Waterbrick Down

"Now listen here Bub, just because Beaky here's a tad smarter than you, doesn't mean you have to go home nursing wounds as well as an empty pocket. No?" Boris swung his mace experimentally before bringing it crashing down on the Street Thug's head from the front row.

One could gain access to both classes, by completing certain Marketplace quests and having great reputation with the Bonapartes respectively, but one could not use both classes at the same time. Marketplace quests will appear on the sign-up board just like other quests and will list access to the class in the reward. Same thing with the Bonapartes, except one quest generally involves 1 level of reputation and "Great Reputation" is equal to two. Generally Bonaparte reputation is easier to find than access to the Artisan class.

It was more an issue of tailoring, while the smithy in 96 allowed for a random effect and weapon transformation, the current one allowed a player to build a weapon and armor too specific for relatively market price. In order to maintain balance for the rest of the game one should be careful when asking heroes to design their perfect weapon/armor much less ask them to pay market price for it.

There was discussion of marks a while back but it was deemed as to complex at the time. I'd be interested in artifacts that could impart a new oath, sort of like how Minstrels can learn new songs, but the more oaths you add the less the class is about changing between offense and defense. Updated some of the terms and added the additional oaths at higher levels concept. Any other thoughts?

If you're afraid of showing hostility towards Boris, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, seems like a reasonable response. If I ever start another character I've got an womanizing Elvish snob sitting on the sidelines currently.

Boris continued in his conversation with U'or, "I heard a little of the recent unrest going on in the country, but am not very familiar with it's history or culture. Your lot in life does seem a fortunate one." The vampire listened in on the conversation between Shawe and Elba before falling in behind the two as they made their way to the hovels. "So what is Guffington's interest in the city? Why did he decide to settle here?"

I'd like to make sure Sandy is actually aware of the options that are being sold here and is OK with it as alot of these options are going to affect the balance of the game beyond this single quest. We're talking about specifically crafting a tailored weapon and armor for market cost. Most folks wait years to even find a weapon or artifact by chance that they can tailor toward their build. I can't say I'm a fan of most of what's being offered here to begin with, chances to inflict negative effects aside from Poison or Bleeding, custom built immunities lower than the cost of scrolls and imbuement, extra SP to artifacts... It's a min-maxer's dream and in my opinion I think it should stay that way.

"'No man can pledge himself to two overseers. He shall be devoted to one and spurn the other, or despise the one and be enraptured with the other. Ennoc and Olegia cannot be served at the same time.' The sixth of Matthias stanza twenty four." Boris quoted in a matter of fact voice. "Like wise one cannot hold the Hinckwells and Shadeaux in the same regards. Both have done their fair share to see to the improvement of trade in this city and some money has made its ways into the coffers of the temples, though mostly for show, but I believe it is the house Shadeaux that works for Eubric's true good. After all, being immigrants themselves I'm sure they are quite familiar with the lot of the wandering individual who finds their way to the shores of this island seeking a better lot in life. I can't speak for all who fly under their banner of course... How came you under Guffington's employment, did you meet here or in your homeland?"

