Anto

Ultra Compact 8+N+R Sequential Gearbox

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Posted (edited)

This gearbox is an upgrade of my ultra compact 8-speed sequential gearbox.

The 8-speed gearbox was nice but it was frustrating to know that the 2-speed gearbox took as much space as the 4-speed gearbox. I thought about transforming the 2-speed gearbox into a 2+N+R one. I had an idea about how to transform this gearbox but I didn't really think about how to activate the reverse and the neutral. Maybe by doing something with the knobs... I spoke with @Charbel and he gave me the idea to use the Bionicle parts I already used on my previous gearbox. Then I ended up with this:

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I used large frames as in the Lamborghini Sian. They make the whole gearbox stiff and now you have just to build a chassis arount the 'box! :wink:

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The neutral was extremely simple to do. See by yourselves:

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The reverse was more complex to create. For every foreward speed, the 2+N+R-speed gearbox rotates the 4-speed gearbox by the red 16t at the bottom. The reverse doesn't use the 4-speed gearbox, it uses the blue 20t at the top of the picture below:

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To engage the neutral and the reverse, I fixed two Bionible parts on the left knob. So they act as a smaller knob, with two teeth, and at a point 1/4 turn of the right knob makes the left knob rotate by 1/4 turn, whereas for all the foreward speeds, the left knob does 1/4 turn every turn of the right knob.

 

Reverse engaged:

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Neutral:

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First:

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There is a stop not to shift from the 8th to the reverse. The engine and the gearbox wouldn't appreciate. :laugh:

The wheels have to be connected the the red axle and the engine to the grey one. It's possible to use this gearbox for a 4WD vehicle easily since the red axle goes through the gearbox.

 

With this gearbox you don't have to use a 8-speed gearbox and a DNR one anymore, as in the Chiron or the Sian. It saves space, and you can't engage the 4th speed whereas you are in neutral - all the speeds shift into a logic order.

 

I will make instructions when I have time!

 

Edited by Anto

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Very nice design! This is supercompact indeed.

I guess the lower 15x11 frame is not strictly necessary, right?

I use the bar with towball instead of these bionicle pieces, there is a slight diameter difference between the two. Have you experimented which one works better? I may have to upgrade my designs to these bionicle pieces.

The use of the biscuitpieces in the middle sections is interesting as well. How is the rigidity of this assy? I guess the only real alternative would have been a stack of three beams.

Great job.

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Thanks for sharing this brilliant gearbox! I am considering to use it in my current wip but I would have to modify it so a external axle for a different function can pass trough the middle 11x15 frame. Looks challenging considering how dense it is. Well done!

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Very nice creation, you just keep on improving your design :thumbup:

How about integrating a center diff for AWD cars next, now that there is some space in the frames frame left :grin::wink:

While the frames offer good stability to test the gearbox I think I would still use a different frame design that can be connected to the chassis more easily If I were to use this in a MOC.

Thx for sharing!

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God those large frames really do make it simple to have a stiff casing for the gearbox. I really like that

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I'm glad you like this gearbox! :sweet:

 

15 hours ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

I guess the lower 15x11 frame is not strictly necessary, right?

I use the bar with towball instead of these bionicle pieces, there is a slight diameter difference between the two. Have you experimented which one works better? I may have to upgrade my designs to these bionicle pieces.

The use of the biscuitpieces in the middle sections is interesting as well. How is the rigidity of this assy? I guess the only real alternative would have been a stack of three beams.

You're right, the lower frame can be removed, it's just to make the gearbox easier to integrate into a MOC.

I have tried both the Bionicle and the bars with towball and the difference between them is really little. But I have a slight preference for the Bionicle parts since you don't have to adjust how much deep you push them into the knobs and even though they create a little bit of friction, the rotation is a bit smoother thanks to their greater diameter.

I have tried to use beams instead of biscuits, and I couldn't feel the difference, both work the same. However using beams saves biscuits that may be useful for other purposes! :laugh:

 

13 hours ago, myvideo000 said:

Is it possible to implement this gearbox into the pimped Lamborhini?

This one is more compact than the one of the Lamborghini so yes, I'm sure it's possible!

