Batman v Superman v Captain America Civil War

[Marvelfan120]

I've been thinking about why I like marvel over DC, especially in the case of Batman V Superman and Captain America: Civil War. I think that while the two films have similarities (heroes battling heroes), the interesting thing is there differences. Admittedly I know far less about DC than Marvel, so I invite DC fans to correct any mistakes.

The way I see BvS is that two heroes who don't like each other's style have a grudge match that ends when a larger threat arrives and they must work together. Civil War on the other hand is more a political tale wherein two teams face off over ideological differences.

I'd like to know why DC and Marvel fans like the stories they do. Let's keep discussion 'civil' and not let this defend into a our company is better cause yours sucks debate...

As for my own opinion I have always liked that Marvel, seemingly more than DC (forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong) ties their stories to real world issues... How do you deal with regulating weapons when the weapons are people? To me is a fascinating question, while is one guys method on good or bad or better or worse than another.

To be clear I plan to see both movies and hope to enjoy both and if I like BvS over CA:CW I will admit it.

[K-Nut]

I really don't think anyone can say Marvel does something more than DC when it comes to their films. There's plenty of people who say that Marvel's Cinematic Universe is much better than DC's, even though at the moment there's only been one DC film released. It's like trying to judge the entire MCU on Iron Man alone; even though Iron Man was a great film, it's definitely different from what the MCU ended up becoming.

DoJ is about two heroes who don't like each other's style, but that's where the ideological difference comes from. Superman says he's here to help the world, but he doesn't answer to anyone and doesn't believe he should answer to anyone but himself. Batman sees this as a threat (and even though he's a vigilante himself) decides to call Superman out on it.

The only Marvel movies I can think of that really call out modern issues would be these latter two Cap movies. Now don't get me wrong, TWS is one of my favorite movies, but again that's trying to judge the entire franchise by the content of just one or two of its films. That's why I don't say Marvel is better than DC or DC is better than Marvel when it comes to their films. At the moment I don't think they're comparable. Maybe in a few years once we've got a couple of DC films that aren't Zack Snyders, we'll be able to see what kind of franchise DC's universe will be.

[Marvelfan120]

DoJ is about two heroes who don't like each other's style, but that's where the ideological difference comes from. Superman says he's here to help the world, but he doesn't answer to anyone and doesn't believe he should answer to anyone but himself. Batman sees this as a threat (and even though he's a vigilante himself) decides to call Superman out on it.

This is what i wanted to focus on. I think any conversation about MCU VS DCCU is silly. You're really can't compare the two and if you do, it's rea;lly more about opinion than anything else. I'm more interested in comparing the next film from each DoJ and CA:CW. I mean it may be premature because the films aren't out yet, but we do know some things because of the comic versions. As stated, I feel the biggest difference is that the CA:CW starts out with a wider vision. DoJ seems to me to be more of a personal battle between Batman and Superman. Both have their qualities and appeal to different people. It seems to me that, at least in the comic universes, this is a central difference between the two (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not as well versed on DC). You have DC which seems to focus on individuals and marvel that seems to tend more towards social issues.

[xboxtravis7992]

The thing about Civil War that it has which interests me more are the characters. I feel like we have followed the MCU since 2008, and as such the stakes are much higher.

But DC's stuff... I can't help shake the feeling that their current strategy is "copy Marvel's moves." Which is a real shame! The Nolan Batman films were close to perfect; it seemed like DC could have become the "high brow" superhero filmmaker. But BvS just feels like to much to soon. Plus this is only the second film in their franchise, I don't have any attachments to the characters like I do in the MCU.

[K-Nut]

This is what i wanted to focus on. I think any conversation about MCU VS DCCU is silly. You're really can't compare the two and if you do, it's rea;lly more about opinion than anything else. I'm more interested in comparing the next film from each DoJ and CA:CW. I mean it may be premature because the films aren't out yet, but we do know some things because of the comic versions. As stated, I feel the biggest difference is that the CA:CW starts out with a wider vision. DoJ seems to me to be more of a personal battle between Batman and Superman. Both have their qualities and appeal to different people. It seems to me that, at least in the comic universes, this is a central difference between the two (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not as well versed on DC). You have DC which seems to focus on individuals and marvel that seems to tend more towards social issues.

The fact is that Marvel has gotten to the state in their MCU (Phase 3) that they're able to do all this with established characters that the audience knows. BvS seems more personal because it's a bit more concentrated; we've only seen this Superman once and we have yet to meet Batman, Lex, Wonder Woman, and Alfred. Civil War has the benefit of having characters like Iron Man and Captain America who have shown up in five or six movies over eight years.

I mean, If you think about Marvel their early films were all concentrated, but now we've gotten to the point where Falcon can show up in Ant Man, Hulk can be in Thor 3, and the Avengers can be in a Captain America movie. As we get more and more familiar with the world, the easier it is for the walls to be torn down between properties.

