Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

[SpacePolice89]

45 minutes ago, Darth_Bane13 said:

I'm nitpicking here, but two of them were on the cheaper side and quite good value.

 

Anyways my unpopular opinion is that I want Lego Western back over any other classic theme. I don't care that it's "offensive" or whatever, as I've heard some people claim.

I think that Western would be very popular if brought back as a full theme with all the factions. The same people that find the theme offensive also find the Islanders from Pirates offensive and I can see no intelligent reason why they have that opinion. Both the Indians from Western and the Islanders from Pirates are portrayed as good guys or as a neutral faction and never as villains so I don't see any problems. Some say that the figures are not historically correct but neither are the Imperials (Soldiers and Guards) historically correct or the Vikings and Lego is a toy so again I see no problem with that. People are too sensitive nowadays. 

[GameyRaccoon]

1 hour ago, Darth_Bane13 said:

I'm nitpicking here, but two of them were on the cheaper side and quite good value.

Aaaand... I bought them both. 

1 hour ago, Darth_Bane13 said:

Anyways my unpopular opinion is that I want Lego Western back over any other classic theme. I don't care that it's "offensive" or whatever, as I've heard some people claim.

I absolutely agree. I really enjoyed the Lone Ranger sets for what they were. I want it back for the same reason I want castle and pirates back. Anything "history" is going to be up my alley. Which makes sense seeing as history is my career.

[Darth_Bane13]

3 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I think that Western would be very popular if brought back as a full theme with all the factions. The same people that find the theme offensive also find the Islanders from Pirates offensive and I can see no intelligent reason why they have that opinion. Both the Indians from Western and the Islanders from Pirates are portrayed as good guys or as a neutral faction and never as villains so I don't see any problems. Some say that the figures are not historically correct but neither are the Imperials (Soldiers and Guards) historically correct or the Vikings and Lego is a toy so again I see no problem with that. People are too sensitive nowadays. 

It's probably just a reddit thing haha. I saw a post about bringing back Lego Western and all the comments complained about it not being Politically correct, hence why I no longer use reddit. I'm just annoyed we haven't even gotten an icons set, I know bringing back the full theme is totally unrealistic because modern Lego sucks.

2 hours ago, GameyRaccoon said:

I absolutely agree. I really enjoyed the Lone Ranger sets for what they were. I want it back for the same reason I want castle and pirates back. Anything "history" is going to be up my alley. Which makes sense seeing as history is my career.

I liked them too, although I didn't care much for the movie and would've preferred yellow figs. 

[GameyRaccoon]

18 minutes ago, Darth_Bane13 said:

I'm just annoyed we haven't even gotten an icons set

It really does feel like an obvious omission, doesn't it? We got pirates, space, and castle, why not western? A Legoredo icons set ala Eldorado Fortress would be a no brainer. 

[Karalora]

To those who have said there's nothing they like about current LEGO anymore, here's an unpopular opinion for you: maybe you should move on from LEGO? If a hobby no longer brings you any joy...you can stop. Strange but true! It sucks when something you've put a lot of love into over the years no longer serves you, but sometimes that's the way things go. Life isn't always smooth.

7 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I think that Western would be very popular if brought back as a full theme with all the factions. The same people that find the theme offensive also find the Islanders from Pirates offensive and I can see no intelligent reason why they have that opinion. Both the Indians from Western and the Islanders from Pirates are portrayed as good guys or as a neutral faction and never as villains so I don't see any problems. Some say that the figures are not historically correct but neither are the Imperials (Soldiers and Guards) historically correct or the Vikings and Lego is a toy so again I see no problem with that. People are too sensitive nowadays. 

I think I've had similar conversations with you on such topics before but let me be very clear about something here:

Just because you, personally, do not see a problem, does not mean there is no problem.

"Offensive" portrayal of an ethnic group isn't just about portraying them as villains. It can also be about portraying them as Other and flattening them into a single dimension while the ethnic group to which your viewpoint characters belong gets to exhibit variation and nuance. I wasn't into LEGO for Western and the early waves of Pirates, but just looking at the minifigures...yikes. The Islanders are the laziest possible caricatures pulled right from the pages of 1930s pulp adventure novels. The Indians are a little better, but the detailed facial designs compared to all other minifigures being produced in that era are frankly bizarre, and an example of "portraying them as Other" as I mention above. Neither type of portrayal would be remotely acceptable nowadays, and it's not because people have become "too sensitive." Indigenous North Americans, Pacific Islanders, and Caribbean folks were no happier about that sort of thing 40 years ago than they are now...it's just that no one in a position to make design decisions was listening to them back then.

