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I have to say, as regrettable as it was taking you out the way we did, I was quite confident that you were scum by the way you posted on day two. I figured a townie would defend their position a little more, and at the very least try to get in touch with the person publicly planning to take you out, and proclaim that since you were town, that the people trying to get you killed must have scum in their midst. It probably wouldn't have made a difference in your survival, but it would have set the clockwork in motion for the next lynches. With the scum kills and lynches, I was about 99% sure with boywonder, rufus, VolcanicPanik, Nightshroud, Bob and you (those being the ones without the investigation).

Badboy, will you be doing player feedback? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this motley crew

Zakura told me the masonry would be passed along, but it wasn't, and seeing him post his role, it didn't say it there either JimB's role wasn't a role cop, it was a Follower, but I'm still a little unclear as to how that role works, and the difference between it and a role cop. So, as much as we were potentially capable of clearing four a night, that wasn't going to happen. Zakura recruited Pie to be safe. I had already investigated him. And each scum team had a role cop, so they could target much more efficiently, and yes, I was blocked twice in by the scum, and marked for death. Luckily I was protected at that point. I think the investigative abilities were matched and balanced here. You survived this game and "won". Did that show effort on your part? Basically, you slept your way to victory.

A lovely thing. If you've taken a tab of LSD, I'm sure it would be a revalation, but for the rest of us, we can just respect the skill and imagination involved in this:

Basically, you asked me who was alright, or something along those lines, and there was no reason to ask that sort of thing as a vanilla town. I was pretty much clear as town, so making your vanilla claim was fine enough, and there were a lot of lazy town players, so just doing a little would have set you above. The approach I would have taken is this: do most of what you did, be friendly and non-aggressive. But, instead of asking for any info at all, you make an uneasy alliance. "Listen, I'm vanilla, so all I have is my votes, and the few people I'm talking to, plus what we read in thread. I believe you when you say you are working with the investigator, so I'm mostly just going to vote with you unless something comes up. But, please, do me a favor and let me know how sure you are with the vote, since if you're not sure, I can just guess the scum myself What I can do though, is feel some people out if you like, maybe we can catch someone in a lie. I've talked to XYZ players, and I can probably talk to XYZ players, since I talked with them a bit last game. If there's anything you'd like me to do, let me know " So, offer what little you have, and ask for little in return, and that helps build up trust. I said something to you last game about how I can only judge based on what I'd do, and as a vanilla townie, that's what I'd do. Congratulations on your new son

In that case, I really don't get the strategy, but we all have our own methods

No worries. This may frustrate you to hear, but there was a chunk in the middle of the game where I really didn't have time to read through the day thread much. On a Sunday I was fine to, but on weekdays, I had a day job, in the evenings most nights I had a few private lessons, and most of the players PM'ing with me. Add that to the fact that family comes first for me, and I wasn't able to keep track of things. I didn't explain this at the time, and it would have been less confrontational if I had but I expect that people can remember their own posts and find them better than others can. I roughly remember whatever I wrote in thread, and can usually find it relatively quickly, whereas it takes forever to comb through others' posts. I do 100% agree that you participated a lot more than other survivors, and for that you should be proud. It's much better to play than to survive. I agree that roles shouldn't be assigned that way, though we've seen it happen in the past (*cough* Hogwarts *cough* Gotham). It rewards bad play, assuming roles are based on characters when they should be independent. At the same time, a host can get away with it from time to time, I guess, since the experienced players shoot down players who propose theories based on rolls. <ah, taking me back to Day One of my first hosting game here, when some players proposed that a member of the hospital staff must have been the killer since they had access to the broom closet Luckily that was shot down quickly enough> Thanks I made an effort not to take over, and to work with people this game, which made me a little blabbier than usual, but luckily I blabbed mainly to town. You would have been in the group PM the next day if you'd lived. The assumption with Bob was that he was blabbing to Etzel, who would have killed you, and we didn't see it as all that suspicious that Bob was in there. When I did truly see he was scum, it was quite clear, and his confiding with Etzel was as unlikely as Nightshroud's confiding with Rufus. Ironically, you would have been in a lot better position if you hadn't told me Jim's role. The first decision after you blabbed that was to never tell you anything I didn't have to. So, the only real info I gave you (that I remember off hand) was that Rick was a trusted vanilla, when I asked you to protect him. It's a really puzzling thing how people read the threads. Basically, on day one, you and MetroiD figured me for scum, while at the same time, Cornelius Murdock, Cecilie, and Zakura had me for town, with the two telling me their roles, and Zakura betting his game on it, since he would die if he targeted a non-townie. So, there were very different interpretations of my behavior. As I said earlier, if you hadn't targeted me, I would have caught Rufus early on, you wouldn't have been night-killed, Tammo would have lived another day, Rufus couldn't have killed iamded and zakura, the masons would have survived longer... Amazing the difference an action makes I don't think town had that many investigative actions, at least compared to other games here. I was bullshitting a bit in thread when I said I had three. One was the cop, my action, and the other two were the hider and the mason, who both would die if they targeted scum. Alopex's ability wasn't so useful. And the role cops were scum roles here. So, I know the Agents have some legitimate gripes, but that wasn't one, in my opinion. I'd rather see the Discussion thread used for educational purposes than for gaming outside the game thread Panik claimed to zakura, who just told me what he knew when he recruited me to the masons. Panik never blabbed to me, though he had a funny attitude when he realized I was going to feed him to the dogs over Legonator's town reading. It's amazing the amount of frustration I had when that result came up. I knew I had to get some scum quickly after that!

