Hinckley

I think you're hoping to cover the voices of reason with your walls of text. What? I thought if she was a shapeshifter like I was then she would be the bomb if she targeted the real bomb. I didn't want Petrus targeting her in that case. I can't believe you believe Petr's defense. That is ridiculously confounding on top of everything else. He said he left town before the Night Action phase and that's clearly a lie.

My oh my oh 'nother lie-oh. Looks like you posted your absence about 12 hours into the Night phase. That gives you...let me count...1,2,3,4............12 hours to get a Night Action in. Framing doesn't cause you to appear like you targeted Toki. My what? Congratulations to everyone who has decided not to lynch Petr, the Truth–Teller! You just told me in private that my result must've been tampered with but then you voted for me.

OK, I will: Since you couldn't get us to believe Petr had a Town action and just didn't trust us. Then you couldn't get Cranebeinn and me to lynch Petrus. And now you can't save Petr by convincing people I'm Scum and getting me lynched. And now you just absolutely need Petr to survive until the night phase. That has to happen at all costs and despite all logic. Has anyone else weighed in on my idea that lynching Petr and blocking me does the same thing without getting Petr to a night phase. And have you pointed out to anyone that the protection you are supposedly capable of and the blocking action and the bomb claim really makes your math a narrow margin of possibility? Yes it does. Lynching him would show us what alignment he is when he flips. If he's Town (which he isn't) then I'm Scum. There you go. Name them. With the roles we know we all have, what would go wrong? But the bomb wouldn't be targeted, one of us (I can't kill anyway but allowing for theory) can be blocked and the remaining two targets, one of them gets your protection. My theory? I don't feel like I have a solid theory. I am afraid that you are suddenly 3 times as active, depserately trying to prove that I'm lying about Petr. I'm concerned that you want him to make it to the night phase so badly that this is your fourth strategy to achieve it! But you're not considering how hard it would be for any Scum to figure out who to kill. Look at the numbers. Even if there is one kill of a Townie tonight and Petr is Town, which he isn't, but for your sake, there are then five people left tomorrow. Maybe one is the SK, which we've seen no evidence of. 3 Town, 1 SK, 1 Scum? You keep saying I'm the remaining Scum working with the SK. That would leave three Townies to take care of the evil duo! No. For your math to work, Toki has to be Town. Who else would a possible target be for you to protect?? Thank you for pointing this out. Yet another inconsistency. Hey, Petrus, Canute thinks you're a Serial Killer and you're working with me to kill the whole Town. But he can trust you to kill Petr, right? And told everyone that I was suspicious of the tracker to protect myself in case one of you was Scum. It's being cautious. Any Townie should know that, Canute. Unless you are stuck in Scum Perspective. Are you saying that you specifically pointed out that you'd be leaving before NA deadline? It is possible to send NAs in before a day ends, you know. Especially if your team has already agreed to something. I already pointed out how your going–out–of–town announcements pinged me. At one point, you dropped in to say something like "Back to family matters!" which was a trip to the zoo. Do you see anyone else feeling the need to post their day trips? I can't post for eight hours! Should I warn people when I go to sleep? You're irritated? Oh no!!!

You just told me in private that you had to have been framed...

Is that like figgy pudding? I don't really need to talk to you. I know you're lying. You know you're lying. I just have no idea what you did to Toki. But Canute seems to want to give you an opportunity to do it again. And by convenient... it's proven I'm the tracker, a tracker at least, I found the "protector", the "vig", the blocker and the investigator. Granted the blocker and investigator, I tracked them after they claimed to me. Which is what Scum would do with their tracker role, right? Scum always try to verify Townie claims.

You contradict yourself again. Why would this vig you think is on my side suddenly kill who you ask them to? Your entire plan hinges on that and yet you insist it's the way forward. You can't not trust her and have your entire plan hinge on her doing what you ask her to. Why do you want Petr to make it to the night phase? Why can't you lynch him and then block me or Pandora? There's no difference. Why are you resisting it? Lynch Petr, block me or Petrus. Why can't you do that? It's so odd that you're theory hinges on Petr being Town and you're still willing to kill him. Lynch him if you want him dead. It guarantees we'll see him flip. Then block one of us who you are concerned about. Then we see a voting pattern and there's no chance of Petr using his Night Action. Furthermore, for kills, who is to say that you haven't protected the right person on the nights we didn't see a kill? Why don't you think that's possible? That's another place your math doesn't make sense is that you have a protection action and one of you claimed bomb. So if Petrus and I wanted to kill someone, one would be blocked and one would have to guess who you protected, Cranebeinn or Toki. So, the chances of your incorrect math even being close to playing out are ridiculously slim.

