[HELP] Old Technic Education Sets

[jesse66058]

@DrJB

My friend started to laugh very hard when he saw the card, even he was surprised by it. He told me some pretty amazing stuff from the past.

About RoboLab,... Let's say the other black depths and a working serial i found by a trick

It is very dissapointing to find out that many links are broken. Some could have been very usefull such as: http://www.legoengin...51 (Interface B

Google Cache didn't helped either :(

Coming up i'm trying ControlLab on a different computer where it probably should work. I still don't understand how 9-15 year old could work with the interface, it's somehow pretty complex at first try.

Edited February 7, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

It is very dissapointing to find out that many links are broken. Some could have been very usefull such as: http://www.legoengin...51 (Interface B

Google Cache didn't helped either :(

The Internet hides many secrets, take a look

[jesse66058]

VMWare was not competible with the next computer and i found out VirtualBox has no built-in support for Parallel input. So that's nog going to work for today.

I got one step closer with RoboLab but it does not work fluent with Windows 7. I'm now stuck with sending commands to the interface. I literally did everything i could think of such as renaming ports in "Device Manager" aswell in Robolab but nothing worked. My program should be working as said in the help screen. What could it possibly be?

[jesse66058]

F*CK YEAH!

I finally got it working! So far it worked for 100% with Windows 7 64 and 32 bit! Some minor changes have been made to make it work. If requested by people i can test it also in Windows 8. If anybody needs help. I'm pleased to help you!

Well, let's continue on Interface A next week.

[DrJB]

Congratulations ... perseverance pays off in the long run.

Now, can you share some instructions on how you got it to work?

[jesse66058]

I hope TLC doesn't mind me publishing RoboLab here. I'm just here to help people.

*Instructions for using the Lego Dacta Interface B with newer OS's*

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These instructions are ment for LEGO 9751. They have been confirmed to work with Windows 7 (x86 and x64)

• To get your 9751 working you need RoboLab. The version has to be higher than 2.5.4 to support 9751. You can download a fully working copy here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9dun44rpbnd806x/ROBOLAB254_PC_CD.zip You can use it portable aswell installing it on your PC. If needed a serial code has been included.
  

-------------------------------------------

IMPORTANT NOTES:

* If you get when opening the software for first use an error message: fantom.dll is missing/not found, install the LEGO NXT USB Driver to solve this problem here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/64kamo22z114f13/NXT_USB_Driver_120.zip

* Some computers don't work well with RoboLab. You can solve this by right clicking the application -> properties -> compability and check: {disable visual theme's} {disable dekstop composition} and {run this program as administrator}

-------------------------------------------

• If you can run RoboLab you can close the program. Now we need to find and change our port to COM2. For some reason you can change it in RoboLab, but it still won't work. The standerd settings in the program we're using is LTI 1, which simply refers to COM2. Go to Start -> Control Panel -> Hardware and Sound -> Device Manager (right above). Search and open label: 'Ports (COM & LPT)'. Now you should able to see which number the port has 9751 is connected to. Right-click the correct Parallel Port -> Properties -> Port Settings. Check if these settings are right:
  

Bits per second: 9600

Data bits: 8

Parity: None

Stop bits: 1

Flow control: None

Then click 'Advanced'. Now we are able to change our COM port number. Change it to COM2. (When COM2 is in use, reboot computer and/or determine what uses the port and change it to another port number). Press 'OK' on all windows opened. I advise to reboot the computer to make sure the changes have been applied.

• Make sure 9751 is powered on and connected. Open RoboLab. Choose 'Programmer' then Inventor 4 and open a random pre-made program. From here you can choose to make your own program (File -> New VI) or you could open an earlier made program. I wrote a simple example you can download here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s99xmgcwof14r3/Testprogram%209751.vi?m=(Open it with File -> Open)
  

-------------------------------------------

IMPORTANT NOTES:

* When there are no tools to use when making your own program, you can open them with: Windows -> Show Controls Palette and Show Tools Palette.

* ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING IS TO BEGIN AND USE YOUR PROGRAM WITH THE RIGHT ICON!!!! In the Function Palette choose 'Control Lab Interface' (below) Your program you're writing is made in a different manner than for NXT and RCX. To find examples and instructions to make specific programs, click Help -> Show Context Help. Place your mouse on the icon you want to now more about. You can click in the Help windows for even more help. Here you can find instructions to use each symbol. Make sure you wrote your program in the 9751 way!

-------------------------------------------

Happy Programming!

* Shoutout to Azzeppa for finding the lost archives of the 9751!

* 3-3-2014 Updated links

Edited March 3, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

* Shoutout to Azzeppa for finding the lost archives of the 9751!

Glad to have been able to help!

I'm going to see if I can get hold of one of my schools 9751s and test it out at home with this, I'll let you know if I'm successful, intrigued as to how useful it is seeing it has 8 inputs and outputs

[jesse66058]

Glad to have been able to help!

I'm going to see if I can get hold of one of my schools 9751s and test it out at home with this, I'll let you know if I'm successful, intrigued as to how useful it is seeing it has 8 inputs and outputs

Amazing! I'm very curious to others experiences and ideas!

I just did some tests with the rotationsensors. When programmed right, the biggest precision i could get from it was a tolerance of just 22.5 degrees!(I did 9 tests for good accuracy of the test) It just blew my mind. I only have no idea how i could print images with RoboLab. I saw PriNXT but i have to research that some more.

Keep the amazing stuff going people!

Edited February 9, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

Amazing! I'm very curious to others experiences and ideas!

