Deathleech

The micro builds are definitely creative and look good, but this could use more minifigures if it were to be more like an official advent calendar.

Like most others, I also prefer picture reviews. I can just skip right to the parts I want to see such as the minifigures, or a certain part of the build without having to listen to anyone explain it or worry about them glossing over it in a video review. It seems like there are a lot more details in the picture reviews and I love the highly detailed pics.

Hmm, interesting. Right now they aren't that much cheaper than the gray wargs, only about $0.80 a piece. The brown wargs are about $1.50 cheaper than the white though. Maybe you already bought all the super cheap white wargs out? Lol.

I doubt that much. Grima is in a $200 set and he is currently going for $16-20. Dain is in a $60 set so he will probably fetch anywhere from $5-8 like King Aragorn or Mouth of Sauron. He might be really expensive at first, but his price will level out after a few weeks.

This is so true. So Lego expects kids to buy a $130 Erebor and a $30 Lake-town set to re-inact Smaug getting shot down, but they don't expect kids to buy DGB for $70 and Bo5A for $60 (which combined are the same price as Erebor alone and still $30 cheaper than Erebor+Lake-town)? That makes no sense. I understand Lego needs to include main characters in multiple sets because kids aren't going to be able to afford every set in a wave or line, and also older sets go out of print. However, it's a harsh reality kids won't be able to get every last character in minifigure form either. I know when I was younger I missed out on getting TONS of characters from my favorite action figure lines like TMNT and Ghostbusters. And then you have the kid that only gets one Hobbit set ever. Should we stuff every set full of every main character because he can't get any other sets? Then what happens to everyone else that DOES buy every set and has 20 Legolas and Gandalfs? Where do you draw the line with including the same characters over and over? I think generally Lego has done a very good job with their Middle-Earth themes when finding a nice balance between main characters and grunts. Gandalf is probably the only character we could have done with a little less, and even he isn't in THAT many sets when you compare it to other themes. I just think this last wave could of been truly spectacular with a little more planning. It's been said by myself and several others how this final wave could have went from mediocre to amazing and it would of required very little investment on Lego's part. All they had to do was move some things around. They could have made the largest $130 set more focused on the Bo5A and change the smelting mines build to the gates with dwarven statues. Have the current four dwarf line up in it, plus Thorin and Bilbo, bear Beorn, one generic orc in armor, Bolg, and armored Thranduil. Then make the $30 Lake-town set into a $60-70 set, keep all the minifigures it had except give us the SDCC Bard and keep the build, just add Smaug. Take the $30 slot and give us Dain, an Iron Hill Dwarf, 2 armored Elves, and 3 armored orcs with a small Dale ruin piece. The large molded creature could be a ram, but if too expensive another eagle or warg in a different color would more than suffice I am sure. Heck, Lego even could of nixed some of the dwarves in the Erebor set (except Fili and Kili), and had one or no orcs in Lake-town to save some money. There. Lego literally would of had to do 3-4 new prints this way and MAYBE 2-3 molds. Really though, the elven helm could replace Thorin's crown (Thorin could use his normal hair), and the orc helm could replace the hair (or even use an existing helm from a previous Castle them). This would of taken minimal effort on Lego's part, made more sense, and made this last wave go from a 4-5 on a scale of 1-10 to a solid 8.

Apparently he did so in an Empire Magazine interview. I haven't read the piece myself, another poster was talking about it. The rams and even Bolg I may buy this for, but not Beorn. I remember seeing that long theatrical poster with him standing over Gandalf in his bear form which was for the AUJ film two years ago. Maybe he wasn't shown exactly the same there as he ended up looking, but he was close enough. Lego also had the bear mold from City done quite awhile ago, this could have sufficed as bear Beorn. A simple new print on it is all it would have took and we know prints are fairly cheap and easy for Lego to do. Lego hasn't done a $130 priced Middle-Earth set for some time. The last two waves only had a $100 set and a $70 set as the most expensive. I would say it's time they hit that price point, even if sales may not be so hot. The waves are fairly small at only 4 sets each so I am sure a bigger set is acceptable. I wouldn't be surprised if Lego opts not to do any polybags this time around. They didn't do any for the second LotR wave so polybags aren't a guarantee, especially if the Middle-Eath themes really are selling as poorly as we think. Also I know Lego can mix and match existing pieces to create a "new" polybag like they did with the Mirkwood Elf, but what are they going to use for an Iron Hill Dwarf? Any dwarf torso or head would come from a unique character. That would be like throwing Aragorn's head on a Gondor Soldier, I don't see Lego doing it. I think if we DO get a polybag, the most likely candidates would be the orc and either Thorin or Bard.

