Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[BrickBob Studpants]

1 hour ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m really interested to see what the design of the new Orcs will be. I’m so used to the 2012 design. It would be cool to at least get the Orc hair piece back 

Oh, I didn't even think about that! Considering they redesigned virtually every old specialised LOTR piece for the Rivendell set, I would assume the orc hairpiece won't make a return. Maybe the goblin hairpiece from HP might work? I'd rather have a new piece than that, but we'll see

[Balrogofmorgoth]

5 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Oh, I didn't even think about that! Considering they redesigned virtually every old specialised LOTR piece for the Rivendell set, I would assume the orc hairpiece won't make a return. Maybe the goblin hairpiece from HP might work? I'd rather have a new piece than that, but we'll see

I hope they wouldn’t use the HP goblin  piece. If they don’t make a new piece then I hope they’re just bald. But a new piece would be great. Problem is that set already needs several new minifig pieces for Sauron alone. Hopefully it would have the same attention that Rivendell got and get a ton of new molds. Rivendell had Gimli’s helmet, new dwarf beard, weapons pack (counting this as one), and new Elf hair. Plus it brought back the Hobbit hair with new part numbers and introduced dark brown dual molded short legs. So we could potentially get a lot of new stuff in Barad-Dûr. Hoping for a villain weapons pack

Edited September 18, 2023 by Balrogofmorgoth

[hikouki]

1 hour ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I hope they wouldn’t use the HP goblin  piece. If they don’t make a new piece then I hope they’re just bald. But a new piece would be great. Problem is that set already needs several new minifig pieces for Sauron alone. Hopefully it would have the same attention that Rivendell got and get a ton of new molds. Rivendell had Gimli’s helmet, new dwarf beard, weapons pack (counting this as one), and new Elf hair. Plus it brought back the Hobbit hair with new part numbers and introduced dark brown dual molded short legs. So we could potentially get a lot of new stuff in Barad-Dûr. Hoping for a villain weapons pack

I'm really curious if this upcoming set will have more or less the same piece count and would have a large roster of minifigs like Rivendell.

[BrickBob Studpants]

2 hours ago, hikouki said:

I'm really curious if this upcoming set […] would have a large roster of minifigs like Rivendell.

Since the minifig list is already known (Sam, Frodo, Sauron, orcs), we can rule that out. Unless you expect 19+ orcs to be included

(Assuming the description was finalised, of course. Maybe the final set, if it gets made, will include additional minifigs like Gollum.)

Edited September 18, 2023 by BrickBob Studpants

[Black Falcon]

3 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Since the minifig list is already known (Sam, Frodo, Sauron, orcs), we can rule that out. Unless you expect 19+ orcs to be included

(Assuming the description was finalised, of course. Maybe the final set, if it gets made, will include additional minifigs like Gollum.)

The only information we got is from that Survey, so if the Set is coming I bet we will see more minifigures. I don´t actually see them doing this Set without including Gollum for instance.

[Seaber]

Rivendell had the weapons pack, elf hair, Gimli helmet, dwarf beard, and the fern piece as new elements, and a few recolours. 

I'm not sure what to expect from Barad Dur, but I'd hope for Frodo and Sam to have Orc helmets and dirty clothes, and Sauron to have a new helmet at the very least - I'm not sure if there are any existing pieces which would work as armour for these three figures, or if new ones would have to be made. 

Orc Hair, Gollum body and Gollum arms have all been out of production for a long time. An Orcish weapon pack would be great though with 6 or so different pieces. 

 

 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Seaber said:

I'm not sure what to expect from Barad Dur, but I'd hope for Frodo and Sam to have Orc helmets and dirty clothes, and Sauron to have a new helmet at the very least - I'm not sure if there are any existing pieces which would work as armour for these three figures, or if new ones would have to be made. 

 

A lot of people have used the Overwatch helmet for custom Sauron figures. Whether it is licensed locked, who knows.

Dirty clothes for Frodo and Sam shouldn't be a big deal as it is just printing, but I wonder if they would just get fairly standard headgear rather than movie accurate helmets. I use the (non-purist) brickforge plague doctor helmet (painted) for Frodo, it has sort of the right shape although not perfect.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

51 minutes ago, MAB said:

A lot of people have used the Overwatch helmet for custom Sauron figures. Whether it is licensed locked, who knows.

