Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[Altair1]

39 minutes ago, mtrsteve said:

I saw that MOC 10 years ago, and it's still my ideal of a Minas Tirith set (with a touch more interior detailing).

Yes it does look pretty good, I am not sure why some people dislike it.

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

'm really surprised everyone is saying Helms Deep for a next set. It seems like an obvious choice to make Edoras next.

Exactly :-)

[Black Falcon]

2 hours ago, psqidexslizer said:

I doubt even all these would be enough to convince anyone to buy a set based on The Hobbit trilogy.

I would prefer a proper Erebor Set over many LotR locations actually. But that is also about the only Hobbit Location I would want to have. 

[Renny The Spaceman]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

I would prefer a proper Erebor Set over many LotR locations actually. But that is also about the only Hobbit Location I would want to have. 

I feel like if they do a Hobbit set in this line of megabluck off massive ones I think it'll just be a big buildable Smaug with Bilbo and MAYBE  Thorin. Erebor would be cool

[Cyprinus]

8 hours ago, Altair1 said:

I don't really understand how a true Lego LOTR fan could skip a Minas Tirith set, whatever its format... if it is not designed to your wishes, you could always use it as a base for a MOC, rather than skipping it. 

I don't understand why someone would buy something they don't like (or is flat out shite) just because it has a label.

9 hours ago, Altair1 said:

Correct. The Minas Tirith set must cover the whole city or there will be a backlash as big as for the SW Death Slice... I still think it is feasible, either in microscale or minifig scale, but it will cost at least 500 EUR (and hopefully more - the more expensive, the more complete it will be).

Funnily enough the Death Slice approach wouldn't work for MT - too little happens in its interiors. Which is one of the reasons approaching it like Hogwarts Modular Castle wouldn't work.

9 hours ago, MAB said:

Minas Tirith suggests different things to different people. To some it is the city itself, to some it is what happens there, to others it is the whole region including the Pelennor Fields. Just like when I think of The Shire, I think of rolling green hills with hobbit holes and not just a single building and a tree. Yet they still called the set "The Shire", instead of "Bag End" or "Bilbo's Birthday Celebrations".

But to the vast majority of people MT means the whole city, with its unique shape and look. A hobbit hole with some greenery is a much better representation of the Shire (also, if not microscale getting multiple hills with Hobbit holes would be unlikely) than having, say, the courtyard with the white tree and calling that MT. 

[MAB]

10 hours ago, Cyprinus said:

But to the vast majority of people MT means the whole city, with its unique shape and look. 

Do they, or is that your opinion? Is there a survey or something that says people want the want the whole city rather than a minifigure scale set?

12 hours ago, Altair1 said:

Yes it does look pretty good, I am not sure why some people dislike it.

Because from the back  it makes Minas Tirith look like the volcano base in James Bond You Only Live Twice. The city is hollowed out and there is a huge cavern inside.

But worse than that,  from the front when minifigures are posed on the microscale side, it makes the city look like it is about 15m tall and is just a few walls built on a small hill. It looks like they could accurately throw rocks from the top to the bottom or vice versa. The mix of minifigure and microscale doesn't work when both used together. This is where it is different to Barad-Dûr,  as they don't pose figures climbing up or interacting with the microscale side of the tower. There is clear separation between the scales. But so much action in the city of Minas Tirith happens outside, yet there is no outside at minifigure scale.

[Altair1]

10 hours ago, Cyprinus said:

I don't understand why someone would buy something they don't like (or is flat out shite) just because it has a label.

It is not just about the label. I never bought any ''LOTR'' BrickHeadz for example, because to me they do not really belong in the theme - I find them really ugly and I think they would look totally out of place in a display with all my real LOTR sets. But the upcoming Minas Tirith set is probably the only one we will get in our lifetime, so even if it badly designed (I pray that it isn't), it will still be worth it at least for the minifigs and to be used as as base for a MOC. The situation is very different in the SW theme, for which we are spoiled with countless sets and several versions of all the iconic ships and locations. I skipped the Death Slice because I already own a previous version (75159) which is actually a sphere and which I like much better. I cannot afford to be as picky for a Minas Tirith set, which for me is a dream come true - I still can't believe it is actually happening :-)

[Cyprinus]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Do they, or is that your opinion? Is there a survey or something that says people want the want the whole city rather than a minifigure scale set?