Sorry. Your full explanation of your suspicion makes me feel much better. I'll point out again, and I know I've repeated myself a lot today. I'm concerned about Canute's illogical argument about not lynching. Anyone agreeing with him, what is the difference if we lynch the lying Petr and block me? It would not allow two kills with my SK/Scum/vig buddy, Petrus. It would give you exactly what you're saying you're getting from waiting for the night phase without letting a liar with a Night Action to have another night phase to do whatever it is he does. Why does he think the vig he wants to lynch and can't trust be trusted to kill Petr? Does he think the SK would count towards Scum numbers?? I need to look at what he's said there... Lynch Petr, block me. Even this, the Town still outnumbers the Scum. But if you block one of us, the math isn't right anyway. And you do have a blocker. Lynch Petr, block me.

One of us would be free either way. You have no answer to that. Lynching Petr and blocking me equals killing him at night. Your theory relies on their being two kills yet there's a blocker. You need Petr to survive to the night phase for some reason. Lynch Petr, block me. Same result with what you're suggesting. If you can't trust the vig, why are you thinking he'd do what you say anyway? This is what makes no sense. You're contradicting yourself. And the people listening to you should realize this. You're not making any sense. Not lynching doesn't make sense. Lynch Petr, block me. Same exact result as what you're suggesting. Canute has posted less than 10 posts every day and then suddenly, 30 today. Desperately trying to undermine the simple fact that Petr is lying. And his theory is convoluted and his insistence on not lynching contradicts itself. Cranebeinn and I didn't agree with his idea to lynch the vig. Then nobody is voting along with him to get me lynched. So now he's desperately trying to convince the two people paying attention to let Petr live to the night phase. If he doesn't trust the vig, why does he think he'd kill Petr? If he thinks we're both killers, why does he forget the fact that we have a blocker who he trust to be telling the truth? Blocking one of us doesn't give us the math he is coming up with. Lynch Petr, block me or the vig. It's the same result as what Canute is suggesting except it doesn't get a know liar to another night phase.

You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum. You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum. You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum. You're wrong. I'm the Town Tracker. I tracked Petr targeting Toki. He is Scum. Can you explain what makes you Town that everyone should be listening to you? Your behavior the last couple of days is highly concerning. Dave is Scum. Lynching him will show that I'm right. I don't like your desperation to make it to the Night phase with him alive. Because as many times as you explain it, it does not make any god damn sense. Why aren't you blocking one of us then, you megablocks?? Lynch Petr, block me.

How would I win if I was Scum, which I'm not, and he is lynched. And why are you off the hook? What makes you Town? And for the last time, I refuse to stick to trusting you or not because I have no reason to trust you or not trust you so, as a Townie should, I will continue to question you and be suspicious of you.

Because the vig hasn't spoken to anybody. So what makes you think he is on board? And why is Canute suddenly the authority on everything. I caught him targeting Cranebeinn on Night Two and he claimed, immediately without any caution, to be the protector. Wouldn't Cranebeinn have made an excellent framing target that night? I have thought Canute to be Town this whole time and trusted him almost more than anybody else but let's look at the things he has done. He never discussed his targets with the Town block. He has twice tried to get the vig/SK lynched, even today when I have a result on Petr. He is way too confident in his baseless theory on me. His theory is only based on me being Scum in a previous game: not a reason. I have evidence that Petr has lied and Canute is trying to get my lynched instead of Petr. Those of you blindly following Canute should look more closely at him before moving forward with any plan. I'm not sure about anything but that Petr is lying and that makes him Scum. But I'm feeling more and more suspicious of Canute's behavior and since he seems to have the audience of Cranebeinn and Agnar, it's a concern that you guys don't seem to be questioning him at all. Protector is a very convenient claim for Scum to make and we've seen Scum claim it before. There's no way Scum would win tonight if Cranebeinn's theory is correct. If Petr is Scum, which I'm sure he is, and you lynch him and see what he flips, what would that make you think of Canute? This makes zero sense to me. How does Petr being killed by the vig, who you were ready to lynch...twice now...alleviate your concerns of me having a kill? Explain to me how that works. And if you think the vig, who you also think is the SK, is on board with you, just ask him not to kill anyone and have me blocked. Whatever. Petr is lying. Cranebeinn's concern was that I didn't tell you before he had claimed vanilla to me. Now you see he claims vanilla. That's a lie. He targeted Toki. Resisting a lynch is confounding! Lynch the liar. Why wait for a night kill? Why would anyone let you wait for a night kill and get a player with an Action who lied about having that Action another opportunity to use it? What if Canute has been sitting on the Scum kill and is waiting to use it tonight and having the vig kill Petr and him kill someone else sways the numbers in the favor of the Scum? Not lynching makes zero sense. I have a result. We should be testing it now with lynching. That way we know Petr's alignment, you can be damn well sure of my alignment and we'd have a voting pattern. That is how things should work, in my opinion. I don't see how it's different than waiting for the night phase. Zero sense. Zero sense. Lauga's ducked role makes more sense than waiting to kill Petr at night. :wacko: *huh* *huh*

