a simple computer opponent.

Neat. Tried it (with Safari) and it seems to work really well. Will the full version be free?

[Tereglith]

For the past couple weeks some friends and I have been trying to start up a DnD group, and I ended up being DM because I was the only one willing to read the red book (nobody except me knew anything about the game before we bought the red box three weeks ago, and my knowledge was very rudimentary). I hadn't been too interested in Heroica when it came out, but as soon as I started trying to explain the rules to them I remembered it again and swooped over to Wal-mart to pick up Castle Fortaan.

While some latecomers were using the Player Book to create their characters, the rest of us played Heroica, using rules that I came up with after playing it by the Lego rules a couple times. I designed these rules so that elements of DnD can be added slowly and painlessly to the LEGO rules, which are simple enough to be understood by my little sister who has never touched a Dungeon Crawl game in her life. It worked pretty well. They don't necessarily make for a great game, but they taught my friends some stuff. Below are my Dungeons and Dragons Tutorial Mode Rules:

Start with the normal LEGO rules. Add the following ingredients throughout several games to painlessly introduce rudimentary versions of DnD mechanics to new players:

-Dungeon Master

As it stands, Heroica doesn't have a DM. This is basically playing by Battle Heroica rules, but the player playing the monsters also narrates for the players.

-Modifiers, Skills and Skill Checks

Draw up an extremely simple skill table, preassigned to the different classes. Mine was:

Knight: +1 Athletics, -1 Perception

Barbarian: +1 Constitution, -1 Knowledge

Wizard: +1 Knowledge, -1 Athletics

Druid: +1 Perception, -1 Constitution

If you have other sets with the Ranger and Thief, come up with two more skills and reshuffle accordingly. Try to make it make some sense, but it doesn't really have to. Just make sure that each skill has something in the game that it can be applied to. This must be introduced in the same game as...

-Object Interaction

The most important habit for DnD players to get in (according to my 4E red book, anyway) is interacting with the environment in ways more than just stabbing it. To that end, I told my players that everything made out of bricks, they could interact with when on the square closest to it. When they interacted, I came up with on-the-fly skill checks and results (although I had some prepared). This is where it gets really fun for the DM, and it's best if you come up with ingenuity to match your players'. A couple of examples from last night's game:

-A player wished to tear the frog off the fountain. I asked for an Athletics check of four or better, and she succeeded, so she got to carry the frog around. With another athletics check of three or better, I allowed her to chuck the frog at a monster, killing it.

-A player wished to read the paper on the writing desk, something I had prepared for. After he succeeded at a DC 3 Knowledge check I allowed him to read a letter revealing that something was hidden in the fireplace.

-A player decided to dive into the fireplace because a perception check of 4 told her there was something fishy about it. (apparently she never thought to ask if she could extinguish the fire). She took one fire damage, but found the puzzle I had prepared in there.

-A player wanted to eat the giant chicken leg. I asked for a Constitution check of three or better, and she failed, so I gave her a -1 movement penalty for three turns and made her figure wear the chicken on its head, because of her indigestion. Next game, she tried again and succeeded, so I gave her one temporary hit point (signified by a 1x1 red cylinder, and another good DnD term to learn) and a +1 movement bonus for three turns.

With more sets, this can be expanded, and with an infinite number of micro-scale objects to be made out of LEGO, I think this is really the most robust element of the games. Everybody ran around trying to interact with everything, the obnoxious race-to-the-finish rule forgotten. In one game, somebody picked up the frog and tossed it into the king's square after killing him, making it the technical winner.

-Puzzles

They needn't be complex. As mentioned above, the path I made was that the players had to successfully read the Goblin letter, figure out that it meant the fireplace, and go into the fireplace. Once there, I had a crate piece with two 2x3 plates over it. Each had different bricks on it (representing two different possible sides of the die). Players had to roll, then decide which side to open. If they opened the one corresponding to their roll, they got its contents (either the Helm of Protection and a gold piece or the potions of Speed and Strength). If they chose... poorly, they took one damage and were booted out of the fireplace, never to return. It's not a particularly good puzzle, but it's nice and simple, and it'd surely be easy to come up with a better one.

-NPCs

I took the Dumbledore microfigure from the Harry Potter game and tossed him in a prison cell, where players could get useful information out of him if they were nice. I talked to them in my Potter Puppet Pals Dumbledore voice during the encounters. Again, not necessary, not pretty, but a good way to introduce the idea of talking to NPCs through the DM.

-XP

We used a similar point scheme to many others listed above. In one game, Dumbledore gave the characters a side quest, and that was worth half as much as the main quest for the player who completed it.

------------

These are just the rules that I came up with in one night, largely on a whim. I'm sure they can be expanded upon greatly be someone with better knowledge of DnD than me. I just thought that 'tutorial' is another useful application of the Heroica products, and it seemed to be a really good teaching tool for my group.