I guess this means we can't say many people were disappointed with the Death Slice - no proper survey was made. Just comments on various sites, forums and discord servers. The same thing I based my MT comment on.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Cyprinus said:

I guess this means we can't say many people were disappointed with the Death Slice - no proper survey was made. Just comments on various sites, forums and discord servers. The same thing I based my MT comment on.

Many people are, but then I imagine that those people were going to be unhappy with it anyway because of the price and wanted a reason to moan. Some people are unhappy about the shape not being spherical, but then to make it spherical would reduce the size massively or lead to a lot of unused space. Or to make it hemispherical would still take a lot of bricks when most of that would be hidden against a wall. They could have done a large sphere and covered it with a skin to make it realistic, but who would pay $1000 for a large beach ball sized grey sphere with no minifigures. Personally, I think the shape is fine, that is what you get when you take a slice through the centre of a sphere. But then the main point of the set is to show a series of vignettes of things that happened inside the Death Star rather than the shape of the Death Star. People whine about the shape, but if it was different they would have whined about something else on a set they weren't going to buy anyway. Some people were complaining that the minifigures were not the most accurate ones, which I can understand even though in some cases the parts are no longer in production. But then others were complaining they were not exclusive minifigures to this set. Yet if they had done that, there would have been complaints about exclusivity and paywalls, and having to spend $1000 for just one minifigure ignoring the rest of the parts and set.

I have also seen content from people that have bought the set and are happy with it. To me, that is more important than content from people that haven't bought it and probably were not going to buy it. I have also seen people waiting patiently in the LEGO store to take a close look at it, then go on to buy some other SW LEGO while they were in the store. Which I imagine is part of the reason that this set exists.

As to LOTR sets, I have seen people wanting a minifigure scale Minas Tirith set and I have also seen people wanting a microscale set. I don't think there is a huge majority either way so it cannot be said that most people want this or that. Hence my earlier comment about it being possibly the most divisive location, as whatever they do a reasonable number of people will be unhappy with it.

4 hours ago, Altair1 said:

But the upcoming Minas Tirith set is probably the only one we will get in our lifetime, so even if it badly designed (I pray that it isn't), it will still be worth it at least for the minifigs and to be used as as base for a MOC. The situation is very different in the SW theme, for which we are spoiled with countless sets and several versions of all the iconic ships and locations.

It depends what comes with the Minas Tirith set. White and grey bricks are white and grey bricks, it doesn't matter what badge is on the box they were packaged in. Whether the minifigures are worth it also depends on what they are. If they repeat Legolas and Aragorn from Rivendell, and do a Gandalf the White and Denethor, I'd skip them as I already have figures similar to those. If there are just 1-2 useful figures, I'd buy them on BL or ebay and forget the rest of the set. If there were multiple figures that I wanted then I might buy the set even if the build was not very interesting for me, especially if buying the figures on the secondary market cost almost as much as the set. Then I'd either sell the build if it was not so interesting or use the bricks as a parts pack, but as I already have loads of white and grey bricks this is not so interesting especially if the parts are not so useful for buildings if it came with lots of curved parts for shaping the city, for example.

I didn't buy Rivendell as it is not cost effective for me. I already have all the original LOTR figures but I did buy the new Arwen on BL for her white dress. I also bought new dual molded legs for the hobbits but I prefer the original torsos and especially the faces. I have used Rivendell official instructions to inspire builds from my existing bricks and I bought some of the fancy white parts and needed to get a load of penny a piece 1x1 tiles to copy the roof. So in that case, the minifigures were not enough to convince me to buy the set even though I quite like at least the facade and roof and the gazebo of the set. I prefered to pay £12.50 for the only one I wanted and probably about £60 on PAB/BL parts. And I still feel fine as a LEGO LOTR fan even though I never bought the set.