Even if TLG does bring back Classic lines like Pirates and Western at some point, I think they should avoid making ethnic or racial "factions" at all.

[SpacePolice89]

31 minutes ago, Karalora said:

To those who have said there's nothing they like about current LEGO anymore, here's an unpopular opinion for you: maybe you should move on from LEGO? If a hobby no longer brings you any joy...you can stop. Strange but true! It sucks when something you've put a lot of love into over the years no longer serves you, but sometimes that's the way things go. Life isn't always smooth

There is always the option to build MOCs and buy only bricks from PAB/Bricklink and old sets from Bricklink which I see as a million times better than quitting the hobby. And there is also no reason at all to quit if one's favorite themes are those from 1978 to 1998.

[danth]

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

To those who have said there's nothing they like about current LEGO anymore, here's an unpopular opinion for you: maybe you should move on from LEGO?

Wow. So you asked that question just as a set up to invite people to quit the hobby? Ew...

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

If a hobby no longer brings you any joy...you can stop. Strange but true!

The total condescension. Wow. 

@SpacePolice89 makes MOCs and posts them here and comments on other people's MOCs. And I guess you didn't read @Toastie's reply because he says he buys old stuff for MOCing. 

That's funny because fans of Classic themes are always told they should just shut up and MOC. But now if we just want to MOC we should leave the hobby? Super cool.

Edited Wednesday at 05:24 AM by danth

[SpacePolice89]

51 minutes ago, Karalora said:

Even if TLG does bring back Classic lines like Pirates and Western at some point, I think they should avoid making ethnic or racial "factions" at all.

I believe that the the people you call "ethnic" and "racial" never had any problems with the subthemes but all the complaints are coming from white people from larger cities that want to be offended on someone else's behalf.

[icm]

12 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I believe that the the people you call "ethnic" and "racial" never had any problems with the subthemes but all the complaints are coming from white people from larger cities that want to be offended on someone else's behalf.

That sounds like a claim that should be fact-checked. I don't have time to fact-check that claim right now, but perhaps you'd care to provide some sources?

[GameyRaccoon]

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

To those who have said there's nothing they like about current LEGO anymore, here's an unpopular opinion for you: maybe you should move on from LEGO? If a hobby no longer brings you any joy...you can stop. Strange but true! It sucks when something you've put a lot of love into over the years no longer serves you, but sometimes that's the way things go. Life isn't always smooth.

I think I've had similar conversations with you on such topics before but let me be very clear about something here:

Just because you, personally, do not see a problem, does not mean there is no problem.

"Offensive" portrayal of an ethnic group isn't just about portraying them as villains. It can also be about portraying them as Other and flattening them into a single dimension while the ethnic group to which your viewpoint characters belong gets to exhibit variation and nuance. I wasn't into LEGO for Western and the early waves of Pirates, but just looking at the minifigures...yikes. The Islanders are the laziest possible caricatures pulled right from the pages of 1930s pulp adventure novels. The Indians are a little better, but the detailed facial designs compared to all other minifigures being produced in that era are frankly bizarre, and an example of "portraying them as Other" as I mention above. Neither type of portrayal would be remotely acceptable nowadays, and it's not because people have become "too sensitive." Indigenous North Americans, Pacific Islanders, and Caribbean folks were no happier about that sort of thing 40 years ago than they are now...it's just that no one in a position to make design decisions was listening to them back then.

Even if TLG does bring back Classic lines like Pirates and Western at some point, I think they should avoid making ethnic or racial "factions" at all.

Completely putting aside the culture war/social issues for a moment, I have to say that it's almost part of the appeal for me. I enjoy the cartoonish pulp in Islanders and Western and Orient Expedition sets for the same reason I enjoy old movies and old books. It's because it's so pulpish. It's camp! It's quaint. I find that interesting. 

And I don't have any delusions that TLG would revisit islanders or Indians in a hypothetical pirates or western revival. (At least not in the same way) But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

[icm]

3 minutes ago, GameyRaccoon said:

Completely putting aside the culture war/social issues for a moment, I have to say that it's almost part of the appeal for me. I enjoy the cartoonish pulp in Islanders and Western and Orient Expedition sets for the same reason I enjoy old movies and old books. It's because it's so pulpish. It's camp! It's quaint. I find that interesting. 

