MetroiD

Oooh great, I could hardly wait for this one!!! 1. In brief, I've played 3 Mafia games: Scouty's Imperial Soldier's Mafia, your Fabuland Housewives and badboy's Yakuza Mafia and have ended up on the winning side on all three occasions, although I was shot down as Betsy Bunny in Fabuland Housewives. I've presented a short summary of those games through my own eyes on my profile page. 2. No conflicts whatsoever, I'll be 100% available. 3. I'd go with Bob's roleclaim on the last day of the Yakuza Mafia. Or rather, roleclaims, since there's hardly something he didn't claim. In terms of serious / effective roleclaims though, I thought Draggy did an absolutely great job in Baritones 3.

Well for starters, for an ambitious train line aimed towards train collectors, as this one was generally conceived, it had the 3-year lifespan of a LEGO set... The fact that the plug was pulled on it so quickly suggests that something was inherently wrong not just with the set designs, but also with the entire premise on which it was based as well. From what I've heard (conveniently enough, the My Own Train times coincided with my Dark Ages), the My Own Train sets were never particularly good sellers, even though there were umpteen of them available in all sorts of various combos. Considering how those were generally geared towards adult Train fans, their build was obviously way too basic and undetailed and had little improvements over the 'regular' 9V designs - which I'm sure must have contributed. Add to that the fact that pretty much each car had a different colour, not to mention the ludicrous idea of having the exact same engine available with just slight colouring alterations and marketed as different sets, which didn't make for a very 'adult' train experience either - yet contributed to substantially increasing production costs which were then never covered by ample sales. I'm obviously not an employee of TLG so would have no way of substantiating my presumption regarding the financial downfall of the My Own Train line, but I guess the most obvious sign that something didn't go quite right there was the fact that after the line was cancelled, retailers still had plenty of those sets lying around and were in a huge hurry to get rid of them ASAP (same as the case with the Santa Fe cars) - which led to serious discounts on sets that would in time become pretty darn valuable... Don't get me wrong, personally I have no gripe with the MOT line whatsoever and would have been more than happy to buy quite a few of those sets - some I found well designed, but most would go just for MOCcing purposes. I do believe that if given some more time and deliberation, it could have been a bit more successful. I don't believe it could have been successful enough to warrant replacing the currently available Exclusives Train sets though. ...Aaaand we now seem to have successfully derailed the topic from its original intent. Sorry for that, Andy. I hope we can continue discussing the "Buy"-triggering factors now.

Gryphon Ink, you seem to have gotten a bit overly excited about something that never was about "winning the Internets" in the first place. Besides, I really don't get what the problem is, the Emerald Night and the Maersk Train are easily within the suggested range (100 - 120 USD) - so there's your "entry" train, and it even doesn't have to be semi-crippled. If you want something else / more, you just need to pay 9 USD more for the Passenger Train Set. If, however, there's still some reason due to which you don't want to buy said Train set, that's probably not directly related to LEGO's pricing policy, and has more to do with your self-imposed limit on buying sets that cost over 100 USD. At the end of the day though, with those sets you easily get substantially more value for your money than with any one of the smaller sets, so I don't see what's the problem in passing up a few small sets in order to just save up for something that costs 20 USD over your limit. The point that Steinkopf was trying to make was that TLG would be hard-pressed to come up with any sort of viable motorized train set under the price point of 100 USD (or 100 EUR, for that matter). On the other hand, the point you made about TLG actually making money on train sets if they "lower the entry cost" would suggest either producing a substantially inferior product, or reintroducing a policy that TLG have officially abandoned - I'm talking about the "My Own Train" line which offered LEGO customers the option to buy different sorts of engines (well, one in different colours), and cars for those. It was, as you're probably aware, a financial disaster for LEGO. So back to the initial assumption - your only hope is for TLG to start producing Chinese-quality toys, since considering the current product manufacturing and development costs the company has, suggesting you'd gladly pay $100 USD for a LEGO set with "just an engine and one car, a basic track layout and PF setup", as you put it, really sounds rather humorous, shall we say - as you did notice yourself. At the end of the day, what's crucial here is that AFOLs use LEGO as a means for building train layouts for a reason. If all we wanted was train models, we could easily have started an N-, H0, O- or some-other-gauge layout and bought our products from Roco, Hornby, Märklin, Lionel, etc. At subsantially higher prices, I might add. A huge percentage of AFOL Train enthusiasts though find pleasure in the unique element of MOCcing, and I believe that TLG have finally realised that with their train products, aiming towards adult train hobbyists and still having a "toy"-priced product (as opposed to e.g. Hornby, Märklin, Lionel, etc.) would be immensely difficult. So what they're doing is primarily focusing on kids, like they should, and making sure they still have about enough of an offering on the market for AFOLs to build what they really desire. Which, if you ask me, is a very smart business model, and one that is exactly conceived in order to make sure that the entry level price for LEGO Trains is substantially lower than it would be for similar products. Notwithstanding the above, TLG have separately also introduced the Exclusives line and offered AFOL Train fans (at least) two gorgeous train sets at very decent prices. We really just couldn't / shouldn't ask for much more - or at least that's how I feel.