So if the new Minas Tirith is minifigure scale buildings that I like and contains decent figures, I'll buy it. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, then I will skip it and buy individual parts if there is anything that I want. If it is the only Minas Tirith they ever do, so what. If it doesn't fit my desires, then I don't want it at the price it is likely to be. I also skipped the BH sets even though they were LOTR themed. I don't care about being LOTR complete (even though I was after the original sets). I had the Umbar pirate ship but never really displayed it, so it got converted to a regular non-LOTR pirate ship and the LOTR unique parts sold off (stickered parts and sails) but the minifigures kept. So I now longer own that, and I doubt they will ever do it again, but I don't care as it didn't really go with what I wanted to display.

Edited October 16 by MAB

[Black Falcon]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Many people are, but then I imagine that those people were going to be unhappy with it anyway because of the price and wanted a reason to moan. Some people are unhappy about the shape not being spherical, but then to make it spherical would reduce the size massively or lead to a lot of unused space. Or to make it hemispherical would still take a lot of bricks when most of that would be hidden against a wall. They could have done a large sphere and covered it with a skin to make it realistic, but who would pay $1000 for a large beach ball sized grey sphere with no minifigures. Personally, I think the shape is fine, that is what you get when you take a slice through the centre of a sphere. But then the main point of the set is to show a series of vignettes of things that happened inside the Death Star rather than the shape of the Death Star. People whine about the shape, but if it was different they would have whined about something else on a set they weren't going to buy anyway. Some people were complaining that the minifigures were not the most accurate ones, which I can understand even though in some cases the parts are no longer in production. But then others were complaining they were not exclusive minifigures to this set. Yet if they had done that, there would have been complaints about exclusivity and paywalls, and having to spend $1000 for just one minifigure ignoring the rest of the parts and set.

I have also seen content from people that have bought the set and are happy with it. To me, that is more important than content from people that haven't bought it and probably were not going to buy it. I have also seen people waiting patiently in the LEGO store to take a close look at it, then go on to buy some other SW LEGO while they were in the store. Which I imagine is part of the reason that this set exists.

I think this sums it ups pretty well. There where a lot people that had a more negative view on it, but in the end even from those people many started to like it when they got more information about it or saw it live - and many bought it in the end.

3 hours ago, MAB said:

As to LOTR sets, I have seen people wanting a minifigure scale Minas Tirith set and I have also seen people wanting a microscale set. I don't think there is a huge majority either way so it cannot be said that most people want this or that. Hence my earlier comment about it being possibly the most divisive location, as whatever they do a reasonable number of people will be unhappy with it.

I think even while most people probably have a preference how they would like it, in the end it will just depend on whether they like the end result or not, and not if it is either one or the other style. Same as many that expected or wanted a bigger area of Rivendell fell in love with the Set and bought it in the end.

[Blazej_Holen]

19 hours ago, MAB said:

Many people are, but then I imagine that those people were going to be unhappy with it anyway because of the price and wanted a reason to moan. Some people are unhappy about the shape not being spherical, but then to make it spherical would reduce the size massively or lead to a lot of unused space. Or to make it hemispherical would still take a lot of bricks when most of that would be hidden against a wall. They could have done a large sphere and covered it with a skin to make it realistic, but who would pay $1000 for a large beach ball sized grey sphere with no minifigures. Personally, I think the shape is fine, that is what you get when you take a slice through the centre of a sphere. But then the main point of the set is to show a series of vignettes of things that happened inside the Death Star rather than the shape of the Death Star. People whine about the shape, but if it was different they would have whined about something else on a set they weren't going to buy anyway. Some people were complaining that the minifigures were not the most accurate ones, which I can understand even though in some cases the parts are no longer in production. But then others were complaining they were not exclusive minifigures to this set. Yet if they had done that, there would have been complaints about exclusivity and paywalls, and having to spend $1000 for just one minifigure ignoring the rest of the parts and set.

I have also seen content from people that have bought the set and are happy with it. To me, that is more important than content from people that haven't bought it and probably were not going to buy it. I have also seen people waiting patiently in the LEGO store to take a close look at it, then go on to buy some other SW LEGO while they were in the store. Which I imagine is part of the reason that this set exists.