The object interaction, in particular, was where this rules mod really shined. It made the game a lot less polished, sure, but it added that LEGO wackiness that's omnipresent in the video games yet kind of lacking in the board games. I recommend playing with it.

[acidrunner1]

I agree, the barbarian is the least useful of the characters. I also had a problem when I combined all four sets as described in the rules. The magic portals from the forest are annoying because they can be placed anywhere. Getting through locked doors and past rockfalls isn't fun either. So perhaps giving the barbarian an advantage against these hazards would make that character more appealing.

Alternate barbarian powers. A barbarian next to a locked door or a magic portal can break it down by rolling a shield or a 3. A barbarian who is knocked back by a rock pile can reroll once per turn.

I know this conversation was a long time ago, but if you are still watching this, an easy way to make the barbarian and other unpopular characters more fun is to take three dice: one has two (specials) and four (two/skulls), one has two (one/sword+skulls) and and four (three/swords), and the last one is regular. Give your least favorite characters the option to use any dice anytime, and restrict your favorite characters to using just one die throughout the game(the so-so characters could use just two dice).

Also, an easy way to complicate the game is to:

A)have the monsters attack you (you roll the dice for the monster) if you move just one space away

B)have someone not playing hide a switch(a smal round 1x1) underneath a monster that allows whoever kills the monster to move a whole set somewhere else on the board

B2)the player who moves the set hides the switch again and is not allowed to defeat the monster that he/she hides the switch under

C)have players battle when the land on the same space instead of increasing a distance moved; the one who lands at the same spot is the attacker

C2)if the attacker rolls a skull, he loses 2 health; if he/she rolls a sword, the opponent loses 2 health; if he rolls both, each player loses 1 health

C3)if the attacker rolls a shield,one of two things happens;1)the defender loses 3 health,2)the defender loses 4 health, but the attacker loses one as well.

Just some thought as to complicating the game.

P.S.Just so you know, the black character is the Rogue, not the Thief.

[krystalKING]

I have recently discovered Heroica and am already designing my own rules, including:

After rolling sword, you have to roll again to determine the strength of the attack.

Moving on regular plates (not jumpers) lets you move two studs.

The magic spaces from waldurk now work as teleporters.

All weapons are now two gold.

And various new items, potions, and monsters including:

Scorpion, strength 1

Giant spider, strength 5

orange spider and web, strength 2

thief, strength 2

rat, strength 1

black owl, strength 2, loves shiny things, so it takes one gold when you roll skull.

quiver, lets you fire two shots ONLY if your the ranger OR have a bow.

green fire, adds one damage on all attacks.

fire, does two damage over two turns.

I have added new locations as well including:

Draida beach, location of giant spiders.

bridge of despair, connects mount terrian and volcanius.

Ruins of Allrona, location of scorpions.

Mount terrian, nonexistent on the board as of now, but location of the lava dragon.

Volcanius, Nonexistent, but will be a large volcano styled map.

Drandora port, thieves and rats, civilians also present.

Desert, Nonexistent, but will be a HUGE map, maybe a 3 foot square.

[davee123]

one has two (specials) and four (two/skulls)

That's not too bad, but I'd think all characters would elect to roll that die when not engaged in combat-- Its average distance is further, and increases the chance that you'll roll a special (and most characters' specials are long-range)

one has two (one/sword+skulls) and and four (three/swords)

Doesn't that mean there's no chance to lose a combat? I'd think you'd want at least one of them to be a 2/skull so that there's a chance of failure.

For the record, the Barbarian is actually the 2nd best character statistically-- Only the Knight is slightly more likely to win!

DaveE

[Gyug]

For the record, the Barbarian is actually the 2nd best character statistically-- Only the Knight is slightly more likely to win!

DaveE

Interesting.

I understand why the Barbarian would do well - in a race-to-the-finish type of game, the characters with melee skills get to use their power without having to give up any movement, and the Barbarian even gets to move an extra space.

The knight is pretty good, although I'm not convinced it is better than the Barbarian. Even though it has a ranged power, it still gets to move, which makes it clearly better than the Wizard for enemies 2 or 3 spaces away.

The other characters seem weaker. Ranger gets 1 space of movement, Thief has no effect on the game (buying a sword doesn't seem that great), and Druid healing isn't much better than just recovering after getting knocked out.

I ran a series of 22 simulations, using my javascript game's AI, between a Barbarian and a Knight, through the first map of Nathuz. The Barbarian won 15 out of the 22 games (68%).

[davee123]

I ran a series of 22 simulations, using my javascript game's AI, between a Barbarian and a Knight, through the first map of Nathuz.