That's the thing though. The elves and men are in good standing with each other before the Bo5A, but they don't always fight together. When Dale is destroyed and Lake-town attacked by Smaug, the elves aren't rushing to the humans aid. After the Bo5A is over, I am sure the humans and elves went their separate ways. They didn't all go back home together and live as one group. The goblins and wargs on the other hand are ALWAYS seen together. You never hear or see Wargs in the Hobbit or LotR without orcs accompanying them. I will say in the Hobbit they seem to be more sentient beings where as by the time LotR roles around they are little more than mounts. We could argue all day about this, but it's pointless. Tolkien never explicitly states the five armies referred to in the Bo5A. At best he hints it's the dwarves, men, elves, goblins, and wargs, but that makes little sense from a logical stand point since then the bats and eagles should also be considered their own armies and that would make it the Battle of (Six or Seven) Armies. At any rate, PJ has already stated the five armies are dwaves, men, elves, orcs, and eagles, at least in his movies. Since the sets are based on the movies it makes sense the Bo5A set has at least one representation per faction in it.

I would love a more detail oriented fantasy theme. A lot of the same building styles used for a number of LotR and Hobbit sets (Helm's Deep, Bag End, Orthanc), but with brighter colors and Lego's own made up factions. Orcs, elves, undead, dwarves, and humans would be a must. Dragons and trolls would be an added bonus. Basically a mix of the LotR and Fantasy Era themes I guess.

Well each eagle was the size of several men, so 100 eagles is like a few hundred men (if not more, unless you are basing it on Lego scale then one eagle is barely as big as a minifigure ). Also the Bo5A wasn't really that big compared to some of the battles in the LotR. You say 100 eagles isn't a lot but there were only 500 Iron Hill Dwarves and around 400 men in the battle. That's the point I am getting at. Before the battle even started the dwarves, men, and elves were all their own armies. They were all about to fight EACH OTHER. It was only when the goblins showed up that they aligned and decided to face them as a united force since they recognized the danger the goblins posed. The goblins showed up with the wargs and bats and had been working with them for most of the novel. In LotR, the wargs are used as mounts and hounds under Sauron's or Saruman's army. The eagles are never aligned with anyone. They are described as good neutral. They will often come in and help the free folk, but they are never asked for help nor is it expected they come because they are creatures that have their own free will. With the Wargs, they don't just show up out of the blue by their own accord. They are always with orcs or goblins prior. I know it's not called the Battle of (insert number) Armies, but the Battle of Pelennor Field still had a certain number of armies partaking in it. Rohan is considered one of those said armies despite arriving late to the battle.

The Battle of Pelennor fields was also a much longer and larger battle than the Bo5A. In the movies, it appears to last at least at least two full days and Rohan came about halfway through at the dawn on the second day. The Bo5A was what, several hours? So if the Eagles came the last few hours of a fight that's several hours long that's about the same comparatively to Rohan coming on the second day of a two day siege. It's hard to say how long the eagles were there because Bilbo gets knocked out as soon as they arrive. It may seem like they were only there a few minutes, but does it ever give actual time frames in the book? For all we know Bilbo was out for over half the battle or longer? I think you are assuming the eagles only showed up at the very end because Bilbo is telling the story first hand and when he gets knocked out, the last part is only summarized to him by Gandalf. Now THIS is a bad example. In the Hobbit, Tolkien specifically talks about the eagles gathering in great numbers. At the Black Gates there were what, maybe a dozen tops? That hardly constitutes a "great number" imo. This site talks about there being nearly 100 giant eagles at the Bo5A. 100 is now where near the same as a dozen. Also the eagles just come in and attack the Nazgul. They don't seem to have as big of role as they did in the Bo5A. Imho, I wouldn't consider any of the creatures their own army though, OR I would consider them all their own for continuity sake. Instead Tolkien seemed to pick and choose which were an "army". That's why I think it seems best to consider an army based on their alignment, there are no contradictions then. I mean if wargs and goblins were each a separate army in the Bo5A, why not the bats too? Will the trolls be in PJ version? The eagles? It's not even the Bo5A then, it's the battle of a dozen armies.

