swils

Okay, so you and I were on the same page at that point. Then I had to go back and double check my facts and get myself all confused, heh. Using the simulation-godfather-claim and the reported scum-list from the simulation was just my response to his assumption that As he was saying that godfather must be mutually exclusive to killer. Of course, since it turns out I was remembering things wrong, I think we should definitely stop using information from the simulation to judge the current situation! Yup! Really though, I still don't think we should assume that a town investigation (read: godfather) is 100% proof that the investigated isn't a killer.

Oh my, I just re-checked myself and saw that the list of simulation scum, as presented to us, included both a godfather and a killer. I guess you can discount that point. Well, maybe not entirely discount disregard it, but at least not consider it a solid part of the point I'm trying to make.

Sorry, between your wording and mine, I'm not entirely sure which way you're leaning/suggesting. Could I pester you to clarify what exactly it wouldn't be the first time for?

Apparently I missed that happening, heh.

Ah, okay, I must have missed the emphasis on that. Humor me... what if I was making that same statement about you? In my opinion, I am town, and since you weren't blocked, you could very well be the only one who is left, yes (well, alongside me, I suppose)? As per the godfather theory, the investigation would turn out as a Loyalist, so your clearance by investigation would be nulled. Additionally, if you combine the list of Purist roles from the simulation, provided by Burbank a few days back, with the fact that Wheeler claimed he was the godfather in the simulation, well, there's a distinct lack of non-PR roles in that Purist line up, so it seems unreasonable to assume that the godfather couldn't be the killer, right?

Scene fades to a martial combat training room, where a team of heroes are preparing to face off against a fierce Melee Trainer. "Sun's out, guns out, boys! Let's take him down!" Thormanil drops his Tailblade and... BONK! "What the..?" He picks up a small envelope, one that seems to have appeared from nowhere and with the sole purpose of smacking him in the face. He only slightly abuses the fact that talking is a free action in order to dictate a reply to be sent via the Z-mail service. "Ms Ziegfried, if you wouldn't mind relaying this to the Dragonlord, I'd be awful grateful! Ahem.. 'Dragonlord, I've had a real blast fightin' with all these folk under the Heroica banner. I've got to thank ya for reigniting this institution! Here I thought that having a license to knock bad folk around like ragdolls was plenty of reward in itself, but now yer givin' us a chance at some new toys to boot? Can't argue with that! And before I forget, here's a ticket. Come to daddy, you lovely little ammy!" Turning his attention back to the battle, he attacks from the back row. Aaaand... scene!

If I recall correctly, it is only a two-week suspension (a time during which he was going to be mostly unavailable anyway due to ISP server malfunctions or some such), and it was issued about/at least a week ago already.

"Sun's out, guns out, boys! Let's take him down!" Thormanil drops his Tailblade and... BONK! "What the..?" He picks up a small envelope, one that seems to have appeared from nowhere and with the sole purpose of smacking him in the face. He only slightly abuses the fact that talking is a free action in order to dictate a reply to be sent via the Z-mail service. "Ms Ziegfried, if you wouldn't mind relaying this to the Dragonlord, I'd be awful grateful! Ahem.. 'Dragonlord, I've had a real blast fightin' with all these folk under the Heroica banner. I've got to thank ya for reigniting this institution! Here I thought that having a license to knock bad folk around like ragdolls was plenty of reward in itself, but now yer givin' us a chance at some new toys to boot? Can't argue with that! And before I forget, here's a ticket. Come to daddy, you lovely little ammy!" Turning his attention back to the battle, he attacks from the back row.