Generally, if the kill is passed along, it replaces other actions. I expected that, and it caused some confusion about the number of remaining scum. But every host is allowed their prerogatives, and if that is how you established it before the game started, that's all well and good. I think you know at this point that I can seem irritable at times, but if I wasn't enjoying myself, I wouldn't play. It's good to be able to vent frustration without too much being made out of it

I PM'ed you asking you to double-check that was the right result, and there was no problem No worries, enjoy your vacation. Even if you work 60 hours a week, the next few months will be a vacation after this I'm not a fan of one scum getting three night actions in a night, but I won't complain about the end results

Why did that fail? And night 7, I investigated Swils, why did that come back as town if he's always out of temple?

None at all. I explained to you in PM how tired I was of metagame complaints in thread. If anything, I'm really happy to see that some of the hardcore players in this game started out in my Mafia School game You guys did the work, but I was happy to be there at the beginning

to everything above, including your plan to kill me night one I just read on your scumboard. 100% fair

I'm sorry to hammer on a point, but that's not metagaming. When the scum killed Kiel night one, that was metagaming. I haven't read your writeboard, but I expect it to be overflowing with metagaming. It seemed to me at a certain point that you'd given up, and then shifted to increasingly implausible theories. Did you actually expect anyone to buy into the notion that you had taken over the vig role as the red ninja, or that you were the new investigator? The timeline is a little fuzzy to me at this point, but at the point I wrote that, you didn't seem to be saying things that were plausible. Maybe it was just me. After that, you started sending PMs, and it seemed you were trying again, sending PMs that could muddy the clarity of the next day's vote, so it seemed that you'd got back into it. But, it seemed that in the middle that you'd given up on things, and were having a laugh, and again, at the end of the day, you seemed to have a laugh about it. That was my outside perspective, so I can't say what was going on in your head. And even if you were having a laugh, that's just not my style of play, so I'm sorry to give you a hard time for it. Anyway, that wasn't metagaming in any shape or form. I was voting for you well before that. Killing Kiel night one was metagaming, and you should wear it with pride on your sleeve None at all, power to you

I don't think you need to inform the host of that, unless it's going to be a conflict. I've stated before that for me, I couldn't play with my live-in partner, but that's personal, and I don't think being a real life acquaintance of a game player is a game-breaker. If they were the same person on two accounts, yeah, that would be a problem.... I know you were frustrated, but there still was an element of luck to it, as I had investigated you first night. Instead, I was blocked, and Zakura vouched for you ("safe and trusted" were his words), and for a while, I fed you way too much town info. So it seems like, at least in this case, things balanced out for you. As for the Agents abilities and goals, I can't say. I know you were frustrated after killing Legonator on night two, so I was glad we had great accuracy after that, or I'd be feeling like a real megablocks right now. I'm glad we were an effective team How did you know? I only figured it out when Rick was asking me, "What exactly did Bob say?" and in the time it took me to copy-paste what he wrote, I saw him call me out as the investigator, which I hadn't admitted to him (I admitted about nothing to him, after he exposed JimB to me for no reason). I don't know what he did in thread to call attention to himself. Somewhat unfortunately, I was in contact with almost all the other 31 players in this game. I can't remerber who I didn't contact with at this point. The major downside to that is it's really hard to sort through the lazy townies and the coasting scum. I'm glad I didn't stick to that list of six I'd made

Yebisu

Also, I need to tell Brickdoctor: Sorry, but... We were wrong (the five voting for you), and unfortunately I realized Bob was the better target too late in the game day. Between Rick and I, the assumption was that you were probably a godfather, for reasons I explicitly stated in thread (vocal without clearly helping). So, I implied you'd be investigated (around day seven) to you in private, but I was never going to do that since I couldn't trust the result. It's a crappy situation, but your (in my opinion) hostility to discussion made you a character I couldn't figure out. One day, our stars will align. One day... I can imagine how you felt, and I hope it isn't discouraging for you That's pure mental Then Badboy needs to explain why I got a Town reading on you. It was a real frustration to me, and another reason I was dreading a day nine. I was worried we'd get to day eleven. The first Town alliance was me, Cecilie, and Cornelius Murdock, with Rick as a satellite. Pie was brought in, and later Flitwick, who was a rational voice when I wasn't feeling rational. JimB would have if scum hadn't taken him out the night they had. And MetroiD was cooperative by the half-way point

