Deathleech

But that's the thing, I am not even talking about army buiilding with kids. I am just talking about kids buying their standard one set whether it be an army builder or a set that has all named characters. If a kid buys one Council of Elrond or one Uruk-hai Army it doesn't really matter to Lego, they are making the same profit from either set? But with the Uruk-hai Army there is the potential to sell dozens to each AFOL where as Council of Elrond very few people are going to buy more than one regardless if they are a child or adult. The only way army builders can hurt Lego is if kids don't buy any at all cause they don't include any main characters. This might be true in rare cases, but I think most kids want SOME bad guys for their good guys to fight? They don't need huge armies, but a small handful of baddies? Seeing as UHA is the cheapest way to get Uruk-hai (outside the limited available polybag) and the ONLY way to get Eomer or a Rohan Soldier I think gives it enough appeal to justify kids buying it. That seems to be the case with ALL the expensive sets though, regardless of theme? Once you get into the $100+ territory you are really alienating most children. Those are big birthday or Christmas presents, not something a kid can walk into a store and buy on impulse. I see tons of different big sets warming shelves until they are heavily discounted. At any rate I coulda swore Helm's Deep was a top seller on Amazon for at least a little while when it first came out.

Last years Hobbit wave had a December release though. This years is supposed to be released in October so we probably will see it quite a bit sooner. I would guess we will see all sets within the next month (if not at SDCC), and they will probably be released around September in most stores (unless the release date got pushed back).

I always hear people say this, but I just don't get it. Do kids really not buy ANY army builders? That's basically what it would take to balance out adults buying multiples? I mean I figure kids would buy the same amount of an army builder set as they do most other stanard ones, and that is just a single set each, but some adults go crazy and buy 5, 10, or even more each. There seems to be this stigma that kids don't buy any army builders at all which, despite adults buying multiples, actually hurts sales. From what I have seen it appears the Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army sets were by far the best sellers from the four combined waves we have gotten so far though. The only reason Lego doesn't seem to do more is so they still can hit key scenes and include key characters without saturating the market with all these army builders. As for the Pirate Ship debate, I feel like Lego missed the mark there. They gambled and figured it would have cross theme appeal because you have LotR fans AND ship fans, but it seems like a lot of LotR fans were really turned off because it's such a minor scene in the films to make such an expensive set out of. Why wouldn't a cool Gondor set have the same appeal to multiple genres? You could capture the monster fans with a Fel Beast, the LotR fans with all the named characters, and the castle fans with some really sweet looking new Gondor Soldier helm and shield molds/prints. Lastly have we tried to post all these Lego Idea projects to sites such as theonering.net? It seems like posting it there would significantly bump the amount of support for the projects in a very small amount of time. I know when other projects get posted to sites like Bricset or the Purdue Pete one on the school site their support can double or triple over night. Some times they even go from a few hundred/thousand supports to having the 10,000 goal reached within a very short amount of time. With all the LotR fans on theonering.net it seems like they would support some of the better LotR projects whether they are Lego fans or not.

That's a lovely print! I dunno if he will be released later on in a normal set or not. With Azog we knew he would be because there is no way Lego is going to make an expensive mold just for a limited, 100 run exclusive figure. Prints are a whole nother matter though, and much cheaper for Lego to do.

Without Gimli there is no action feature in the Council of Elrond. That means even less appeal to kids (not that there is a ton to begin with). Also Gimli is already in a few higher priced sets (Helm's Deep, Mines of Moria) so having him in a lower priced set rather than yet another high priced one is always nice for variety sake.

I hope any Hobbit exlusive is like the previous ones in that it is pretty much identicle to minifigures that will be found in upcoming sets and the only realy "exclusive" part is the packaging.

While a $20 set similair to Shelob Attacks with the Balrog as the main and only build would definetly work, I would of preferred it more as a $40 set. It could includede 2 Moria Orcs with helmets, Gandalf the Gray, maybe another Fellowship member we havn't seen much of in other sets, the the Balrog build, and the bridge with some stairs. That would of been perfect in my eyes. Ehh, it would more be like Marvel giving us an Ant Man movie instead of X-men? The Witch King is hands down one of the main evil characters while the Mouth of Sauron is a second or even third rate character (who isn't even in the normal versions of the movie). Deadpool and Ant Man are both secondary properties in Marvel's eyes (I think), though Deadpool is probably a little more popular? Not quite the same at any rate.