Okay then, let's get into this. Why did I pop in to vote for Hornby when there's still plenty of time? Simple! I had a few spare minutes to check in and did have reasonable suspicions about Hornby (see below), but didn't have time to elaborate on them right then. On the other I didn't want to give Holloway another hollow (heh) point against me, in the form of 'voting late' or bandwagoning, or similar. That explains the timing, I hope, before anyone asks. Now, as for the reasoning: I can understand and appreciate the cases that Hornby has made against Holloway and Jones. For a fairly important town role to shift hands midway through this crisis, it's ever so slightly suspicious, moreso when none of the results can actually be confirmed without having to kill off a supposed Loyalist. Then there's the alternate source of the leak (from Hornby's view), Holloway, whose fishing the other day warranted not only my, but plenty of others' suspicions. And when you consider that Holloway tried to have Wilder kill off Hornby, well, it doesn't look good for Holloway. But, maybe, just maybe, Holloway had the right idea. Of all the many roles a purist could claim, it seems to me that the protector is, by far, the easiest to emulate. Hypothetically speaking, for Hornby to maintain the guise of protector each day, all he'd have to do would be to make sure that his team's killer doesn't target the person he is supposed to protect that night. It'd be as easy as that. Person lives? No reason to question his claim! There are ways to test it, sure. Maybe he's supposed to protect Wilder one night, but can't/doesn't, and Wilder tries to kill da bomb. There's some ways to get around that one though (I was blocked! comes to mind). Even if he gets exposed through the previous situation, the town had to lose their vig to prove it. Unless Hornby is the Purists' killer, then that trade was horribly tipped in the Purists' favor. What if Hornby is instructed to protect a specific player, but to test his role, Wilder chooses to also try to kill that person without telling Hornby? There's very few outcomes which could be beneficial for the Loyalists. It really is just a near-perfect claim for a Purist to make. Especially at this point, it will be very difficult to verify the claim in any sort of efficient manner. An investigation might not even really help; what if Hornby is the godfather? It's still as simple as him telling his team "Okay, I'm supposed to protect _____ tonight, so don't kill them." I'm very open to being convinced otherwise, but of the three potential leaks (assuming that Wilder isn't sabotaging his own agenda), this seems like the least stretch of a case to be made. Holloway, let me turn back to you. I still don't understand why you're jumping down my throat. You don't seem to have any tangible evidence against me, just your personal analysis method. I could almost just swap your name for my own in your accusations thus far and they'd still 'work', just against you instead of me. While just the other day you were complaining about being a vanilla townie out of the loop, it seems as though you knew a lot more than you were letting on (and that seems to have gotten you entangled in a fair bit of trouble, what with this mole business). But now that there's actually a fair bit of information out in the open, I really can't see the rationale behind your case. It's like you've got a bad case of tunnel vision. As has been mentioned, there's a chance that a conversion happened on N4. How many people on your list would that affect, how many investigation results could have been nullified by that? You don't have to actually answer that or tell me, but think about it. And there's the chance that one of those confirmed loyalists is actually just the godfather who investigated as town (I'm pretty sure that's been mentioned before, but it bears repeating). For you to ignore the fact that a reasonable chunk of your list might well be un-cleared by two likely scenarios, just to bear down on Hornby and I? And to say that I'm the better target just because I'm vanilla? I'm not trying to discredit your suspicions, you're entitled to them. But please, help me understand why you're so hellbent on me, beyond just "my analysis method", so that I can try to alleviate some of your concern.

Shhh! Don't tell the Admiral I'm here! I snuck away from the engineering deck but I only have a moment... Vote: Lieutenant Thomas Hornby (Shadows) I've got to get back to the deck before I'm found out, but mark my words, I'll be back in/within 7 hours to give my reasoning!

Actually, sort of. I went to bed ready to wake up and say "So basically your accusation against me is 'Based on a bunch of information (which I'm not going to share), I think you two are the killers.", but now you just went and shot a hole straight through that. You'll really have to forgive me, but I need to get back to the engineering bay for the day. Try not to have too much fun 'til my duties are done for the day? And, quickly, When "the accused" is someone that the town core is all giggling to themselves about, and all seem to believe to be a solid lead, then yes, it is rather scummy to be trying to get that name out in the open early so that they can defend themselves. Hornby and (Fugazi) didn't try to find out the name of the supposed-surefire-scum.

I figured you were, but just felt like being quick. I -did- grab a quote, it is in fact quoted right there in my post. It's the fancy box. It's not quoted, but that's because I didn't prepare my speech on the forums, and thus couldn't multiquote (I still can't quite get the hang of pulling a quote out of a locked thread ). Like I said, there's the chance that York was cleared and I'm just not in the know. If so, why not tell me as much? It would certainly prevent wasting further effort on him. And if I really need to go and pull more quotes to build a case... York was on the chopping block right up until the stump's revelation. It was Burbank or York. Then it was York. Then it was Gordon via near-divine intervention. Then York just got cocky and annoying and no one has bothered him since (and that's what makes me suspect I might be 100% wrong and that she got cleared). But if you are really trying to suggest that there isn't already a case against York (in so much as the public has information), then... /shrug. It was indeed a summary, but it was a summary with my own thoughts attached. See, if I'd just said that I thought Jones(Masked) was suspicious, you'd have asked me for examples. Instead, I gave an example--his distinctly brief dismissal of the suspicions raised against you. Also, my attempt to appear as though I'm being kept in the dark? I am being kept in the dark. I've spoken with fhomess in private, and did raise the point that, without information from the inner circle, I feel less than useful. He basically told me that there's plenty of people under suspicion, myself included, and that I would remain in the dark, but shouldn't count on the town PR's to do my work for me. You know how that feels, you said so yourself just yesterday. Want me to grab that quote? Added as double post: I said fhomess instead of Wilder

Pardon?