Take 2. Name change, I'm totally digging Vindicator. Removed the Blinding ability from SUBDUING HIT Vindicator (Trained by certain religious orders) These holy warriors embody the justice of their deity dwelling upon this world. · Additional Health: +15 · Weapons: Vindicators often wield bladed two-handed weapons such as Longswords, Greatswords, Scythes, and Axes, they are also able to wield shields. · Job Traits: Intimidation (See Black Knight), Devine Focus – Vindicator’s WP doubles if they do not use a shield, Oath – After hitting a target the Vindicator may swear an oath that grants them certain abilities · Battle Style: Avenging: Vindicators fight in a manner so as to protect their allies and dole out punishment in the name of their deity. 1. SHIELD: Supernal Smite: The reality of the Vindicator’s deity asserts itself in a terrifying display of power dealing damage to the target and the target of the Vindicator’s current oath equal to four times the Vindicator’s weapon power added to their level. 2. SUBDUING HIT: The Vindicator deals damage equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Additionally the Vindicator may choose to swear an oath against the target. 3. HIT: The Vindicator deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Additionally the Vindicator may choose to swear an oath against the target. 4. SHIELD BASH/DREAD VISAGE: The Vindicator fails to attack the target with their weapon, but instead bashes their shield at the enemy, causing damage equal to the power of their shield and stunning the enemy. If the Vindicator is not using a shield the target quakes and becomes fragile from the Vindicator’s holy anger. Additionally the Vindicator may choose to swear an oath against the target. 5. DEFLECTED DAMAGE/Damage: The Vindicator is struck by the opponent’s attack. The Vindicator’s shield has a 1/6 chance of blocking the attack completely if they are using a shield. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Vindicator is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Oaths: After a Vindicator strikes a target they may choose to swear an oath against their enemy. Only one oath may be sworn at a time. If the Vindicator strikes a new target they may choose to end their previous oath and invoke a new one. Oath of Protection: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Vindicator steps in and takes ½ the damage. Oath of Retribution: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Vindicator steps in and deals a Free Hit equal to their Level. ---------- Artwork for style ideas: Example 1, Example 2, Example 3, Example 4 Thoughts on Vindicators of higher levels gaining more oath usage, i.e. Level 40-50 a Vindicator may have two active oaths of the same type in use, Level 50-60 a Vindicator may have three active oaths of the same type in use, etc? Also concerning Khorne's question, I'd be fine either way. I like the idea of certain religious orders training characters to be Vindicators of a certain deity it establishes a relationship between a player and the world a QM has created, but I can see the point about availability of certain deities, in which case maybe we as QM's should be more versatile on the religious orders we allow our parties to interact with.

Boris rejoined his companions wiping away a red stain from his mouth, he pocketed the gold and added his inquiry. "If the next jobs anything like the first one, I hope you have a better back up plan."

I've gone ahead and added an index of all the versions of the Expert Classes we've created over the years as well as a few thoughts on class creation in the third post of the Expert Class Discussion Topic. Quite some fun stuff looking back at how some of the classes developed over the years.

Sorry, no shield = no deflected damage. Champion seems a little too generic, sort of missing that divine retributive aspect, just my perception though.

Have you seen some of the titles of characters these days?

I've got another one that's in the works that takes that idea into account. I'll see about incorporating it. I'd actually like to catalog all the ideas we've seen so far, seems like we sometimes reinvent the wheel. Might edit my first post to include an index, don't know if there's any chance Sandy could delete the first 2 since LEGOman273 has been banned for a while now. On the subject of the Avenger (anyone got a better name?) how does the balance between offense and defense seem. Do people think one style is more effective than the other? As we advance I've noticed SP is becoming a much more important stat so I wanted to make the offensive style as equally appealing, but I'm not sure if I went too far.

Probably the reward for certain religious orders, sort of like how the Rito can train Winged Warriors. So a character would be associated with a certain deity, i.e. an Avenger of Ennoc, or an Avenger of Tarok.

Arguably Sage could go in either Support or High Damage, Shaman on the other hand falls into the High Damage because it can be consistently and strategically depended upon to deal a high amount of Damage, granted it could be argued that it consistently heals more other cleric based classes, but if we look at the way most players have played the class they tend to stick to offensive roles. So as I mentioned, I've been working on a new class and I thought I'd present it: Avenger These holy warriors embody the justice of their deity dwelling upon this world. · Additional Health: +15 · Weapons: Avengers often wield bladed two-handed weapons such as Longswords, Greatswords, Scythes, and Axes, they are also able to wield shields. · Job Traits: Intimidation (See Black Knight), Devine Focus – Avenger’s WP doubles if they do not use a shield, Oath – After hitting a target the Avenger may swear an oath that grants them certain abilities · Battle Style: Vindictive: Avengers fight in a manner so as to protect their allies and dole out punishment in the name of their deity. 1. SHIELD: Supernal Smite: The reality of the Avenger’s deity asserts itself in a terrifying display of power dealing damage to the target and the target of the Avenger’s current oath equal to four times the Avenger’s weapon power added to their level. 2. SUBDUING HIT: The Avenger deals damage equal to two times their weapon power added to their level, the target is also blinded during the next round. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target. 3. HIT: The Avenger deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target. 4. SHIELD BASH/DREAD VISAGE: The Avenger fails to attack the target with their weapon, but instead bashes their shield at the enemy, causing damage equal to the power of their shield and stunning the enemy. If the Avenger is not using a shield the target becomes fragile from the Avenger’s holy anger. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target. 5. DEFLECTED DAMAGE/Damage: The Avenger is struck by the opponent’s attack. The Avenger’s shield has a 1/6 chance of blocking the attack completely if they are using a shield. 6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The avenger is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Oaths: After an Avenger strikes a target they may choose to swear an oath against their enemy. Only one oath may be sworn at a time. If the Avenger strikes a new target they may choose to end their previous oath and invoke a new one. Oath of Protection: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Avenger steps in and takes ½ the damage. Oath of Retribution: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Avenger steps in and deals a Free Hit equal to their Level. Key Idea: Oaths, dual roles (offensive vs. defensive). Design Notes: Going after a class whose mechanics and strategy are dependent upon the party make-up and their allies taking damage. Dependent upon their equipment and the oath they use they can either be geared towards damage output (double weapon power, Oath of Retribution, Dread Visage) or damage mitigation (high SP, Oath of Protection, and Shield Bash). The class is based upon a similar one found in D&D, but the idea of dealing damage or negating it when an ally is attacked is actually a trademark among defensive classes in RPG's.