Dirty clothes for Frodo and Sam shouldn't be a big deal as it is just printing, but I wonder if they would just get fairly standard headgear rather than movie accurate helmets. I use the (non-purist) brickforge plague doctor helmet (painted) for Frodo, it has sort of the right shape although not perfect.

Nah they’ll give Sauron an accurate helmet for sure. Now whether he gets new shoulder armor and mace, who knows. I hope so. I think a decent budget should be directed to him as a minifigure specifically, and I think they know that. I also think Orc helmets for Frodo and Sam would be awesome, and if they do it then they should do it accurately, even if they have to make one that could work for both of them rather than making two different ones. They’re similar enough after all. But I would also be perfectly happy with Frodo and Sam in just their Sammath Naur attire. Preferably with dirty faces on one side

[Seaber]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Dirty clothes for Frodo and Sam shouldn't be a big deal as it is just printing, but I wonder if they would just get fairly standard headgear rather than movie accurate helmets. 

Oh, I wasn't suggesting it would be a problem for the ragged clothes prints, that should be expected, it's the armour I was talking about which is not so certain. 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

21 hours ago, Seaber said:

Oh, I wasn't suggesting it would be a problem for the ragged clothes prints, that should be expected, it's the armour I was talking about which is not so certain. 

I think the Orc armor for them would simply be printed. I definitely wouldn’t expect new molded armor pieces plus molded helmets. Unless the new Orc figures all just have molded armor over their torso and the piece just gets produced like crazy with intent on future use. I certainly wouldn’t mind that, but I wouldn’t expect it. It would be cool though, especially since it would mean you could completely switch Frodo and Sam between their Orc disguises and their Cracks of Doom clothes with ease just by removing the armor and helmets and putting a hairpiece on. That would be neat

[Mordarch]

Hey guys, I'm new to this discussion so I was wonder if there have been any rumours for more sets besides the Barad-Dûr D2C? I hope they won't focus exclusively on big budget D2C sets, but LEGO might not consider the LotR franchise viable enough (popular with kids) to do a HP-style run of regular sets and one D2C per year. I consider the old LotR sets to be of an amazing quality for regular sets and hope to see it return in such a way.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

18 minutes ago, Mordarch said:

Hey guys, I'm new to this discussion so I was wonder if there have been any rumours for more sets besides the Barad-Dûr D2C? I hope they won't focus exclusively on big budget D2C sets, but LEGO might not consider the LotR franchise viable enough (popular with kids) to do a HP-style run of regular sets and one D2C per year. I consider the old LotR sets to be of an amazing quality for regular sets and hope to see it return in such a way.

No rumors so far past the Barad-Dûr set. I agree that the old line was superb and I think a new full blown LOTR theme would sell remarkably well in the current climate. It may not be as popular with kids as Harry Potter but I do really think it would be popular enough with kids to sell well, and afols would spend a ton on it. I think lego would be foolish to not at least try a wave of sets and see how it does after the success of Rivendell

[MAB]

44 minutes ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

It may not be as popular with kids as Harry Potter but I do really think it would be popular enough with kids to sell well, and afols would spend a ton on it. I think lego would be foolish to not at least try a wave of sets and see how it does after the success of Rivendell

All the rumours the first time around was that it (both LOTR and The Hobbit) was not popular with kids, and predominantly bought by adults. It did mean that there were some very nice discounts available.

 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

12 minutes ago, MAB said:

All the rumours the first time around was that it (both LOTR and The Hobbit) was not popular with kids, and predominantly bought by adults. It did mean that there were some very nice discounts available.

 

I can’t speak to whether those rumors were true or not. I do think a lot of it probably had to do with the poor reception of The Hobbit films. I think this time around, there’s an even larger adult da base than there was even then, and adults could probably carry the theme by themselves. That said, I still have a very hard time believing kids wouldn’t see those sets and want them, even if they aren’t super familiar with LOTR. Kids love knights and swords and bows and arrows and horses and dragons and battles and castles. I rarely meet kids that don’t love those things (I’m a dad of two boys so I interact with plenty of kids their age). I just don’t see it being that unpopular with kids, especially now. 

[Black Falcon]

19 minutes ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I can’t speak to whether those rumors were true or not. I do think a lot of it probably had to do with the poor reception of The Hobbit films. I think this time around, there’s an even larger adult da base than there was even then, and adults could probably carry the theme by themselves. That said, I still have a very hard time believing kids wouldn’t see those sets and want them, even if they aren’t super familiar with LOTR. Kids love knights and swords and bows and arrows and horses and dragons and battles and castles. I rarely meet kids that don’t love those things (I’m a dad of two boys so I interact with plenty of kids their age). I just don’t see it being that unpopular with kids, especially now. 