As to LOTR sets, I have seen people wanting a minifigure scale Minas Tirith set and I have also seen people wanting a microscale set. I don't think there is a huge majority either way so it cannot be said that most people want this or that. Hence my earlier comment about it being possibly the most divisive location, as whatever they do a reasonable number of people will be unhappy with it.

It depends what comes with the Minas Tirith set. White and grey bricks are white and grey bricks, it doesn't matter what badge is on the box they were packaged in. Whether the minifigures are worth it also depends on what they are. If they repeat Legolas and Aragorn from Rivendell, and do a Gandalf the White and Denethor, I'd skip them as I already have figures similar to those. If there are just 1-2 useful figures, I'd buy them on BL or ebay and forget the rest of the set. If there were multiple figures that I wanted then I might buy the set even if the build was not very interesting for me, especially if buying the figures on the secondary market cost almost as much as the set. Then I'd either sell the build if it was not so interesting or use the bricks as a parts pack, but as I already have loads of white and grey bricks this is not so interesting especially if the parts are not so useful for buildings if it came with lots of curved parts for shaping the city, for example.

I didn't buy Rivendell as it is not cost effective for me. I already have all the original LOTR figures but I did buy the new Arwen on BL for her white dress. I also bought new dual molded legs for the hobbits but I prefer the original torsos and especially the faces. I have used Rivendell official instructions to inspire builds from my existing bricks and I bought some of the fancy white parts and needed to get a load of penny a piece 1x1 tiles to copy the roof. So in that case, the minifigures were not enough to convince me to buy the set even though I quite like at least the facade and roof and the gazebo of the set. I prefered to pay £12.50 for the only one I wanted and probably about £60 on PAB/BL parts. And I still feel fine as a LEGO LOTR fan even though I never bought the set.

So if the new Minas Tirith is minifigure scale buildings that I like and contains decent figures, I'll buy it. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, then I will skip it and buy individual parts if there is anything that I want. If it is the only Minas Tirith they ever do, so what. If it doesn't fit my desires, then I don't want it at the price it is likely to be. I also skipped the BH sets even though they were LOTR themed. I don't care about being LOTR complete (even though I was after the original sets). I had the Umbar pirate ship but never really displayed it, so it got converted to a regular non-LOTR pirate ship and the LOTR unique parts sold off (stickered parts and sails) but the minifigures kept. So I now longer own that, and I doubt they will ever do it again, but I don't care as it didn't really go with what I wanted to display.

I think that one of the reasons many people dislike the "Pancake" set is the price and what you get for it. That's simply it. It is ok to expect exclusive premium figures for the premium price. I am ok with that paywall. Because I get something that, in my eyes worth it (if I like it). The design itself is kinda ok for what it is, but to me, it's not appealing. I have no solution in mind to fix it, I just dont like it, hence dont buy it. End of story. 

And Minas Tirith is the same case. I will buy it even if it's expensive (meaning more than 500 USD), but I want to be satisfied with the product, as I am with Rivendell. For a premium price, I expect a nice product that doesn't require heavy modding... unlike The Shire set, which is kinda nice, but for the price, it's a poor design overall, with plenty of side builds that are far below what's acceptable for me as a Lego fan and consumer. It's not about efficiency for me; it's about whether I like it or not. I am a fan, and occasional builder, I like to have some sets intact on my display (own very very few of those) and some sets moded and integrated to my layout (I am medieval/castle kinda guy). 

So there is that. It's about feeling that you're getting something valuable for yourself that's worth the price you're paying. 

There is a major problem of expectations that many fans feel Lego is obliged to fulfil. Somehow me included in this case, since we (and I) are waiting for a set like this for over a decade...Would it be microscale? Would it be minifig compatible? If so, would it be the whole city (at least something that resembles the whole city) or just a Citadel or Main gate or whatever? Will it include new molds? How many? New prints? New characters? Would it be expensive? If yes, how much and for how many pieces, figs etc... Will it be a good design? Interesting build? These are the questions that we are xpecting that Lego answers "Yes definitelly"! Everything else would be let down. I guess...