I am the tracker. And I'm not lying. I'm very happy you're back, Scum.

Without the vig on board at this point, the best bet is to lynch Petr and block the vig at night. It's the same as having no lynch and blocking and killing Petr. I don't understand the resistance to lynching today. I don't trust it. Even if we just agree to have the blocker target Petr tonight we have no guarantee that the Scum won't be able to kill one of us. But you seem to think they don't have a kill ability at all. You think if we kill and block Petr, there will be no other deaths? How can you be sure of that? We have no idea why they haven't been killing, I doubt there were only four, so we can't assume they won't kill one of us tonight. I don't know how close the numbers are. I doubt that it's 4 to 3 right now but I don't like the resistance to losing Petr. If one of the people pushing for this is Scum and I happen to know one has made a very Scummy claim, what could they need Petr alive tonight for? I do not trust any of this. Wouldn't it be telling if Petr came up as Scum and we had a voting pattern to look at today? Cranebeinn has already expressed concern in Toki's lack of a vote.

My suggestion to block the vig is to assuage Agnar's fear that we have the potential of losing three Townies (or four) if we lynch Petr. If people are afraid that was Crazy–Canute is saying about the vig and I slaughtering everyone at night then blocking the vig should make everyone feel confident that we won't lose anyone tonight.

Explain to me how I led the last two lynches. I voted for you and said I would switch to Ragnvald if we needed to get a lynch. As I stated, the town block thought lynching Ragnvald would get us the most information so I switched. It was Canute and Cranebeinn I was agreeing with when I switched my vote. I thought my gambit with the Scum on the writeboard wouldn't have gone the way it did if Tarr was Scum. But Canute thinks I'm putting too much into what was said on those boards and Cranebeinn agreed with him. So, explain to me what you mean when you say I led each lynch. For the amount of discussion that went into Night Actions and lynches, it's ridiculous to look back and say "Look what Pudding–Head made us do!" Is there permanently a guest reading this thread?? Now, it's two guests.

I did not send him a PM that you were suspicious. He sent it to me first. I had considered contacting him before he contacted me because...why was that...oh, right! You wanted to kill the vig after I gave you a result on Petr. After a weak thought that Petr had a role but didn't trust us. Two subsequent Scummy things that made us both suspicious. Is he telling you I PMed him?? Because that would not be a representation of the truth. Why did I PM you about trusting him? Hmmmm...maybe to discuss his behavior. Maybe to gauge more about your weird reactions. Any number of reasons. Just trying to figure people out. Are these more reasons I'm Scum? According to him, you PMed him about me before he even contacted me about you? So megablocking what? We're doing what Townies should do. Question why they trust who they trust. That guest is reading this topic again...

OK. But I can't megablocking kill people anyway. Because I'm not Scum. If it's all the same to you then, let's block the vig, lynch Petr. You might want me to realize you have concerns but do my Actions contradicts facts you've received from the host? My concern is one or both of you seem to want Dave to get to the Night phase again to use whatever the hell Action he used on Toki again. I don't know what it is but I would feel better if he wasn't given the opportunity to use it again. It's not random. You said you needed the blocker fully on board. As I type that out I realize that could mean he wouldn't agree to the plan. I took it at first to me that he might not really be the blocker or also be Scum and not block who he said he would. But now I've talked myself through that one. Either way, I've pointed my finger at everyone multiple times throughout the game trying to figure out who the Scum are and I'm not going to stop and I'm not sorry for it. You don't learn things without poking people. Finally, Toki is here. I guess we only need to wait four hours while he reads me and Canute repeating ourselves for 3 pages... And Cranebeinn, you know a lot of what went on and you're doing all of your talking behind the scenes. It'd be nice to hear what your thoughts are on everything.