Agreed. I mean in the end kids play with stuff they either see in TV or Stores and want to have them - or just what they were gifted with (well or what one of their friends plays with). They won´t care if they don´t know what the story behind that figures is, or what names the figures have. Then they are just a wizard, a dwarf and a knight for instance ;).

[Balrogofmorgoth]

Just now, Black Falcon said:

Agreed. I mean in the end kids play with stuff they either see in TV or Stores and want to have them - or just what they were gifted with (well or what one of their friends plays with). They won´t care if they don´t know what the story behind that figures is, or what names the figures have. Then they are just a wizard, a dwarf and a knight for instance ;).

Exactly. The other thing is that lego has come a long way in their set designs since the previous LOTR theme. I think they now have a pretty good way of balancing sets to make the appealing to both adults and kids. Even more so than they used to. It’ll never be able to compete with Harry Potter for kids but I think it has a good chance of performing well all around. 

[Black Falcon]

In the end it doesn´t need to compete to Harry Potter this much anyways. I mean Harry Potter has many Kids as fans but also many adults that grew up with the books or films - or that just became fans reading them for their kids/watching it with them. I think with Lord of the Rings it would be similar, just that the percentage of adult fans will likely be greater. 

[Mordarch]

To me it just seemed a bit foolish to release a super expensive set and base the popularity and possible return of a theme on the sales of that item. The way they handled Harry Potter is how they should handle every new or returning (licensed) theme. release a few normal sets that both kids and adults can enjoy, with enough detail and minifigures to satisfy any fan and release an expensive D2C to really gauge how popular the theme could be and how much people would spend on it. Afterwards you can decide what to do with the theme. I don't think anyone expected the HP theme to be so popular as to become an evergreen theme. (is that the term?) And I think the way that theme launched is a big factor for this, good quality all around and a good mix for all fans, if they would do this for LotR they could really hit a goldmine.

[Black Falcon]

1 hour ago, Mordarch said:

To me it just seemed a bit foolish to release a super expensive set and base the popularity and possible return of a theme on the sales of that item. 

Well you never know what they are planning. But i actually don´t think they base whether they would bring back Lord of the Rings as a theme on this set but more if they will bring more sets of that kind. I would like the return of LOTR sets but at this point I doubt Lego has the plan to do so. At least for now. 

I still have hopes that we will see new Sets for the new movies once they hit the cinemas and then it wouldn´t be unlikely they will make new ones for Lord of the rings too. We have seen the same happening to Harry Potter and Jurrasic Park.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

I genuinely think now would be the time to start a LOTR theme. Regardless of what some people think of RoP, it brought Tolkien’s world back into mainstream media, and it’s a hot topic right now. There are more LOTR fans now than ever and more lego fans now than ever. If I were them, I wouldn’t wait for new movies to be out. I would start now, establish the theme, and let people get used to them being on shelves before introducing sets from brand new films. Starting with the new films rarely works out for them because they don’t take the time to establish licensed themes with sets from the films people are already in love with

[MAB]

5 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

In the end it doesn´t need to compete to Harry Potter this much anyways. I mean Harry Potter has many Kids as fans but also many adults that grew up with the books or films - or that just became fans reading them for their kids/watching it with them. I think with Lord of the Rings it would be similar, just that the percentage of adult fans will likely be greater. 

The problem LEGO would have is where to pitch them if doing small sets. Do they go for sets aimed at 12+ and include play features that sell well to kids, so things like oversized working ballistas and siege engines and undersized architecture and/or landscape or do they go for the 18+ route going for more static sets, possibly diorama type. They might get away with the right minifigures selling sets so long as they don't produce too many sets and need to repeat the same characters / outfits too many times. Too similar Gandalfs and Frodos were done first time around and both (especially Gandalf) were dirt cheap because of it. The other problem with small adult sets is if adults don't buy them as they are not very good compared to the big flagship sets.

It would be great to see smaller sets again but it wouldn't surprise me if they just keep doing the big display sets. If the new movies are kid focussed, then smaller sets might help fill in gaps, even if it is just repurposing printed parts to fit in with the missing characters in the LOTR trilogy. I think nothing of using CMF elves, dwarves, and various soldiers to fill in gaps, so any LOTR style torsos will be just as acceptable. 