Stabbin Town is looking very well so far. If I could suggest something, it would be to go back to the "Garden Grove" roots and include some green plots here and there; even at this size a city needs those, so a central park would fit in great there. I was also wondering - is that glossy paper you've used to print the streets on? It works just a fine and looks like a great solution.

What an awesome lighthouse... The glow effect is absolutely magnificient and I'm looking forward to your video already - having the light spin would really be a nice effect! Also, great job on that boat as well - a lovely idea and design!

Not without your jockstrap you ain't!

Veeery nice! I must agree with LMM, the red wheels / red body combo really works great, and, of course, the engine itself is a beaut! I'm planning on building a GWR 2884 later on, so I'll definitely be using your GWR MOCs as a great source of inspiration.

That school's tres cool! Well done :] I especially like the side facade and, obviously, the detailed interiors. I'm wondering how you display that - considering how schoolyards often times are a school's prominent feature, have you MOCced-up some more of this one's schoolyard or is that it?

Well by now, I most definitely do not. Good riddance, right...

Based predominantly on originality, my vote goes to: 2) The ski jump in Holmenkollen in Oslo (Sleepyhead) Entry (Build by Cecilie) - 1 point 7) Art Deco (Flamenco Dancer) Entry (Build by lisqr) - 1 point 15) Through the Wormhole (Celtic Warrior) Entry (Build by Space Terrapin) - 1 point

11) Alien Entry (Build by Darth Yogi) - 1 point 14) Mechanic Entry (Build by Yatkuu) - 1 point 27) Flamenco Dancer Entry (Build by Skafte) - 1 point Well done, that's yet one more great CM contest!

I currently own the following trains: ATSF Super Chief BNSF GP-38 Emerald Night Hogwarts Express I've kept the first three intact and am planning on running them all for a long time to come. The last one I bought just for its 9V motor and the decent amount of train-specific parts. The next train set I'll buy will be the Maersk Train, after which I'd like to ensure proper motorization with rechargeable PF batteries for the EN and the MT. I am also currently in the process of slowly procuring the vast amount of bricks required to build a sufficient number of Santa Fe cars; a couple more EN cars, as well as cargo cars for the BNSF GP-38. Other than that, I might also get the Metroliner at some point in the future. I also own a Monorail set, but I haven't put together the original Airport Shuttle since I'm not too keen on its appearance. Instead, I've already got a bunch of MOCs lined up, including but not limited to: a monorail train based on a subway train; two 9V trams; one DMU, one diesel shunter and one steam train. That should give me 3 passenger trains (Santa Fe, EN and a DMU), 3 freight trains (BNSF, 1 shunter, 1 steamer); 3 public transportation trains (monorail / subway + 2 trams). Based on my calculation, that leaves me with space for one more PF MOC (fourth channel on the IR controller ), and I'd rather keep that option open until I'm done with all of the other stuff I've planned to build. Besides, I think that once I'm done with all these, I'll probably start limiting myself as to what Train sets I'll be buying the future. That said, I definitely can't imagine missing out on any Exclusive Train set...