Fear not, I didn't forget about my promise. I’ll be honest, I’d had a sneaking suspicion that McAndrews and Walters were in League (pun alert) for a while. It seemed like Walters was frequently stepping in on McAndrews’ behalf whenever I tried to raise a case against him. I’ve said it before, my accusations/suspicions were getting blown off and it was discouraging, to say the least, to see that happening. Here we had someone who appeared to be taking the reigns on lynches and behind-the-scenes coordination, and they were repeatedly steering us wrong. Okay, so it turns out I was dead wrong. Apparently, we all make mistakes. Speaking of mistakes, that brings me to our alleged vig, Wilder (I trust your word here, but since I can’t truly verify… “alleged” stands). He’s zero for five on successful Purist kills at night. However, he’s been in contact with (and thus, I assume, taking advice from) Gordon since Day 2, so I can’t really dump all the blame on him. Gordon had a lot of us fooled, apparently. Had I been in the loop last night, I would have wholeheartedly supported the Wilders kill, for reasons as I mentioned above (although, if McAndrews had made the suggestion, then I’d have some pause). He’s also stepped up to lead a few lynch-attempts. Ultimately, I believe that Wilder is doing the best he can given the circumstances (even if his best has been kind of sucky! ) Mmm.. on to other things. Daly(Rufus), Hornby(Shadows), Vanderbilt(Fugazi) and Wheeler(Inconspicuous). They haven’t really been at the forefront of everything, nor have they consistently jumped on the wagons. Not too much to say, because I’m just not sure. We’ve all jumped on people who’ve flipped town, so I can’t just pick any of these folks’ accusations and say “Look! Look how wrong he was!” etc. More of the same for Francis(Awesome), Harper(Dragonator) and Jones(Masked), except this bunch has been a lot quieter. …Too quiet! I jest. Buuuut… let’s look at what happened yesterday. Holloway(WBD) contacted a lot of us, and it seems that in most cases, he was fishing for role claims. Wilder brought it up and many people obliged his request for opinions. *Most of the replies were brief, but had at least some reasoning. *Jones only said that he didn’t see Holloway as scummy with no explanation, nor did he comment on why he didn’t see ‘scum’ from some of the arguments being raised against Holloway. Just “Nope, move along.” *York(CJP) went from seeing Holloway as trying to help, to being suspicious and suggesting that he was, in fact, acting scummy. Okay, maybe he was just swayed by others’ reasonings. *Neither Daly nor Harper commented on it at all, though perhaps they were just cut off by the Rockford incident. Speaking of the Rockford Incident… this is obviously (I mean really, really obviously) the ‘confirmed purist’ that was mentioned very early in the day. It seems that the core held off on releasing too much information too soon, so that they could raise the Holloway issue before we all got handed our next lynch candidate. Reasonable enough. However, who was jumping at the bit for information regarding this supposed ‘confirmed purist’? Why, York was! I hope we haven’t all forgotten that, up until Burbank got lynched and Gordon was rootraped by the all-telling stump, York was really digging a hole for himself? I haven’t. Granted, she’s been getting on my nerves, but I promise this is about more than just shutting her up! Maybe she has been investigated and cleared since then, and I’m just dead wrong again. But I still definitely have my suspicions. Aaaand.. deep breath. Okay. Now, without stringing me up by my neck, let’s hear your thoughts!

Mmm, touche. Give me a few hours to finish up with all this engineering stuff and I'll do just that! I look forward to eventually hearing gours as well, i hope.

Either you've got some really deep, involved theories, or you're a really slow analyst

Ah, so it was just like I guessed yesterday--I was quite dead wrong and everyone was right to blow me off

Welp, so much for my theory that McAndrews was stringing us along this whole time. Drat.

"Or at the very least, keep singing while I expend 4 ether to heal my friends, hah! My apologies, folks, I don't know where my head's been.. maybe I'm deathly afraid of heights and just never knew it before!"

I know you're trying to be funny, but you should really just... not. The stump saved you from certain death (/shakesfist), and you've just been a smug annoyance since then.

Can't argue with the logic. Does the Ensign have anything to say for himself? Vote: Ensign Toby Rockford (darkdragon)

Thormanil attacks Ether Eye (Angeli D. Row) from the front row with his Thundering Totem, while trying to float nearby Arasmyth (if that's still needed).

Congratulations, indeed, CM! My cousin is expecting in the next few weeks (first in our generation of the family tree), so I can at least relate to the excitement a little bit. So what if she's in New Zealand and I'm in Alaska? [mirror]OMG OMG OMG! [/mirror] I do hope Thormanil is back in the Hall in time to participate. I really do hope

Well, at least don't leave me all alone on the engineering deck. It gets lonely! Sometimes when I'm up there, I'd swear I hear tree stumps laughing maniacally. Tree stumps!

"exact-right", "reasonable"... tomayto, tomahto, right? Dropping communications after not getting any success from fishing for a role claim, that's the only thing that really got me. It seemed discussion worthy at least (especially with the lack of other talk, as I'd mentioned)