And I don't have any delusions that TLG would revisit islanders or Indians in a hypothetical pirates or western revival. (At least not in the same way) But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

For example, there have been several big Wild West sets through BDP, and they're all about cowboys, miners, robbers, townspeople. It would be nice to get some smaller playsets of the same subjects. The Fort Legoredo set had the cowboy, cavalry, and bandit factions but it didn't have any Indians. There shouldn't be any compelling reason to avoid a Fort Legoredo remake with the same cast of characters.

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

To those who have said there's nothing they like about current LEGO anymore, here's an unpopular opinion for you: maybe you should move on from LEGO?

Yeah, like @danth said, that's not really fair play in this conversation. Not cool.

Edited Wednesday at 05:15 AM by icm

[GameyRaccoon]

Just now, icm said:

For example, there have been several big Wild West sets through BDP, and they're all about cowboys, miners, robbers, townspeople. It would be nice to get some smaller playsets of the same subjects. The Fort Legoredo set had the cowboy, cavalry, and bandit factions but it didn't have any Indians.

There was a Legoredo BDP set? Damn. I miss out on a lot of these BDP sets because they come and go so fast. Does that mean there's no point in hoping for any icons offerings? 

[icm]

10 minutes ago, GameyRaccoon said:

There was a Legoredo BDP set? Damn. I miss out on a lot of these BDP sets because they come and go so fast. Does that mean there's no point in hoping for any icons offerings? 

Sorry, I didn't realize my wording there would be confusing. There hasn't been a BDP remake of Fort Legoredo, but there have been several Wild West BDP sets. https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Wild-West/theme-BrickLink

Edited Wednesday at 05:32 AM by icm

[GameyRaccoon]

1 minute ago, icm said:

No Legoredo BDP set, but several Wild West BDP sets. https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Wild-West/theme-BrickLink

This is the part where I start dreaming about winning the lottery. 910031 in particular is really scratching that Red Dead Redemption/history nerd part of my brain.

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, Karalora said:

maybe you should move on from LEGO? If a hobby no longer brings you any joy...you can stop. Strange but true!

Hmmm ...

@danth has already made my point clear. This is just adding onto it:

For me, LEGO is one system allowing attaching plastic pieces to each other; in addition there are electrical/electronic actuators, sensors, and controllers. That are the elements of one of my many hobbies, I enjoy as long as I like. Whereas ABS lives forever, the electronic elements do not. SO another of my hobbies tied to LEGO is making them work as long as I can do that; I guess my 16 years of posting about that here on EB is sort of sketching that approach. 

TLG is an enterprise making an enormous amount of money. In the past they offered things that I really liked. Today they don't. But why should I move on to other hobbies? All elements of my hobby regarding LEGO are still here, and I am playing with these as of today. And I am adding to the hobby by a) buying old LEGO (after all, BL, selling LEGO pieces, has become TLG) and b) buying LEGO compatible new alternatives. This nicely expands my hobby regarding a system allowing attaching plastic pieces together, which is one of my hobbies.

Best
Thorsten

[Siroco]

4 hours ago, Karalora said:

The Islanders are the laziest possible caricatures pulled right from the pages of 1930s pulp adventure novels.

So where the Pirates, the Imperials and the Armada!

I don't think TLG will bring back the islanders, but if they do you can allways, in your kind words, stop your hobby.

[JesseNight]

21 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I think that they are missing a huge amount of sales by not catering to their own fanbase. Nothing wrong with appealing to new customers but totally mistreating loyal customers and fans is very wrong.

I suppose there's something to say about both sides.
I've been late to the party on products before where I felt totally ignored as the new potential customer in favor of the loyal fanbase. It's probably hard to find a good middle ground. Trying to satisfy both also risks dissatisfying both to some extend.

[SpacePolice89]

2 hours ago, JesseNight said:

I suppose there's something to say about both sides.
I've been late to the party on products before where I felt totally ignored as the new potential customer in favor of the loyal fanbase. It's probably hard to find a good middle ground. Trying to satisfy both also risks dissatisfying both to some extend.

