Are there too many licensed LEGO themes?

[JesseNight]

22 hours ago, danth said:

I don't know if we can really say that for sure.

Me neither. But I am sure they have people in-house analyzing such statistics.

  

22 hours ago, danth said:

Take Star Wars. Most people admit the new trilogies sucked. And how many more sets of the same things do people need? Star Wars fatigue is real. It's possible that sales of Star Wars sets aren't what they used to be.

But what is Lego going to do? Cancel the license? No way. You can't let someone else get it, even if it's not a hot seller right now. What if the next Star Wars trilogy ends up being actually good? I think Lego is stuck with the SW license, even if it has lackluster sales for years.

Well Disney sure is keeping the franchise much alive with all the new series and talk about upcoming new films, even if the fans of the original Star Wars stuff aren't liking it. Maybe it appeals more to the younger crowd?
Also don't forget that the new trilogies may have a lot of bad reviews, that never stopped any fans to still go and see it. It was a commercial success and that's what matters to a business in the end. That everybody pays to watch it just to trash talk it on Youtube later isn't their concern. Bad reviews don't hurt any business (unless there's direct competition for a same product), only undermining profit does.

[JesseNight]

21 hours ago, icm said:

Most people admitted the prequel trilogy sucked too ...

True, I remember that well during their releases. Personally I liked them, but I was already a generation younger than those who had seen the original trilogy in the theaters in the late 70s and early 80s.
Generation might be a thing. Or maybe some people are a bit too trigger happy on complaining first, learning to appreciate later?
At the same time it suffers from something that every sequel or prequel suffers from... It's no longer an original thing when we first see it, and yet it has to somehow live up to (or surpass) expectations that are unrealistically high after the original being a major success.

[icm]

Bingo.

[imposter]

So all you SW, HP, Game Theme fans... you don't want anything like this? Year after year same Hogwarth and SW vehicles...

[CloneCommando99]

44 minutes ago, imposter said:

So all you SW, HP, Game Theme fans... you don't want anything like this? Year after year same Hogwarth and SW vehicles...

Last I checked you didn’t seem to have a problem with year after year of the same batmobiles.

[imposter]

57 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Last I checked you didn’t seem to have a problem with year after year of the same batmobiles.

Well I don't know your LEGO self but let's go trough mine:

0: Lion Knight's Castle

1: Minifigures

2: Black Falcon Castle (MOC)

3: Dreamzzz, Transformers, Creator 3 in 1, TLM2, Hidden Side

4: More Dreamzzz, Alien Conquest, Power Miners

5: Galaxy Explorer + Stand

And then others like XL-15 (Lightyear) and TLM. So I DO NOT LIKE LICENCED THEMES!

Edited April 10 by imposter

[Black Falcon]

35 minutes ago, imposter said:

Well I don't know your LEGO self but let's go trough mine:

0: Lion Knight's Castle

1: Minifigures

2: Black Falcon Castle (MOC)

3: Dreamzzz, Transformers, TLM2, Hidden Side

4: More Dreamzzz, Alien Conquest, Power Miners

5: Galaxy Explorer + Stand

And then others like XL-15 (Lightyear) and TLM. So I DO NOT LIKE LICENCED THEMES!

Transformers and Lightyear are licensed. TLM included licenses (Batman anyone?

[Renny The Spaceman]

46 minutes ago, imposter said:

Well I don't know your LEGO self 

Damn, poor Commando, gotta sting.

6 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Transformers and Lightyear are licensed. TLM included licenses (Batman anyone?

I think if you're trying to pick holes in his arguments you need to learn a thing or two about picking your battles.

TLMs are really interesting as the film models and designs are done by LEGO designers to the needs of the filmmakers, it's an interesting blend of licensed and original (like just think how odd it is that the Ninja designs chosen by the crew behind the LEGO Ninjago movie are still used today, same prints and all) and I think where it lands for each movie is interesting in terms of the sets. If we're talking just about the sets though I feel the first LEGO Movie feels like it leans more original. Especially as the only element from any licensed theme is two Batman figures in later sets. Fun thing to discuss in this context though!