 

13 hours ago, T Lego said:

I am considering to use it in my current wip but I would have to modify it so a external axle for a different function can pass trough the middle 11x15 frame. Looks challenging considering how dense it is.

Indeed it seems to be challenging, but I'm sure it's possible. A way to do it is to make the gearbox 4 studs wider and put free wheels (red 16t) in the middle, so other axles can pass through. And add two knobs (to have 5 instead of 3). If you aren't limited by the width of the gearbox, this should work!

 

11 hours ago, bekesizoltan said:

Do I understand well that this is a R+N+6 speed gearbox?

It's a R+N+8-speed gearbox. :classic:

For the foreward gears, the 4-speed gearbox does 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 while the 2+R+N one does 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2.

When the 2+R+N gearbox is in reverse or in neutral, the position of the 4-speed gearbox doesn't matter. In neutral, the 4-speed gearbox isn't driven by the 2+R+N one. The reverse gear doesn't use the 4-speed gearbox. So they are 10 possible positions in total, 8 foreward speeds plus a neutral and a reverse. I hope you understand better how it works! :wink:

 

2 hours ago, Gray Gear said:

How about integrating a center diff for AWD cars next, now that there is some space in the frames frame left :grin::wink:

While the frames offer good stability to test the gearbox I think I would still use a different frame design that can be connected to the chassis more easily If I were to use this in a MOC.

I don't know how, but I'm sure it's possible! :laugh: But the gearbox couldn't remain as compact at it currently is.

To me the frames made the gearbox like "plug and play", everything around makes parts easy to fix. But you are free to make your own structure. :wink:

 

 

There will probably be a little video soon, without editing for the moment because I'm very busy with another huge project! Just to show how it works.

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That's a very interesting technique with the bionicle knob things.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I am concerned that they might break off with prolonged use...?

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As other have said - I love your clever usage of those small bionic legs pieces, you’ve also proven (alongside the Sian set of course) that those large frames seem to be perfect for gearboxes - I think I need to get my hands onto some for myself! As you also touched upon in your post - I’m imagining that it would be pretty simple to fit this into any MOC as there is an abundance of pin-holes to choose from! Great work!:laugh:

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Awesome work!

This is exactly was I was looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if this concept is used in the next ultimate supercar set.

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I just got some of those frames and have ordered new gearing parts I hope to make this when I get them.

H

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Perfect!

Would you like to share instructions for this masterpiece?

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On 7/28/2020 at 2:59 AM, aeh5040 said:

That's a very interesting technique with the bionicle knob things.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I am concerned that they might break off with prolonged use...?

The torque to transmit is low and the assembly is stiff so it wont cause any problem!

 

22 hours ago, Ox1337 said:

Perfect!

Would you like to share instructions for this masterpiece?

Of course! As I said in the first post, I'll make instructions when I have time. :classic:

 

On TechLUG with other members we tried to figure out how to make a display in order to know which speed is engaged.

A first idea was to show if we are in D, N or R using only the position of the 2-speed gearbox.

But the simplest and best way should be to connect a round part with stickers to the shifter and decrease its speed. If the round part for the display has got 12 different positions, we can divide its speed by 3 so when the shifter does 1/4 of a turn, the display does 1/12.

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New version! It was optimized to have a better build and generate less friction.

50281872758_95785d3199_b.jpg
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The building instructions:

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-50877/Anto/super-compact-8nr-speed-sequential-gerbox

 

And the very poor video, to show that it works. I will make a better one when I have time.

 

In the video, the motor seems to be overloaded. Actually the batteries have been used for the video of the Ford Fiesta, so they are not new. ^^

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Dear Anto, I'm interested on the building instruction and part list of the "Reform Muli T10X".
Can you please send me your contact data - so we can dicuss the topic directly.'

Many Thanks 
Franz

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Great work.

I'll build this soon to see how it works.

Regards, Snipe

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Would it not be more efficient to use the old gear shifter instead of the Chiron selector for the two speed gearbox? That way you wouldn't have to use two driving rings and you could save space. I guess the shifting mechanism would be more complicated, but you still might be able to make it more compact. 

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Since the 2-speed gearbox also has a neutral and a reverse, this wouldn’t save space, it would just need more space to work and it would be more complex. 

The old driving rings (2L instead of 3) would save space, but they are not used anymore. ^^

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