Well they were readily available online for a good month+. The only thing that sucked about that was the limited quanitites, but if you bought them during a BOGO and with some other Lego products to get free shipping it wasn't bad at all.

I totally agree. Why include Gimli when his spot could of easily been used for another Corsair minifigure or a third Undead Soldier? I think that would of made the set much more appealing to most people. It's another example of a "wtf moment" by Lego. While I understand Lego probably wanted to keep the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli trio together, Gimli is in so many other sets his inclusion in the Pirate Ship Ambush is just overkill and made less room for more desirable characters. I think Lego could have really satisfied fans with just two waves, and with their current line up, had they planned it a bit better. I don't really have ANY beefs with the first LotR wave, it was near perfection. Maybe instead of a Uruk-hai poly they could of given us a Mordor or Moria Orc one since they are harder to amass and there was already the Uruk-hai Army set for building your Isengard forces. The Orc Forge could of included five minifigures like shown in the prototype pic and had more hair pieces, but that's a really minor grip. Other than that I have no complaints with the first wave. The second wave just failed in so many ways. The Black Gates set really should of had a Gondor Soldier or two in it if there wern't going to be more sets made. Ditch one or both of the crappy Mordor Orcs and fill it's space with the Gondor Soldier(s). While the Mouth of Sauron was a fun surprise, it was a double edged sword. Why waste the mold and print on someone only seen in the Extended Editions of the film and who had such a minor role? The Pirate Ship Ambush set was already discussed, ditch Gimli for another Corsair or Undead Soldier. I also really think Lego should of given us more orc hair pieces and given us at least one other print for the Mordor Orcs. I mean why are their two prints for the Undead Soldiers and two for the Goblin Town Orcs when they are used in ONE set, yet the Mordor Orcs are in at least five sets and they all share a single print? Prints are cheap, and if you are going to use a figure that much at least offer some variety besides re-using Uruk-hai armor or making them bald (and ugly). That leaves Council of Elrond and Wizard Duel. I am not sure much could of really been done with these sets given their small nature. A Gondor Soldier polybag and some named character would of really helped round out the wave. This fixes the big missing faction but of course still leaves the glaring hole of missing named characters. I think a fifth $40 Witch King Battle set would of workerd perfectly to fix this. Give us the Witch King, a small building, a Fel Beast, Eowyn, and maybe Theoden/Pippin/Merry in their Gondor/Rohan attire. That's what I thought as well. While the Pirate Ship Ambush may be a turning point in the movie and hold appeal for pirate fans, it had such little screen time compared to say Osgiliath or the Pelennor Fields/Minas Tirith battle it didn't make much sense to make into a set before them. I mean the battle in front of and inside Minas Tirith literally took up half the RotK film. The Pirate Ship Ambush was only a few minutes long, and not much longer in the EE. To me it seems like Lego definetly planned only two LotR waves and two Hobbit waves, and when the third Hobbit film was announced they split their big second waves into two smaller waves. They probably had to go back and make another 1-2 sets per wave to round them out. This would explain why the second waves were so small compared to the first (4 sets to the 6 and 7). It would also explain the odd price points, there was no $10-13 or $100-130 wave 2 Hobbit set and no $40-50 or $70-90 LotR sets. Finally, and probably most importantly, it would explain why Lego just left out one of the biggest LotR factions in the second wave, and glossed over several main characters like Eowyn and the Witch King. Of course where the third LotR wave went is anybody's guess. I think that wave two sales were so poor that Lego pulled the plug on the line. I'm not really sure what they expected though with such a sub par line up.

So far the polybags have been pretty good imo. We get the one named character which is usually pretty "meh", but the soldier type has almost always been good. I really wish we could of gotten a polybag with the second LotR wave. An Undead Soldier or Orc would of been ideal along with maybe Legolas or something (since the LotR version isn't in any cheap sets). For the third Hobbit wave I am hoping for either an Orc or an Iron Hill Dwarve. Please no more elves. Thorin would make for a good named character. I know those outside the U.S. can have issues finding the polys, but in the U.S. there isn't much excuse to miss them. They are usually available at TRU stores in decent quantities and online they have them off and on a few weeks and then usually stock them solid for at least a month before running out of supplies.