[imposter]

12 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Transformers and Lightyear are licensed. TLM included licenses (Batman anyone?

Yes I have the Optimus Prime and XL-15 spaceship. Those are my ONLY licensed sets. 

We are SUPER lucky that LEGO made Galaxy Explorer (3 different models) and now Blacktron Renegade (big robot, maintenance robot). AND of course lot of Castle stuff.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, JesseNight said:

True, I remember that well during their releases. Personally I liked them, but I was already a generation younger than those who had seen the original trilogy in the theaters in the late 70s and early 80s.
Generation might be a thing. Or maybe some people are a bit too trigger happy on complaining first, learning to appreciate later?
At the same time it suffers from something that every sequel or prequel suffers from... It's no longer an original thing when we first see it, and yet it has to somehow live up to (or surpass) expectations that are unrealistically high after the original being a major success.

That also sounds a lot like Alien Conquest,  Galaxy Squad and Castle of 2010-14. A lot of people seemed to put those themes down as they weren't as good as the space and Castle themes they had in the past. But kids of that time got on and happily played with them. And later, when there was nothing space and castle available,  people revised their thoughts and they weren't so bad after all.

 

[imposter]

The LEGO Movie 1 & 2

It was licensed from The Lego Group, Warner Bros. Pictures, and Warner Animation Group. BUT it is not a licensed theme. Like for example Expensive Star Wars and Harry Potter. LOTR or D&D or those horrible gaming themes like Super Mario or Sonic, Fortnite, Minecraft and other rubbish. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

32 minutes ago, imposter said:

Yes I have the Optimus Prime and XL-15 spaceship. Those are my ONLY licensed sets. 

You got rid of your beloved Shadow Boxes?? You monster!!

[CloneCommando99]

50 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

Damn, poor Commando, gotta sting.

I am never going to emotionally recover from this

[Renny The Spaceman]

1 hour ago, CloneCommando99 said:

I am never going to emotionally recover from this

Fair honestly. I think of everybody in the Aslume you both have done the most for his legacy and been the most open about the themes you're into. 

[Mandalorianknight]

9 hours ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Last I checked you didn’t seem to have a problem with year after year of the same batmobiles.

You must be thinking of Turtle, or perhaps Riddler DC. This is a third, totally unrelated person. Try again, Optimus.

8 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

You got rid of your beloved Shadow Boxes?? You monster!!

I was gonna ask about them before his response to Commando so expertly reminded me that he is definitely not Turtle in any way, shape, or form.

6 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

of everybody in the Aslume you have done the most for his legacy

How dare you bequeath upon him the role I've worked so hard to fill? How dare Commando take my place upon the throne? His "battle for the shell" a mere facade, for what is my Beskar if not the Mandalorian's equivalent of the Testudine Cryptodira's armored back? It was I who first alerted him to the presence of this third, totally unrelated, definitely not turtle account. I who allowed the forsaken one's spirit to channel into me in Turtle Tuesday posts. I who immortalized the turtle in digital bricks in two separate monuments to the asylum that birthed him. Does he seek to challenge my authority in all things armored and chipped? What chance does a mere cloned soldier stand against Khonshu's avatar? What construct of will could pierce the Beskar'gam that so guards my heart? The clones of Jango Fett may have adopted the high ground into their jetpacks but it was Mandalorians who developed the technology. IT WAS MY PEOPLE WHO FIRST FLEW LIKE A BEE! 

That monologue probably belongs in the Aslume, but moving on-

 

 

As for the answer to the question this topic's actually about... insert that gif of Pa Kent going "..maybe". It's undeniable that while most lego sets were aimed at kids and focused on general archtypes (town, space, pirates, castles, Old West, ninjas... submarines, for some reason), modern lego has an increasing fraction of sets focused on adults as well as focusing on licensed sets, seemingly at the expense of unlicensed ones. I don't have a problem with Icons legoizing everything, but I'm sympathetic to the idea that modern lego's a different beast than the lego of 20-50 years ago, and that licensed themes contributed to the increasing story focus on even the unlicensed themes. Even City has a big chunk of named characters and story bits now.