Not at all? He was saying the eagles don't count as one of the five armies due to their tardiness in the battle. I was pointing out the exact same could be said about the U.S. in WWII, or Rohan in the Battle of Pelennor Fields since in both instances one of the factions showed up very late after the respective war had started. It's actually an almost identical scenario... lol?

Rohan didn't start the Battle at Pelennor Fields, they came almost a day later. Are they not considered part of the armies either then? I am sorry, but your logic is flawed.

How long they were in the battle is irrelevant, they were still a huge factor. Do we not consider the U.S. as part of WWII since they came late to the war? Well there were several others as well, but many consider Faramir a more minor character. He didn't really do anything major in the battles.

Actually this is incorrect. The good guys were losing the battle until the eagles and Beorn showed up. The eagles were one of the big deciding factors in the battle and without them the orcs could have very well won...

Holy white wargs Batman! Is there any particular reason you have so many of the white version?

No offense, but that kind of seems like cherry picking. So we get Bard and his black arrow in the smaller Lake-town set, but he can't use it or fight against Smaug unless you buy the $130 set? By that logic kids will also be able to afford the other bigger Lake-town set that includes Bard if they can drop $30 for the smaller Lake-town and $130 for Erebor so why have Bard in both? I mean it seems silly to include Bard and the black arrow when there literally is no dragon for him to use it against unless you buy multiple sets (and one of which is very expensive). It's made even more redundant by the fact Bard is in the other Lake-town set which I can only assume are meant to go together. Ehh, I think they were more wondering if there was something on the left because the picture was cropped. It turned out there wasn't though, the conveyer thing just ends. I think most people still feel the set is over priced and the build is a little lacking. I think people are just frustrated. A lot of the decisions don't make any sense to us because we can't see the thought process or the reasoning behind Lego's decisions. By all accounts, why would Lego make Council of Elrond over a Witch King Battle set which could include the Witch King on Fel Beast, Eowyn, and maybe a few orcs and Gondor Soldiers? Why were no Gondor Soldiers or the Witch King in the Black Gate set? Why was there no bear form Beorn or armored elf/dwarf/orc soldiers? It's just things that make very little sense to us as costumers. Even from a kids perspective it makes little sense. Do kids really want the Council of Elrond over a Witch King Battle set with cool creatures and soldiers? I doubt it. I think us as AFOLs give credit where credit is due. You say we tear Lego apart over little things like including catapults, but that is hardly true. Helm's Deep and Uruk-hai Army had catapults and people LOVED those sets despite the inaccuracies put in to give them play features. In fact people really loved the first Hobbit and LotR waves. It's just since then, it's as if like Lego hasn't put anywhere near the effort into these themes. While we did get a lot, the LotR line has some huge holes with an entire faction missing and two huge characters (Eowyn and the Witch King). The Hobbit line also is missing some armored soldiers and cool characters like bear Beorn, Bolg, and armored versions of the orcs/dwarves/elves. What makes all of this even more agonizing is, like Darth Caedus points out, this could have EASILY been rectified with a little more planning on Lego's part. I have said the same thing, Lego could of literally covered everything they are missing with the same set price points if they had just shifted some things around a bit.

Exactly. Lego can only skimp out on a wave or line so much before it starts to actually cost them money. As a company, they need to figure out how much is acceptable to costumers. I know by not including an armored elf in the Mirkwood Elf Army set, and not including something as simple as orc hair pieces, they really lost a lot of sales with me. Sure they probably saved a lot of money by only having Thranduil's hair be the only new mold, but I bought over 20 Uruk-hai Army sets and dozens more Uruk-hai and Rohan Soldiers off BrickLink. How many MEA sets did I buy? Barely half that at 10 (and most of those were bought for the Wargs). With a lot of their Middle-Earth sets it feels like they are cutting too many corners as of late and the sets really suffer as a result. You need to put in money to make money.

