Deathleech

Ya, I didn't count Smaug. He seems to be a huge reason the wave seemed so lackluster. A large portion of the new mold budget was undoubtedly spent on him, and the set he is in seems extremely over priced and boring (other than Smaug) to most people. As for what Lego COULD have used new molds on? I can think of tons. An armored orc or elf would have been nice and something fans have been wanting for years now. A new hair or hat with hair mold for Gandalf that actually looks like it does in the movie? Bolg? There are tons of options.

Ahh ok. Do you remember who did Black Gates and Wizard Battle? I wanna say Bjark did both, but I think Hans might have done one of them..

I just want to point out we can tell who most of the set designers were for wave 1 and 2 Middle Earth Sets. They are the ones who present the designer videos for each set. A few have since been removed, but the ones that are left show: Henrik Saaby Clausen Gandalf Arrives Nicholas Groves Shelob Attacks The Orc Forge Martin Klotz Attack on Weathertop Uruk-hai Army Hans Henrik Sidenius Dol Guldur Battle Riddles for the Ring The Goblin King Battle The Mines of Moria Bjark Lykke Madsen An Unexpected Gathering The Battle of Helm's Deep Jordan Scott Attack of the Wargs Escape from Mirkwood Spiders Mirkwood Elf Army Pirate Ship Ambush Jordan, Bjark, and Hans group effort Tower of Orthanc I vaguely remember who did the sets that are missing for the second waves. I remember they were all done by Hans, Bjark, and Jordan though. Those guys were in charge of all the wave one and two Hobbit sets so I assume they did the wave three sets as well. I know they did the wave two LotR sets also. Henrik Saaby Clausen, Nicholas Groves, Martin Klotz worked on the first LotR wave but didn't work on any LotR sets after that. Jordan Scott was new to the Lego team and Attack of the Wargs was one of the first sets he made. I always felt like of the three main Middle Earth designers, Bjark was hands down the best, with Jordan being the worst and Hans somewhere in the middle. This was probably due to Jordan being so new though.

Not necessarily. Think about it from Lego's perspective... if they did test or focus groups with their second waves and they performed well, maybe Lego figured it was just a lack of interest in the theme that lead to poor sales? Maybe they sold ok, but not well enough for Lego to invest thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars into a bunch of new molds for one last wave? Maybe Lego would have cancelled the line after two waves, but due to their license agreement had to put out a third wave and as such put minimal effort into it? There are TONS of unknowns. It's not about Lego being disappointed in their failure and hurting themselves, it's a toy company who probably had worse than expected sales with their second waves and figured they wouldn't put the effort into wave 3. I mean you have to remember Lego has limited production capabilities and new molds they can make. Why waste them on the Hobbit when they can better use that production for huge hits like Friends, Star Wars, and City? That's a no brainer for Lego. It seems like Hobbit toys as a whole have performed fairly poorly with kids. Games Workshop, Bridge Direct, and even Lego seem to have underwhelming sales with the theme so that makes me think it's just a lack of interest among kids as much as anything. The lackluster set designs just didn't help.

There, I fixed it for you Star Wars regularly gets waves that have 4 battlepacks in em. I would LOVE even 2 cheap BPs released in a single LotR or Hobbit wave (or one mid-priced BP like UHA or MEA released per wave). Regardless, you bring up some other good points. On top of low stock ordered by stores, the third Hobbit wave seems completely uninspired and has minimal new molds. How many new molds did we actually get in that wave, like 3 or 4? Compare that to other waves which have had double or triple and ya, it seems like Lego wasn't expecting much from the third Hobbit wave and as such didn't invest very heavily in it.

