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Combining two Caribbean Clippers (WIP)


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18 replies to this topic  – Started by Admiral Blockbeard , Mar 01 2014 04:12 PM

#1 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:12 PM

Hello All,

I think we all agree that on these forums there are plenty of breath taking ships that use and create some of the most amazing Lego techniques to create some very awe inspiring ships. My ambitions are not of the same glory or grandeur and I am humbled posting this WIP. Before I begin I want to thank all the builders on this forum over many years who inspire and captivate my passion for Lego and its special relationship to naval and maritime themes.

My goal is simple. Ultimately I want to set up a (rather large) display of my favourite Lego sets. That is likely a future post, and will be much more ambitious than this. A part of this display however will include a ship of my own creation. A blue coats ship capable of besting the Black Seas Barracuda (BSB). To me the Caribbean Clipper or CC (Sea Hawk to some) never stood much of a chance. I have been fortunate enough to acquire 3 sets of the CC during my years of collecting. In the display I intend to have one built to instructions and combine two others to make a better challenger for the BSB.

While I am blown away by the techniques and stunning ships that builders here create, I am looking to maintain the look of official Lego sets, this means the ship will be using the same kind of techniques as the BSB and CC. The ship will be the blending of the two. Imagine if you will, the child of the BSB and CC. I have decided the ship will use the two mid-sections from the two sets, making it shorter than the BSB, however I would still like all four sails used, making the design a little squashed and challenging.

I have so far used LDD to get an idea of the basic construction as can be seen here. I reiterate, this WILL be in REAL BRICKS.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Much larger pics when public - HERE

A few notes. Working in LDD has limits, and I know I could have used MLCAD, but I felt like using easy "snap and click" building. This is why the new masts are being used in the example, and why I brick Built the Hull.

Those familiar with the 1989 sets will recognise a blend in the stem/bow of the ship. I do plan on giving the smaller ship more fire-power (three a side). I did this as I feel the navy would be more capable of having ships designed for pure warfare and the pirates with the BSB has a good blend of storage, size for crew, and fire power.

Now my main issues and what I am looking for advice on is the position of the three masts. She will be a Bark, with the first two masts square rigged, and the last being a gaff.
Very much like so... Posted Imagebut not quite.

My next issue is the construction and design of the cabin. While I want to have the Lego feel, I do not want to over use blue like the CC does, yet do not want the ship looking like a Galleon or Carrack. I also like the idea of having a sun roof as part of the poop deck.

I have currently been using the following as inspiration.
Great example - just a bit bigger...
I am in love, but again too big, and not the "Lego" look.

Any comments, help and criticisms welcome.

Edited by WhiteFang, 01 March 2014 - 06:16 PM.
Title update

Posted Image


#2 Sebeus I

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:30 PM

I think you spaced out the fore- and main mast pretty well on your LDD version,
If possible I would make sure the main mast is a bit taller than the foremast.
I'm honored that you refer to my frigate for inspiration Posted Image .


View PostAdmiral Blockbeard, on 01 March 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

My next issue is the construction and design of the cabin. While I want to have the Lego feel, I do not want to over use blue like the CC does, yet do not want the ship looking like a Galleon or Carrack. I also like the idea of having a sun roof as part of the poop deck.

One of my last ships I built before I went with angled sides for tumblehome  may be usefull.

Posted Image
Posted Image

As you can see from the stern it's a rather classic building style but nothing at all like a galleon.
I have more pictures of you need any (link).

#3 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 11:49 AM

View PostSebeus I, on 02 March 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think you spaced out the fore- and main mast pretty well on your LDD version,
If possible I would make sure the main mast is a bit taller than the foremast.
I'm honored that you refer to my frigate for inspiration :pir-sweet: .

I'm the one honoured for your reply. I love your ships and plan to (hope to) build a more complex ship like yours and CGH, (or is the CBlueH, CRedH... he needs to put the dye away) in the future.

The LDD has the masts only 12 studs apart. I think three masts was always going to look a little squashed. Seeing your example above it makes me want to add the extra mid section and have only two masts. But might get by with the two mid-sections and two masts.