Well regardless he has to call it the Battle of Five Armies at that point because that's what the battle is called. He can't list the first four armies (men, dwarves, elves, and orcs/wargs) and say this is the Battle of Four Armies, then change the name to Battle of Five armies later when the eagles arrive. Do people ever consider maybe Tolkien PURPOSELY made it seem like the wargs were one of the five armies, without actually stating it, so later on the eagles would be that much more of a surprise? I strongly suspect the eagles are the fifth army because it's the only logical explanation. Surely if the wargs are their own army, the eagles would be too (and maybe even the bats)? It doesn't necessarily work the other way around though, since the eagles weren't working with any of the factions prior to the battle. Heck, no one even knew they were going to arrive. How do you explain the wargs being their own army if the eagles aren't one...? I will say it's not crystal clear which five factions are armies. I am just basing it off logic. Tolkien says a lot of things in his books and then goes back and contradicts them later. He calls orcs goblins throughout the Hobbit, when for all intents and purposes they are the same race. He lists wargs as mounts for the goblins, but also talks about them being intelligent creatures. When he first list the dwarves, men, elves, wargs, and goblins, why doesn't he also list the bats? I would say THIS is a stronger indicator that the wargs are their own army than anything, leaving the bats off when they have already been talked about. You say it's unreasonable to state the eagles are the fifth army for sure, but I think it's unreasonable to state the wargs are just because Tolkien states it's the Battle of Five Armies and list five races (before all were even present). Maybe it was a coincidence? Maybe it was him trying to purposely deceive readers? At any rate, it doesn't make sense.

If you include Smaug it probably has around the same number of new molds as the past waves. It just doesn't seem like it because so many are used up for that one creature. It feels like the rest of the wave really suffered just to give us a new molded Smaug. We only have 4 new molds excluding those used for Smaug (Dain helm, Thorin's crown hair, Witch King helm, Orc hair). Maybe Lego could have kept the Hobbit as a building license and just got the LotR one as an action figure license so they could make a few CFM series of it? If we got two normal LotR waves I am sure we would have gotten at least two CMF waves instead, and maybe even three. Why would Lego do less? Much like the Simpsons CMF, I think a LotR one would work because it would be aimed more at AFOLs, allow for all the new molds needed, and it would focus on the minifigures which are what fans really seem to like about the LotR sets anyways. We would probably get more figures than we currently got and a lot of the missing stuff could have been covered (Witch King, Eowyn, Gondor Soldiers, Easterlings, Haradrim, armored elves, etc.). The only issue I see is getting the big figs and molded creatures out there. I am not sure how the Cave Troll or Wargs could be distributed if there were no normal sets and everything was done as CMF. A chess set wouldn't work as a stand alone, it would have to be added on to the existing waves or the CMF series. There just aren't enough pieces to cover everything from Middle-Earth in a single chess set.

I am sure TRU will have the sets available a few weeks early like they do with all waves. You are right though, waiting another month and a half would have been very difficult, to say the least. Then again maybe we could still hold onto our false hope for a great wave Btw, why do people keep saying Elrond can be used as an army builder for the elves? While his torso and legs probably will work fine for this, what do you plan to use for his head? We have nothing that looks remotely like an elvish Middle-Earth helm. The "common" elf ears and hair are still pretty rare and expensive unless you get blond. Do you guys plan on using third party accessories or something? That sentence seems to be causing a lot of confusion, but doesn't explicitly out line the armies. Heck, you could infer there are only two armies from that.. the good and bad sides. Yes it says the battle started, but maybe it's not listing all the armies yet? Tolkien couldn't tell us the eagles are an army at this point or it would spoil the story. Their arrival is a surprise. Also it mentions the goblins rode the wargs so they seem to be little more than mounts in the battle.. you don't include horses as an army when you state sides in war? Your argument is the same argument used before, but it makes little sense in my eyes. Why would you include the wargs as their own army but not the bats or eagles then? The eagles as their own army makes more sense because they were neutral good and had no affiliation with any of the armies prior to the battle. The goblins and wargs worked in tandem throughout the Hobbit novel. Regardless it doesn't really matter since PJ has apparently already stated the five armies in his movie are orcs, men, dwarves, elves, and the eagles. He said the orcs will have more than just wargs on their side, including some crazy creatures apparently and trolls. None of these are going to be their own army though, they all fall under the orcs.