[Black Falcon]

41 minutes ago, MAB said:

 Do they go for sets aimed at 12+ and include play features that sell well to kids, so things like oversized working ballistas and siege engines and undersized architecture and/or landscape or do they go for the 18+ route going for more static sets, possibly diorama type. 

My guess would be both. They would likely try to make sets that suit both Adults and Kids, but also Sets that aim on adults only (like Rivendell). In the end Lego is doing well in selling Star Wars Sets to adults for years , while they still have obviously for kids aiming play features

[Balrogofmorgoth]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

The problem LEGO would have is where to pitch them if doing small sets. Do they go for sets aimed at 12+ and include play features that sell well to kids, so things like oversized working ballistas and siege engines and undersized architecture and/or landscape or do they go for the 18+ route going for more static sets, possibly diorama type. They might get away with the right minifigures selling sets so long as they don't produce too many sets and need to repeat the same characters / outfits too many times. Too similar Gandalfs and Frodos were done first time around and both (especially Gandalf) were dirt cheap because of it. The other problem with small adult sets is if adults don't buy them as they are not very good compared to the big flagship sets.

It would be great to see smaller sets again but it wouldn't surprise me if they just keep doing the big display sets. If the new movies are kid focussed, then smaller sets might help fill in gaps, even if it is just repurposing printed parts to fit in with the missing characters in the LOTR trilogy. I think nothing of using CMF elves, dwarves, and various soldiers to fill in gaps, so any LOTR style torsos will be just as acceptable. 

One problem the previous line faced is that they used the exact same minifig variant almost CR time the character appeared in a set, even if they wore a different outfit in the scene. Aragorn is probably the biggest example. Looking at Harry Potter, I think they’ve learned that people want different variants of characters depending on their on screen appearance, leading to more variation in the minifigures. 

[MAB]

8 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

My guess would be both. They would likely try to make sets that suit both Adults and Kids, but also Sets that aim on adults only (like Rivendell). In the end Lego is doing well in selling Star Wars Sets to adults for years , while they still have obviously for kids aiming play features

Yes, but then Star Wars has a much wider age range as fans, same with HP. 

I remember the complaints the first time around - the Uruk-Hai Army set was complained about a lot as they made the ballista way too big so it appealed to kids (this set was very heavily discounted here). Same with the ship, that they made it because they thought ships appeal to kids, even though it was barely in the movie. How they aim, design and market sets is very important. 

[Seaber]

7 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

One problem the previous line faced is that they used the exact same minifig variant almost CR time the character appeared in a set, even if they wore a different outfit in the scene. Aragorn is probably the biggest example. Looking at Harry Potter, I think they’ve learned that people want different variants of characters depending on their on screen appearance, leading to more variation in the minifigures. 

Aragorn appeared in 4 sets, 2 variants. 

Gandalf appeared in 7 sets, 2 variants (basically). 

Indy, Jack Sparrow and Harry Potter from a few years previous are worse offenders I think, however Galdalf is the big one for LOTR above Aragorn. 

18 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I think the Orc armor for them would simply be printed. I definitely wouldn’t expect new molded armor pieces plus molded helmets. Unless the new Orc figures all just have molded armor over their torso and the piece just gets produced like crazy with intent on future use. I certainly wouldn’t mind that, but I wouldn’t expect it. It would be cool though, especially since it would mean you could completely switch Frodo and Sam between their Orc disguises and their Cracks of Doom clothes with ease just by removing the armor and helmets and putting a hairpiece on. That would be neat

I think we're basically saying the same thing lol. I suppose they could include the armour and dirty torsos for the Hobbit you could swap in. 

There were 30 new minifig prints in Rivendell, not including the short legs and sitting skirt pieces, and so hopefully that budget could be moved around for new molds. 

59 minutes ago, MAB said:

Yes, but then Star Wars has a much wider age range as fans, same with HP. 

I remember the complaints the first time around - the Uruk-Hai Army set was complained about a lot as they made the ballista way too big so it appealed to kids (this set was very heavily discounted here). Same with the ship, that they made it because they thought ships appeal to kids, even though it was barely in the movie. How they aim, design and market sets is very important. 

Something Lego is excelling at now which it wasn't so much in 2012-14 is big location based sets, which is much more what LOTR is about, rather than vehicles.