Actually, for me at least, it's like five stores. Three different Targets and two Wal-Marts. Then you add in reports from the dozens of other members which all seem to be the same and you get a pretty good impression of what's going on. It's not like mixed reports where some people are seeing tons of stock and it selling quick while others see a few sets on shelves collecting dust. Pretty much EVERYONE is seeing the same thing.. sets not selling well and VERY small stock ordered. This is the ONLY thing we actually can see and base anything off of. Everything else is pure speculation. We will NEVER know exact sales figures or how the line is doing. Lego doesn't generally release that sort of info. The most they say in their sales reports is that their top sellers (City, Friends, Star Wars, etc.) are performing strong or whatever. We have no idea why there wasn't a third LotR wave. Maybe Lego had one planned and the splitting of the Hobbit into three movies changed their plans from 3 to 2 LotR waves? Maybe sales were poor and they cut the line short? Maybe there was no intention of ever doing a third LotR wave for whatever reason? We have no idea. Yup, and there was even a Castle wave right in the middle of all the LotR and Hobbit waves so it's not like there has been that long of a wait.

Ya, it was kinda bad with the second LotR and Hobbit waves, but the third Hobbit wave should of put any doubt to rest. When retailers order that small of stock, it's because the previous waves didn't sell all that well. Just compare it to any of Lego's other themes. Star Wars takes up a quarter of an aisle and is plentifully stocked, and re-stocked, over and over. The BoFA wave though? Most stores didn't even have the biggest set, if any sets at all. Those stores that DID carry em only had a handful on shelves and barely re-stocked shelves, if ever.

This seems EXTREMELY unlikely. If Lego were going to release a last LotR wave, why not do it in the summer of 2015 when there is nothing like it slated for release? No castle or anything. The earliest we could see a LotR wave now is a later/winter 2015 release, or early 2016 since we have seen all the summer sets at the Toy Fair. This puts us at a year since the last Hobbit wave and two and a half years since the last LotR wave. Considering it came from a customer rep, who are NOTORIOUS for not having info about future waves, makes me all the more skeptical. I would say the chances of it happening are 1 in 10.

Ya, I suppose. Maybe I should have said there haven't been any substantial Castle waves since 2010? Unless we get something late 2015, there will only have been 12 sets released in five years, and two of them were the blister battlepacks. That's like one years worth of waves, or two normal waves basically. Regardless of how you look at it, that's not a ton of sets released. Fewer sets means less to talk about. I think that's what the mods try to hit on most when placing themes in the forums.. what will keep the forum going and give it something to be talked about. The actual theme is a close second.. but like LotR, LR, PoP could all fit in the History forum, OR Licensed since they are both technically (well not real history, but you get my point).

I feel the same. I got back into Lego right when the Dino sets were being cleared off shelves and retired. I debated buying them all, but never did and seriously regret it now. My only hope is Lego does a second Jurrasic World or Park wave and include the triceratops dino and the coelophysis from the Dino line.

This MOc brings back such found WC3 memories...

I absolutely love the tower! I made a wish list post in the 2016 Castle thread and that tower was kind of what I was picturing with one of the sets. A nice rickety look out tower for the bad guys. The only difference is I would make it shorter so it fit the $20 price slot and probably get rid of the hut on top in favor of some railing or spikes.

I guess I have trouble picturing that based on all of Lego's previous castle offerings. Usually the interior of the Castle is restricted to the very narrow, tight towers, or it's just a few random pieces pushed up against a wall. I would imagine any sort of interior set would be around 10x10 studs, minimum? That's not going to fit in any castle tower and if the castle opens up to form a gray wall, it might look silly with the courtyard/outside then a banquet hall/kitchen/chamber pushed right up against it? Unless you are talking about just PIECES from a set like that.. so instead of an actual banquet room it's just the tables and chairs, which might work better than trying to build half the room out of bricks? At any rate I really would love to see at least 5 factions in the new Fantasy theme. Humans, dwarves, and elves vs goblins/orcs/trolls (whatever Lego decides to call them), and dark elves. Despite getting tons of elves in the Hobbit line, we never have gotten a faction of yellow elves so it might be nice? Knowing Lego though, we will prolly get humans, dwarves, undead, and trolls again. The undead are almost a given considering they use them for tons of themes as an enemy faction...

You contradict yourself though. You say that the current castles are too small to fit any sort of detailed interiors, yet you want an interior set that complements the usual Castle line up? How is say a banquet room going to complement a carriage, gate, and castle, especially if it doesn't even fit inside any of those? They are all outside/exterior buildings or vehicles. An interior would be extremely out of place if Lego just plopped down a set like that with their other Castle offerings.