 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Blazej_Holen said:

There is a major problem of expectations that many fans feel Lego is obliged to fulfil. Somehow me included in this case, since we (and I) are waiting for a set like this for over a decade...Would it be microscale? Would it be minifig compatible? If so, would it be the whole city (at least something that resembles the whole city) or just a Citadel or Main gate or whatever? Will it include new molds? How many? New prints? New characters? Would it be expensive? If yes, how much and for how many pieces, figs etc... Will it be a good design? Interesting build? These are the questions that we are xpecting that Lego answers "Yes definitelly"! Everything else would be let down. I guess...

 

Indeed, and the problem is that they cannot fulfill what everyone is wanting. There is no way they can do a decent citadel, courtyard and white tree and have the whole city in the same set. My own preference is minifigure scale buildings as that fits in with what has gone before. And if there is a market for architecture style sets or the pod-racer SW diorama set, then I'd prefer they do at least a few of them to create a series and do them well without trying to shoehorn minifigures in at the wrong scale (or maybe include one minifigure that is key to the location a bit like the Disney mansion 40521 if necessary). Minas Tirith, Edoras (not just the hall), the Shire, the Argonath, Helm's Deep, Isengard (not just Orthanc), Mount Doom or possibly even Mordor. All good locations to do a wider microscale version even if they've done minifigure scale versions.

[MKJoshA]

If you look at a recent set like the One Piece Going Merry ship, Lego has been experimenting with mixing micro scale and minifigure scale. On that ship it works well. Could Minas Tirth benefit from this mix? I think so. Give us a small courtyard and tree on top for fig posing and then have the rest of the city be microscale. It could look goofy or it could work. I'm holding out hope still that it'll work and they'll be able to please the majority of expectations. 

[RichardGoring]

41 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

If you look at a recent set like the One Piece Going Merry ship, Lego has been experimenting with mixing micro scale and minifigure scale. On that ship it works well. Could Minas Tirth benefit from this mix? I think so. Give us a small courtyard and tree on top for fig posing and then have the rest of the city be microscale. It could look goofy or it could work. I'm holding out hope still that it'll work and they'll be able to please the majority of expectations. 

I think you could probably do a nice Minifigures scale citadel on top of a microscale base. Some forced perspective, the like Peter Pan flying over London set. 

[psqidexslizer]

4 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

I think you could probably do a nice Minifigures scale citadel on top of a microscale base. Some forced perspective, the like Peter Pan flying over London set. 

This is what I’d expect, tbh. Obviously Lego isn’t going to make a minfigure scaled set that fully captures Minas Tirith. That would be far too expensive and they wouldn’t sell as many. But I also can’t see them just focusing on the Citadel. The shape of the overall city is too iconic and the three big scenes that take place at the Citadel are Faramir premature cremation, Denethor jumping, and Aragorn being crowned. Most of the big action scenes which people remember take place outside the city. Nor could they do a micro scale version. That’s not going to sell as well because it wouldn’t mesh with the last three sets. A downscaled lower section and disproportionately larger top is the best option, assuming they can actually pull it off.

[Black Falcon]

I do wonder if they would do a minifig scale set, with the citadel, houses of healing consisiting out of two levels - that way it could at least give people an idea about the overall shape of the city, without  the need to make a microscale version of the city.

[Artanis I]

Whatever it ends up being, just so long as there is a "Release The Prisoners!" GWP 

[Wardancer]

Interesting that after decades of custom and even knockoff Aliexpress Gondor figs offizial ones will be released. The design of the knockoffs was often quite beautiful, but with very bad quality. Time will tell how LEGOs design competes.

[Lordhelmet]

7 hours ago, Wardancer said:

Interesting that after decades of custom and even knockoff Aliexpress Gondor figs offizial ones will be released. The design of the knockoffs was often quite beautiful, but with very bad quality. Time will tell how LEGOs design competes.

Any thoughts on what you would want for official Gondor soldiers, assuming we can only get one or two new molds what would you want?  Thinking standard soldiers.