Regarding the classic themes a good compromise would be to release a full wave of sets for one of them every other year. For example: Pirates 2027, Castle 2029 and Space 2031 and then start all over. Each theme (including two factions e.g. Pirates and Imperial Guards) would be available for two years and include sets in all sizes and some would be more traditional while others would be more modern but all sets still normal kid friendly sets. When a theme is not available single large 18+ sets like the Galaxy Explorer or the Eldorado Fortress could be released.

[Karalora]

Wow, who knew "If it sucks, hit da brickz!" would turn out to be a genuinely unpopular opinion?

8 hours ago, danth said:

Wow. So you asked that question just as a set up to invite people to quit the hobby? Ew...

The total condescension. Wow. 

I was aiming for wry and apparently hit condescension by mistake, and for that I apologize. And no, I was not trying to set up a situation where I would tell people they should quit. It was more of a rhetorical question--if all you do here is complain about the state of the hobby, are you even having fun with LEGO anymore? And if you're not, why are you still doing it? The obvious corollary is that if you are still having fun and you just need to vent about stuff here, then the previous questions do not apply.

I unironically think there should be a therapy specialty for people leaving hobbies that they've had for a long time because it no longer brings them joy. It can be as much of a gut-punch as a relationship breakup, and considering the importance of hobbies for overall mental health, it's no trivial thing.

8 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I believe that the the people you call "ethnic" and "racial" never had any problems with the subthemes but all the complaints are coming from white people from larger cities that want to be offended on someone else's behalf.

This is a pretty bold claim. What are you basing it on?

Back to a less polarized topic...

2 hours ago, JesseNight said:

I suppose there's something to say about both sides.
I've been late to the party on products before where I felt totally ignored as the new potential customer in favor of the loyal fanbase. It's probably hard to find a good middle ground. Trying to satisfy both also risks dissatisfying both to some extend.

Yeah, this. Obviously we would all love it if TLG would cater to our individual tastes until we had our fill, but a global brand has to aim for mass-market appeal and try to please as many segments as possible while avoiding obvious controversies to the greatest extent feasible.

A recurring statement I see around here is "I think kids would love [X Classic Theme] if they brought it back, because I would love it/I loved it when I was a kid/I know some kids who like the idea." That's a very small sample to generalize from, you know? We kind of have to assume that TLG makes decisions based on up-to-date market research, and that said research therefore counter-indicates the viability of Classic themes except as occasional one-off sets to appeal to adult collectors who can drop $300 on a set. And no--market research isn't infallible. Sometimes the research says "This is a hot trend, get in on it" and then the trend drops just before the new product goes to market. (This is why smart companies experiment on multiple fronts while also maintaining some evergreen products.)

I want to circle back to a question I asked earlier and then kind of rephrased in a way that led a conversation which upset everyone:

Assuming LEGO is not going to revive the Classic themes in the foreseeable future, what would be the next best route they could take?

[icm]

As @danth has said so many times, classic themed Creator sets. It would be nice to have a Creator castle, a Creator pirate ship, and a small to medium sized Creator castle set and pirate set on shelves at all times, if it's not viable for whatever reason to produce full waves of either theme. Also, a rotation of Icons throwback sets at a slightly higher, but still accessible, price point.

Or maybe I'll say this: Icons and Ideas seem to have budget structures that allow them to do themed one-offs pretty well at relatively high price points. It would be nice if there was another theme with a cost structure set up to do themed one-offs at relatively low price points, as regular retail sets (not just as gwps). Maybe you do a little Ice Planet spaceship one quarter and a little Vikings boat the next quarter.

Edited Wednesday at 01:59 PM by icm

[GameyRaccoon]

58 minutes ago, Karalora said:

Assuming LEGO is not going to revive the Classic themes in the foreseeable future, what would be the next best route they could take?

Why not make icons sets that don't cost so much money? Blacktron Cruiser/Forestmen's hideout-sized sets that aren't locked behind a GWP. You could mine out even more of the adult collector/classic theme fan demo who maybe is strapped for cash or space and can't justify the big sets. You aren't investing in the shelf space/marketing required for a whole theme, but you are more regularly saying "Hey, here's a little 30 dollar classic space/castle/pirates set." That seems like the perfect happy medium to me.

You may consider that "reviving classic themes," though.

49 minutes ago, icm said:

It would be nice if there was another theme with a cost structure set up to do themed one-offs at relatively low price points, as regular retail sets (not just as gwps).