This is nearly exactly what I want, only less cannon and the "Lego stripe side". The way you have the cabin is ideal. I don't think it will look to much like a Galleon. Will be interesting to try and blend the two looks and if it will come out okay. I also would want part or all of the gun deck open. Thank you for the advice so far. :pir-sweet:

EDIT:
Had a quick go based on the examples. Here is the result. Still only two mid-sections.

Posted Image
Position of the masts are a little better than I had expected. I feel the third (mizzen?) is a little close to the main.
I am rather happy with the level of the Cabin, I tried to keep it a similar hight of CC and of Sebeus examples.
Posted Image
Not sure if too much yellow?
Posted Image
I changed my mind about the blue cabin, it grew on me.
Posted Image
Something I really like is the blue storage doors. (windows)
Posted Image
This shows the sky light for the cabin. Not sure how historically correct. Also note the "2x6 shell" over the window. I think it gives a little more shape to the cabin area.
Posted Image
Not very happy with the doors. I am currently using a 2x4x5 door. You can also see here the front of the cabin area is currently only 4 slopes. I do want to make that area more interesting.

Folder with very big pictures when public.
C&C welcome.

AB

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard, 03 March 2014 - 04:42 PM.

Posted Image


#4 Sebeus I

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:15 PM

View PostAdmiral Blockbeard, on 03 March 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:


Posted Image

It has some 'rough edges' but as a prototype I like it so far.
I can't say for sure if a skylight constructed like that is historically accurate, I've seen something very similar in a video game...(Assassins Creed) but then again, I don't know how accurate that is either Posted Image .
It does look nice, keep it up Posted Image .

#5 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

View PostSebeus I, on 04 March 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

It has some 'rough edges' but as a prototype I like it so far.
I can't say for sure if a skylight constructed like that is historically accurate, I've seen something very similar in a video game...(Assassins Creed) but then again, I don't know how accurate that is either Posted Image .
It does look nice, keep it up Posted Image .

Thank you again, Sebeus. Was it Black flag? I don't recall the skylight in the game. But it might have entered my subconscious...
.
Could I be so bold as to ask what edges you think are the roughest. >this goes for all reading. Posted Image

In the meantime, another update.
Posted Image
Main difference to be seen here was the reduction of yellow.

Posted Image
We see some more cabin work and the flag added.

Posted Image
Different angle of the cabin fencing and other small changes.

Posted Image
I added the ladder and changed the poop deck a little to make this area more interesting. Also modified the doors and surrounding area.

Posted Image
Potential for cabin interior.

Posted Image
I think the bow/stem is missing something still, don't know what yet.

One more modification in LDD and then it will be time to place some of the first orders for the extra pieces.

AB

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard, 14 March 2014 - 10:11 AM.

Posted Image


#6 2maxwell

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:38 PM

I think this is really good so far, but I'm not a huge fan of the sails. The aftmost sail doesnt seem to have the right shape to be a spanker and gaff sail. I also feel like it would be better if it were flipped around to be like a proper lateen shaped mizzen course.

I've never seen a skylight like that, but I dont think it would be out of the question by any means. I like it.

#7 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

View Post2maxwell, on 04 March 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I think this is really good so far, but I'm not a huge fan of the sails. The aftmost sail doesnt seem to have the right shape to be a spanker and gaff sail. I also feel like it would be better if it were flipped around to be like a proper lateen shaped mizzen course.I've never seen a skylight like that, but I dont think it would be out of the question by any means. I like it.

Thank you for your nice words! I had a go at the switch like you suggested. (I would have the sail going the other diagonal, except it was too  much effort to swap the colours.) Here is the results below.Posted Image
Posted Image
At this stage however the sails themselves are not my main concern.

I want to order bricks soon so need to beside on the hull and cabin.I am unsure which of the following looks better, the black or the blue. (slopes leading to cabin)Posted Image
Posted Image

Any opinions appreciated.