I believe it's $60, not 50. Most people are really unhappy with the minifigure selection, not the actual build (though it looks like a large-ish part of the build is a catapult that no one really wants). What we can see of the build just isn't helping matters. Also what do you mean everyone freaked out over the early images of the Lonely Mountain set? We saw the official image first which gave us a great view, then saw some additional angles. I don't think it really changed many people's opinions...? Most still think the build is garbage, it has too few minifigures, and is over priced at $130? In retrospect the minifigure count seems to be decent in the third wave. The Erebor set has far fewer than normal, but the other sets have more than you generally get at those price points. If my calculations are correct, we get 20 minifigures this wave (excluding any possible promo items like polybags). That is the same number we got in the second Hobbit wave and the second LotR wave. Obviously the first wave for each theme had more since they had more than four sets. I dunno about others, but the red flag for me was at the first of the year when the sets were unveiled at the Toy Fairs with their prices were revealed. A $30 "army builder" is hard to swallow, but a $60 one? Ya, I didn't see that happening. Most people will have trouble affording one set at $60 let alone multiples.

This is what I am hoping for. Something that looks close enough to the Gondor helm and shield, but still different enough for them to get away with it. Chest armor would be a huge bonus. Then I could buy a bunch of the helms/shields/chest armor, throw them on cheap all black torso and legs, get some random flesh heads and I have my own Gondor Soldiers. I think they would make a KILLING off this because so many people want the Gondor faction but Lego doesn't appear to be giving it to us. As for the chess and CMF LotR, I know we already got most of those figures and there is no way Lego could give them to us anyways because they would break the game/action figure licenses (which Lego doesn't hold for their Middle-Earth themes). It was just a "what if" thing. I kind of wish Lego would have just gotten the action figure license for LotR instead of the building license and made a few CMF series. I mean most people seem to be just after the minifigures anyways and the sets themselves seem to get a ton of criticism. The Middle-Earth scenes don't really make great Lego sets when you think about it. Most are huge open areas in nature, vast tunnels, or enormous castles. How does Lego do them justice? It's not like Star Wars where they can whip up a ship which meshes much better with Lego bricks (they are mechanical and man made with hard lines vs organic, rounded, natural settings). Lego could of maybe done more brick built creatures like Shelob, but for whatever reason they didn't when the opportunities were there (Ent set, Balrog, Oliphant, etc.) Not necessarily. Why would Lego waste money on the Goblin Town goblin head piece that has only been used once, or the Mouth of Sauron helm for a figure only seen in the EE of the film for a few minutes? Why not use those molds for something more useful like a Gondor Soldier or Witch King which are infinitely more important in most people's eyes? Lego does some things that don't make sense to us and we may never know the actual reason.

This is not true. We discussed this awhile back. The five armies were the elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, and eagles. If the wargs were considered their own army, why weren't the bats who fought with the orcs also considered their own? I believe they are categorized the way they are because of how each faction arrived to the fight and their previous alliance before the battle happened. What I mean by this is the orcs came with the wargs and bats already in an alliance. The eagles just came out of the blue on their own accord, they weren't in a previous alliance with the elves or men or any of the other factions. No one even knew they would show up. Here is a little further evidence: "As the battle was turning fully against the Free Folk, a number of Giant Eagles of the Misty Mountains arrived (the fifth army), led by the Great Eagle." If that weren't enough, PJ has apparently stated the five armies are the men, dwarves, elves, orcs, and eagles. Lego's set supports this claim by making sure to include at least one figure from each of the five armies. With that said I agree the eagle is a lame creature, and probably the worst molded creature of all the Middle-Earth ones. I would have MUCH preferred Beorn in bear form. Probably out of shame. Hehe, jk... sort of.

Narzug twice and the front of the package list them both as.. Mordor Orc it looks like. Wtf?

At this point, I highly doubt there will be. If Lego was going to give us a third LotR wave, they probably would have done it between the two Hobbit waves rather than wait nearly a year between releases. Also the waves seem to be getting less and less attention from the Lego designers and their budget appears to be shrinking based on the lack of new molds in the third Hobbit wave. Add to that the second Hobbit wave was barely stocked in most areas, and the writing is pretty clear on the wall.