Well it would also make sense to make the second LotR wave a little larger than four sets. Six would of worked perfectly and Lego could of covered all the big LotR stuff they missed with just two more. They could of also made a wave with the current four Hobbit sets and two LotR ones as another option. I feel like the small four set waves were either to compensate for split waves, or for lacking sales. Well in all fairness the Hobbit wave was released right before Christmas which is the biggest time of the year for toy sales. Also the Hobbit wave had a movie to support it while the LotR wave kinda came out of no where to unsuspecting fans and had VERY little advertising or tie ins done. I think Orc Forge and Orthanc were mostly FotK and TTT based sets, but regardless the RotK sets seemed to really be lacking. I understand Lego went with the Pirate Ship to try and appeal to ship fans as well as LotR fans, but come on! They couldn't of made a Balrog instead? That would of appealed to monster fans and kids as well as LotR fans. If Lego was worried that was too dark or demonic, why not give us a cool Witch King vs Eowen or Faramir set with a Fel Beast, some Gondor Soldiers, and a new Orc print or two? I think the Fel Beast would of been a huge hit even with non-LotR fans because it would look so cool. Instead we got a scene only seen in the movies a few minutes. Heck, Lego could of even kept their current line up and just made wiser minifigure choices. Black Gates could and should of had a Gondor Soldier or two in it. I would of loved to have seen Lego gone further with the multi purchase marketing they did for this set and include an extra minifigure or three to make it a quasi army builder. Lego was already advertising multiple purchases so why not make the minifigures more as appealing as the build when you buy several? Imagine an eagle, black horse, Gandalf the White, Aragorn in Gondor attire, two Gondor Soldiers, the Mouth of Sauron and one new Orc print (which could have been re-used twice in the Pirate Ship Ambush set). That way they just covered a HUGE faction that is sorely missing right now at very little extra cost to them. This would of made the set infinitely more appealing too. I can't speak for others, but I would of probably bought ten of them, if not more, if it had Gondor Soldiers in it. This is really my problem with the Lego LotR line too. It's like there were just so many missed opportunities, even with what they did release. I understand not every character and scene can feasibly be made into a set, but how do you just leave out 1/3 of the factions and characters in the trilogy? And not only that, we got characters like Haldir, Grima, the Mouth of Sauron, and the Undead when most are hardly featured in the films or have relatively minor roles compared to characters like Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch King, and Gondor Soldiers. It's like a huge WTF? It makes no logical sense. I really wish Lego would of gotten the LotR license over a decade ago when the movies were being released in theaters. I feel they would of had much better sales and we could of easily seen three or even four waves with EVERYTHING covered. As is, the Hobbit films just don't seem to be anywhere near as good as the LotR ones, and the sets are much more lackluster in comparison.

I seriously doubt we will ever get a Minas Tirith set through Cuusoo/Lego Ideas just based on the past approved projects. Very few are expensive sets and none have ever been in the $200-400 range. Lately Lego seems to be favoring the $30-50 sets as that's almost exclusively what the most recent ones have all cost. As much as I would love to see one of those Minas Tirith sets made, I just don't ever see it happening. More realistically I think Lego COULD give us a single $30 set. Make it a psuedo army builder like the Mirkwood Elf Army/Uruk-hai Army sets. Give us two Orcs with new prints and molds, a Nazgul, and a Fel Beast as the main build. For the good guys we could have Faramir or Eowyn and a Gondor soldier or two. Throw in a Rohan Helmet and a Witch King crown as alternate helms for even more appeal. That way you could make the Nazgul into the Witch King or keep it a regular Nagul, and Eowyn could serve as a soldier of Rohan or Eowyn. The hair and hood don't even need to be new molds. That would cover nearly all the main characters still missing and the Gondor faction all in one cheap set. I doubt even a set like that would get made if it got enough votes on Ideas though. It seems Lego has pretty much left the Middle-Earth line for dead. We won't be getting sets for almost a year, when we do it's only going to be four, and the past two waves have been seriously lackluster. If that wern't enough evidence we also have rampant reports the line is over after the third Hobbit wave.