AB

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard, 06 March 2014 - 11:41 AM.

Posted Image


#8 Kolonialbeamter

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:44 PM

Hi there,
I really like your ship, it catches the spirit of the CC and the early Pirates sets well. I would say finally a worthy warship for the Bluecoats.Posted Image
However, I'm not yet convinced by the stern, especially these yellow arch elements seem out of place from my point of view. The original CC didn't feature arch pieces (as far as I remember), which of course is no real argument against them, but more importantly, they don't match your use of slope pieces at the bow of the ship. And I think for a harmonious design repetition matters.
Also, be careful with the telescopes you're using, they don't exist in yellow. How about incorporating this flower as a design element? BSB featured them, so it would be 'authentic'. And I would use yellow (or black) instead of white for those handrail pieces at the ship's waist, for the door frames, and so on. I would only have that gun deck stripe in white. But maybe I'm too much of a purist.
Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to seeing your ship in real bricks, good luck for the final stage!
Oh, and I prefer your 'blue' solution, looks more harmonious and smoother to me.
Brick on!

Regards

#9 2maxwell

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

Personally I prefer the black. I think it maintains the "outline". That being said, I have to say that the black looks like dark blue in the image, and I think dark blue would look really cool.

#10 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:51 AM

View PostKolonialbeamter, on 06 March 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

I'm not yet convinced by the stern, especially these yellow arch elements seem out of place from my point of view. The original CC didn't feature arch pieces (as far as I remember), which of course is no real argument against them, but more importantly, they don't match your use of slope pieces at the bow of the ship. And I think for a harmonious design repetition matters. Also, be careful with the telescopes you're using, they don't exist in yellow. How about incorporating this flower as a design element? BSB featured them, so it would be 'authentic'. And I would use yellow (or black) instead of white for those handrail pieces at the ship's waist, for the door frames, and so on. I would only have that gun deck stripe in white. But maybe I'm too much of a purist. Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to seeing your ship in real bricks, good luck for the final stage! Oh, and I prefer your 'blue' solution, looks more harmonious and smoother to me. Brick on! Regards

Thank you for your feedback and nice comments.
Yes I agree, my Stern is a little off. It was a first draft and I was never sold on it. Will have another go at it.
Hmm the telescopes got under my radar. I had been checking most elements on brinklink. I might have to make the telescope gold or brown.
The flower is a good idea will look at using it, and will revisit the BSB's Stern.
I will post a comparison of the midsection railing, white, yellow and black. My feeling was as yellow it was too much. (Door frame only comes in White Red and Yellow. No Black)
The gun deck stripe is white. Looking at the pictures looks a tinge grey. I agree they should on this boat be white.

View Post2maxwell, on 06 March 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

Personally I prefer the black. I think it maintains the "outline". That being said, I have to say that the black looks like dark blue in the image, and I think dark blue would look really cool.

Haha, conflicting advice on the black v blue! Glad it isn't just me that found it hard to decide. Hopefully someone else voices an opinion and breaks the dead lock. I think I am leaning toward Black as from a distance it adds to the cabin being a "cabin".
Dark blue is beautifull. I would do the whole ship in it if I could. But I still want the early set look. When I do a different ship, you can expect Dark Blue to feature. Posted Image

AB

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard, 07 March 2014 - 07:18 AM.

Posted Image


#11 Captain Becker

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:47 AM

I think the black suits much more, otherwise there will bee too much blue IMO in one place. The prototype looks good, I have also thought that the CC should be a bit bigger as its one of my favorite LEGO ships. Posted Image

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#12 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:44 PM

View PostCaptain Becker, on 07 March 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I think the black suits much more, otherwise there will bee too much blue IMO in one place. The prototype looks good, I have also thought that the CC should be a bit bigger as its one of my favorite LEGO ships. Posted Image

Captain Becker

Captain Becker, Thank you for the tie-breaker and the compliment. The CC is a very beautiful ship I almost didn't want to change a thing on it, just make it larger. Slowly however I have wanted small things so I feel I own it.

