Quisoves Pugnat
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Everything posted by Quisoves Pugnat
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Characters in Bionicle definitely age. The Shadowed One was aged by Voporak's time field (three thousand years apparently meant something to him,) Raanu and Ackar are more aged than the other inhabitants of Bara Magna that we saw, and Gresh is one of the youngest of that lot. Just because Bionicle characters take longer than we do doesn't mean they don't age, in the same way that we still age despite doing so at a much slower rate than most other animals.
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Forever, barring accidents. :P There, now that I've got the obligatory reference out of the way, Bionicles do age, albeit very slowly (Time Trap confirms this.) Which rather explains the voices. Takua may simply not be physically old enough to sound older than a human adolescent. That said, it's quite probable that the MU inhabitants' voices are synthesized, in which case they never change, except by transformation.
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I could see Lewa's axe-blades doubling as wings. I'm not certain about Onua's hammer though, given that the same piece also forms his shoulder-armor. EDIT: @GK733 Shovels make sense. That would be neat callback to his original form.
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Speaking of the story, a user on another forum noticed that the upper left-hand corner of Pohatu's package-art portrays what would seem to be two celestial bodies. Now, this may simply be a coincidence, but their sizes (one quite large, the other considerably smaller) suggest Bara Magna and Bota Magna. If that is what they are, then that does seem to confirm a reboot of continuity. Granted, they could be hitherto unmentioned moons of Spherus Magna, but the size of the left one makes that seem somewhat unlikely. If they are the those two Magnae, that does not mean that the new Bionicle is necessarily going to end up where the old one did, but it could be a nice little easter-egg for longtime fans. That is, of course, if they have any significance whatsoever. But then, Bionicle has demonstrated a penchant for including seemingly accidental features which are actually relevant to the larger plot (e.g. Metru Nui's twin suns.)
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But did you really need to fully comprehend what was happening to appreciate the story? Were the TV commercials any less accessible than those from 2001? Just because back-story exists doesn't mean it is perpetually relevant. Blink sits upon more than twenty-five years of Doctor Who continuity, yet you don't need to know any of it to appreciate the story.
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I'm curious as to why this was supposedly the case. Despite, or perhaps because of, the oft repeated nature of the claim, no-one ever seems to give any examples of problems with plot accessibility.
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So it is the Mask of Creation. Fascinating. I wonder if the fact that Artahka had such a mask in the original story is relevant, or if it would have been so yclept regardless. It would be amusing if an element from the supplemental materials (Bionicle World and the serials, I think) influenced the new story. I'm not against it doing so, but given the criticisms often leveled at Bionicle's story, it would be unexpected. It will be a pity if the masks attach by clips alone, but que cera cera. I'll take what I can get, which, from what I've seen of the leaked set images, is more than I would have hoped for. As for Greg's limited involvement in the story, how is it that different than before? Aside from convincing LEGO to extend Bionicle beyond one year (if TVTropes is to be believed,) he was only ever one out of several persons on a story council, which itself merely determined how the overarching story of Faber et al. played out. Yes, he was the head writer, but that's not the same thing as shaping the direction of the story or building the bulk of its fictional world. The main difference will be that of writing style and quality, given that Bionicle's story will probably be primarily told through a television show, and Greg isn't a scriptwriter (as far as I know.) Sadly, given the precedents of Ninjago and Chima, I'm none too hopeful for the quality of the story material. Though who knows, perhaps we'll get lucky, perhaps the alien nature of Bionicle will attract some genuinely talented writers. If only they'd get Robert Shearman on board. But then, what are the odds of that? HINT: Not very likely.
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It occurs to me that having a Bionicle TV-show would rather change the way that certain aspects of the lore are looked at. Something like Tren Krom, who seems to be viewed by many as a pointless complication, would, by virtue of being part of the mainstream story, have the chance to be a beloved side character like Dareth from Ninjago. There would be far less of a dichotomy between the main story and the side storylines, since just about any television show needs filler material. Also, if Ninjago is any indicator, Bionicle wouldn't come under fire quite so often for purported continuity obsession.
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Quite true. Jaller's temporary death doesn't really make MoL especially dark. But combine it with the other two elements I mentioned, and while it's obviously still family-friendly, it's not a light-hearted romp. Though of course, Bionicle was never Blade Runner, so searching for dark elements is not going to yield a plethora of them (certainly no more than the Star Wars films, I think.)
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What about the second half of 2003, with Ta-Koro being destroyed, Tahu going mad and turning on his teammates, and Jaller dying (albeit only temporarily?)