@icm said it before I could finish typing it up. The 90th anniversary stuff was very good in my opinion and should be model for the future. Frighteningly, the 100th anniversary is not far off, and I would like to see more classic remakes then. 

The cynical part of me says not to hold your breath, though. As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), the galaxy explorer and blacktron renegade did not sell well despite being priced and designed quite well in my opinion.

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, Karalora said:

Assuming LEGO is not going to revive the Classic themes in the foreseeable future, what would be the next best route they could take?

Hmmm - I believe they are already taking the "best route" (for them)? I mean, for such an enterprise, revenue and profit are relevant figures of merit - and I believe they are doing very well. From that perspective, their current strategy looks fine. TLG has all relevant market data, and quite honestly, I believe that they know exactly which mix of product lines maximizes their profit. And this is why it is as it is.

Best
Thorsten   

    

[danth]

1 hour ago, GameyRaccoon said:

The cynical part of me says not to hold your breath, though. As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), the galaxy explorer and blacktron renegade did not sell well despite being priced and designed quite well in my opinion.

People just say that. Nobody actually knows. The Galaxy Explorer had a special price at Walmart on release before there was any sales data. I think they used it as a promotional item. And then later it got marked down a few times like almost every other set does. I see SW and Harry Potter sets go on sale all the time. Yet people filter those specials out. It's all confirmation bias. 

I don't think Lego would do an entire year of space, complete with a CMF series & City Space wave, immediately after the Galaxy Explorer if it sold poorly. 

Now the Renegade? No comment.

2 hours ago, icm said:

As @danth has said so many times, classic themed Creator sets. It would be nice to have a Creator castle, a Creator pirate ship, and a small to medium sized Creator castle set and pirate set on shelves at all times, if it's not viable for whatever reason to produce full waves of either theme. Also, a rotation of Icons throwback sets at a slightly higher, but still accessible, price point.

Or maybe I'll say this: Icons and Ideas seem to have budget structures that allow them to do themed one-offs pretty well at relatively high price points. It would be nice if there was another theme with a cost structure set up to do themed one-offs at relatively low price points, as regular retail sets (not just as gwps). Maybe you do a little Ice Planet spaceship one quarter and a little Vikings boat the next quarter.

Agreed.

Another option: do what they did for Space in 2024. I'm totally ready for City Castle and City Pirates.

I'm only half kidding. 

[Darth_Bane13]

10 hours ago, icm said:

That sounds like a claim that should be fact-checked. I don't have time to fact-check that claim right now, but perhaps you'd care to provide some sources?

Actually the burden of proof falls on the people making the claim that people are offended by being represented in LEGO.

11 hours ago, Karalora said:

Just because you, personally, do not see a problem, does not mean there is no problem.

"Offensive" portrayal of an ethnic group isn't just about portraying them as villains. It can also be about portraying them as Other and flattening them into a single dimension while the ethnic group to which your viewpoint characters belong gets to exhibit variation and nuance. I wasn't into LEGO for Western and the early waves of Pirates, but just looking at the minifigures...yikes. The Islanders are the laziest possible caricatures pulled right from the pages of 1930s pulp adventure novels. The Indians are a little better, but the detailed facial designs compared to all other minifigures being produced in that era are frankly bizarre, and an example of "portraying them as Other" as I mention above. Neither type of portrayal would be remotely acceptable nowadays, and it's not because people have become "too sensitive." Indigenous North Americans, Pacific Islanders, and Caribbean folks were no happier about that sort of thing 40 years ago than they are now...it's just that no one in a position to make design decisions was listening to them back then.

Even if TLG does bring back Classic lines like Pirates and Western at some point, I think they should avoid making ethnic or racial "factions" at all.

As @SpacePolice89 said, the only people who are offended are white liberal women such as yourself. Do you even live in the real world? Native Americans and pacific islanders aren't sitting around getting angry about being portrayed as a Lego. 

2 hours ago, Karalora said:

I unironically think there should be a therapy specialty for people leaving hobbies that they've had for a long time because it no longer brings them joy. It can be as much of a gut-punch as a relationship breakup, and considering the importance of hobbies for overall mental health, it's no trivial thing.

This is just absolutely ridiculous. I swear you people have not faced any real problems in life.

[GameyRaccoon]

5 minutes ago, danth said:

Another option: do what they did for Space in 2024. I'm totally ready for City Castle and City Pirates.

I could legitimately see it. They'd call it a renaissance fair or something like that.