I am sold on keeping the middle section black. Thank you all for feedback.

Now for round three the troubling handrail.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I have also done a quick rework on the stern. Still not overly happy with it. Hopefully it is a little more harmonious.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Comments and opinions welcomed.

AB

Posted Image


#13 2maxwell

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

I prefer the yellow rails.

#14 Sebeus I

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:44 PM

I don't like the yellow handrails at all, black handrails look much better IMO.
On the stern however I think yellow looks great.

#15 Kolonialbeamter

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:01 PM

Looking good, I like it a lot better without the arches. :thumbup: And the handrails work better in black :laugh:  

What do you think of this?
I gave it a quick shot, just a design idea, more yellow and less ornamentation at the stern. Somehow a little closer to 6274.

Regards

Attached Files



#16 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:36 AM

I could have sworn I replied to this last night! Must have closed the window and not clicked post!

I am using black handrails if it doesn't look right in real bricks it won't be too hard to change.

Now this stern. I like your amendments Kolonialbeamter, seeing your example it was a clear mistake to have the slopes interrupt the straight line of the stern. Thank you for taking the time and improving the design so much!

I also like the simple solution to the skylight, however I do prefer three windows over four or two. I see why you have removed the white from the body, however it is something I want to keep. The main reason I started the project was how nice the blue shutters look with the white frames (I took these designs from the BSB). Keeping the white however means I need to "splash it around" a little more and I think I have a solution with the stern. (I also feel it too much of a block of yellow). I also added in some more blue (the slopes above the cabin) I prefer it to the yellow. I think you may have changed the lanterns to blue in a SES style as the stern was very yellow, I still however prefer the black. The addition of the guns to the bow was a brilliant idea, exactly what it was missing thank you!

I am deleting the attached file in the earlier post (for attachment space management) and attaching the new one here.

A small issue I am facing is I built the cabin in MlCad, and the rear is not lining up with the proper hull piece. A small issue but changes my parts order around a little.

This is getting close now to me committing to real bricks. I will need it done by May. As I have been accepted as an exhibitor in one of South Australia's Lego users exhibitions!

ABAttached File  Boat5.lxf   70.39K   2 downloads

Posted Image


#17 Admiral Blockbeard

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:39 AM

UPDATE

My bricklink order came through.

Here is what she looks like near complete.

Posted Image

Posted Image

As you can see it looks like what I proposed in the first post. I am still a little unhappy with the distance of the masts. But in truth I am just in love my first real MOC ship. The back sail looks much better in real life than I had expected.

You will also note I moved it to the back of the ship rather than at the wheel. It is a much better distance back there, though not sure about historical accuracy...

Posted Image

The size fits perfectly between the CC and BSB! You also note that the two front sails have a similar distance between them as the Imperial Flagship

Posted Image

There is a small order still waiting till she is done. I also need to figure out how to get the blue windows with the lattice work. :/ I ordered train windows that don't have the "snap in holes" the others have over hanging bits not able to go with the bricks around the window.

When it is done, I will post it up in a new thread and give you a back story, description and name, Hope you enjoy the teaser. I promised she was coming in real bricks!

AB

WARNING brickshelf folder when open has VERY big photos.

Edited by Admiral Blockbeard, 07 April 2014 - 08:40 AM.

Posted Image


#18 Sebeus I

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

I like the stern view, a very classic ship, don't you have windows for the sides of the cabin?

#19 Kolonialbeamter

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:29 PM

Beautiful ship and very well fitting in line with CC and BSB. I'm in love with that classic feeling Posted Image
Concerning your 'window problems', according to LDD and Bricklink, parts #6556 (frame) and #2529 (shutters) should work. Part #6556 features shutter holes, unlike #4033 (older version).
And I think you should reconsider the position of the mizzen mast. The distance relations between the masts appear odd. I think it was normal that the distance between mizzen and main mast was closer than the one between foremast and main mast. If you lack space I suggest instead to replace the foremast and main mast a little further up front, if that is possible.
Anyway, great WIP, can't wait for the final touch!

Regards




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