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Fire emits light, but isn't light. Almost all the other things you mentioned are logical extensions of power over light, and have been confirmed canonically as possible. Shadow, however, doesn't merely mean the absence of light in the Bionicle universe. Yes, Takanuva can absorb light, but the Shadow the Makuta used is some sort of energy, apparently inimical to most light, hence its name.
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Except that this hasn't come out of nowhere. Only seven days ago, we had the reveal of the Bionicle Product Page placard (apparently uploaded the same day.) Combining that with the statement that the NYC reveal is of a "brand new theme," I am inclined to think that LEGO has been planning this all along. This doesn't mean that Bionicle won't have a presence at Comic-Con, but I imagine that LEGO would not want two major reveals to occur right on top of each other.
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Whatever form the heads take, it seems, on the basis of the Jungle Protector, that they will be monochrome. Look at the bit just under the E in "Confidential."
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That's presuming that "Krata" is a misspelling, which we have no proof for, especially when it refers to a great big spider, not a slug-like creature.
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Well, this is exciting! My opinions on the Toa have definitely improved, and the Protectors continue to look promising, though I'm not certain a $10.00 price-point is justified for them. Tahu and Kopaka seem to be the only Toa with obvious callbacks to their previous forms, while the others are unrecoginizable. Not that I mind, as long as the models are good. Gali looks much better up-close, though rather oddly menacing (shades of Takadox, for sure.) Lewa looks pretty good, though I don't think I'm the only one surprised by his mask. Who thought it would look so porcine? I'm still not certain as to what those horn-like things are. Kopaka, if the comments here are anything to go by, is shaping up to be the marmite Toa. I like him, though I can see why some don't. He looks like a winter-warrior. Onua looks like an impressive build, though rather oddly bulky as Toa go (though if this is a complete reboot, that may not matter.) He definitely seems to have some sort of Technic, function, for which I am excited. Pohatu looks the least impressive, and is probably the set with the least value-for-money. That said, he's not bad. He seems to harken back to the first wave of 2008. His boomerangs are reminiscent of his Phantoka form's propellers, and his Kanohi looks like a cross between Photok's and Solek's. Tahu looks at once quite ordinary and yet remarkable. Not a bad set by any means. He seems like this wave's golden mean. Skull Krata is not as complex as I'd hoped, and his face is too stylized for my tastes. He could be worse, though. All in all, I like the direction of this first new wave of Bionicle. It certainly blends tribal ambiance and advanced technology, like 2001, but does so in a new way, the way a good reboot should. This also promises a CCBS with increased Technic-interactivity, for which I am very happy. The box-art is also quite striking, conveying the feel of this wave rather well. It all seems so alien and yet so familiar. P.S. The Skull Spiders are, amusingly, bone-heads. #VOODOOMASTER2015 confirmed. :P
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I find the idea of the Defenders as opposed to the Toa somewhat unlikely. I suppose that they might initially clash with the Toa, and the Toa might have to prove themselves in some way, but I doubt it would be anything more than that. The Toa (and their Bara Magna analogues, the Glatorian,) have always protected villagers, and I imagine that would be an element that LEGO would be keen to retain. It was always appealing to have, in addition to the powerful heroes, more of an everyman kind of character. In fact, that's one of the reasons MNOG worked so well. LEGO changing that element would be like removing the Toa team dynamic.
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The only way I could see this working was if each "Defender" included a random mask in addition to whatever mask is shown on the box. Otherwise you'd have complaints from customers about the box-art not matching up with the actual set. Granted, LEGO did randomize the Krana, but they were beneath the hoods of the Bohrok, and didn't drastically alter the appearance of the sets.
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About the names, is there a precedent for Bionicle sets to have considerably different monikers between countries? While "Lord of the [skull, mask, what-you-might] Spiders" is a conceivable break with tradition, combine that with the "defenders"/"protectors of [element]" and the "[Toa], Master of [element]" system, and you've got a very strangely named line of Bionicle sets. Since this is a relaunch, I understand that such things are very much subject to change, but it just doesn't jive with me. Granted, Hero Factory did something like that this year, but that was because all the sets were either battle-machines or beasts. Prior to that, most of the Hero Factory sets had unique names, albeit often with some obvious derivation from English (but then, Bionicle did this in its later years.)