1. Doable, just an idea if someone's looking for creating something different. 2. Shaman drains health but only on a SHIELD roll, I tried to organize the classes by how they function consistently. The Shaman isn't a consistent health drainer, though it might be interesting if it became one, sort of like how the Druid is similar to cleric but has it's own twist through nurturing. 3. Same as Shaman, Wardens absorb hits but not consistently. To have a specific role, one should be able to strategize around it with some certainty, i.e. barbarians can always be strategically depended upon to do more damage than other classes. Wardens can't be strategically depended upon to absorb hits. 4. I'm putting a class together right now actually.

Boris watched as the last rat was finished off. As the party dusted themselves off the vampire expended 3 ether to heal them all to full health before grabbing the big rat and dragging it behind one of the bookcases. He gave Grady a steely glance. "Sometime's you've got to work with what you've got. Excuse me a moment."

What would be the difference between choosing a class and then choosing either an offensive path vs a defensive one and just choosing an offensive class vs a defensive one?

"Good shot. You feeling up for one more try, Keliim?" Boris kracked his knuckles and focused his healing on the barbarian from the back row.

Nyx/XX is one of the more influential relationships in Heroica. The people voted.

Maybe towards the beginning, definitely more of a big sister/little brother thing now.

How would it stylistically distinguish itself from the witch?

Brings to mind the Hybrid classes of D&D, my 8th Level Fighter/Ranger/Bard/Wizard/Druid Halfling Thief. Perhaps instead of looking at how can we combine combine classes and in essence their combat roles, we could look at what roles are missing or lacking? So excluding base classes. High Damage (via favoring, elemental modifiers, self buffing, extra critical hits) Raider Battle Mage Assassin Hunter Berserker Shamaan Chi Monk Beast Warrior Infiltrator Weather Mage Winged Warrior Barbarian Chieftain High Defense/Survival (via self buffing, hiding, Shield skill) Paladin Black Knight Mystic Knight Warden Artisan Regulator Skirmisher Guardian Knight AoE attack/Crowd Control/Summon/Pet (ability to consistently hit multiple targets) Evoker Necromancer Dragoon Canooneer Decamon Drafter Marauder Archmage Sylvan Ranger Support (Healing/Buffing) Druid Sage Alchemist Minstrel High Cleric Enemy Debuffer (Consistent Negative Statuses) Witch Sorcerer Harlot Scholar Physical Based: 19 classes Ether Based: 18 classes Some interesting mechanics/roles that have been suggested or might be interesting to see: An Enemy Debuffer version of the Minstrel A Support class that transfers health from enemies A Support/High SP class that absorbs hits for allies, similar to Skirmisher A Support/High Damage class that does damage when allies are damaged

The vampire smiled as he bashed in the head of the filthy beast. Boris popped open his remedy before moving over to Karl from the back row. "Choke this down and see if you can skewer the smaller one."