Ah, so that's where all those 1x2 Dk Green plates on BL are going / coming from... A gorgeous set and a most definitive must-have for me. While I share the notion that it would have been nice to see what TLG could have come up with in terms of other airplanes, having a chance to own an improved "official" version of this one is really great. Let's just make sure it sells well enough to convince TLG to continue with more airplane models!

And now you have us all singing it as well! Chances are, it's going to remain stuck in my head for at least the next 24 hours. Tell me, are you happy!? Was that your evil plan? But seriously, hand me a baseball bat and let me do some dancing already. Oh, erm, yeah - and a great MOC too, by the way... How about adding some PF to it and making sure that it really does the peanut butter jelly!

I wanted to hear what other EB members would have to say on this matter before sharing my two cents and, generally, peterab and Steinkopf did sum up what I wanted to say just about perfectly. On the general subject of LEGO Trains and AFOLs (since that's the direction where this topic seems to be heading) - first off, And then most definitely, ... oh and of course, As to the particular question which started this discussion... In my case, Trains were a dream of mine while I was growing up as a kid seeing as motorized train toys were incredibly hard to come by during that time - in any kind or form, let alone as LEGO sets. Once I came out of my dark ages, just seeing the ATSF Super Chief and the BNSF GP-38 did trigger "buy" instantly, and I couldn't be happier about the fact that I now own these two. I was on the lookout for pretty much any old 9V train set (seeing as that was the era of my childhood), but after some deliberation I did narrow down my wishlist and ended up buying a decent amount of 9V rails and those two engines. The reason for that was the fact that I decided I wanted to focus on MOCcing my own trains, instead of building up a collection of old train sets, the appearance of which I wasn't too thrilled about anyway (too childish). The only exception is the Metroliner, which I might buy someday for sheer old times' sake and due to the fact that it's definitely become a legend. Other than that though, I tend to buy train 'parts' much more than train sets. That said, I still regret not having managed to get a hold of a Hobby Trains set while prices were still low. I would never pay the absurd second-hand-market prices it commands now though, so I guess I might as well forget about it. Same goes for the Holiday Train - although whereas I like the Hobby Trains set for its immense value as a source of inspiration and guidance for newbie train MOCcers such as myself, the Holiday Train was just a set I considered 'cute'. The Emerald Night and the Maersk Train are obviously a must-have for me; I'm planning on motorizing the former and finally buying the latter soon. Other than that though, I'm not considering getting any one of the 'regular' train sets currently on the market - most of all because I'm not happy with the variety of motorizing parts they offer (rechargeable battery please!), which to me greatly diminishes their value. Even though from a price per piece perspective, the yellow cargo train for example is a very good buy, I still don't find it tempting enough, especially considering the kind of train MOCs I have planned. So, in a nutshell, in my case, "Buy" can be triggered by one of two things: a) Sheer awesomeness, as displayed by the Emerald Night, Maersk Train, Santa Fe and BNSF. Obviously, that always comes with the "exclusivity" tag which in my books reads as "aimed at AFOLs". b) Usefulness of set contents. Hobby Trains is a prime example for this, even though it could also easily have been included in the former category. The TTX intermodal set also fits in well under this category. Unfortunately, b) is not really a factor on the market right now. If LEGO were to reintroduce the "My Own Train" line though, I imagine I'd spend quite some money on such sets.

And very much appreciated. As are all of Matt's great ideas. Asper, this is a brilliant simple solution which I must admit I really like. The plainness of it means that train cars wouldn't need to be cluttered with useless mechanisms, thus keeping the design basically unchanged. I definitely think I might implement that once I get around to building a proper train layout with an industrial segment. Great job and thanks for sharing!!

I never said you played anything wrong. Obviously, you played it perfectly, seeing as Town did win thanks to your guidance in the end! I did, however, provide the reasons for my actions and what I was referring to was the fact that you chose to share a bunch of PM's in the Day 1 thread - which in turn helped aim the spotlight in your direction. Either way, all water and beer under the Yakuza bridge now.