On the other hand, I don't think that, say, Star Wars is the reason we haven't had an in-house space theme outside the solar system (Galaxy Squad at the very least disproves the notion that it's a contractual thing), or that Harry Potter prevents normal castle sets. I think that, whether it's really true of kids or not, lego just doesn't believe those themes would do well unattached to known properties. (This is, I think, why the only sets we get for classic space and castle tend to be adult focused- people who have nostalgia for the old themes). Current lego, Ninjago aside, is much too focused on chasing trends and trying to integrate the story concept "being an ipad kid" (Hidden Side's weapons being iphones, Vidiyo literally being lego tiktok, the Cooper focus in Dreamzzz, which in general was more of a catch-all than a uniform theme) to make a new Ninjago or new Bionicle. 

Edited April 11 by Mandalorianknight

[MAB]

33 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

... modern lego has an increasing fraction of sets focused on adults as well as focusing on licensed sets, seemingly at the expense of unlicensed ones....

On the other hand, I don't think that, say, Star Wars is the reason we haven't had an in-house space theme outside the solar system (Galaxy Squad at the very least disproves the notion that it's a contractual thing), or that Harry Potter prevents normal castle sets. I think that, whether it's really true of kids or not, lego just doesn't believe those themes would do well unattached to known properties.

We have more unlicensed sets now than in the 80s and 90s. So the increase in licensed output is not at the expense of unlicensed as there is more of it. It is just that LEGO has changed direction for the unlicensed output. I find it a little strange that some people complain that LEGO is not creative / imaginative as in the past, when their current unlicensed output is way more creative than the stereotypical castle, pirates and to some extent space. If anything their output is too imaginative for these people.

[Renny The Spaceman]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It was I who first alerted him to the presence of this third, totally unrelated, definitely not turtle account.

I who immortalized the turtle in digital bricks in two separate monuments to the asylum that birthed him. 

I mean these aren't helping your case tbh. These actions are gonna get this completely new user confused with Turtle and banned unfairly 

1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I don't have a problem with Icons legoizing everything

I do, however. You see LEGO going this way proves the death of western culture as every single thing on earth becomes like ready player one, every movie, show, game toy and more will be about the sorta pop culture crossovers you can get behind, this process is called redditing. Many people are under the misconception that LEGO doesn't do a Deadpool figure again because of his franchise's R rating, this is wrong, the reason they don't is if they do then the company will become what is scientifically known as "terminally Reddit" which they can never recover from. So to answer the title of this, yes there are too many licensed themes and it's bringing us dangerously close to the point of no return 

[MAB]

37 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

I do, however. You see LEGO going this way proves the death of western culture as every single thing on earth becomes like ready player one, every movie, show, game toy and more will be about the sorta pop culture crossovers you can get behind, this process is called redditing. Many people are under the misconception that LEGO doesn't do a Deadpool figure again because of his franchise's R rating, this is wrong, the reason they don't is if they do then the company will become what is scientifically known as "terminally Reddit" which they can never recover from. So to answer the title of this, yes there are too many licensed themes and it's bringing us dangerously close to the point of no return 

Or, alternatively, you are completely out of the loop on what other customers want and you make stuff up to justify your own stance. 

[Renny The Spaceman]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Or, alternatively, you are completely out of the loop on what other customers want and you make stuff up to justify your own stance. 

No, my point about terminal amounts of Reddit is an absolutely genuine thing I definitely believe and also objectively true. You know this and the fact you feign ignorance says a lot about your lack of integrity.

[Peppermint_M]

If this is just going to get stupid then I'll lock it.

Discussions on the subject are one thing. 

[Mylenium]

2 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

I do, however. You see LEGO going this way proves the death of western culture as every single thing on earth becomes like ready player one, every movie, show, game toy and more will be about the sorta pop culture crossovers you can get behind, this process is called redditing.

The notion that everything hinges on social media presence, meme culture and popular culture footprint is frankly preposterous. Yes, contemporary culture has become a bit too self-referential for its own good, but it's not the end of anyone's "culture". And let's be real - not everything is about (social) media and its influence in the first place. I'm sure some philosophers had some wise words to say about this, but again suffice it to say that neither LEGO nor the world at large are coming to an end over the latest cat meme or every Marvel movie being basically the same plot...