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Hero Factory has shown us that Lego is willing to make constraction figures with metallic-grey coloring (Iron, mayhaps?) Orange and white coloring (Plasma, canonically,) gunmetal grey and orange (Iron comes to mind, again, as does magnetism,) and yellow (new color for lightning?) So I think that there is a real possibility that we will see secondary-elemental characters. I doubt that LEGO would actually market a set with the powers of psionics (no physical powers with which to fight, probably a downside in the eyes of much of the target audience,) but Sonics, Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity/Lightning, and Plasma were all used for the Bohrok-Kal, so LEGO might well be willing to employ them again, should they decide to venture outside the traditional Bionicle color-scheme. Plant-Life and Iron also seem like good bets. I don't see LEGO being so traditionalist as to cease being adventuresome with the color-schemes. Sure, they'll stick to the originals for the first wave, but once they introduce new Toa, I won't be surprised if we get a Toa of Plasma
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Greg didn't plan the main story. The main story was plotted out by the story team. Greg's remark about "making it up as I go along" primarily referred to the serials, since he had virtually free-rein over the directions they took. Indeed, it seems to me that most of the major criticisms of his work are aimed at the serials. I suspect that if Bionicle Story.com had never existed, he would be more fondly remembered in certain sections of Bionicle fandom. What did you dislike about it? I thought it was rather in keeping with Mata Nui as a giant robot and the Bionicles as his micro-fauna.
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Bionicle's story was no doubt an important part of the line. I would be the last person to deny that. There were however, different levels on which one could enjoy the story. Simply because someone followed the comics didn't mean that he followed the books. Otherwise, the comics would have become redundant between 2004-2008, no? The books were, in my view, supplements to the story told in the comics, advertisements, etc. Bionicle didn't have the same relation to its books that Ninjago and Chima do to their respective TV shows. Television is, for LEGO's target audience, more accessible than books. Not all of the target audience is going to be willing to seek out and read a book based on a LEGO theme, whereas most of it will have little hesitation to tune in to a TV show based on that theme. As a result, I think, Bionicle's books contributed less to the overall success of the line than the Ninjago show has to its parent line. Speaking of television shows, it occurs to me that since they seem to be the order of the day for major LEGO themes, the presumed existence of a Bionicle show would result in a different kind of relationship between story-loving and set-loving. Since the main story would be more accessible, there would no longer be such a risk of a divide between those who enjoy the story and those who buy the sets. LEGO wouldn't need to split its focus. I agree that a reboot likely the best course of action. However, I think it should be like Doctor Who's television reboot, not like a comic-book continuity reboot. Fair enough. Perhaps that wasn't the best example. True, but I doubt that LEGO had an agile female Dark Hunter with a mechanical right arm in mind when it approved the name "Lariska." If what I understand is correct, then Greg probably took from the list of approved names. For all I know, it might have become the name of one of the Barraki had he not used it. Though I don't know enough about the list to say for sure. And I agree the story was supposed to support the sets and expand upon the universe. I never said that there should have been a disconnect, simply that there was a hierarchy of the relevancy of story and media, and that the books were not at the top of that hierarchy. They were still important, but I doubt that LEGO ever intended the casual buyer to actually know of Karzahni's history with the Toa Mahri. He didn't even look like his prose description, save for his wearing a cape. If LEGO had really cared about the continuity of the books, then Karzahni would have been made recognizable to those who had read about him. By the same token, the fact that LEGO even released a set named Karzahni which resembled his book form in even the remotest of ways suggests that they didn't ignore the books altogether. I'd say that the books were in the middle of the hierarchy. It may not be a comprehensive look at the property, but where reboots are concerned, that which builds on the base elements is not necessarily going to be retained. So while a Transformers reboot is likely going to have callbacks to and take inspiration from past iterations of the franchise, this is never a guarantee. What about David Tennant? He seems like he'd have just the right mix of hyperactivity and somberness.
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<p> You misunderstand my point. I wasn't comparing the lore, I was comparing the basic premises. My point is that Transformers can be rebooted with more ease than can Bionicle. A new Transformers continuity, theoretically, need only hinge on the premise of alien battle-robots who transform into vehicles. A Bionicle reboot has to hinge on the premise of sapient, biomechanical, nanotechnology designed by organic beings for some purpose or other. As I said before, it's hardly a labyrinthine premise, but it does require a bit more thought than that of Transformers. Of course they expected the books to be bought and read, in the same way they would have expected consumers to buy and drink from a line of Bionicle ceramic mugs, and to continue to do so if the line was popular. That doesn't mean that they intended a majority of those who bought the sets to buy the books. In fact, if I recall correctly, certain countries didn't even have the books. As for the promotional materials not matching up, that was rather to my point. If LEGO though that minutiae of the story were so vital, then why did it allow a commercial from the theme's final year to completely misstate the story scenario? Why did it allow Air elementals to be marketed in Russia as Jungle characters? Just because they only appeared in books does not mean that they were intended to only do so. Nor does it mean that LEGO intended most consumers to know of the characters to which they were attached. And it is perfectly possible that they thought the money spent on them would be recouped by the money gained from book sales. Not knowing the figures, I can't say. When you have a media juggernaut like Bionicle, such extravagances can seem feasible. But Boneheads of Voodoo island wasn't Bionicle. It was intended to be a flash-in-the-pan item that sold well for a single summer. It was only when Christian Faber was contemplating the integration of the toy canisters into the story that Dooheads became Bionicle. Prior to that, there was no Great Spirit Mata Nui. Indeed, the idea of the characters biomechanical certainly isn't suggested by the name "Boneheads of Voodoo Island." That name suggests to me magically animated skeletons. Which was, for all I know, what they were intended to be, prior to Faber's flash of inspiration.