Yes, because how else are you going to make a trap or pit of any substance without making a hole first for the figures to fall into? Even a square pit 5 or 6 bricks high is going to use up around 50+ brickls alone. The Rancor pit was a huge $60 set and that wasn't even fully enclosed (I know a pit doesn't need to be near this big for one figure to fall into, but you get the idea). I mean sure you could make a trap door that goes no where, but how fun is that? As for the chandelier, even the simplest ones I have seen MOC'd use dozens upon dozens of pieces, and that's not even including the wall/ceiling or mechanism to hold it up. Regardless, it's not Lego's job to change the world. Their job is making toys for children that in turn bring a profit for themselves. It seems you are thinking about this too much from an adult prospective. I know it's hard not to, trust me. I actually would love to see some more detailed Castle sets that aren't the standard carriage/gate/castle. I loved MMV and the Windmill they made, some of my favorite Castle sets in recent years. With that said though, Lego isn't going to suddenly give us Castle kitchens or bed chambers simply because your sisters liked Castle sets growing up, or because kids are spoon fed what to do in sets nowadays. I see this arguement all the time but people have to understand their specific family might not be the norm. The same way I have come to grips with the fact not everyone, adult or child, buys Lego to army build like I do. Hence the lack of army builders in a lot of themes. For every one family like yours, there were probably 10x as many where girls who stuck to traditional dolls and boys who stuck to traditional Castle. It's not like Lego hasn't tested or tried your idea before. I am sure they have and it simply didn't work for them.

I actually considered several of those ideas, like the chandelier falling in the banquet hall. You know what I thought of right after that? How many pieces it would take to make this "simple" play feature. The same goes for a trap door/pit. You are talking literally hundreds of pieces devoted to one play feature. A catapult plopped on the top of a castle tower takes like 5-10, maybe 50 pieces tops depending how elaborate it is? Plus, as I said before, doing interior rooms is tough for Lego. Look at Mines of Moria. I actually LOVED that set. I thought it had tons fun play features for kids like the doors breaking open, pillars falling, and tomb catapult. A lot of other people on these forums hated how "disconnected" it felt. They complained about it not having a base, all the pieces not connecting to form a room, etc. I imagine the exact same problem being present with many castle interior sets. A baseplate is gonna run anywhere from $8-15 alone. A wall is another few hundred pieces, and then you have to fill it with things like chairs, tables, beds, chandeliers, etc. And even then you aren't making a complete room. So which do you think kids would want more, a single room out of a castle for $100, or an entire castle exterior for $100? It doesn't matter if the piece count is the exact same, what matters is the perceived value. Using the Middle Earth sets as an example again, Lonely Mountain has a HUGE dragon that used a ton of plastic and probably cost Lego just as much, if not more to produce than any other $130 set they have made. Yet people constantly remark how bad of a deal it is simply because the piece count is so low. Apparently kids don't want this. Did you read the report from Lego? Every time they have tried to do interiors or stuff focused more on civilian life it has performed the hands down worst in testing groups. Lego isn't going to keep trying, or put out a set like this and take a risk when they can instead stick to a formula they know works and improve on it. Not to get into a sexist debate here, but girls are vastly different than boys. It's been proven time and time again. Notice how almost none of the Friends sets have conflict in them? Yet almost EVERY Pirate, Space, Castle, Chima, Ninjago, and even a lot of City ones in recent years do? Barbies don't even come with weapons or enemies per say, they come with clothing for dress up, cars to go shopping in, pets to take care of, and food to cook. While not always the case, these are generally things girls gravitate towards.