Mylenium

[Renny The Spaceman]

37 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

The notion that everything hinges on social media presence, meme culture and popular culture footprint is frankly preposterous. Yes, contemporary culture has become a bit too self-referential for its own good, but it's not the end of anyone's "culture". And let's be real - not everything is about (social) media and its influence in the first place. I'm sure some philosophers had some wise words to say about this, but again suffice it to say that neither LEGO nor the world at large are coming to an end over the latest cat meme or every Marvel movie being basically the same plot...

Mylenium

This isn't even a rebuttal to the stupid shit I actually said, you made up a different, tangentially related stupid argument and combated that. 

A formulaic movie series or cat memes aren't really a fair comparison. The Reddit thing about marvel movies is how they're so dependent on referencing other films that people are nostalgic for the the point these movies literally pause for applause breaks now. You get movies like Wreck it Ralph 2 or Space Jam 2 that stop to show the corporation that made it's IP catalogue.

But, since I guess I have to say it, I don't actually think that this stuff causes the end of the world. I just think it's a little cringe and exaggerated that mild dislike I don't really care about because I was given a very easy set up to do so.

But also Ready Player One was, in fact, the death of not just someone's culture but everyone's culture. That's the beginning of the end.

1 hour ago, Peppermint_M said:

If this is just going to get stupid then I'll lock it.

Discussions on the subject are one thing. 

It got stupid long ago, this thread is an endless back and forth of:

"They should bring back the way they did LEGO when I was a kid" immediately followed by "You're nostalgia blind, unlike me who grew up with LEGO licences and want them for everything I'm nostalgic about." "It's more creative by my arbitrary standards!" "But it makes them more money!"

This entire thing is circular. 

 

[BrickBob Studpants]

14 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

It got stupid long ago, this thread is an endless back and forth.

[…]

This entire thing is circular. 

Of course it is, like any Turtly discussion before it  His superpower is inspiring silly discussions that never go anywhere.

[Renny The Spaceman]

Just now, BrickBob Studpants said:

Of course it is, like any Turtly discussion before it  His superpower is inspiring silly discussions that never go anywhere.

Yeah, I really should have expected it, honestly it's on all of us for trying to engage with it

[Mylenium]

2 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

The Reddit thing about marvel movies is how they're so dependent on referencing other films that people are nostalgic for the the point these movies literally pause for applause breaks now.

That same argument could be made for Shakespeare's works or German Classics from Goethe and a gigazillion other works. Likewise you could cite works from prolific writers like Jules Verne, Kippling, Rice Burroughs, Asimov, Herbert and what have you. They all reference their own works back and forth and the reason they do it is because it is/ was popular with people and sold. This is really nothing new. The only point that could be argued is that in modern days we talk about it more and in much shorter cycles and everything proliferates at lightning speed. The rest is neither here nor there. Far be it for me to judge other people's tastes. Of course "bad" art can be just as successful and popular as "good" art, but who's to say what cultural impact this makes? And let's be practical here. If people want the hundredth same Marvel movie then Disney would be foolish to not deliver that and make a buck on it. Why should I even be angry at them? There's a whole world of other movies that I find much more interesting. Rinse-repeat for everything else. And that's ultimately the crux with LEGO's licensed IPs, too. It's a business and why shouldn't they benefit from it? You may not like it, I may not like it, but complaining about it is as pointless as fan-boying about it and thinking they can do no wrong. As so often, the truth is somewhere in the middle and it's complicated. Also to add to your point: Don't you think LEGO Classic Space and other themes would be just as boring after having run for 30 years or whatever? It's all about the right dose. A re-imagined Space Cruiser every now and then can be a great thing, but I'm 100 % certain people would complain about all other sets just like they complain about Star Wars if LEGO still produced 50 Blacktron, Space, Aquanauts and so on every year. It's simply a matter of perspective.

Mylenium

Edited April 11 by Mylenium