Well in all fairness NujuMetru's Minas Tirith has been up for awhile since it was on the previous Cuusoo site before Lego changed it to Ideas. It had a lot more time to garner votes because of this. Rakrondewl's design has only been up four days and has 150 votes now. Personally I like Rakrondewl's a bit more. It seems more encompassing and better scaled. The one thing I never was a fan of with Nuju's design was the HUGE catapults, which I felt were almost comical in their large size compared to the rest of the structure. Other than that I loved it though. Rar's looks more like an official set with the scale imo. He said he used 3944 pieces which would be about the size of the Death Star, or $400 if it were to be made into a set. Even then I think, if need be, the set could lose the Grond battering ram and not go quite as far back to shave off several hundred pieces and bring the price down closer to $300. I dunno, I feel like at this point Gondor Soldiers are the hands down most important thing we need. Eowyn can be created with existing parts fairly easily. Throw a generic flesh female head with hair on a medieval or Rohan body and you have something that would pass as her no problem. The same could be down with Faramir if we got a Gondor soldier costum (albiet wouldn't be his more iconic ranger costum, and not totally accurate). How do you re-create a Gondor soldier though? Their helms are beyond destinct, and there are no existing Lego toroso or legs with the white tree or armor style they wear.

This. The Balrog build might be cool, but the bridge and stairs wouldn't be anymore interesting than Osgiliath Ruins. Osgiliath would come with tons of new soldiers and prints though where as the bridge wouldn't have anything new and at most some boring variants. It has to be Osgiliath Ruins for me as well.

Well right now Lego has covered most of the big scenes in FotR and TTT. RotK is the only film still sorely lacking sets.

I doubt Lego would ever make a Glamdring mold. It just isn't distinct enough when they already have the standard pointed greatsword. Sure it's not as narrow as Glamdrign and doesn't have the same shape near the hilt, but it's close enough. I would expect Orcrist loooong before Glamdring since it has a really unique shape totally unlike any Lego weapon. As for the top five sets I want? Well there are really only five I really want at all so five would pretty much cover everything major for me. They are: Gondor Soldier Army Builder A $30 set with 5 minifigures and a Mountain Troll as the large molded creature (these are our dream sets, right? Not what Lego would be likely to do?). The minifigures would be Faramir who could double as an Ithilien Ranger, 2 Gondor Soldiers (with armor, new helm molds, and new shield molds), and 2 Mordor/Morannon Orcs with new prints. The build would be an add on wall piece to Minas Tirith. Minas Tirith Siege The first level of Minas Tirith centered around the front gate and Grond for $150. Minifigures would be Eowyn, Witch King, Gothmog, Pippin in Gondor gear, Merry in Rohan attire, Denethor, 2 White Tree guards (even though they appear higher up in the city), and 2 Mordor Orcs. Would also include a large molded Fel Beast and possibly Theoden on Snowmane (though not necessary). Play features would be exploding wall pieces and swinging Grond to bust open front gate. Oliphant Attack A $60 set with a large molded Oliphant that has a brick built platform on his back. Figures would be 2 Haradrim, 1 Haradrim Chieftain, 1 Rohan Soldier on black or white horse, and 1 Easterling with shield and spear (since they wouldn't fit anywhere else really...). Play features would be platform on back has lever to pop it off Oliphant's back. Balrog Encounter This set would include Gandalf with new hair mold, 2 Moria Orcs with new helms, and the same Boromir we get in Mines of Moria. Balrog would be brick built and come with pieces to create a long narrow bridge with some stairs. Play features would be Balrog whipping action, collapsable stairs and bridge that falls apart in middle. This set would be $40 If we got these four sets I would be more than pleased with the LotR range. Lego could also break the Minas Tirith set into two seperate sets for cheaper. One could be Osgiliath and the other the Witch King vs Eowyn.

I agree. While it may not be the most visually stunning set, it still wouldn't look terrible. A nice bridge and stairs would at least be different than all the gray walls we keep getting, and there would be tons of cool, movie accurate play features like the collapsing stairs and bridge. The Balrog itself could really look cool and have a whipping arm action that I imagine most kids would love. I think a brick built Balrog like Shelob would be best. The minifigure selection would really be the only thing lacking in this set since it would all be rehashes, but Lego could still make them appealing by giving the Moria Orcs their cool, distinct helms and maybe giving us another chance to get Boromir.