1)helmet

2)shield

3)new armor

 

(probably my priorities, I think the shoulder armor would work or the plate)

[Shroffy123]

Shield and armour. BW's paladin helmet looks very Gondor. So if only getting two molds, then shield and armour it is

 

[Ben S]

I hope they come up with something similar to what the talented Marcin Otreba designed here:

Stunning work! 

Edited October 19 by Ben S
Problems with image linking

[Moexy]

Wauw! Those would be the ultimate dream  I feel the helmet and shield need their own mold, the existing shoulder armour piece could be used in addition.

[Wardancer]

 

I would acually be happy if the LEGO ones turned out like these ultracheap asia trash ones, but in good quality and with some improvements. I have about 30 of these as a source for custom parts. The helmet I love and I have used it in many of my custom Elves, but painted over. The pictures show the bad quality. The shape of the the shield is downright unlegoish and therefore useless. The sword looks grotesk and overly detailled at the handle. The design of the cape is great but it is a useless terrible print. The silver bows and quiver are quite nice. I wish there were more different bows from LEGO. The print of the fig is an awesome design, but had numerous quality issues.    

But still, a nice design. This should have been made by LEGO decades ago. So yeah, please improve this.

 

Edited October 19 by Wardancer

[Lordhelmet]

1 hour ago, Wardancer said:

 

I would acually be happy if the LEGO ones turned out like these ultracheap asia trash ones, but in good quality and with some improvements. I have about 30 of these as a source for custom parts. The helmet I love and I have used it in many of my custom Elves, but painted over. The pictures show the bad quality. The shape of the the shield is downright unlegoish and therefore useless. The sword looks grotesk and overly detailled at the handle. The design of the cape is great but it is a useless terrible print. The silver bows and quiver are quite nice. I wish there were more different bows from LEGO. The print of the fig is an awesome design, but had numerous quality issues.    

But still, a nice design. This should have been made by LEGO decades ago. So yeah, please improve this.

 

As much as I would love a new armor piece (to emphasize the shoulders, but not as much as the D&D dragon paladin one),  I think the real win is getting a new helmet, and then hopefully a new sheild.  I think the current LOTR sword line up is sufficient. Curious to see if they do capes for any of the soldiers, lots of the soldiers don't have capes, but then the guards typically do.  Will be interesting to see what Lego did (assuming they are already in production if it is coming out in 2026).  

 

Also, yes should have been done a decade ago.  I am really hoping (not expecting in the least) some type of battle pack for Gondor/Orcs.  That would be nice, but I doubt it as long as LOTR only exists in the Icons range.

 

I also updated the teeth on the Balrog to all black, anyone else done this yet?

[Wardancer]

There is also a very recent attempt by the mighty Brickwarriors in colaboration with some dude:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DP4nxxiDlLY/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I cannot find out how to embed the picture.

You can clearly see the typically brickwarriorian shape language at the helmet. Very nice yes, but it lacks detail in comparison to the Asia trash variant. As does the whole fig. The shield, however, is perfectly fine. I would accept this from LEGO. Reminds me of the Forest Maiden shield...

 

Edited October 20 by Wardancer

[MAB]

12 hours ago, Wardancer said:I would acually be happy if the LEGO ones turned out like these ultracheap asia trash ones, but in good quality and with some improvements. I have about 30 of these as a source for custom parts. The helmet I love and I have used it in many of my custom Elves, but painted over. The pictures show the bad quality. The shape of the the shield is downright unlegoish and therefore useless. The sword looks grotesk and overly detailled at the handle. The design of the cape is great but it is a useless terrible print. The silver bows and quiver are quite nice. I wish there were more different bows from LEGO. The print of the fig is an awesome design, but had numerous quality issues.    

I went for the heavy armoured Gondor cheapo figures, just for the armour and helmets. Once the plastic flashing has been sanded off and the parts painted they look really nice. I use them with LBG torsos and legs (from heroic knight). I sold off all the figure parts and weapons and most of the capes that came with them which made the helmets and armour very cheap.

For any new genuine ones, I'd take a new helmet, a good shield and the standard breastplate if printed with the tree.