I ran a sort of "generic" simulation-- essentially a straight pathway (so there's no locked doors, etc) with an average distribution of monsters of different strengths, roughly 8800 squares long, and saw how many moves it took for each character class to reach the end on average. I ran 20 simulations for each class, and I got averages of:

1) Knight: 6159.40

2) Barbarian: 6502.55

3) Wizard: 3-squares: 6504.60

4) Wizard: 4-squares: 6526.25

5) Wizard: 2-squares: 6580.55

6) Ranger: 3-squares: 6729.7

7) Ranger: 4-squares: 6731.4

8) Thief: 6755.25

9) Ranger: 2-squares: 6755.5

10) Ranger: 5-squares: 6758.55

11) Druid: 1-or-less: 6765.10

12) Druid: 2-or-less: 6832.45

13) Druid: 3-or-less: 7026.15

Each of those where there's multiples, that's different AI's that I tried. It's not comprehensive, but the idea was basically that the "3-square" wizard (or ranger), when rolling a Shield, would opt to attack an enemy *IF* there was one within 3 squares, but not if there was one 4 squares away. The Druid would opt to heal (when rolling a Shield) if they had N-or-less health.

So, in my simulations, the Knight was far-and-away the best, and the Barbarian and Wizard were pretty close, with the Wizard just slightly behind. Could be that the Wizard is better with some different AI, but I'm not sure. The Ranger was similar-- not sure what the best AI is. The Thief is pretty much (as you stated) ineffectual winning-wise when it's a straight race-to-the-end. It's only more useful in terms of the tie-breaking gold that you win, or POSSIBLY the speed at which you can acquire OTHER powers by buying weapons.

Druids, for whatever reason, seem like they're just not helpful. They reduce the chance that you're "defeated" (which can matter in a game where monsters are playing and they can win by defeating heroes), but otherwise essentially just heal you the same way that you'd heal after being defeated anyway.

Of course, there's tons of other AI's that you can take into account, like your current health, the strength of the monster you're planning on fighting next, how far away they are, etc. There might be some better approaches that make each class improved, but I haven't really played with them...

DaveE

[Gyug]

I ran a sort of "generic" simulation-- essentially a straight pathway (so there's no locked doors, etc) with an average distribution of monsters of different strengths, roughly 8800 squares long, and saw how many moves it took for each character class to reach the end on average. I ran 20 simulations for each class, and I got averages of:

[...]

DaveE

Very nice analysis.

To confirm, I ran some solo simulations, using the standard "Epic" map, with unlocked castle doors. The AI always went through Nathuz, picking up a torch and hitting one set of rocks.

The Knight finished faster -- 35.42 turns (ave. of 50 runs), while the Barbarian averaged 36.78 (~ 4% worse).

Looking at the math, the Barbarian has a 1/6 chance on combat of gaining an extra space. Since the average movement roll is 2.5 spaces, this is like saving 0.4 turns.

Since 1/6 * 0.4 = 0.067, You would expect a Barbarian to finish a dungeon 6.7% faster than someone with no skills, at best, assuming combat on every move.

A knight has a 1/6 chance of automatically winning a combat. Since you can expect to loose 3/4 of a turn in combat (1/3 chance of rolling 2/skull + 1/9 chance of doing it twice in a row + ...), that translates into "gaining" 1/6 * 3/4 = 0.125. So, you'd expect a knight to finish 12.5% faster than someone with no skills, at best, assuming combat on every move.

Comparing to your numbers:

a knight is (6755.25 - 6159.40)/6755.25 = 8.8 % faster than a thief

a barbarian is (6755.25 - 6502.55)/6755.25 = 3.7% faster than a thief

So your results are certainly consistent with this, especially if you perhaps had only a 70% chance on combat each turn.

I find it interesting that my multiplayer sims show such a difference. In fact, I ran a bunch of 4-player sims on the Epic board, and the Wizard (!) was winning the most often. It's possible that following behind someone for most of the game is a winning strategy...

[davee123]

I find it interesting that my multiplayer sims show such a difference. In fact, I ran a bunch of 4-player sims on the Epic board, and the Wizard (!) was winning the most often. It's possible that following behind someone for most of the game is a winning strategy...

Yeah, that's definitely an interesting twist that I hadn't really thought to test-- as well as who goes first, and how to react with other players playing. I would guess offhand that it's best to stand back and let the other players do the fighting for you (except for the final boss). That way, you can be the first to *pass* their location (since they have to stop after combat), and you also get to get an extra square of movement if you land on top of them.

Hmm... I can't imagine logically what reason the Wizard would have to win over the Knight, but if that's clearly the trend, there's probably a good reason lurking in there somewhere. What sort of AI is your Wizard using, out of curiosity?

DaveE

[Gyug]

What sort of AI is your Wizard using, out of curiosity?

DaveE

Pretty simple Wizard AI - will always do a ranged attack on a Shield roll if a monster is in range,

even if the monster is not along the Wizard's planned path.

Which raises a rules question - can a player move less that the number rolled if they want?

Rolls of shield/3/2 say "move up to" x spaces, but I think that is to handle the case of running

into a monster, rather than indicating the player can choose to stop early. The roll of 1 simply

says "Move 1 space", leaving no choice but to move.

I imagine this occurs mostly when players want to camp out in front of a door until they roll "shield".