Right, but there are a few key differences. First off there really was no other option for an army builder set based on the DoS film. What else could they have possibly made an army builder set out of besides the elves and orcs? It was just a good way for Lego to get Thranduil, some orcs, elves, and a brown Warg into a wave that would otherwise be devoid of an army builder. We have no idea what this set was originally based on due to so many changes in the film and the early prelim info Lego was going off of. Maybe it was suppose to be a bigger battle scene, or more likely based off the water gate scene we see? Secondly Lake-town shouldn't even include most of the races that take part in the Bo5A. I know PJ has deviated a ton from the book and added a lot, but I just don't see the dwarf, orc, or elf army entering Lake-town to fight the Lake-town Guards. Remember at the end of DoS Smaug was headed to Lake-town to torch it? There shouldn't be any time for armies to arrive there before he begins, nor why would they? It would be such a huge deviation from the book I can't see it happening. A Bo5A army builder, on the other hand, could easily include all the races and be movie accurate. It seems like an obvious choice to make an army builder out of a set where all the races have their armies and are doing battle. I see the Lake-town set being a small $30 set with four characters. Bain, maybe Alfrid, and one or two of the dwarves with Tauriel possibly? Maybe a Lake-town soldier or captain? It will probably just have the tower with the bolt thrower and maybe one other small building and be an add-on to the Lake-town Chase set. I don't think we are getting an army builder this wave which is a shame considering the potential.

Why would Lego make a Lake-town army builder when a much better choice would be a Bo5A army builder (which they seemed to have skipped)? I mean unless PJ added tons of extra scenes, there shouldn't be much fighting in Lake-town between actual armies. It's all just Smaug fighting the Lake-town men. On the other hand a Bo5A army builder could have dwarves, elves, orcs, and of course Lake-town men. The former are never even seen in Lake-town. Bo5A is a battle actually focused on armies clashing and would of been PERFECT as an army builder!

Council of Elrond was $30, didn't have any bad guys, and only had four minifigures. I expect the Lake-town set to be very similar unless it is an army builder type. I doubt Lake-town will have more than four minifigures though. We already know it has Bain so the chances of it having five more soldiers seem pretty slim to none (which it would need to be an army builder like the past ones we have gotten). The $40 price tag seems to still stick to four minifigures as seen with Orc Forge. Heck, we only get five minifigures in the $50-60 sets.

Ya, unless Lake-town is an army builder type set, it will only have four minifigures. Look at Council of Elrond and Mirkwood Spider Escape. The $30 sets with six have all been army builder-esque (UHA and MEA). I would THINK Lego is most likely to include Bolg and Dain in the $60 Bo5A set since it's gonna be the main conflict, but honestly that leaves Lake-town being pretty boring in terms on minifigures. We would get all minor characters and no bad guys to fight (unless you count Alfrid as being bad). I mean Bain and Alfrid would be cool, but they aren't really that exciting for kids and Bard would be totally redundant in another Lake-town set.

Beorn is never specifically said to be a druid in the films or books, but based on how druids are usually portrayed in other fantasy he definitely has the characteristics of one. He has an affinity to nature, can communicate and control animals, and can shape change into an animal himself. About the only thing he is missing is being able to cast magical spells.

I'm just basing it on pretty much every response I got to my question a few pages back. Only you and atreyu2112 seem to be seeing anything different. Since we don't have any sales numbers, and probably never will, the next best thing we can get are reports from members around the world. I would love to hear from more people so we can get a better idea of how the DoS Hobbit sets are doing in different areas. That is true, and the LotR/Hobbit themes do seem to be more popular in other countries than here in the U.S. The U.S. accounts for a huge chunk of Lego sales though, so if I theme does poor here it has to go above and beyond in other countries to even attempt to compensate. With Galadrial coming in the next Hobbit wave, and Amon Hen not really offering anything new at all in terms of minifigures, I could do without both of those sets. I would rather see an Oliphant, Balrog, and/or some new minifigures instead. I also would prefer to get a "proper" Gondor Soldier army builder set at the $30 price tag and with more minifigures.

Ruins of Osgiliath again

I have no interest in them. My biggest issue is they seem extremely redundant and boring each year. I would LOVE for Lego to rotate other themes in and out every year, but I understand why they stick to City, Star Wars, and Friends (their cash cows). If I had children they might be something fun to give them before Christmas, but as is they really don't appeal to me at all.