I just did some test with the rotationsensors. When programmed right, the biggest precision i could get from it was an tolerance of just 22.5 degrees!(I did 9 tests for good accuracy of the test) It just blew my mind. I only have no idea how i could print images with RoboLab. I saw PriNXT but i have to research that some more.

Keep the amazing stuff going people!

Interesting article on PriNXT here, good read. Might have a stab at something myself, I can see it potentially being possible with more than just printing monochrome images. A recreation might still be a fun exercise.

[jesse66058]

Update:

After i got Interface B working, there will be going 2 interfaces available for a dutch school as support of their technic education. There were 4 boxes, but only 3 9751. Still i can't complain :D

For now the computer department is still searching for computers for educational purposes with a RS-232 port since new computers don't have them anymore and an available DOS computer. After that i'll be taking care to make 2 9751 work with the computers. The course with Interface B should be understandable for 12-13 yo. There is in the yearlessons a period where they teach automation, the idea was for the extra enthusiast kids to work with 9751 as extra next to their own lessons. Possibly i'll make an own topic about that later with more information.

I'm still paining my head about interface A, i've found about 5-7 total! If i find atleast one DOS computer, then what? I still need to find the diskettes :(

Forgot to ask a question: Some sets are equipped with a 'look-a-like' white spring, which functions has it since no axle could pass through it?

Edited February 11, 2014 by jesse66058

[jesse66058]

Update:

I had no time searching further to the diskettes at school with Lego Lines. Also i can't find them anywhere on BrickLink. Isn't that weird?

But (!), i do have 7 DOS laptops sponsered by a company. The only problem is they don't have a slot for the card. Is there a 'docking' or 'adapter' so i can connect the lego card to a parrallel port somehow? If somebody can tell me the name of the type slot i may search a solution my own. =P

[legolijntje]

Isn't that some kind of PCI Slot?

[Meisseli]

I would guess that it's 8-bit ISA slot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_Standard_Architecture

[DrJB]

+1 - Definitely an ISA slot.

[DrJB]

Still have not been able to run InterfaceB ... :(

I think I know what the issue is though. The Robolab software (default installation) seems to want to talk to an RCX via a serial tower, not InterfaceB. Thus the question: How do you 'force/configure' Robolab to 'expect' interface B at the end of the serial port ... and not an IR serial tower?

Edited March 3, 2014 by DrJB

[jesse66058]

Still have not been able to run InterfaceB ... :(

I think I know what the issue is though. The Robolab software (default installation) seems to want to talk to an RCX via a serial tower, not InterfaceB. Thus the question: How do you 'force/configure' Robolab to 'expect' interface B at the end of the serial port ... and not an IR serial tower?

I can't make a specific picture toturial at the moment because my laptop got fried in public transport. (yes, fried) Maybe i can make one soon on a different computer :P

Have you tried my example program i wrote? https://www.dropbox....program 9751.vi

As said before, program your Interface B in the proper language in Robolab! You can see the difference in the example program. If it still not works, i'm here to help you.

Edit: Downloadlinks were broken, now all fixed.

Edited March 3, 2014 by jesse66058

[DrJB]

Thank you Jesse, I'll try it tonight and get back to you. Appreciate all the help.

Edited March 3, 2014 by DrJB

[DrJB]

Was put on a business trip ... now back and was able to try your program. I get the following error message:

PROGRAMMING ERROR: You cannot use text mode or autodetect with the CLI. (task 1)

Edited March 6, 2014 by DrJB

[jesse66058]

Hello DrJB,

Sorry for the late respons. When you open RoboLab, go to 'Administrator' -> 'Select COM Port' make sure neither text mode or autodetect is selected. Choose COM2. This should fix it.

Edited March 7, 2014 by jesse66058

[DrJB]

Been traveling for few days. Tried the above but did not work. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my box, the serial cable, or even the COM port. Got a new box from eBay and will try it again when it arrives (in few days). For now, I'll give this a rest. I also tried the simple InterfaceB by Tom @ lgauge and it works i.e., I can send commands to the interface via the com port, to motors and lights.Could not get the various motors/lights (attached to outputs) to respond when I click on various commands ...

Edited March 15, 2014 by DrJB

[DrJB]

ok, I figured what the issue was. I initially had a serial cable, but Interface B requires a null modem cable. Got it now working, but still, when I try to run, it complains that there is no USB tower for the RCX ... It is somehow defaulting to the RCX, how can I make it talk to Interface B instead?

Edited March 15, 2014 by DrJB

[LegoPanda]

you are so lucky, on my school they also have a lot of lego that is just gathering dust in a closet, i find i kinda painful to look at, also lots of 4,5V stuff, some NXT and RCX and lots of rare technic parts

[DrJB]

Nothing works like perseverance ... I made some progress, got InterfaceB to work with 2× 3rd party apps. So, the serial/USB connection seems robust. Also found some info online on how to enable control of the Dacta Box (and not the RCX). Will post more once I get everything working. Some might think this is an obsolete product, but in my opinion, it's the single box that provides 8 sensors (inputs) and 8 outputs (motors, lights, ...). This is double what the EV3 can do ...

Edited March 20, 2014 by DrJB

[jesse66058]

Hello DrJB,

From what i can hear is that you are programming wrong. The way RoboLab interacts depends on how you program. Read this.

Keep me updated!

Edited March 20, 2014 by jesse66058

[DrJB]

At last ... got it to work!!! .. what a beauty this package is.

Thanks for all the help Jesse ... now I need to build some interesting contraption ...