This sums it up perfectly. You gotta remember the sets are mainly targeted at kids. While us AFOLs may love a banquet room, taverns, stables, etc., I can't imagine kids being that interested. I mean do you really think kids would enjoy cooking up a goose in the kitchen and serving it to the king in the banquet hall and then putting him to sleep in his chambers more, OR a castle being besieged with catapults and bolt throwers by an enemy force? Sure you could add some enemies who have breached the interior, but even sthen it's not that much more fun. You are missing a lot of the play features like the draw bridge and catapults which MUST be a big seller for Lego, otherwise why would they include them in almost every set with conflict? Also interior sets seem to always just have a small section of the interior, never a full room. Look at the LotR and SW sets. Because of this they catch a lot of flak from the people they should be the biggest hit with, which is AFOLs. A banquet hall or stables would probably be even worse. What do you have there? A couple stables, or a floor and wall with a large table and chairs? You don't have the iconic, imaginative scenes from say Star Wars or LotR to help sell these sets. While I have seen some AMAZING MOCs from people on these forums for castle interiors, they also use a ton of pieces. I can't imagine a kid wanting a $100 banquest hall room with stain glass windows and a few enemy soldiers attacking when they could get a small castle to attack/defend with for the same price.

Ya, except in recent years there have been vast improvements from the Lego group in terms of building techniques, molds, printing, etc. Just because it was ok five or even ten years ago doesn't mean it necessarily looks good now. I mean look at the classic yellow castle. While it has a lot of nostalgia, it looks like utter crap by today's standards. Similarly Lego constantly is going back and enhancing and fixing previous builds. Their Star Wars theme is a great example of this. Ten years ago, the special minifigure molds didn't have any printing. Now Chewabacca, ewoks, etc. all have full multi-colored printing on their head pieces.

It wasn't just lame heraldry. Most of the bigger builds were pretty boring and used way to many prefab pieces. The factions were brightly colored to the point of looking silly. Lastly the factions were just straight up lame with nothing really new or exciting offered. I would LOVE a mythical Greek style theme. That would be a close second for me behind a fantasy medieval theme. Harpies, Minotaurs, Satyrs, Medusa, Cerberus... there are tons of fantasy creatures we could get in a theme like that and the Greek soldiers would look cool and be something new as well.

Bought 8 ITT sets. They are my first Star Wars purchases in a long, LONG time (like since they were yellow instead of flesh colored...). Got em all for about 20$ off at TRU. Now I am debating if I want to continue getting Star Wars sets, or limit myself. Some of the offerings are really tempting...

I love these. So simple, yet so elegant. Great job!

Or look at it this way; you can get one large t-rex, one medium size Dilophasaur, 1 large vehicle, 1 small vehicle, 1 morotorcycle, and 5 minifigures for the same price. So buying 2 of the Raptor Rampage nets you 1 more minifigure, 1 more motorcycle, and basically 3 raptors to the 1 t-rex at the cost of 120 pieces. All the rest pretty much cancels out. Honestly, that doesn't seem that bad? 1 motorcycle and 1 minifigure vs 120 pieces? For the record I am not saying this set is priced perfect. I think at $40, or even 45 it would of been more in line with the other sets. For whatever reason Lego likes to price their 50-60 dollar sets a little high when it comes to price per piece. I just thought the people saying the Raptor Rampage set should be a $30 set were out of their minds. There is NO WAY Lego is going to price this set the same as their 2012 Dino set when it's A) a license, B) has more minifigures and an extra raptor, and C) more pieces and a motorocycle

Ehh, regardless my point was Lego can make a decent looking knight without using bright red or blue coloring.

Here is the Brickset page with all the complaints. I understand the price is a little high, especially in the UK where it translates to almost $80. Here is the US though, it's not THAT bad. People were being ridiculous and saying it should cost $20 less, or be a $30 set. Ya cause Lego is really going to make a set that costs the same as their 2012 Dino set, Raptor Chase, when this set has 65 more pieces, an extra raptor, an extra minifigure, and a motorcycle. Oh, and it's a licensed IP as well which of course increases the price. I'm sure if you weighed the set it's cost per ounce would be right there with most of the other sets being released. People just seem to forget those big molded creatures, like a raptor, is probably the weight of 20-30 pieces (if not more when you get into the smaller ones like headlights and such).

Ahh, back to wish list posts. Wonderful...