But DC's stuff... I can't help shake the feeling that their current strategy is "copy Marvel's moves." Which is a real shame! The Nolan Batman films were close to perfect; it seemed like DC could have become the "high brow" superhero filmmaker. But BvS just feels like to much to soon. Plus this is only the second film in their franchise, I don't have any attachments to the characters like I do in the MCU.

There is a bit of copying Marvel on this, yeah. But I think a lot of that is DC took so long to get their shit together that they need to rush it a little bit in order to remain relevant. I think the concept of BvS was a great way to do that; have the two biggest DC characters cross over early on to establish that this is a growing universe. It's when they add in Wonder Woman and Aquaman and Cyborg that it gets to be a bit too much.

I do believe that DC is going to be different from Marvel, however. Movies like Suicide Squad are films that would never exist in the MCU, you know? From what we've heard of the DCCU, it seems like it's going to be a much more individual thing; every film is going to be its own film with its own flare, whereas Marvel does try and interconnect things a bit too much IMHO, as seen in AoU.

[Marvelfan120]

The fact is that Marvel has gotten to the state in their MCU (Phase 3) that they're able to do all this with established characters that the audience knows. BvS seems more personal because it's a bit more concentrated; we've only seen this Superman once and we have yet to meet Batman, Lex, Wonder Woman, and Alfred. Civil War has the benefit of having characters like Iron Man and Captain America who have shown up in five or six movies over eight years.

I mean, If you think about Marvel their early films were all concentrated, but now we've gotten to the point where Falcon can show up in Ant Man, Hulk can be in Thor 3, and the Avengers can be in a Captain America movie. As we get more and more familiar with the world, the easier it is for the walls to be torn down between properties.

I can see your point. Part of the reason i started the thread was to learn more about DC in general.

There is a bit of copying Marvel on this, yeah. But I think a lot of that is DC took so long to get their shit together that they need to rush it a little bit in order to remain relevant. I think the concept of BvS was a great way to do that; have the two biggest DC characters cross over early on to establish that this is a growing universe. It's when they add in Wonder Woman and Aquaman and Cyborg that it gets to be a bit too much.

I do believe that DC is going to be different from Marvel, however. Movies like Suicide Squad are films that would never exist in the MCU, you know? From what we've heard of the DCCU, it seems like it's going to be a much more individual thing; every film is going to be its own film with its own flare, whereas Marvel does try and interconnect things a bit too much IMHO, as seen in AoU.

I think accusing DC or Marvel of copying the other is pointless at this stage... Have both copied a ton of ideas from the other YES, does anyone really care enough for it to matter... i think the the answer is a resounding NO. I don't know who planned their next movie first and don't care, i personally like that the two movies are in some ways similar. It's kind of fun for a geek like me to get to see how the two companies express conflict between their heroes :P

[Zilcho]

Yeah sure DC is playing catch up, but as long as it works I don't really mind.

Are they copying Marvel? No... Not in any way I see.

I can hardly judge the two cinematic universes right now, but as far as I can tell it looks like, as someone mentioned, each DC movie will have a different feel.

As of right now I like the idea presented in the trailers of a world in which some are rejecting this alien, in which unaccountable, God-like power is challenged.

For Civil War I just don't personally feel the same stakes. I mean sure, Captain America is a powerful guy, but in reality he's saved the world twice over the last few years and has never put anyone in harm's way. Superman on the other hand led Zod to Earth and fought him in a manner that led to many deaths. The prospect of an unaccountable Superman is much more interesting than an unaccountable Captain America.

Now don't get me wrong, I fear a lot for BvS.

It may well be overcrowded but I'm not too worried about that in reality. Really I am worried they will only touch the political issues on the surface. I really want the movie to address the nature of uncontrolled power and actually RESOLVE it. If batman and superman are fighting and then the baddie turns up so they unite, I will be dissapointed.

This is the trap CA:TWS fell into; Cap was saved from having to choose between his government and his morals because it turned out it was all Hydra's plan. It would've been much more satisfying if he had to have made a decision without one of the sides being labelled EVIL in big bold writing.

But anyway, like I said: these are just musings. I hope BvS will be as good as i think it will - due to the rewrites of Affleck and Terrio. Until then (only 25 days!!) I will withhold any strong opinions.

[Sam892]

I have to kind off echo the idea of DC copying Marvel slightly. But lets be honest the two companies have always copied each other.

Hawkeye is a copy of Green Arrow

Thanos is a copy of Darkseid

Deadpool started out very very, similar to Deathstroke

Bucky is a copy of Robin

The list goes on, and it does go both ways. I'am likely however the differences in Tone between the MCU and the DCU though. Age of Ultron while very funny, suffered from having humour in what should be serious moments. Due to that I'm looking forward to a more serious movie in BvS. It keeps it fresh and ultimately helps both companies out, you can have darker DC and more happy go lucky Marvel.

We've had 8 years of happy go lucky so Darker feel might be a welcome change. There are problems, I hate Doomsday (as I do most 90's crap) and having Aquaman and Wonder Woman shoe horned in is worrying. But it could be great.