This is your biggest concern right now?

Incorrect. I'm the town tracker. I can't kill. It doesn't explain at all why we haven't see a Scum kill. It does. He targeted Toki last night. Knowing what I know, there's no better place for my vote.

But it's only a theory and I know your theory is wrong so I'm going to keep saying it. Our theory about Lauga explained everything too. Was it right? Oh...let me think about it. NO! But we all thought we were ending the game. You're wrong again. I'm Town. I'm the tracker. Petr told me he was vanilla. I targeted Petr and learned that he targeted Toki. That means he lied. Why would he lie? Because he is Scum. Also, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DID. ALL I KNOW IS HE DID SOMETHING WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF NOTHING WHICH IS WHAT HE TOLD ME HE COULD DO WHICH IS A GOD DAMN LIE! There's a math problem here...

That's the opposite of what Canute is saying. Canute is saying that the "vig" and I will kill everyone tonight. You don't trust the blocker either? I trust my results and the knowledge that Petr is a liar. I don't trust people. I trust the results and my own experience. I have no reason to trust anything but what I know to be fact. Petr is a liar and it is highly concerning that I'm getting resistance to lynching a person I know to be a liar. That makes me uneasy about you and Canute so I'm less concerned about your doubts than why the two of you are resisting lynching someone who has not only proven useless throughout the game but I know is lying. Why is there so much PMing going on when Canute has pretty much spilled all of the roles? You're waiting to hear from Toki? You're afraid that we will reveal too much to him? What are you guys saying that can't be said in public? Did I miss your vote? You might have heard me say this somewhere...I don't know! I know that he lied. If he's Town, what could he possibly do?

So, you're so confident because I was Scum in the last Ragnarok game. Gotcha. Metagaming reason. No basis in fact. I'm not lying. You should check your confidence because it's totally unfounded. Petr targeted Toki and I'll say again I have no idea what he could be doing. All I know is we're all confused why there hasn't been a Scum kill for three days and Petr lied to me. We should be worried about what he could be doing and not let him do it again, whatever it is. The more I think about it, the more I think it's weird you went from thinking Petr had a Town Action, to wanting to kill the vig to an unprecedented and confident read on me as the most diabolical mastermind to ever play this game. And I don't like how Agnar wants to let Petr make it to the Night phase. That's three people I don't like their behavior from today. And three remaining Scum (though I can't imagine there being seven Scum in this game) with four Townies minus one Townie equals...Loss for the Town. Again, a lot is making me anxious right now. Yes, I want to lynch Petr. I know he targeted Toki meaning he lied to me. The way to get an answer is to lynch him. I don't think there were seven Scum to start with but you and Agnar both seem to be trying to get Petr to the night phase. Even being confoundingly confident about something you have no evidence for.

Why are you so confident I'm lying? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since I am absolutely telling the truth. But, seriously, why? Again, it reeks of desperation.

You're avoiding my question. What would you do if you were the tracker and Petr had told you he was vanilla and you found him targeting Toki, the Scummiest player in this game. Could be. That's the first time I've heard you not be adamant about it. Could be, but I'm not. I haven't lied about anything in this game, save for the things I said to the Scum or to rile them up. He lied to me. Why would someone who is Town do that? Why would someone professing his trust in me and trying to proxy his vote me lie to me? Do you have an answer for that?

Since Petr didn't something that none of us could wrap our mind around what it would be, we should all be afraid of him being able to use it again. And your immediate suggestion was that he didn't trust us to claim to us. Now you're not even considering that if I'm Town, he's Town too. Why the change of heart? I can't kill anyone with my tracking action and I will not vote for anyone but Petr, since–as I've mentioned–I saw him targeting Toki after he told me he didn't have an Action. Why would I vote for anyone else knowing what I know? Imagine you were me and Petr told you he was vanilla and then you saw him target someone, what would you do? Lynch the vig? I'm seriously asking, though, what would you do if those were your circumstances?