Thanks for the evaluation, badboy. Reading through your comments, I must admit that I once again found it surprising how much effort you seem to have put into doing what supposedly shouldn't have been done in the first place - i.e. allocating very specific roles to specific players - especially considering how you hardly gave us much of a story to begin with. And that's what I was a bit annoyed about in the beginning of the game, hence my roleplaying. Basically, the introduction to the whole game sounded like "So, there's 32 of you and well, some are goodies, others are baddies. This is coming from some old guy. Aaand that pretty much sums it all up, now get to business, the lot of you". Which, while obviously effective enough, does very little in terms of welcoming players to the whole setting/universe of the game. Apparently, we have different definitions of what a Mafia game should be and when it is fun for the participants, considering how people have on multiple occasions expressed being unhappy about roleplaying, etc., but at the end of the day I still feel that some actual form of storytelling, as opposed to just letting 32 people get to it, would have been nice. In fact, I had huge expectations with regards to that considering not only the amount of players you'd included and their funny biographies, but also the whole premise of the game. The lack thereof was a huge let-down to me, I must admit. The sheer awesomeness that was the Time Dragon did help make up for that though, as did the vigilante's kills (mega-cool job, Cornelius!). As to your other observations, I wasn't contributing for large periods simply because I wanted to become a target and be offed. When I saw that this was apparently not going to happen, I had to drop the act. And def - what you wanted (and what you shared your aims were) and what you then did were substantially different things from the off. That inconsistency, as I've already stated on numerous occasions, led to my pursued interest in your moves. Once I'd questioned your involvement in the initial stages, it would have taken a very different response from you if you had wanted to stay low-key, and I'm sure you could easily have done that, but you didn't. In the end, it's all about different playing styles, as you said, so I'm guessing you altered your game plan to whatever you felt would serve the purpose, so well done on that.

Well done Erdy! Moderating is good and all, just make sure you keep those spaghetti coming

I've been following this contest from the off and I must say I found the MOCs that you guys have come up with extremely impressive. Great job by all the Technic builders, and well done to Sieggy for hosting an awesome contest which was able to bring us non-Technic-guys a bit closer to your blue-pin-washed shores. Here's where my votes go: 2) The Harbour Tug - 2 votes 3) Water Jeep - 1 vote 4) Heavy-Lift Ship - 1 vote 13) Water Strider - 2 votes 14) Piper Super Club Float Plane - 1 vote

Perhaps Duq would be in a better position to answer that question... Duq - great idea, as usual! The lack of enough PF motors suggests that I won't be implementing it anytime soon, but that doesn't make it any less useful... I can totally imagine large-scale layouts using these PF switches!

The combo of one-piece trees plus one-hundred-piece trees works amazingly well. Beautifully done, I love that park and you can also add me to the long list of people who've been very much inspired by the gorgeous flora of your MOCs (i.e.: I'll also be stealing your cool ideas ).

I must admit I love seeing your MOCs in the Train Tech forums. For one, I really like electric / diesel engines and so to me this here is a thing of beauty. I can really imagine this one running alongside a Ge 4/4 II - besides, I'd love to see how you'd build one of those... An idea for future builds perhaps?

The whole contest was amazing. Here are the four MOCs I'd like to allocate my points to: 2) 3 votes - This one really embodies the Architecture line for me. Very original building techniques within a very small build. 13) 2 votes - A beautiful and very detailed recreation of the original building. 26) 1 vote - Very daring entry, rendering this kind of building style in bricks was never going to be easy, but I think the end effect is great. 38) 1 vote - Sheer beauty - besides, the small detailed touches are really brilliant.

Even if they were not, their legacy in terms of financial overburdening definitely was. What I generally meant was that LEGO was wasting money without actually considering what they're doing. K-nut mentioned wanting to have decently priced sets again; well yeah don't we all - but then again one just needs to look at what some of the big sets from the 90s era were actually selling for originally to get a good example of how little LEGO were actually aware what their productions costs really were. And yeah, as you said, once they lost their way with crappy new sets and themes and once their sales got significantly reduced, that almost ran them into the ground.