Let me just say, I'm relived to see it was a conclusion today I was really worried that there would be a day nine, hunting out that last secret agent. I'd expected five of each. For the most part, I had a good time with this game, and no hard feelings to anyone who crossed paths with me. I was impressed with the scum activity of fhomess and Scubacarrot in particular. I cursed Badboy before day one started, since I figured I'd have a target on my back. I don't mind dying early, but it sucks for the town if the investigator is taken out early. To my allies: On day one, I outed myself as the investigator because was very worried about the aggressive gambit TinyPies pulled in the last game. I ended up saying I'd outed myself to two players, while actually it was three: Cecilie, Rick, and Cornelius. Cecilie ended up outing her hider role, and Murdock his vig role, and at that point, we became really effective on early days. Rick, I'm really glad you got recruited as a mason on day three, because I was getting really worried you were a scumbum. But, after that, you carried on your perpetual role, the voice of reason, and you were the one to target Scubacarrot, who I may have let slide. The Nakayoshi (translated, best friends ) expanded to include Pie and Flitwick. Relatively speaking, I was glad Pie was taken out since Flitwick was protecting me. To my foes: MetroiD, sincerely, no hard feelings. I think there was a friction of play styles at hand. I want to say, day one, your assault on me (however you want to name it) was not a great play. If I were scum, you would only be playing your card to early, and unnecessarily since I had been trying to work with you. And since I was town, you were only frustrating me, and drawing unreasonable attention to me. I tried to investigate Rufus day one, but was blocked because Legonator thought I was scummy because of you. If I hadn't been blocked, we would have known on day two that Rufus (and his loose-lipped partner Volcanik Panik) was scum. Zakura's deception would have failed, the town would not have lynched Legonator over Volcanik Panik, Tammo would have been saved... Major game changes if you hadn't been so confident on day one. The accusation didn't get to me, it was the confidence behind it. On the plus side, it probably kept me alive on night one or two, as scum worried I was being watched, so on that level, I can say thanks All in all though, I put it down to a difference in styles. And yes, you owe me a beer Etzel: I was sure you were scum around day two when you hypothesized that scum would vote late on day one to make a counter-argument that scum would never do that etc etc. Red lights started flashing, I wanted you out on that post. It was way too misleading to me. Scuba: You played well, Rick called you out. I explained to you the rationale, but Rick pitched it to me. fhomess: You were scummy in PMs, and you tried to fish me Nightshroud: You lied! I think I explained it in thread and in private enough Bob: Regarding your day eight... Personally, I don't enjoy it when scum give it up under pressure when being voted out, and I gave you a few jabs about it. In retrospect (that is to say, someone kind of pointed it out to me in a matter of words), maybe some people get a kick out of the deceased goofing off in thread. I honestly don't, and it strikes me as a football team deciding to do karaoke in the second half since they're losing the game anyway... But I tend to think of mafia as a game to seriously play. So, I didn't enjoy it, but it was a dick move of me to take away from others' enjoyment of what you were doing, including yourself. And for that, I apologize. Also, your defense was too much roleplay: "This is how you repay me?" That screamed scum to me. The rest of the scum, I don't remember! The game had a few lopsided first few days before it hit a good equilibrium. Thanks for a good time, badboy

No Fahrenheit in Japan, JimB. May as well be Greek

I'm looking forward to it

The funny thing about rules is that if you actually think they are important enough to complain about people not following, you should follow them yourself. Personally, I'm a big supporter of metagaming, and have been for a long time. Though I wouldn't classify it as lynching someone based on their avatar or their job (ie. super-spy). That behavior is more along the lines of not comprehending the basics of the game. I realize you're just goofing around at this point, so this is not a serious lecture, but it's something to consider for people who want to bring up the metagaming thing (which isn't even a rule) for the umpteenth time in the future.

I live in Sapporo now, but I was in Naha for most of the 00's. Not with the military though.

Quoting you is pretty low. "Joyride"

maybe you are I'm trying to save "Yakuza's" (sic).

What is this 'Eurobricks' of which you speak? Are we not Yakuza, born and bred in the land of the Rising Sun? I know of no rules but which those grandfather has laid out for us, and am confused as to how you think there could be any other.

What the hell are you talking about? How did I metagame? Where is it against the rules anyway? I do find it distasteful for scum to act ridiculous as they wait out the clock though, and that isn't going to change