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You use the word "readers," which seems to suggest that LEGO expected most of those who purchased Bionicle sets to buy the books. I never got the impression that this was so. I'm curious. What minutiae are you referring to? Do you think that someone new to Bionicle would be confused by the comics? What evidence do you have that LEGO thought that the books would be purchased by a majority of Bionicle's audience? I'm sorry for the barrage of questions, it's simply that I never got the impression that Bionicle as seen in the books was anything but a fleshing out of Bionicle as marketed. And I don't see how Bionicle as marketed was terribly convoluted or obsessed with its own continuity. Certainly not when, in its final year, it featured a commercial stating that the Stars were "reawakened from centuries of slumber." But if the story skeleton is so easy to create, then why not apply it to a new theme? Mask-quests can be used in any number of stories. So why risk disappointing those in the target audience who actually read up on older LEGO themes? And I don't really think that Transformers is a fair comparison. Transformers are, basically, transforming alien robots. Bionicle, basically, is slightly more complicated. Not labyrinthine, but not quite so simple.
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Can you please elaborate on this statement? The story generally seems to me to have been shaped to fit the year's theme and set designs. I doubt that 2007 was set underwater because the story team said "You know, it makes perfect sense that after defeating Vezon, the Toa Inika should travel beneath the sea to find the Ignika all over again!" I rather imagine that 2007 was set underwater because the powers that be thought that customers would think it was cool. But then why make it Bionicle? Why not continue Hero Factory? Why not make an entirely new theme? If LEGO is calling the theme Bionicle, then it must have some connection to the original beyond the elemental abilities (which Hero Factory also had) and the mask motif. Make no mistake, I am not advocating that the new Bionicle start where "The Yesterday Quest" left off. I simply don't see what purpose ignoring the original eight-and-a-half years of story has if not to retell them. I'm not objectively opposed to doing that, mind you, but I don't see how it works from a marketing standpoint.
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That's a highly debatable statement. Provided the new Bionicle doesn't become obsessed with its own continuity, then I don't see why it couldn't offer up fresh storyline after fresh storyline. So it uses the same characters, that doesn't mean that you need to know their entire history to understand them sufficiently. Newcomers in 2008 certainly didn't need to know that Tahu once went mad after being poisoned by a Rahkshi, only that he was an elementally powered hero tasked with reawakening the Great Spirit Mata Nui. I certainly don't need to know a person's entire life-story to be friends with him. The original Bionicle, I think, managed itself nicely that way, with the possible exception of 2005 The story accumulated, but you could appreciate the immediate story without knowing what came before it. The Bohrok were threatening to destroy the entire island of Mata Nui, the Barraki were battling the Toa Mahri for possession of a mask needed to save the universe, the Toa Nuva were trying to awaken Mata Nui, Glatorian were fighters on a desert world threatened by an army of enemies and saved by a mysterious alien being, etc. Further examination would yield that the Bohrok were distracting the Toa from awakening Mata Nui, that the Toa Mahri had already fought the Piraka for the Mask of Life, that the Toa Nuva had needed Mata Nui's life saved before they awakened him, that the mysterious savior of Bara Magna was once a planet-sized robot with sapient nano-technology inside of him. But you only needed the basics, what you'd get in the set advertisements. Regardless of whether the story became "bloated," it was never an issue for newcomers. I think that if the original story managed it for eight-and-a-half years, then so can a revived series. Also, I'm curious as to how advocates of a continuity-reboot think that LEGO would manage such a thing, given that the Big Story Engine is out of the bag. I suppose that they could make the characters fully aware of Mata Nui's nature, but that might only serve to confuse newcomers.