Civil War looks great too and its certainly more serious looking, but again theres a lot of new characters who we haven't really seen. Marvel might have the same problem as DC, they're introducing Black Pantherplus bringing back Scarlet Witch and Vision who we haven't felt much time with, plus Antman who despite having a great solo outing not everyone saw. Oh and Spider-man is joining the world. Thats a lot of cogs that have to fit in place.

[rodiziorobs]

I agree that both movies feel a little overstuffed. I am rooting for both to be good movies.

I feel like CA:CW will be good. It will also be pretty safe. I know the script, the direction, the production design, etc. will be perfectly enjoyable, but it may not be much more than that.

I have enjoyed myself at every Marvel outing so far...even their misses aren't bad movies. But sometimes I feel like they should be swinging for the fences more--and they even hint that they might be (GOTG, AoU)--but they never go even a bit beyond Kevin Feige's protective reach. While this has fostered a truly connected universe, has also, I think, kept some films back a bit.

On the DC side of things, I'm a little torn. I grew up with BTAS on Fox as a kid, and Batman was (and still is) one of the heroes I enjoyed the most. I felt like Batman Begins was pretty much a perfect Batman movie (wasn't a fan of the other two), and I think Affleck can deliver something similar or even better. I would like to see Goyer involved a little less, or not at all.

MoS, on the other hand, I had a hard time getting excited about. I didn't see it in theaters, but when I finally rented it I realized it was a pretty good movie. Also, pretty unmemorable. My wife and I started discussing it during the end credits (something we often do), and realized we couldn't remember details about a movie we had just seen. It wasn't bad, but it didn't really command my attention, either.

BvS has a chance to do just that; to challenge tough philosophical/political questions while also delivering a slick and fun ride. If it can do the first, it might become a new favorite for me. If it can only do the second, it's no better than the average Marvel. Which can still be completely satisfying, but where Marvel plays it safe, this is DC's chance to really nail it by digging deep into the questions it has raised for itself and paying of with more than just action.

For Civil War I just don't personally feel the same stakes. I mean sure, Captain America is a powerful guy, but in reality he's saved the world twice over the last few years and has never put anyone in harm's way. Superman on the other hand led Zod to Earth and fought him in a manner that led to many deaths. The prospect of an unaccountable Superman is much more interesting than an unaccountable Captain America.

Interesting; I had never thought about it that way.

This is the trap CA:TWS fell into; Cap was saved from having to choose between his government and his morals because it turned out it was all Hydra's plan. It would've been much more satisfying if he had to have made a decision without one of the sides being labelled EVIL in big bold writing.

This exactly! While TWS is probably in the top three of most everyone's Marvel list, in the end it plays it safe for a clean (if perhaps hollow) victory. I am hoping this kind of scenario comes up in CW, but is more ambiguous.

Bottom line: I know CW will be at least good, but I want it to be great. I know BvS has all the makings to be great, but I don't know how hopeful I am that they can pull it off.

Edited March 1, 2016 by rodiziorobs

[NXS7]

I have to kind off echo the idea of DC copying Marvel slightly. But lets be honest the two companies have always copied each other.

Hawkeye is a copy of Green Arrow

Thanos is a copy of Darkseid

Deadpool started out very very, similar to Deathstroke

Bucky is a copy of Robin

The list goes on, and it does go both ways. I'am likely however the differences in Tone between the MCU and the DCU though. Age of Ultron while very funny, suffered from having humour in what should be serious moments. Due to that I'm looking forward to a more serious movie in BvS. It keeps it fresh and ultimately helps both companies out, you can have darker DC and more happy go lucky Marvel.

We've had 8 years of happy go lucky so Darker feel might be a welcome change. There are problems, I hate Doomsday (as I do most 90's crap) and having Aquaman and Wonder Woman shoe horned in is worrying. But it could be great.

Civil War looks great too and its certainly more serious looking, but again theres a lot of new characters who we haven't really seen. Marvel might have the same problem as DC, they're introducing Black Pantherplus bringing back Scarlet Witch and Vision who we haven't felt much time with, plus Antman who despite having a great solo outing not everyone saw. Oh and Spider-man is joining the world. Thats a lot of cogs that have to fit in place.

Ultron of Brainiac

[Marvelfan120]

I'd like to echo some of few things and add to them. I love to see characters philosophical/political ideologies challenged. At the same time, I feel that CA TWS challenged cap more than some think. He was forced to realize that the group he trusted was not what he thought. I feel this sets up Civil War nicely. Just because a government or international body is policing superheroes does not mean they will be used properly. Governments and international bodies can make mistakes and be corrupted. i do hope to see more of the political side in BvS as well.

As for the tonal differences, I feel that if DC copied marvel's tone, or vice versa this is the copying that would bother me, as far as some plot elements being borrowed, everybody does that. I enjoy marvel's movies and TV as well as some of DC's offerings (like Arrow, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow) part of what I enjoy about the DC offerings is the fact that they are different... If it were otherwise, I doubt I'd give DC's stuff a second look... If all I had to eat was my favorite food, I'd get sick of it pretty fast.